Savage Rifles


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Sulaco
January 21, 2004, 06:58 PM
I am soon going to be in the market for a tactical/sniper style rifle (heavy barrel contour, etc.) that will pull double duty for Whitetail deer hunting. I like the lighter weight variants.

I want a .308 and have been looking at the Savage lineup. Specifically, their Law Enforcement series. Does anyone have any experience with these rifles or with Savage in general?

I have always heard mixed reviews when it comes to Savage's "out of box" accuracy and overall quality. I really like the new trigger design, though and have been hearing more and more good things about them recently.

My only other option that I have researched is a Remington LTR.

I am looking at the Savage 10FP-LE1. I like it because it has a 20" barrel and the price is much lower than Remington.

Thanks.

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admar2
January 21, 2004, 07:06 PM
I'm getting ready to plunk down some money on a Savage 10FP-LE2B.

the one with the McMillan stock.


figure I'll buy the rifle now and by spring have the money for some good glass..

Sulaco
January 21, 2004, 07:25 PM
Yeah, I know what scope I am going for and I want to try and save on the rifle if I can. The Savage is so much less than the Remington. I am probably going to get a Zeiss Conquest scope. I have seen them for less than 400 bucks.

Mulliga
January 21, 2004, 07:47 PM
I'm thinking of a Savage, too. Made in America, cheap, seems to be pretty good quality...can Savage owners confirm this?

Sisco
January 21, 2004, 07:50 PM
I have one, it's a model 111 in 25.06, no heavy barrel, no McMillian stock but it will shoot under 1/2" at 100 yards with my handloads.
Box stock except I adjusted the trigger to about 3lbs.

Sulaco
January 21, 2004, 07:58 PM
How do you like the 25-06? I hear a lot of good things about it and know someone who swears by it for Whitetail.

They say it is very accurate (flat shooting) and good for long range stuff. How long do barrels last in this chambering?

ocabj
January 21, 2004, 08:16 PM
The Savage with Accutrigger is a great gun. The LE2B version is the best buy. It comes with the McMillan A2, iirc, at only about $750 give or take. If you go with the LE2 with the cheapie stock, you will definitely want to upgrade the stock. It is not suitable for serious shooting. It works in the sense that the rifle shoots, but that's about it. The main options for stocks are Bell & Carlson, Sharpshooter Supply (http://www.savageshooters.com/sharpshooters/), and McMillan.

I bought the 10FP-LE2 myself, and first replaced the stock with a Bell & Carlson and now have the McMillan A-5.

Make sure you get bases for the new Accutrigger models because the top of the rear receiver is round and not flat like the non-Accutrigger models.

Badger Ordnance, Ken Farrell, and Warne makes solid 1-piece bases for the Savage (both old and new designs). I went with the Ken Farrell base and Burris Signature Zee rings myself. I'll probably go Badger base and rings when I get my next Savage near the end of the year

Sulaco
January 21, 2004, 08:52 PM
Well, I was hoping to cheap out on the stock for now and maybe upgrade later on. The only McMillan stock I like is the M1A and I definitely don't want that prone type grip that comes on the LE2B for deer hunting. If I went with a gun that costs that much, I would just get the LTR. The PSS and the LE2B are too long for what I want.

ocabj
January 21, 2004, 09:01 PM
Ah, gotcha. Didn't notice you wanted the 20" stick.

As far as the McMillan M1A, isn't that stock only for M1A/M14s?

Or where you referring to the A-1 aka M40A-1 aka HTG? That is a solid stock by the way.

Sulaco
January 21, 2004, 09:05 PM
What I meant was the only McMillan stock I like the feel of is the M1A. I am not partial to the prone style straight gripped stocks.

ocabj
January 21, 2004, 09:26 PM
Try out the HTG aka M40A-1. It uses a traditional style stock without a vertical grip. I had one priced out before I decided on the A-5. It's a shade under $400 fully inletted, sling studed, recoil pad, etc.

Check out the Sharpshooter Stocks (http://www.savageshooters.com/sharpshooters/CustomStocks.html) as well. They run for about $250 and lots of Savage shooters like them.

Good luck and good shooting. I'm sure you will be happy with the Savage.

Sisco
January 21, 2004, 09:38 PM
Sulaco
I've shot two mule deer with the 25.06, both at about 100 yards. The only direction they moved was straight down.
I've never shot groups at any distance further than 100 yards. With the gun sighted in 3" high at 100yds, hitting a 12" diameter steel gong at 300 is a matter of holding the crosshairs near the top of the target. I'd guess that's pretty flat.
I don't shoot it enough to worry about barrel erosion

cookhj
January 21, 2004, 09:41 PM
since this is a post about savage rifle, i will give y'all a heads up about it first! i have a LEFT HANDED savage model 112 in .300 win mag that i will be putting in the For Sale threads sometime later tonite. so, if anyone wants to get a jump on this now, shoot me a PM.

hksw
January 21, 2004, 10:34 PM
The LE2B comes with the A-3.

Bought one a few months ago, still waiting to put a scope on it (funds deverted to other projects). Overall, I like the AccuTrigger, particularly its ease of adjustment. Only minor complaint is the Glock like feel to the center blade.

Sulaco
January 21, 2004, 10:43 PM
oooohhhhh I love me Glocks! :D

redneck
January 21, 2004, 11:15 PM
I got to shoot a friends 112FV in .223 awhile back. I was impressed. The bolt is smooth as glass and the trigger is amazing. Its got a different feel to it, but the pull is so light and it breaks so clean, absolutely nothing to complain about with the trigger.
The stock, was nice enough for my purposes. Its a little flimsy up around the barrel, which kind of cuts down on the effect of it being freefloated. As far as I'm concerned if your consistent with how you hold it, you'll have to do lots of work on your marksmanship before you worry about the stock holding you back.
Its an easy gun to shoot. The guy that owns it has never been too serious about shooting, although he does have some experience with guns. Last I shot with him he OWNED stuff out to 100 yards, and probably farther but we didn't put targets out beyond that.

At this point I can't see myself spending much extra money to get something ther than a savage.

Detritus
January 22, 2004, 01:28 AM
great guns, right now the ONLY complaint i have about them is that POS flimsy stock. i owned one for a number of years (sold to pay med bills) that had the factory stock and i did OK with it. but now, after i've seen what even a Bell & Carlson, or Sharpshooter stock is like, i couldn't stand to have that whippy thing for more than the few months it would take to save up for a replacement.

Buy the savage, they fixed most of their problems years ago. you'll find that there are two constants about ANY gun manufacturer,
1. there's always a few that get past the QC people, regardless of cost of the gun
2. there are ALWAYS going to be folks out there that bad mouth whatever THEY don't have, esp if it's possible they over paid to get a product that was of no greater, or even inferior quality.....

those two factors account for the majority of the savage-basjing i have seen on-line and in stores.

i think you can't go wrong with one, just be aware of and prepared to deal with the fact that the factory synth stock SUCKS.

Sisco
January 22, 2004, 09:07 AM
Good point about the stock, they are rather flimsy at the front. Butt ugly too unless you do something about it.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=199792

cliff355
January 22, 2004, 09:23 AM
Sulaco:

I don't think you can go wrong with a Savage. I have a 116 in 30/06 and it is a super gun. Accuracy is equal or better than any Remington or Winchester I have shot next to.

Though I haven't tried one, it is my understanding that you can get other barrels for them and change them in the field with the proper wrench. Apparently the barrels are screwed in hand-tight and then locked down by that big nut in front of the receiver. So, if you got a 308 you could switch to any other caliber of a similar OAL. If the cartridge had a different size case head, you could still convert by switching bolt faces (it has a 3-piece bolt).

Sulaco
January 22, 2004, 10:38 AM
cliff355, now that is very interesting. I would love to have a gun that could do more than one caliber. What all do you think I could get out of one setup for .308?

Sisco, that's a great looking gun. What stock is that? I really like the grip profile and the comb in the buttstock.

cliff355
January 22, 2004, 11:12 AM
Sulaco:

I'm not positive what the lengths of all the various rounds are, but if you check out www.midwayusa.com and search on "Savage" they have a whole bunch of barrels listed. Anything based on the .308 or about that length would probably work (.243, etc). I haven't tried any of them and therefore can't vouch for how easy it is to switch them out, but I remember reading an artical where a guy switched them out in the woods with his wrench.

Onslaught
January 22, 2004, 11:13 AM
Midway USA (http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/browse?TabID=4&CategoryID=8370&CategoryString=649+***+661+***+9564+***) has what they call the "Rebarrel your Savage" kit that runs less than $200. It comes with a barrel, Savage barrel wrench, and a headspace gauge for the specific caliber. All you'd need is another headspace gauge in the original caliber and you're good to go.

I've never heard anyone badmouth Savage accuracy, only trigger and stock. In fact most times, the badmouthing would include "yes they're accurate, but the ......"
My personal experience with the Accutrigger was very positive, and the accuracy was excellent.

Good luck

000Buck
January 22, 2004, 11:50 AM
I have an 10FP-LE1, exactly what you are looking at. I am completely happy with it, it shoots under 1 MOA even with me, and the stock isnt that bad, esp for the price, you just need to put some loctite on the bolts that hold it to the receiver. The accutrigger is great.

cordex
January 22, 2004, 12:02 PM
Allow me to put in another good word for the Savage line.
Make sure you get bases for the new Accutrigger models because the top of the rear receiver is round and not flat like the non-Accutrigger models.
Yep. Found that out the hard way.
Anyone looking for a good, unused Leopold (I think ... I'd have to dig it out) scope base and matching rings for a non-accutrigger Savage 10FP should drop me a PM or email.

Sisco
January 22, 2004, 12:07 PM
Sulaco - that's the factory stock. I sanded down the mold lines and sprayed it with Fleckstone paint. Took it to an auto body shop first and had it sprayed with a self-etching primer.

000Buck
January 22, 2004, 12:13 PM
Holy macarol Cordex! I have the same spare Leupold one piece base sitting around collecting dust!! I wound up going with Burris mounts, the only ones I could find that fit!!!!!

dadman
January 22, 2004, 09:41 PM
After free floating the barrel, the Savage stock can be stiffened in the front. Notch out the stiffening ribs, place a pushrod inro the notches and below the upper level of the ribs(or use something similiar, like an arrow shaft), then fill the rib voids and cover the rod with JB Weld.
Bed the receiver and recoil lug/tab.
Works fine, lasts a long time.

Sulaco
January 22, 2004, 09:44 PM
Why does how stiff the front of the stock is matter? If the barrel is free-floated, it shouldn't matter, right? I am just asking because it sounds like the stock is so flimsy that it actually contacts the barrel or something?

Sisco
January 22, 2004, 11:20 PM
sounds like the stock is so flimsy that it actually contacts the barrel
Off the bech or other support it's no big deal. If you shoot with a sling (I do when hunting) the front tip of the stock can be pulled over enough by the sling to touch the barrel.

cslinger
January 22, 2004, 11:30 PM
I have a 10FP in .308 with a Choate Varmint Stock on it. It is the older model without the accutrigger.

I have been able to pull off a .50 inch three shot group with a Burris 3-9 scope and a cheap bi-pod at 100 yards and I suck.

I need to practice more to get consistent as I am the big limiting factor of the gun. I love my Savage. I have since changed the bi-pod to a nice Harris which should give me a much steadier hold.

Chris

Detritus
January 23, 2004, 12:16 AM
sounds like the stock is so flimsy that it actually contacts the barrel or something

some times it does. it does pretty well off bags on a bench, but even then there can be some inadvertent canting going on b.c of that stock. off a Bi-pod sheesh!! i found out that putting a scope with a built in level, on a factory stocked savage 110FP was to say the least "distracting" that D@mned bubble was all over the place from simple things like a slight change in how i was griping the wrist of the stock!

now granted i still got very good groups out of it i think that just under half inch at 100 was about average just prior to me moving and having to put it in stoarage then selling it for med bill money.
But considering the potential of the rifle, i simply wonder how well it would have done had i put a better stock on it. and when i replace the one i sold i'll do just that, get a better stock, i may even break down and get a micmillan stocked one, but i don't know.

ocabj
January 23, 2004, 02:25 AM
Why does how stiff the front of the stock is matter? If the barrel is free-floated, it shouldn't matter, right? I am just asking because it sounds like the stock is so flimsy that it actually contacts the barrel or something?

If you grip the barrel and foregrip with one hand, you will be able to make the barrel make contact with the stock with very little pressure. This is why I was discussing aftermarket stocks so much in my original reply.

The barrel is free floated in the factory cheapie stock. Resting the foregrip of the stock on sand bags shouldn't make the barrel touch the stock, but certain pressures and torque on the stock can cause barrel to stock contact.

That said, people still have had perfectly fine performance with the synthetic factory stock (non Choate/McMillan model).

As far as the caliber conversion, I forgot to mention that. Midway does sell kits, but Sharpshooter Supply (which I linked in my previous reply) also sells the necessary drop in barrels and Savage parts necessary for conversions. Sharpshooter Supply strictly deals in Savage rifle parts (factory and aftermarket) and have a solid reputation with hunters and varminters.
Savage Shooters (http://www.savageshooters.com) has an article on Savage barrel swaps (http://www.savageshooters.com/Articles/BarrelSwap.html) with pictures.

Here's a couple pictures of my Savage (McMillan A-5, Ken Farrell base, Burris Signature rings, Bushnell Elite 3200 10x Mildot):

http://ocabj.ucr.edu/images/a5_1.jpg

http://ocabj.ucr.edu/images/a5_2.jpg

dadman
January 23, 2004, 12:02 PM
Why does how stiff the front of the stock is matter? If the barrel is free-floated, it shouldn't matter, right? I am just asking because it sounds like the stock is so flimsy that it actually contacts the barrel or something?
Before freefloating the Savage stock, the forend flex wasn't really appearent due to the stock contact with the barrel.
After freefloat, the flimsiness was obvious.
If your budget doesn't allow an upgrade to a better stock, the previous mentioned chepo stiffening method does just fine. I compared my modified stock to Winchester and Remington 'tactical' rifles which had synthetic stocks and aluminum bedding blocks. Rem, Win, and modified Savage stock all had slight forend flex.
The freefloat takes out a varible that could affect the shot.
The stiff forend is needed to insure the stock doesn't touch the barrel. The unmodded, but freefloated, Savage stock would touch the barrel when using a bi-pod and rifle moved slightly side-to-side to change point-of-aim. Same thing was observed using different shooting positions, and off a rest or bag.
Rifle that was modified was an earlier 110FP .308, done some years ago.

yzguy
January 23, 2004, 01:22 PM
love my FP10 in .308!! :)

I did not like the stock either, it moved to much and to easy for me (but I'm sure would kinda work). I put on a Choate ultimate sniper stock, and LOVE it (but this stock would not be my choice for hunting).

I wonder if Savage would ever sell just a barreled receiver (no stock)?? maybe even knock a few more bucks off!!

ocabj
January 23, 2004, 01:56 PM
I wonder if Savage would ever sell just a barreled receiver (no stock)?? maybe even knock a few more bucks off!!

If they did that, they may even charge you more. :D

Seriously though, I don't think the generic synthetic stock costs Savage more than a dollar to make or have made.

Sulaco
January 23, 2004, 06:57 PM
I wish I could just find an aftermarket, affordable stock for the 10FP-LE1 that is as much like the Remngton BDL stock as possible. The BDL synthetic stock is my favorite rifle stock by far. It just fits me really well and works great for hunting and bench rest (for me anyway).

Detritus
January 23, 2004, 08:22 PM
I wish I could just find an aftermarket, affordable stock for the 10FP-LE1 that is as much like the Remngton BDL stock as possible. The BDL synthetic stock is my favorite rifle stock by far. It just fits me really well....

don't know EXACTLY how similar they are but you might want to look into the Stockade "Mule Deer" stock Found here (http://www.lockstock.com/cart/webcart.cgi?ZOOMPAGE=YES&TOPPAGE=/products/zoomtop.txt&OCATS=Stockade+Mule+Deer+Stock,+Painted&ZN=TEXT&CODE=1873838&ITEM=14789) . I also don't know what price level you consider "affordable" and if you want wood instead of synthetic (since i've never seen a Synth BDL). but if it's the size adn type fo stock then this one might work. also the above link takes you to the pre-painted version they also sell ready to paint and "moneysaver" (ie YOU "fill prime and paint") versions.

just thought i'd at least offer the info:)

454c
January 24, 2004, 02:16 AM
I was reading a gun magazine recently and ran across an article where they was talking with a barrel maker out west.Thet asked him which company made the best barrels for their production guns right out of the box.His answer.SAVAGE.

Sunray
January 24, 2004, 02:25 AM
"...mixed reviews when it comes to Savage's "out of box" accuracy..." That surprises me. Savage rifles are well known as being the absolute best bang for your buck.

BamBam-31
January 24, 2004, 03:53 AM
I've got the 10FP in .223 w/ a B&C stock and Grand Slam. VERY accurate, smooth bolt, nice Accu-trigger, and CHEAP!

After letting one of my buddies try it out, he bought the exact same setup.

Tough to justify the extra $$$ for a Rem-chester (tho' they're nice, too). The Savage is a best buy, definitely.

tbige
January 24, 2004, 08:16 AM
Sulaco:

Have to agree with Onslaught -- never heard "mixed reviews" about accuracy. More than ANY other make (Tikka being a close second), it gets the consistent high marks for accuracy. My 116 kit gun in .223, with better scope and $25 trigger job, always shoots between 1/4 and 1/2 inch 3-shot groups. Mine obviously didn't have the new accu-trigger. Agree stocks aren't worldbeaters, but I also think synthetic stocks are almost universally ugly am not interested -- with down to 1/4 inch groupings -- in a better ugly stock. Composite's a different story.

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