S&W 686 Replacing MIM parts


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Shienhausser
August 5, 2011, 02:30 PM
I have a new 686-6 that I purchased (yeah i know should have bought an older one blah blah, there's something special about the gun only ever being yours ie. new) and I was wondering if you could replace at least the trigger with a non-mim part from an older 686. I know the hammer would be a no because of the design.

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357 Terms
August 5, 2011, 04:02 PM
Don't listen to all the internet babble, MIM is not a big deal, your trigger will be just fine.

buck460XVR
August 5, 2011, 04:09 PM
Don't listen to all the internet babble, MIM is not a big deal, your trigger will be just fine.

^^^...this. Your gun is warranted for life. MIM parts show no more of a failure rate than non-MIM parts. Have the trigger slicked up a little maybe if your are too impatient to slick it up yourself by shooting/dryfiring, but why waste money needlessly?

wlewisiii
August 5, 2011, 04:32 PM
+1 to what both of these folks have said.

COK
August 5, 2011, 05:56 PM
Enjoy your new firearm .

Walkalong
August 5, 2011, 05:59 PM
My 696 has a MIM trigger, and I am unconcerned. The action is real nice in SA & DA. I like it a great deal. But hey, it's yours, so do what you wish. I do not know if the older triggers will swap out. Good luck.

DenaliPark
August 5, 2011, 07:59 PM
I have a new 686-6 that I purchased (yeah i know should have bought an older one blah blah, there's something special about the gun only ever being yours ie. new) and I was wondering if you could replace at least the trigger with a non-mim part from an older 686. I know the hammer would be a no because of the design.
There is not a thing needing replacement on your 686-6 revolver, not a thing!

Shienhausser
August 5, 2011, 08:38 PM
That's kind of what I thought, thanks guys!

I love this pistol ALOT. So much so that I may be buying another (4") by the weekends end haha. Although a 6" 586 would make a col brother for it.

psyshack
August 5, 2011, 11:32 PM
Enjoy your Smith. Tune it to be yours. Yeah MIM can pull at your heart. But guess what! MIM wil take to the stones and springs well. And I don't care what folks say. You can not make a Ruger trigger into a simple Smith without spending more than it's worth. Nor can you make a Smith or Ruger lock up like a Colt. There is always a price to be paid.

A GP100 or 6 will give you a good trigger over all and solid forcing cone to face. A Smith will over all give you a better trigger out of the box. And choose your X86 right and you could get a fantastic cylinder face to cone machine and a crane to die for. But the lock up wont be so called Colt lock up. Get the Colt and if it's right you have the bank vault lock up and a match rod lock up. Something else even a new Smith will give you if right is near match if not match grade lock up. A proper set up colt will give you match grade rod. I've never seen a GP100 out of the case take a match rod. And yes when I have cash in pocket,,, I have my rods in a pocket also. :)

Friendly, Don't Fire!
August 5, 2011, 11:53 PM
The 686 is a fine weapon. I kick myself for getting rid of my 6" about 20 years ago. That was a really good, accurate-shooting gun!

Old Fuff
August 6, 2011, 12:38 AM
I don't know that I'd change the trigger either, as it's a bridge I haven't come to.

But the question was, can you change the trigger?

The answer is, "yes you can, provided you switch a complete trigger assembly, including the hand - along with the rebound slide and spring. Should anyone go in this direction, be aware that K and L frame revolvers use the same trigger, but different hammers.

ArchAngelCD
August 6, 2011, 01:34 AM
The funny thing is, everyone hates the MIM parts on S&W revolvers but Ruger is basically a gun entirely made of MIM parts, frame and all. Metal Injection molding is very close to Investment Casting used by Ruger to manufacture their whole gun. (to my way of thinking anyway)

Old Fuff
August 6, 2011, 10:18 AM
No, the two processes are entirely different. In the case of Ruger's investment castings the steel is melted and then poured into a mold. The resulting part is 100% steel. An MIM (metal injected molded) part is made up of metal partials that are fused together. The particles however are never melted, and the part is never 100% of the base material. Close, but somewhere in the upper 90% range.

Walking Dead
August 6, 2011, 11:01 AM
Here we go again.

Old Fuff
August 6, 2011, 11:40 AM
Here we go again.

Nope.... At least on my part.

I can, and do, live with MIM lockwork in several Taurus revolvers, but if given the option I would prefer 100% steel lockwork. With it I know exactly what to expect because it has a long history. MIM parts have yet to do this, and I worry about knife edges and corners breaking down over time.

You can make extreme modifications on steel parts that can be welded, but don't try it on anything made using MIM technology. Of course very few people do things like that.

The supposed advantage of CNC machined parts and MIM lockwork is that tolerances can be held so close that a trained monkey can put guns together, and therefore eliminate the need for highly skilled (and expensive) final assemblers. Apparently it has also reduced the need for frequent inspections as well. From the manufacturer's point of view all of this relates to important cost savings. I can see and understand where they are coming from, but forgive the poor Ol' Fuff for thinking all of this necessarily results in a better product. :uhoh:

Guillermo
August 6, 2011, 04:28 PM
Old Fuff!!

How many times do I have to admonish you!!!

Let them buy the crap so that we can acquire the good stuff!!!

We need LESS competition for the diminishing resource...not more!!!

Quit clouding the issue with facts!!!

JellyJar
August 6, 2011, 04:32 PM
Old Fluff...Can you replace the hammer as well and all the other MIM parts too?

Old Fuff
August 6, 2011, 05:09 PM
Quit clouding the issue with facts!!!

I know, but I can't help myself. Once a blabbermouth, always a blabbermouth.

But on the other hand MIM parts are becoming so mainstream that I doubt anybody pays any attention to my confused rants... :confused:

It isn't that MIM parts won't work, as much as concern about how long they will, and that's something only time will tell. By the time the answers are known for sure I won't likely be around to care. However I always have the option of betting on a well-proven sure thing. ;)

Old Fuff
August 6, 2011, 05:20 PM
Can you replace the hammer as well and all the other MIM parts too?

I haven't tried, but I don't think so. With the exception of hammers made for rimfire revolvers the older hammers have hammer mounted firing pins, and are higher at the top. Hammers made for the J-Frame "inclosed hammer" models might work if the internal lock was removed, but not otherwise.

A complete exchange of all the internal lockwork would get expensive, so I'd expect it would be more cost effective to buy an older revolver in the first place.

Unfortunately there is no such thing as a free lunch. :(

Guillermo
August 6, 2011, 05:24 PM
It isn't that MIM parts won't work

Of course not...in some ways they are better.

And in many ways they are not.

918v
August 7, 2011, 12:22 PM
Interesting how people rationalize quality away. Pretty soon we'll have people worshiping zinc.

Guillermo
August 7, 2011, 12:31 PM
Pretty soon we'll have people worshiping zinc

LOL

918v
August 7, 2011, 01:16 PM
I mean really S&W could make a zinc hammer containing a lead insert for weight and maybe a steel plate epoxied to the striking surface where it impacts the firing pin. It might even be cheaper than MIM. They could make an additional 50 cents on each gun.

Guillermo
August 7, 2011, 01:21 PM
They could make an additional 50 cents on each gun

The MIM part itself is expensive...they save money on labor. I would expect that the part that you describe would have to be made in China due to labor costs.

918v
August 7, 2011, 01:27 PM
Nah, HiPoint could make it for them. A piece of lead sandwiched between two zinc plates... quite simple.

918v
August 7, 2011, 01:29 PM
And the Perforamnce Center version could have MIM parts.

Maybe, for $3000 a piece, S&W could make a limited run of gun with an investment cast lockwork.

Guillermo
August 7, 2011, 01:37 PM
S&W could make a limited run of gun with an investment cast lockwork

LOL!!!

357 Terms
August 7, 2011, 09:46 PM
Ughhhh! we are talking about MIM; in the limited usage in these applications, they are just fine, no big deal. They may seem cheaper looking but they are just as capable when used correctly. GET USE TO IT! its not going away!

918v
August 7, 2011, 10:11 PM
MIM is for sodomites.

Guillermo
August 7, 2011, 10:14 PM
MIM is for sodomites

wow

918v
August 7, 2011, 11:04 PM
wow

What?

That is exactly what S&W thinks of their customers. They took 150 years of craftsmanship and threw it in the toilet.

Guillermo
August 7, 2011, 11:28 PM
They took 150 years of craftsmanship and threw it in the toilet

I am not disagreeing.

But I do think that there is some good that comes from the "new Smith".

A- there is less competition for the good old guns
B- the IL allows for Darwinism
C- if S&W can sell Taurus' for Smith prices...more power to them

918v
August 7, 2011, 11:38 PM
You have a point.

Joe Mamma
August 8, 2011, 08:45 PM
I have broken MIM parts on a S&W revolver TWICE.

I broke the hammer block (a MIM part) on a J-frame. S&W sent me another one which was also MIM. I broke that part too. S&W sent me another one, which was not MIM. So far, it has not broken. I now also keep a non-MIM hammer block as a spare.

FYI, the gun was purchased new. It has never been dropped, hit, etc. But the gun has been shot a lot (although that should not matter in theory).

I don't fear guns with MIM parts (althought maybe I should!). But I disagree with people who say MIM parts are fine or people who worry about them breaking are paranoid.

Joe Mamma

psyshack
August 8, 2011, 09:13 PM
Joe the hammer block in my wifes 60 Pro is mild steel as is the hammer block in my 686P.

Any pics of your broken MIM hammer block. I would like to see them.

I have broken one MIM part. The extractor let go in my Sigma. At 5k rounds, most of them +P or +P+ reloads. I take the blame. I shot the pistol very hard. And still do! Smith would have replaced the extractor for me. But would not send me one. So I bought one at NUMBRCH, installed it and moved on. At 10k rounds it's still in the game.

New and old extractor:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/638/medium/S7300430.JPG

New extractor installed:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/638/medium/S7300489.JPG

I would like to see pics of your broken MIM.

Shienhausser
August 8, 2011, 10:21 PM
All I can say after buying an older Smith with steel parts as my other m66 thread talked about, I am enamored by the feel of quality and confidence of that piece.

I picked up my 686-6 afterward and felt well......... cheated. Regardless of reliability MIM just doesn't feel right and I will probably try to trade my 686 for another 686 pre MIM.

Joe Mamma
August 9, 2011, 12:04 AM
Any pics of your broken MIM hammer block. I would like to see them.


Sure, I will try to post pics of all three (the 2 broken ones and the spare) in the next day or so.

Joe Mamma

Joe Mamma
August 10, 2011, 04:43 PM
Here are pictures of the 2 broken MIM hammer blocks, and the spare/unused non-MIM part.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/ormd/Smith%20Wesson/IMG_4377.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/ormd/Smith%20Wesson/IMG_4376.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff297/ormd/Smith%20Wesson/IMG_4378.jpg

Joe Mamma

earplug
August 10, 2011, 09:01 PM
I prefer the thinner trigger on my DA only revolvers. How ever many enjoy a wide trigger for SA use.
I like to swap out the wider MIM triggers and grind and smooth a narrow forged trigger to a nice rounded surface for my finger.
Most of the time they drop in without issue.

edwin41
August 12, 2011, 07:14 PM
hello
when i was shopping around for a handgun for targetshooting ( my first ) i knew it had to be a smith & wesson , and i wanted a new one .
i was kindda charmed by the 686 ssr model.
took a closer look and realised it was not all that.
in my opinion a revolver has to have the firingpin on the hammer and not in the frame.
i dont want no mim parts , not because they are worse or better , but it is just not the
classic way of doing things . ( not to mention the hiddeos lock on the side ).
call me old fashioned if you will , but i like things to be simple and rugged .
i settled for the 686 - 3 , and wouldnt trade it for a newer one.
just my thoughts.

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