New Ruger New Vaquero 45 Colt not even CLOSE!!!


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petrey10
August 5, 2011, 02:42 PM
Just wondering what some causes could be as to why my brand new Ruger New Vaquero is about a FOOT off from 15 yards.... WAY WAY WAY HIGH!!!

I have tried factory loads and reloads..... HIGH HIGH HIGH

Currently I am shooting a 250 gr LRNFP over 7.8gr of unique... the bullets are MB Cowboy #1's....

I have let another shooter shoot it and its the same result....


We can stand about 10 feet from the target, aim at the bulleye, and still barely make it less than a foot high

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mongo356
August 5, 2011, 04:59 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=605137

Copied from my original post. Is it a short bbl model?? I'm not sure about Vaquero's mine is a Blackhawk.

The only advice I may throw your way... the shorter barrel Rugers seem to shoot high even with the rear sight adjusted all the way down. Now if you buy a stainless steel model they have a handy screw on front sight that you can call Ruger and get a taller front sight. The blued models are welded on meaning back to Ruger or competent gunsmith that can weld a taller one. Third option is what both my father and I did to our guns was remove the rear blade and cut the rear sight notch deeper and file the rear sight down about .030 of an inch. You have to be careful and have some mechanical skills but it can be done.

Byron
August 5, 2011, 05:19 PM
I was about to post a new thread on the new Vaquero in 45 LC when I saw this one. I bought a new one this week in 4 5/8th inch barrel and the extra 45 ACP cyclinder. I am shooting the Speer 250 grain lead at factory specs. Mine is shooting POA/POI at 7 and 15 yards for the LC and ACP cartridges.Several others at the range have shot it with the same results.I am quite pleased with mine. Byron

murdoc rose
August 5, 2011, 05:20 PM
"If you want to hit a man in the chest, aim for his groin." -- Bat Masterson

jimniowa
August 5, 2011, 07:28 PM
I had two Rugers that shot low and left. The barrels had turned (rotated), so look at the muzzel and sight and see if its square. My SBH was repaired and it turned again, which Ruger replaced, the Redhawk has not been shot that much but seems ok. Ruger will fix the problem just get them to pay the freight.
Jim

tazbigdog
August 5, 2011, 08:45 PM
I have a 5.5 NM and a 7.5 NM. Both are accurate as heck and shoot out to 50 yards and hitting steel every time.

petrey10
August 5, 2011, 10:36 PM
its a 5.5'' barrel... its brand spanking new about 250 rounds thru it how would the barrel not be square??? Would going to 200 gr bullet get my sights closer???


what should be my zero?? POA @ 15yards? 25 yards? 7yards?

ghitch75
August 5, 2011, 10:55 PM
my 44-40 is dead on out to 30y.....sounds like the front sight is to short....call ruger....maybe they stuck on one to short by mistake?????

btw is the left and right good?

ArchAngelCD
August 6, 2011, 01:42 AM
petrey10,
Your revolver should not be shooting a foot high at any range. For some reason your revolver came from the factory with a front sight that's too short. It really should be replaced. Most times fixed sight revolvers come through with a front sight that's intentionally too high so you can sight it in with your chosen load. There's nothing you can do to fix a front sight that's already too low other than have it replaced. There's no reason for you to not send it back to Ruger for correction.

woad_yurt
August 6, 2011, 06:53 AM
Send it back; listen to Archangel. A foot high is way out of whack.

mavracer
August 6, 2011, 08:07 AM
Just went through the same thing with my 44 spec. Call Ruger they'll pay shipping both ways. My gun was stainless so I asked them to leave front sight a little tall. They accomadated when I got it back it shot about 6" low. One range session wwith a file and now it's perfect.

petrey10
August 6, 2011, 06:05 PM
I just want to make sure here but you put the front blade level to the rear sight prongs.... and then dead center...


i just want to make sure its not shooter error first

mongo356
August 7, 2011, 02:09 AM
petrey10- yes thats correct, depending on who you ask. some prefer a six-o'clock hold. some prefer a kind of combination of the two-(I fall into this group -middle picture) setting whatever you want to hit right on top of the front blade of the sight.

Sport45
August 7, 2011, 03:17 AM
I have let another shooter shoot it and its the same result....

Are you both experienced handgun shooter?

To be off a foot at 10' the sights would have to be almost an inch out of alignment with the barrel. In other words, the back sight would have to stand an inch taller than the front sight. :eek:

That said, my 7.5" SBH would hit pretty high at 15 yards when shooting .44 specials. The sights were regulated for .44mag and the slower specials allowed more muzzle rise before the bullet left the barrel. Nothing like you're talking about though.

The Lone Haranguer
August 7, 2011, 06:17 AM
Assuming this really is a gun problem ... :) If you were using heavier than normal bullets I could see the high POI, but it should have been regulated for factory loads. And it is harder to add metal to a front sight than to take it away, as one would do if it were shooting low. Although Ruger doesn't have a written warranty, they will still take care of it.

RevDerb
August 7, 2011, 06:32 AM
Service inquires for PC4/PC9 Carbines and all Pistols
excluding the 22 Charger Pistol.

Sturm, Ruger & Co., Inc.
Customer Service Department
200 Ruger Road
Prescott, AZ 86301

Telephone: 928-541-8892 / Fax: 928-778-6633
(Monday through Friday 8:00am - 5:00pm MST)

CSA 357
August 7, 2011, 11:48 AM
i had one that shot high and left filed the sight down and bent it a little to shoot dead on at 15 yards

DenaliPark
August 7, 2011, 06:06 PM
I had the exact same issue with the exact same Ruger Vaquero 5.5' revolver.....I've returned more new Ruger firearms then all others combined over thirty-five years....

atlantis
August 7, 2011, 07:54 PM
No offense Petry, but I would really let an experienced pistol shooter shoot it before you send it back. Buy him a box of shells and see how he does.

At 10' that just doesn't sound possible.

petrey10
August 7, 2011, 11:00 PM
will do... i don't want to bash Ruger or anything... the other shooter I let shoot it was an experienced shooter... this is my first revolver...


filing down the sight would raise the bullet correct? So I need a taller front sight if I am hitting high.

I have shot factory loads and reloads getting the same result...

atlantis
August 7, 2011, 11:36 PM
^^^^^^^
Correct.

If you're sure it's a gun problem, call Ruger. They'll take care of it for you.

ghitch75
August 8, 2011, 08:13 AM
[so I need a taller front sight if I am hitting high]

yes short sight you shoot high......long sight you shoot low....as said in post 8...

kludge
August 8, 2011, 02:48 PM
Currently I am shooting a 250 gr LRNFP over 7.8gr of unique... the bullets are MB Cowboy #1's....



Bump up that load and it'll shoot lower.

You're almost a grain below start.

Sam Cade
August 8, 2011, 06:41 PM
Hmmm.... This might be a trend. I had the exact same issue with the same weapon last year, I sent it back to Ruger and when it came back it had a new barrel.

Gratis of course.

You can't fault them for their customer service.

swindler1
August 8, 2011, 10:13 PM
I'm with Kludge on this one. Alliant shows 9.5gr with a 250gr lswc. I shoot a 250gr lead bullet like yours with 8.8grs of Unique in 4 different Rugers.

www.alliantpowder.com

petrey10
August 9, 2011, 10:33 PM
Lee Manual has MAX at 8gr for Unique

swindler1
August 9, 2011, 11:48 PM
I dont have a Lee book here in front of me so I will take your word at it. My guess is that lee is covering there butt just incase you happen to be shooting a 1st gen colt ( low pressure ). 9.5gr of Unique may damage that gun. You are shooting a Ruger. The minute the hammer drops a SA starts to roll in your hand. The slower the bullet goes down the tube the more the muzzle rises and the bullet leaves higher than your site picture. Your load is right around 800fps. 9.5gr would put you around 1045. Start bumping your load up .3 at a time until you find what YOUR gun needs. You may want to tighten up your grip some also.;)

SwampWolf
August 22, 2011, 03:44 PM
i had one that shot high and left filed the sight down and bent it a little to shoot dead on at 15 yards

Filing down the front sight of a gun that is shooting high is the opposite of what you should be doing if you want the gun's point of impact to be lower in terms of the point of aim.

Lonerider357
August 22, 2011, 05:32 PM
Call Ruger!!!!!

rodger1950
December 18, 2011, 07:32 AM
My new vaquero shot all over so I sent it back and Ruger sent me a new one and said the first was defective. The new one is better but not good enough so I researched and was told to ream the chamber mouth to .452 and this has helped some but after reading these post I think the next thing will be to see if the barrel is twisted. Good luck to you, let me know if you get yours to shoot right.

MuleRyder
December 28, 2011, 06:22 AM
I would start at the load before sending the revolver back to Ruger. The only book in front of me right now is Speer #12. It shows for 250gr lead using Unique, start at 8.6 to a max of 9.5. I have a 4 5/8 new Vaquero and although I haven't shot it in a year, I believe it hit POA. This gives me a reason to dig it out and check it.

Driftwood Johnson
December 28, 2011, 09:02 AM
I dont have a Lee book here in front of me so I will take your word at it. My guess is that lee is covering there butt just incase you happen to be shooting a 1st gen colt ( low pressure ). 9.5gr of Unique may damage that gun. You are shooting a Ruger. The minute the hammer drops a SA starts to roll in your hand. The slower the bullet goes down the tube the more the muzzle rises and the bullet leaves higher than your site picture. Your load is right around 800fps. 9.5gr would put you around 1045. Start bumping your load up .3 at a time until you find what YOUR gun needs. You may want to tighten up your grip some also.

Howdy

With all due respect, in my experience the results are the exact opposite. I have heard this theory put forward many times, but practically speaking it does not hold water. Yes, with a handgun the muzzle starts rising from recoil the instant the bullet starts moving, but practically speaking the difference in time spent in the barrel is insignificant. In fact, the muzzle rises more before the bullet leaves the barrel when a heavier powder charge is put behind the same bullet. I have plenty of targets that will demonstrate this. Generally speaking, with a handgun, if you want to lower the point of impact without doing anything to the sights, reduce the amount of recoil. Period. You can do this by reducing the powder charge behind the same bullet, or by using a lighter bullet. Always staying within the recommendations of recognized published reloading manuals, of course.

Getting back to the original question, how are you shooting the gun? I know a lot of folks believe one should test a gun by shooting it exactly the same way as it will be used most of the time. Most will say the gun should be tested firing standing, either one handed or two, exactly the same way it will normally be fired. The problem with this is it introduces the human element into the equation, and what you really want to know is how does the gun behave all by itself, without the human element being involved. Things like flinch, trigger pull, how the gun is gripped, not to mention how well we can hold the gun steady while it is waving around at the end of our arm, all enter into the equation.

If you want to determine what the gun is doing, reducing all those other elements to a minimum, then bench it. You really ought to try shooting the gun from the bench before considering sending it back to Ruger. If after benching the gun, and all those human variables have been removed, it is still shooting too high to be acceptable, then consider sending it back.

Bench resting a revolver does not have to be elaborate. I usually place a sandbag on top of a small tool box to raise the gun up to my eye level. It is important to be sitting comfortably, not craning the neck to get a good sight picture. Bench the gun so you can see the sights easily while sitting comfortably. Either place the gun butt directly on the sandbag, or rest your hand on the sandbag. Either one, whichever is more comfortable. Bear in mind that with the hand between the grip and the sandbag you may get pinched by a heavy recoiling load. Be sure to form a proper sight picture. Center the front sight in the rear sight, with the top of the front sight level with the top of the rear sight. Then place that sight picture on an easily seen spot on the target. Sometimes holding dead center on the bull is not exact enough. That is why I prefer a 6 O'Clock hold when I bench a pistol. It lets me see exactly where my point of aim is. Stick on target spots, the bright orange type are good too. Generally, make it as small as you can see it. Bigger does not help with accuracy testing. Set your target at a reasonable distance, 10 yards is good for sighting in a pistol.

Consistent trigger pull is important. Pull the trigger with the pad of the finger under your fingernail. Do not rest the trigger in the crease behind your first knuckle, even though that will probably feel more natural. Apply consistent pressure on the trigger so you do not know when it is going to fire. Let the shot be a surprise.

Lastly, be sure to grip the gun consistently for each shot. You are trying to simulate a machine rest. Allow the gun to recoil exactly as it wants to. Do not attempt to restrict the recoil too much, that introduces the human element back in. You want to be imitating a Ransom Rest to see what the gun does all by itself. I always grip a handgun very lightly when first bench testing it, allowing it to recoil the same amount for every shot.

After benching the gun you may discover that it is shooting differently than when shot offhand. Hopefully not as high. No matter what the case, if the gun is shooting differently offhand than from the bench, it is the human element that makes the difference, and you have found a baseline for how the gun actually performs.

If you are still dissatisfied with the point of impact after benching the gun, then by all means contact Ruger. Describe to them exactly how you were shooting the gun, give them load information, and a test target is not a bad idea either.

rcmodel
December 28, 2011, 01:04 PM
Regardless of what the Lee manual says.

8.5 Unique/L-250 has been the "standard" .45 Colt load longer then I have been wearing long pants.

Try that before you send it back.

rc

CraigC
December 28, 2011, 02:09 PM
Sorry DW but conventional wisdom (perpetuated by folks like Elmer Keith, John Taffin, Dave Scovill and Brian Pearce), which has always held true for me, is as follows:

For a given bullet weight, lower velocities will print higher.

For a given velocity, heavier bullets will print higher. General rule of thumb, there are always exceptions.

texagun
December 28, 2011, 02:20 PM
For a given bullet weight, lower velocities will print higher.

For a given velocity, heavier bullets will print higher. General rule of thumb, there are always exceptions.

That has been my experience over the last 50+ years.

Driftwood Johnson
December 28, 2011, 06:10 PM
Sorry DW but conventional wisdom (perpetuated by folks like Elmer Keith, John Taffin, Dave Scovill and Brian Pearce), which has always held true for me, is as follows:

For a given bullet weight, lower velocities will print higher.

For a given velocity, heavier bullets will print higher. General rule of thumb, there are always exceptions.

Then somebody needs to explain to me why 4.4 grains of Unique behind a 158 grain SWC in 38 Special always prints higher than 4.0 grains of Unique behind the same 158 grain SWC. I still maintain, increased velocity in the barrel is insignificant. Increased recoil created by the heavier powder charge causes the muzzle to rise higher before the bullet exits the barrel, resulting in the bullet printing higher.

texagun
December 28, 2011, 06:32 PM
Then somebody needs to explain to me why 4.4 grains of Unique behind a 158 grain SWC in 38 Special always prints higher than 4.0 grains of Unique behind the same 158 grain SWC.

Answered above:

....General rule of thumb, there are always exceptions.


I know from my personal experience, if I need to lower the POI a bit on a fixed sighted gun, I increase the powder by a few tenths of a grain (within loading data limits) and it will bring my group down. ....But as they always say, YMMV.

BCRider
December 28, 2011, 10:01 PM
Then somebody needs to explain to me why 4.4 grains of Unique behind a 158 grain SWC in 38 Special always prints higher than 4.0 grains of Unique behind the same 158 grain SWC.....

Looking at my Lyman book I can't explain your findings. Your stated loads are at the lower end of the range for loads and up near but not quite to the top. But it certainly runs counter to my own experience which is the same as the others above. To give you an accurate answer we'd need to know more about the actual measured size of the bullets you're using and if you're using actual .38Spl cases or loading .38Spl loads in the bigger volume .357 cases and likely some other factors.

I do know that I have often played a bit of a game of "Revolver Roulette" with my .357Mag guns. I'll load five .38Spl and one .357Mag. The Mag round ALWAYS prints about 3 inches low when shooting from my S&W Model 19 when shooting at 12'ish yards. And this is all with my own reloads using JHP bullets from the same batch in both reloads. One with 3.6 gns of Bullseye and the mag rounds with some amount of 2400 that puts them at around 3/4 of the top end for power.

One aspect that occurs to me now that I read over my post before submitting it is that the 4 gn load of Unique at around 850 fps may just be a mild enough load that it doesn't have the power to lift the muzzle. If I'm right then you'd find that moving up more to the middle of the load range, such as comparing 4.2 gns of Unique to your 4.4gn load SHOULD see the results agree with what we're saying.

But either way it's always been a case for myself where slower or heavier prints higher than faster or lighter for the reasons mentioned by the others. And not just with revolvers. It holds true for semis as well. When I was trying out some 147gn reloads for IPSC ammo I found that the slow 900'ish fps needed to meet the IPSC minor PF had my shots hitting around 2 to 2.5 inches higher than my POA where with 115's and 125's the gun shot dead on to the POA.

Driftwood Johnson
December 28, 2011, 11:21 PM
One aspect that occurs to me now that I read over my post before submitting it is that the 4 gn load of Unique at around 850 fps may just be a mild enough load that it doesn't have the power to lift the muzzle. If I'm right then you'd find that moving up more to the middle of the load range, such as comparing 4.2 gns of Unique to your 4.4gn load SHOULD see the results agree with what we're saying.

Howdy Again

Don't mean to be hijacking this thread. But since you asked, all my 38 Special ammo is loaded in 38 Special cases. The bullets in question are .358 diameter 158 grain Semi-Wadcutters, a very common bullet for 38 Special. I don't remember specifically at this time exactly which revolver they were fired from but it was most likely a 5 screw S&W M&P with a six inch barrel, as I have a couple of these and love shooting them. Which ever gun it was, the tests were done on the same day, so both loads would have been out of the same gun. And yes, the muzzle did flip up with the lighter loads. But it flipped up more with the heavier loads. I could feel it.

ArchAngelCD
December 28, 2011, 11:50 PM
Arguing about different loads will not help the OP considering he already told us he got the same results with factory ammo as he did with reloads. The gun is defective and needs service in the form of replacing the front sight...

Super Sneaky Steve
December 29, 2011, 09:44 PM
I just bought a new Vaquero in .45 Colt too. My throats are .451. I emailed Ruger about it so we'll see if they fix it.

I haven't shot it yet, but I'll get to that this weekend.

jfrey
December 29, 2011, 09:59 PM
This is my experience and Craigc is right. I load 200 gr and 255 gr bullets over 7.0 gr of Unique. The 255's shoot to point of aim but the 200's will shoot 8 to 10 inches low. Lighter bullet with same powder charge will definately shoot low (ie. faster load). This is out of 2 matched New Vaquesos. Put up two targets, one directly below the other one and shoot at the upper target. See what happens. Do this at 15 yds.

tlmkr38
December 29, 2011, 11:28 PM
Do you have or know someone who does have a set of calipers and do you have access to another Vaquero. If so take the calipers and measure over the front sight to the bottom of the barrel. Since these barrels are made on a production line they should all be close to the same diameter (+/- a few thousandths ). Then measure the other one. hey should be close.

One other thing to check as I have to do this also, is to concentrate on holding tight when you squeeze the trigger to make sure that the pistol isn't sliding in your hand early. Sometimes if I don't concentrate or let my grip get slack mine shoot high as well .

If you can measure it but don't have another to compare to Pm me with what you get and I'll check mine .

huntsman
December 29, 2011, 11:36 PM
The gun is defective and needs service in the form of replacing the front sight...

There's an article in a Gun Digest about a guy who shoots SAA to get them to shoot the same he's got a hydraulic press and Vee-blocks to gradually bend the barrels to correct POI, may not be for everybody but there is a way of correcting it without sight repair.

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