ruger sp101 or SW pro series 60


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lobo9er
August 7, 2011, 01:14 PM
what do you think? Is the model 60 pro series worth an extra $150-200 dollars? Application will be hiking and back up side arm when hunting. The Sp101 was my 1st pick and then i stumbled on the pro series now i am not sure. I like the no frills approach to sp101 but i like the style and adjustable sights on the model 60

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jfh
August 7, 2011, 02:15 PM
Given what you have said here, I see no reason to go with the 60 Pro Series. For your intended use, the SP101 will probably do what you want just fine--and, should you be shooting the bigger 357 rounds, will absorb that recoil a bit better.

I've owned an SP101, a 60 Pro-3", and a 60-3"HB. I actually liked the standard 60 (with adjustable sights) with the 3" heavy barrel best. The Pro will have a better trigger, one or two other features, and cost that extra. Not worth it, IMO. Of the two basic chassis, though, I prefer the S&W over the Ruger.

Jim H.

rich642z
August 7, 2011, 03:02 PM
I have the 2.25 inch barrel of the SP101. Built and no Klinton lock.

lobo9er
August 7, 2011, 03:23 PM
whats a klinton lock?

Robert B
August 7, 2011, 03:36 PM
This is the Internal Lock System or ILS on the newer Smith's. People will say they have never had any problems with them, but every once in a while somebody has their gun lock up when firing. It's up to you. I recently purchased a S&W 442-1 without the lock and brand new from Bud's Gun Shop online. I use my snubby for defense, and I can't take the chance on it locking up during a confrontation.

lobo9er
August 7, 2011, 03:38 PM
like the taurus locking thing?

Robert B
August 7, 2011, 03:50 PM
Right. A lock that is supposed to inactivate the gun for storage.

wrs840
August 7, 2011, 03:59 PM
Ruger SPs feel a little heavy and clunky to me.

I will probably own a 60 Pro 3" some day, I just really "want" one and I think it would IWB very well when the family and I are on some of our light-woods vacationing excursions. ...but I'm not looking forward to paying 30% more than I think it actually ought to cost.

For now, my 2-1/2" 637 will do.

Peakbagger46
August 7, 2011, 04:03 PM
I have a 2.5 SP101 and love it for woods carry. It is built, and the sights are very usable and well regulated for 158g loads. I would guess it is somewhat "tougher" than the Smith.

codefour
August 8, 2011, 04:41 AM
You can shoot any load in the SP-101, from +P .38 Spcl to very hot .357 Mag. This is not recommended for the Model 60. I was in teh same dilema. I bought an SP-101 with a 2.25 barrel in .357. It is built like a tank. The S&W was smoother but not nearly as strong. The Ruger just felt and looked stronger.

I smoothed out the trigger and action myself. Just put a Wolf Spring kit in it. You can see the video on "how to" on YouTube.

ArchAngelCD
August 8, 2011, 05:03 AM
You can shoot any load in the SP-101, from +P .38 Spcl to very hot .357 Mag. This is not recommended for the Model 60.
I have to disagree, the M60 will shoot anything the Ruger will shoot. The only reason why the SP101 is so much larger than other revolvers is the way they are made. Investment Casting requires the frame to be larger to equal the smaller frame of a forged frame.

I'm also not a fan of the trigger on the SP101. It's not only rough it does that thing the SP101 is known for, it gets "stuck" if you're not sure to let it reset completely or if you try to fire it too fast. AND NO, I do not hate Ruger products. I own several Rugers and wouldn't trade or sell them for the world. (mostly SA revolvers)

ColtPythonElite
August 8, 2011, 01:30 PM
My pick is for the SP. I bought a SP in .357 when they first came out in that caliber. It is my favorite .357 for wearing on long days, because it is the smallest and lightest I own. I have the 2 1/4 barrelled job. Don't let the short barrel and fixed sights fool you. They are very accurate or at least mine is. Paper plates are easy hits out to about 25 yards. That's pretty darn accurate for a snubby in my book.

Nico Testosteros
August 8, 2011, 01:37 PM
I vote for, and will soon get out of layaway, a 3" SP101. I shot a friends before I decided. It handled 180 gr castcore loads well and was accurate. I've never shot a Model 60 so I can't compare them.

jfh
August 8, 2011, 02:09 PM
sooooooo, ColtPythonElite--where did you find the 24" dia. paper plates?

Jim H.

PS: (That's a joke, folks.)

dprice3844444
August 8, 2011, 02:14 PM
i love smith,but i would buy the ruger fixed sights because it's a beefier setup for 357 use.adjustable sights on a pack gun might get knocked out of alignment or broken.fixed sights are idiot proof

Stainz
August 8, 2011, 02:47 PM
I have owned a new SP-101 - a 4" in .32 H&RM. It came with more QC issues than any two other of my 'worst' other revolvers combined (And they were Rugers, too!). I have fewer revolvers now - but they are dependable - and all S&W's.

In January of this year I bought a new 60 Pro for ~$631 + s/t. Yes, it was over a C-note more than a Ruger SP-101 2.25" .357M - and a steal at that.

http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/Stainz_2007/IMG_4578.jpg

If you need a good holster, here is mine in my new S&W/DeSantis holster, from S&W Accessories ($65 + s/h):

http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/Stainz_2007/009.jpg

That's my previous purchase, another 3" J-frame that fits in the holster,too - and a fun 8 x .22 LR.

Don't let anyone kid you, the 60 Pro, all 23+ oz of it, is SAAMI spec'd for .357 Magnum. To me - it's a .38 Spcl +P (+P 158gr LHPSWC's in the speedloader.), but your wrist will be the limiting factor. I expect you will want to swap those great wood grips for rubber for a full diet of .357 Magnum. I'm not as fond of the Tritium Night Sight it comes with, either. The trigger is great riight out of the box. I got burned out on Rugers several years ago, so I am biased. Oh, the Internal Lock on the S&W's started appearing ten years ago - after Clinton. Interestingly, S&W has not spent the first dime defending themselves from a faulty IL suit. Most of my S&W's have the IL - including my 642-2 pocket protector. It is a perceptual problem - in my world. YMMV.

Stainz

ColtPythonElite
August 8, 2011, 03:50 PM
sooooooo, ColtPythonElite--where did you find the 24" dia. paper plates?


I use the ones out of the bottom of a XL pizza box...LOL.

JERRY
August 8, 2011, 04:01 PM
id prefer to not buy a defensive gun with a built in lock needing a tool to disengage it.

ColtPythonElite
August 8, 2011, 04:04 PM
Don't use the lock...problem solved.

JERRY
August 8, 2011, 04:05 PM
the lock might have other ideas of its own. small as they are, it has happened before.

too many good S&W on the market to buy one with a built in lock.

Paladin38-40
August 8, 2011, 06:46 PM
Both the Ruger 101 and the S&W 60 are reliable, durable, and accurate. But the "built like a tank" assumption always seems to float to the top for the Ruger fans. Actually neither are built like a tank for a lot of hot .357 magnums and few people shoot a lot of hot .357's in them anyway as the recoil is rather stiff.

1. The S&W adjustable sights are a plus if you do more than clay pit plinking. It allows for zeroing different loads and different shooters individual grip styles which affect point of impact.

2. The larger S&W adjustable sight is quicker for the eye to align.

3. The S&W has a larger array of after-market grips available.

4. The S&W trigger system is smoother than the Ruger.

The Ruger balance is just clunky to me. (subjective I acknowledge.)

This whole debate is admittedly somewhat of a Coke vs. Pepsi debate as a lot depends on personal preferences. 1-4 will matter more to some than others. But do go with the 3" barrel version if Ruger is the one you choose.

EVIL
August 8, 2011, 09:06 PM
FOr the application the OP stated: Ruger SP101, I like fixed sights, for a rugged backup weapon that lives in a holster which can take the abuse of a demanding hunt, and the Ruger is plenty accurate at defensive ranges Sure, if this was to be a primary paper - puncher the Smith has the edge but in that case, most here would argue for a heavier N-Frame or Ruger GP-100 for the same cash outlay. I wouldn't want to shoot more than a box of .357 out of either a SP101 or a S&W 60 in any given range session. But, I can shoot .38s out of the Ruger SP101 all day. The Ruger can be had for approx < $500, which is a bargain.

ColtPythonElite
August 8, 2011, 09:14 PM
Both the Ruger 101 and the S&W 60 are reliable, durable, and accurate. But the "built like a tank" assumption always seems to float to the top for the Ruger fans. Actually neither are built like a tank for a lot of hot .357 magnums and few people shoot a lot of hot .357's in them anyway as the recoil is rather stiff.



Ruger was confident enough in their gun to provide one for a torture test right after they introduced it in .357:

(In fact, a few days after testing the gun, I received a memo from Ruger explaining that they had performed their own torture test on the revolver by allowing 10 shooters working in relay to put 5,000 rounds of .357 Magnum through the gun. When the revolver got too hot, they dunked it in a bucket of water, and at the end the gun showed no signs of damage or fatigue.)



Here's a source for it online. The original quote is from 1992:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3197/is_n7_v37/ai_12789747/

I remember reading that torture test in a gun rag and knowing I wanted one.

Guillermo
August 8, 2011, 09:20 PM
The Ruger is a better gun.

like the taurus locking thing?
Don't use the lock...problem solved

Since the Taurus lock works perpendicular to the recoil of the gun, ignoring it works
The Ruger lock is hidden under the grips and is does not work on the same axis as the recoil of the gun.

Ignoring the S&W lock is a little less sure. It works on the same axis as the recoil of the gun and to make matters worse...opposite.

They tend to lock themselves

psyshack
August 8, 2011, 09:56 PM
Wife has a 60 Pro. It's a fantastic hand gun! The grip is great! and the trigger was good out of the box. Two springs and stones and it's great!

It's eat's everything my 686P does. Mag's are not a problem at all. The wife had issues with .357's in the beginning. Now she shoots them with no issue's. The grips are very good. A high grip is indeed easy. The front night sight is a nice touch.

It really is a fine shooting hand gun. And takes to a tune very well. It is deadly accurate and a joy to shoot. :) We got a great deal on the pistol from Lipsey's thru a local FLL this time last year. It looks to me over all prices have dropped about $50 on them.

It really looks great in OEM trim. For the wife, it's her full size. She cant stand my 4" 686P. For me it is a true tool in my hand. Very quick and on point in my hand.

When we were shopping she hated the little Ruger. The trigger was overly heavy as was the pistol. She said it felt like something made in Russia in her hand. Why is it so bulky? I explained the investment casting. Why Ruger has it dialed in. They have to over build it a tad to insure safety and stability.

I think,,, no I know I like the pistol more than she does. :)

It's only flaw IMHO is side plate fit. She looks at it as character. :)

http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/638/medium/m60pro2.jpg

Guillermo
August 8, 2011, 10:19 PM
I use the ones out of the bottom of a XL pizza box

I never thought of that!!!

My shooting is going to improve dramatically!!!

lobo9er
August 8, 2011, 10:54 PM
They tend to lock themselves

Has anyone seen this happen or have video of it locking while firing?

Guillermo
August 8, 2011, 11:01 PM
Has anyone seen this happen or have video of it locking while firing?

LOL

ArchAngelCD
August 9, 2011, 03:11 AM
Actually, Michael Bane from the Outdoor Channel and Downrange TV reported last year he had video of a S&W revolver locking itself. He posted the report on his Blog late at night and said when they process the video he would put it up on Downrange TV within the next few days. Well, two days later the Blog disappeared and the video was never posted. I can only guess S&W go to him or the people who pay him. Too bad, I would have liked to see that video.

scotjute
August 9, 2011, 12:25 PM
What finally made the choice for me was the grip and the larger hammer on the SP101 simply felt better and gave me better control for my hand.

lobo9er
August 9, 2011, 05:24 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzKh5Y0TaY0&feature=related

Dan-O
August 9, 2011, 06:15 PM
It is painful to watch that guy.

Rexster
August 9, 2011, 07:35 PM
Somebody who works, or worked, at Ruger seems to be my long-lost twin, separated at birth, because the SP101 grip, and original, pre-Hogue GP100 grip, and the stocks of several of the rifles and shotguns fit me perfectly. Moreover, the heft of the SP101 soaks up recoil, in conjunction with the perfect-for-me grip, such that even 180-grain hunting loads are not excessive.

I have not found a grip for J-frames that accommodate recoil as well, except perhaps for the Pachmayr Decelerator, which sticks to everything, makes the overall weapon too bulky, and is too squishy for my taste. I have owned several pre-key-lock S&W J-frames, which were/are excellent. One was a 3" heavy-barrel Model 60, and one of my biggest cases of delayed seller's remorse resulted from my parting with it. With a Pachmayr Presentation grip, I could shoot it as well as a 4" larger-framed S&W sixgun, out to about 15 to 25 yards.

In answer to the question, if I wanted to carry Specials, the excellent Model 60 sure looks nice, but if wanting to carry Magnums, the SP101 is my answer.

scottishclaymore
August 9, 2011, 07:56 PM
Hmm. Sounding more and more like I just need to give in and get an SP101 and call it good...

lobo9er
August 9, 2011, 11:03 PM
It is painful to watch that guy.

yeah i dont care for his videos but his came up when searched smith and wesson lock problem.

Dan-O
August 10, 2011, 01:51 AM
You happen to watch his, "Why I am selling my baby Glock"? Oh, Lordy....'nough said.

PRM
August 10, 2011, 02:15 PM
The S&W was smoother but not nearly as strong

Both are great guns. I like carrying the S&W better. How strong does it have to be? Most modern high tech guns are now polymer.

You could build your house out of steel instead of wood. Steel would be stronger ~ but do you need it.

Both will do the job.

oldfool
August 10, 2011, 02:34 PM
"Is the model 60 pro series worth an extra $150-200 dollars?'

I vote yes

maybe because I own the 3" SP101, but not the 60 pro
the 3" SP101 I do love, but it's not a really good OWB CCW carry piece for me
the 60 pro appeals to me as maybe the best choice out there in 3", current manufacture, any brand

But I don't much believe in 357 full mag loads out of any 3" barrel, much less a 23 oz, 3 inch. I would load 38+P, not because you will damage either gun with 357, but it's just not a load I would choose for me.

Aside from all the usual/predictable ILS flame game comments, in a 23 oz 357 gun, I would simply have it removed and plugged, no big deal.
(I do think the ILS design is stoopid engineering, fatally flawed design, but it's simply not a deciding factor for me; irrelevant if I like whatever else the gun is, irrelevant if I don't like whatever else the gun is.)

I would love to try a 60 pro, but if I did, I would be pert-near guaranteed to be left with a lite wallet in my hip pocket, and I don't use plastic I cannot pay off in full every week, period. Not for anything, including pizza.

Guillermo
August 10, 2011, 10:45 PM
fatally flawed design, but it's simply not a deciding factor for me; irrelevant if I like whatever else the gun is, irrelevant if I don't like whatever else the gun is.

I assume that you will disable it

skidder
August 10, 2011, 11:10 PM
When did they start adding monkey locks on Smiths?? I guess that's what I get for taking that 20 year nap under that tree......:rolleyes:

lobo9er
August 10, 2011, 11:13 PM
so its possible to remove the lock and have the gun function normal? I saw a video removing the lock on a 686 but wasnt sure if it was a good idea or not.

Guillermo
August 11, 2011, 12:16 AM
so its possible to remove the lock and have the gun function normal?

many have done so and report good results.

others have suggested that increased liability exists if the gun is involved in an accidental or self defense shooting.

I am not a lawyer, not do I play one on TV.

I prefer to avoid the whole thing, as well as the MIM parts. I like my S&Ws from the 60s or earlier.

engineer88
August 11, 2011, 12:33 AM
I am not anti-ils. I have a couple of them. If I could have caught a no lock model for the price I paid, I would have definitely done so. That said my two favorite revolvers are my SP101 and my 4" model 64. No locks, made very solid and fine shooters. I got my SP101 used for $339 spent $75 on trigger job and springs and feel like I got a lot more gun for my money then a 60 pro. If I had it all to do over again, I would still own the SP101. It is my favorite handgun I own.

Shienhausser
August 11, 2011, 01:12 AM
My lock/mim smith is a range/hunt backup gun.

My 2 legged animal gun is no lock no mim. I wanted it this way.

Guillermo
August 11, 2011, 01:36 AM
Shienhausser is a smart guy.

Take no chances when dealing with the North American Primate.

And I am glad that Shienhausser is one of the good guys. I am glad he does not carry an IL gun for protection.

788Ham
August 11, 2011, 01:49 AM
"The SP's feel a little heavy, kinda klunky" This is what sold me on the SP 101. I like the feel of the heavier barrel, mine is 3" {actually 3.06"}, the extra weight will keep the barrel from whipping too hard when shooting .357's. A gentleman I know, who shoots comp. with a revolver, told me the SP 101 is about the best revolver out there today, will handle all loads, .38 and .357, better than most 4"ers of any other make. I haven't had a chance to shoot mine a lot yet, but love the heft and the way the revolver fits my hand. YMMV

MachIVshooter
August 11, 2011, 12:30 PM
What finally made the choice for me was the grip and the larger hammer on the SP101 simply felt better and gave me better control for my hand

You'll come to hate that hammer if you shoot a lot of SA. The heavy draw weight and sharp edges tear your thumb up (And I work with my hands).

I took a file to mine to knock the points down a bit, especially on the edges.

so its possible to remove the lock and have the gun function normal?

Yes. Easy to do. There are also plugs available for the hole. No gunsmith skills required, just a modicum of aptitude for taking things apart and putting them back together. The spring loaded fork that used to hold the lock cylinder & cam is what retains the plug.

Post #14:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/102217-plug-s-w-j-frame-2.html

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