[madhatta]

I would really like I little rugged carbine in either .223, or 7.62x39. The ruger's fit the bill, except for the massive amount of reviews stating just how very poor the accuracy is of these guns. SO, what would be good options for a 'pickup' gun other than a Mini??

[Forseti]

I almost got a Mini-14 once. Thank goodness I was talked out of it and built my own AR-15. So, first choice, AR-15. Parts and configurability is awesome, for only a slight premium over the Mini-14.

In the "new and untried, but looks pretty good" category, Kel tec is about to release a FOLDABLE .223 with an integrated bipod/forward grip that uses standard AR-15 magazines. This should be a real price performer. Scheduled for May, last time I looked...info is here: http://www.kel-tec.com/pr04.htm

If this is for a truck, a weapon such as this that folds in half is very useful. The magazines for the weapon actually can be stored in the stock...

Note that sights appear to be plastic, so I can't image accuracy with "regular" stocks will be stellar...but there is a rail for optical sights...

[4v50 Gary]

Israeli made M-1 Carbine in 22 Johnson Spitfire (30 carbine case necked down to 22 caliber). Smaller and lighter than a Mini-14. 15 or 30 round magazines are easy to come by. Good enough for urban unrest.

[Chaz]

It really depends on what you will use the rifle for. I have a Mini14, my uncles had them for years, and they were quite accurate. Like has been said before on this forum and TFL, If you want to shoot quarters at 500 yds buy an AR. They are expensive but well built and should retain thier value. If you want a relativly inexpensive, rugged plinker, then buy the Mini. If you want very rugged, dependable, and inexpesive plinker then buy an AK :D

I have both the Mini and the AK. Can't afford the AR yet but since I dont plan on being a sniper or shooting targets beyond 100yds my rifles suit me fine. The AR is a fine rifle and I will get one someday but If I want to hit targets out past 100 yds I'll buy a bolt action w/ a scope.

It all comes down to what am I going to buy the rifle for?

Chaz

[Joe Demko]

If 7.62X39 is okay, why not an SKS? They're substantially cheaper, in most cases, than the Rugers. They're very rugged and acceptably accurate, in my experience. Back when they first started bringing them in from China, I bought a couple for (I think) about $80 each. I found them far more satisfactory than either of the Ruger Minis I owned, even w/o factoring in how much less I paid for them. I've had only limited experience with detachable magazine SKS's, but the integral 10 rounders on mine have always worked flawlessly and load very quickly from stripper clips.

[Andrew Wyatt]

I would really like a little rugged carbine in either .223, or 7.62x39.


Ar 15's are not little, height wise or lengthwise, and neither are sks's.


Ar-15's aren't carbines, and Sks's are battle rifles that just happen to be in an intermiediate cartridge.

Your best bet is the mini-14, since it's small handy, and a handy little carbine does not need to be sub MOA.

[madhatta]

Ok...
Let's say I decided that the accuracy issues associated with the Ruger's were not that big of a deal to me... My question now would be, is the accuracy of the mini30 much worse than the mini14, or is it about the same?
thanks

[Dave R]

"a little rugged carbine in either .223....

A Romanian SAR-3 (.223) or SAR-1 (7.62 X 39) meets that description. They run around $300-$350.

[Freedom in theSkies]

I just picked up a Norinco SKS for 140.00Cdn. (or about 85.00US)

Surplus 7.62x39 ammo is very inexpensive for these guns.

I had mine out to the range yesterday. I was hitting the 200yd. gong (12x12) tanding rapid fire about 75% of the time. Temp was -22 degrees.

I'd say it might just have a spot behind the seat of the 'ol pick-em-up truck:)

[bad_dad_brad]

The Mini-14 makes a good truck gun, I just wish they were cheaper. I kick myself, for just a few years ago, I passed up a brand new Mini-14, blued, with wood furniture for $359. I have a SS with plastic that I payed over $500 and because of the price I have never been satisfied, until I bought my AR-15.

That is my basic complaint with the Mini-14. They are way overpriced for what they are. Hey at $360 bucks, I can put up with 4" groups. It is a nice rifle, light and handy, sort of what the M1 carbine was like, accurate enough at 50 yards, and very reliable.

For what you want, I would not recommend the AR15, although it is a great rifle, it is no truck gun. Armalite has advertised their version of the AR18 called the AR18B, which if priced under $500 might fit the bill, but they are currently rare, and the price hovers over $600.

Finally, you might consider a Savage 11 bolt action in .223. Very accurate, reliable, and reasonably priced, and if all you want is a few quick shots, this might work for you.

http://www.savagearms.com/centerfire/hunter/11f.htm

[Art Eatman]

madhatta, I always put a Weaver K4 on my Mini-14s, and always got 3-shot groups inside two inches at 100 yards. I did in a fair number of jackrabbits, coyotes and feral cats, with most shots in the 50- to 125-yard category.

To me, the most important thing about a "casual" hunting rifle is whether the first shot always goes where it's expected, not how tight a group you can get from a high-cap magazine.

Back about 20 years ago, there was a jackrabbit population explosion in northern Nevada and SW Idaho. I happened to be up near Winnemucca, visiting a buddy. We went out with our Mini-14s and did in somewhere around 120 jacks in not much over an hour, sitting right close to the truck. Few shots were as much as 200 yards. There were darned few misses. That's one of the few hot-barrel sessions I recall, but I sure didn't have any complaints...

:), Art

[Poodleshooter]

I'll vote for a SAR-1. The SAR-1 is quite light, can be accessorized, is unfailingly reliable, shoots cheap ammo,is ugly enough to get bumped around without any worry, and costs less NIB than a Mini of any variety. It's probably cheaper NIB than many used Mini's, for that matter. All that and accuracy is quite similar-poor from the bench, but capable of hitting what you aim at.

[cheygriz]

Try a SAR-2. (Ronamian AK-74) Light, handy, almost no recoil, and in the hard hitting 5.45X39 Russian caliber. 30 round magazines available for under 10 dollars.

And the legendary Kalashnikov reliability!

[BamBam-31]

Hey Art,

You should write up a "Standard Mini-14 response" and just paste it on every new Mini thread. I wonder how many minutes (or hours) in your life you've used defending the Mini. ;)

My Mini-14 shoots the aforementioned 4-5" groups, but that's all I expect from it, so I'm not disappointed. It's also every bit as reliable as advertised.

Fun, handy little plinker.

[swingset]

Why not a Saiga 7.62x39 Carbine (16" barrel, 10 shot)????

It's an AK action, good russian build. Super reliable, cheap to shoot, smaller than a Mini-14, probably every bit as accurate, and WAAAAY cheaper.

Plus, it's rifle-stocked. Unless you're after hi-capacity, it's a better rifle, IMHO for half as much.

[madhatta]

swingset,
I actually have looked at the Saiga, and have heard good things about them. They are under strong consideration, especially considering the price- thanks.

[Art Eatman]

Bam-Bam, you're probably right. I could also follow with the "Whatcha gonna do with it?" dissertation.

Somebody 'splain sumpn to me: Why is it at all important about the group size for more than three shots, if you're not shooting some variant of benchrest target, whether or not in competition?

In a hunting or utility rifle, 99.9% of the time one shot is all that's made. Wiley Coyote just do not hang around when the first shot is a miss, and trying to hit a scared coyote is about as close to an exercise in futility as the Lord ever devised.

In some sort of inter-personal squabble, precision aimed fire is just not part of the deal, particularly if there's a whole bunch of personals.

Just wonderin',

Art

[Lochaber]

I cant speak for others, but the reason I try to get nice tight groups is because it forces me to be consistent, not so much the rifle. That way hopefully I will still be consistent if I need that single shot done right.

As for the Mini, personaly I dont like the way it balances in my hands. I have been going through the same kind search lately, and I am leaning towards the Saiga.

Loch

[Joe Demko]

The Mini-30 is about as good as an SKS. The substantially lower price of the SKS points rather strongly to purchasing it over the Ruger. For use in other-than-TEOWAKI situations, one would do as well as the other. Why not purchase the cheaper of the two and spend the balance on ammunition?

[nascarnhlnra]

My mini 14 is accurate enough that I don't believe someone being shot with it is gonna complain about shot #2 or #3 being 2"-3" apart on their chest !:D

[BusMaster007]

GREAT. JUST GREAT.
Tax return time is coming and I've been all over the map trying to figure what rifle to get...NOW you've got me thinking about a Mini-14...THHAAA--ANKS!!! :D

[dude]

BusMaster--depending on how 'upper' you are..........I traded a nice like new preban non-ranch blue Mini-14 to SM gunshop in Eugene OR that is still on the rack for pretty cheap

I'm not into .223 and ended up with it a few months earlier on a complicated trade.

[SodaPop]

If I fired 100rds threw my Mini 14 in the weather we're having in Pennsylvania, barrel heat up IS NOT AN ISSUE!!!:uhoh:

I think we've had about a high of 20F and a low of 8F for over two weeks.

[Cruiser]

After messing around with finnicky AR's for years, I finally bought a Mini-14. It fits me better, points more naturally for me, is accurate enough (especially topped with an Aimpoint Comp-M), and had never malfunctioned.

It's the rifle that's with me for all my patrol and SWAT duties.

[CAP]

I got one of each so I'm covered. :D

[amprecon]

Madhatta,
I've had a .223 Mini-14, a 16" SKS and now a SLR-95. The Mini's are definitely handy rifles, but I just didn't like the .223 caliber, accuracy was ok for a couple hundred yards, nothing spectacular though. I don't think they were designed with accuracy being paramount, maybe that's why they're relatively inexpensive.
The 16" "paratrooper" model Norinco SKS was nice, and fairly accurate, probably slightly better than the Mini, but hi-caps were difficult to manipulate and awkward and I wanted hi-capacity. So I moved on to what I consider the best built AK on the market, the Bulgarian made SLR-95. It's as accurate if not slightly better than the SKS and hi-caps are very affordable as is the ammo for it. I don't care for the thumbhole stock, but I can live with it as it is probably sturdier than the traditional pistol grip design.....thanks Bill. But I paid $365 for it about 4 years ago. www.sksman.com has American (made for the Bulgarian Arsenal Company) SA M-7 AK's that has the traditional stock and pistol grip on a milled receiver.
If you've never fired an AK-47 you ought to give it a try with a fully loaded 30rnd magazine, it's a real blast.

[Matt Sutton]

I have an Armalite 180B and love it. No problems at all. It's plenty accurate, even when warm. It's even eaten a bunch of Wolf without a single hitch.
Just like any other gun, they're not for everyone. I knew from the moment I heard that Armalite was reintroducing them that I'd have to own one. I wasn't disappointed.