H&R SPORTSMAN Research


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32 Magnum
August 9, 2011, 03:12 PM
It has become apparent, recently, that there are some holes in the H&R SPORTSMAN history and development both in the Double Action 999 and the Single Action 199. More research is warranted to fill in those holes. IF you own any H&R SPORTSMAN and would like to contribute to the research, I would appreciate the following information (pics would be a great asset):
1. Serial Number (partials are welcome, but entire numbers will help more)?
2. Firing pin on hammer or mounted in frame?
3. Safety rim on cylinder? PATENT APPLIED FOR; one patent number; two patent numbers?
4. Cylinder release: 1" long lever on right side -or- small push button on left side of frame right in front of cylinder.
5. Location of Manufacturer's address - on top of barrel -or- on right side?
6. DA or SA?
7. Adjustable or fixed front sight? If fixed - soldered in slot or pinned in slot?

Thanks in advance. I'll provide era of manufacture and Model and Variation determination for your SPORTSMAN.

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acmax95
August 11, 2011, 12:57 PM
What are your opinions of these guns? Are they good shooters? A 999 Double Action .22LR is for sale on a local classifieds site for $250 or trade. It is a beautiful gun but I don't know anything about them.

Sorry if this is inappropriate. Just looking for some info.

32 Magnum
August 11, 2011, 05:37 PM
ACmax - in general, the vast majority are excellent shooters and exhibit better than average accuracy. RETAIL values have doubled over the past 4 years or so - $250 for one in good shape is a good buy. My experience shows the pre WW2 pieces to have better fit and finish, smoother actions and better overall accuracy. Give me the serial number of the offered piece and I'll tell you the year of production. Then when you buy it you can provide the info I'm looking for in the research project.:D

CajunBass
August 12, 2011, 08:03 AM
Let me see if I can help some. Here's mine.

1. Serial Number (partials are welcome, but entire numbers will help more)?
R56175 Which I believe indicates 1955

2. Firing pin on hammer or mounted in frame?
Hammer

3. Safety rim on cylinder? PATENT APPLIED FOR; one patent number; two patent numbers?
I'm not sure what this means? There is a lip around the cylinder, sort of a recess for the entire cylinder. No patent numbers I can see.

4. Cylinder release: 1" long lever on right side -or- small push button on left side of frame right in front of cylinder.
Small push button, left side of frame.

5. Location of Manufacturer's address - on top of barrel -or- on right side?

No address. Just the words "H&R Sportsman" "Double Action" on the left side of the barrel. The only other markings at all, are the words "22 Long Rifle" on the right side, forward of the cylinder.

6. DA or SA?
Double

7. Adjustable or fixed front sight? If fixed - soldered in slot or pinned in slot?

Adjustable, pinned.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b292/CajunBass/handguns/100_0140.jpg

I got it last summer. I paid $138.00 out the door for it. The rear sight is missing. One of these days I gotta get one, but I can hit cans at plinking range without it.

32 Magnum
August 12, 2011, 12:33 PM
Cajun,
Thanks for the info. As you posted - your piece was made in 1955 and is a 2nd Model, 1st Variation. You got your's at a fantastic price. Try www.wisnersinc.com
They are making or have supply from someone who is making replacement rear sight blades - originals are damn near impossible to find. Measure the slot in the sight base - there are two sizes .070" and .090" - I'm pretty sure yours will be the .090" version????
Again, thanks for the info - already posted to the file/data base.

MikeJackmin
August 13, 2011, 01:25 PM
Not really what you're looking for, but this Iver Johnson is part of the same family tree I guess:

http://www.ffmmov.com/supershot8.jpg

I'm happy to provide details if you want them.

32 Magnum
August 13, 2011, 02:32 PM
Mike,
Thanks for the offer, but I'm in need of H&R SPORTSMAN info.
That surely is a nice looking IJ!

KevininPa
August 13, 2011, 05:50 PM
.......try here for that rear sight, it's where I got mine ( although it was a few years ago ):

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/

Hmmm, I've run into your posts over on the Rimfire Forum. Sportsman, FS22...it seems are tastes are the same. Great minds really do think alike!:)

32Magnum, you already dated mine on the GunBroker Forum (Thank you very much! ). One day I have to get to Hellertown. Would love to see that H&R collection. Unfortunately, I only have the Sportsman and a NEF R92. One of these days I'd like to get one of the SAA clones. Preferably a '49er.

32 Magnum
August 15, 2011, 11:54 AM
I need more info on the H&R SPORTSMAN revolvers. There's gotta be more out there.
147394

147395

147398

goon
August 15, 2011, 09:10 PM
I saw one locally for $450 used in online ads the other day and thought the seller must have been smoking pot! I remember back in the day when the MSRP on them was $279 new.

351 WINCHESTER
August 15, 2011, 09:15 PM
32magnum, I had a 777 ultra sportsman (single action). According to some expert it was the highest serial no. which was 897U, yes that's correct. The U was part of the serial no.
Hope that helps.

32 Magnum
August 15, 2011, 11:09 PM
351 Winchester - thanks - attached are pics of my 777 ULTRASPORTSMAN.
147449

147450

chicharrones
August 16, 2011, 08:29 AM
1. Serial Number (partials are welcome, but entire numbers will help more)?
- AXxxxxxx
2. Firing pin on hammer or mounted in frame?
- Frame mounted
3. Safety rim on cylinder? PATENT APPLIED FOR; one patent number; two patent numbers?
- Safety Rim but no patent numbers
4. Cylinder release: 1" long lever on right side -or- small push button on left side of frame right in front of cylinder.
- Small push button
5. Location of Manufacturer's address - on top of barrel -or- on right side?
- on left side of frame
6. DA or SA?
- DA
7. Adjustable or fixed front sight? If fixed - soldered in slot or pinned in slot?
- Adjustable

http://www.lssdigital.com/lwpilot/999-1.jpg

1madss
August 16, 2011, 11:12 AM
1. Serial Number (partials are welcome, but entire numbers will help more)?
- AL54059 (Is that 1976?)
2. Firing pin on hammer or mounted in frame?
- Hammer
3. Safety rim on cylinder? PATENT APPLIED FOR; one patent number; two patent numbers?
- Safety Rim but no patent numbers
4. Cylinder release: 1" long lever on right side -or- small push button on left side of frame right in front of cylinder.
- Small push button
5. Location of Manufacturer's address - on top of barrel -or- on right side?
- on left side of frame
6. DA or SA?
- DA
7. Adjustable or fixed front sight? If fixed - soldered in slot or pinned in slot?
- Adjustable pinned


Unfortunately mine has been sitting locked up in the attic for 20+ years as does not look as nice as those already posted.

CajunBass - I just replaced my back site yesterday with a replica from Numrich. It was right at $11 shipped. Part Number 1287670 for the .090"

OldCavSoldier
August 16, 2011, 12:30 PM
I inherited mine from my father, who purchased it while in the Navy on a cruise. It has the ugliest grips one has ever put on a handgun, but, it shoots like a dream.

1. Serial Number (partials are welcome, but entire numbers will help more)?
- 4844X (When was it made? Late 40's? Early 50's?)
2. Firing pin on hammer or mounted in frame?
- Hammer mounted
3. Safety rim on cylinder? PATENT APPLIED FOR; one patent number; two patent numbers?
- Safety Rim but no patent numbers
4. Cylinder release: 1" long lever on right side -or- small push button on left side of frame right in front of cylinder.
- Small push button
5. Location of Manufacturer's address - on top of barrel -or- on right side?
- right side of barrel
6. DA or SA?
- DA
7. Adjustable or fixed front sight? If fixed - soldered in slot or pinned in slot?
- Adjustable

32 Magnum
August 16, 2011, 01:04 PM
chicharrones - thanks for contributing! Your piece was made in 1981 and is the 3rd Model with the transfer bar safety/ignition system. Nice looking gun - great pic. Thanks again.

351 WINCHESTER
August 16, 2011, 01:08 PM
Very nice 777 32magnum. I see your serial no. also has an U.

32 Magnum
August 16, 2011, 01:09 PM
1madss,
Thanks for contributing. Your piece was made in 1973. With the hammer mounted firing pin, it is a 2nd Model. This, to me is an important piece of information - the "conventional wisdom" has been that the transfer bar system is the defining difference between the 2nd and 3rd models and that this change occured in 1973. Your piece with a 1973 serial number helps to confirm that the change did occur sometime in 1973. All other s/ns with 'AL' prefix, that I have received so far, have the transfer bar system. GOOD INFO and just what I'm looking for - definition to the data base.
Thanks again.

32 Magnum
August 16, 2011, 01:15 PM
OldCavSoldier,
Thanks for your info. Looks, at least right now, as though your piece was made late 1936, early '37 - that's the best I can do - but data is coming in and with more numbers in that pre-1940 era - better definition should be available. It is a 1st Model, probably early 7th Variation (no patent dates on cylinder). Thanks, this one fits into another hole and helps fill it in.

32 Magnum
August 16, 2011, 01:28 PM
351 Winchester,
Thanks. All the 5 or 6 Model 777s that I've seen or been told about have the 'U' for ULTRA-SPORTSMAN. This model was only made for a short time (maybe 12 - 13 months) from early 1938 into '39, when it was replaced by an even more 'advanced' Single Action Target revolver - the Model 196 EUREKA. Walter Roper worked for H&R at the time and was instrumental in developing the designs of the Single Shot Target Model 195 USRA and both of the SA Revolvers. The 196 EUREKA is considered by many experts to be the quintessential target revolver ever made. I've not shot either my 777 or 196 - to dang valuable to risk breaking something or messing up the finish. There appears to have only been something less than 500 196s made - mostly on special order. I've seen serial numbers on the 777s go a bit over 1K - production of these seems to be less than 1100 to 1200??? Can't really tell without more s/n data and that's hard to come by.
147461
147460

Kiln
August 16, 2011, 03:12 PM
Don't know all the info but mine was an excellent shooter, super accurate and very reliable. The firing pin was on the hammer and the sights weren't adjustable I don't believe.

vanagon40
August 16, 2011, 05:37 PM
1. Serial Number (partials are welcome, but entire numbers will help more)? D29011
2. Firing pin on hammer or mounted in frame? Hammer
3. Safety rim on cylinder? PATENT APPLIED FOR; one patent number; two patent numbers? Two: PAT.1904730 and PAT.2034632
4. Cylinder release: 1" long lever on right side -or- small push button on left side of frame right in front of cylinder. 1" long lever on right side
5. Location of Manufacturer's address - on top of barrel -or- on right side? The top of the revolver is finished in a much duller finish than the rest of the revolver and is engraved as follows:
HARRINGTON & RICHARDSON ARMS CO.
WORCESTER, MASS. U.S.A.
6. DA or SA? DA
7. Adjustable or fixed front sight? If fixed - soldered in slot or pinned in slot? There is a screw at the end of the barrel, presumably to adjust the front sight.

Purchased two years ago from a pawn shop on line.

If fired VERY rapidly, the timing will be off and the revolver will misfire. Slower firing presents no problems. I think the defect is in the cylinder notches.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb215/vanagon40/HR002.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb215/vanagon40/HR005.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb215/vanagon40/Sportsman/Gator010.jpg

(Also, are you interested in information regarding my 1972 999?)

1madss
August 16, 2011, 06:07 PM
32 Magnum,

Glad I could contribute.

Y'all have motivated me to put up a pic. The glare seems to hide the pitting well :)
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc161/madavis5/Guns/101_0075-1.jpg

EHCRain10
August 17, 2011, 09:22 AM
1. Serial Number (partials are welcome, but entire numbers will help more)?
70520 any idea on the year?
2. Firing pin on hammer or mounted in frame?
Hammer
3. Safety rim on cylinder? PATENT APPLIED FOR; one patent number; two patent numbers?
Safety Rim but no Patent markings
4. Cylinder release: 1" long lever on right side -or- small push button on left side of frame right in front of cylinder.
small push button
5. Location of Manufacturer's address - on top of barrel -or- on right side?
Right Side
6. DA or SA?
DA
7. Adjustable or fixed front sight? If fixed - soldered in slot or pinned in slot?
Fixed by pin

32 Magnum
August 17, 2011, 03:14 PM
Vanagon40,
Thanks for your contribution - your SPORTSMAN 1st Model, 3rd Variation was made most likely in late 1934, based upon current info. It is one of those that is filling in one of the holes in the research. Thanks again.
Great pics - nice condition piece.
YES, I am interested in info on the 1972 piece, also. Does it have the "ventilated rib" w/cut throughs, or the "fluted" - milled grooves on the barrel?

32 Magnum
August 17, 2011, 03:18 PM
1madss,
Thanks for the pic - nice looking gun.

32 Magnum
August 17, 2011, 03:20 PM
EHCRain10,
Thanks for the contributing info on your 1st Model SPORTSMAN DOUBLE ACTION 6th Variation made in the 1937-38 period. Your gun is one of the first to fall into this hole, so I can't tell for sure if its '37 or '38 just yet. Time and more data will tell. Thanks, again.

vanagon40
August 17, 2011, 07:34 PM
Vanagon40,
Thanks for your contribution - your SPORTSMAN 1st Model, 3rd Variation was made most likely in late 1934, based upon current info. . . .

Jim, I recognize and acknowledge that you and Bill are the H&R experts and two years ago Bill also classified my SPORTSMAN as "most likely a 3rd variation manufactured 1933 or 1934." http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=66419

BUT, the two patent numbers on the cylinder perplexes me. I have read:
"Fifth Variation; two patent dates marked on cylinder (before there was only one)--1936 (after 3-17)-1937."

Also, I am perplexed as to how the patent number 2034632, which was issued on March 17, 1936, for the Rice grip, could be found on a revolver manufactured in 1934. I suppose it might be possible that a newer cylinder was placed on an older revolver, but my research has revealed at least one other person who has a Sportsman with an almost identical serial number (D prefix) and same patent numbers on the cylinder. Seems more likely we both would have revolvers with original parts than both have revolvers with swapped cylinders.

Check out the thread for serial number D26902 => http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117664 (I discount all the analysis posted, but accept the OP's description of his revolver).

32 Magnum
August 17, 2011, 09:56 PM
Vanagon,
Interesting question, but not without a logical answer.
First, concerning the thread link noted at the end of your post - there's been a lot of research done and a lot of information "discovered" and made public since 2004. Right around that time, Bill G. was putting together his "tentative" history of H&R. We had been working together since around late 1996 or early 1997 and my collection of hardware and his research of the soft ware (catalogues and company flyers, parts lists, etc.) was beginning to bear some good solid data. Well, Bill's history underwent at least three more re-writes - all of which I had the opportunity to "edit" and finally in 2005-2006 I sent sent him over 2200 digital pictures of pieces of "hardware" with most of those being detailed close-ups and comparison shots. I had the opportunity to review and do a final edit of the "publisher's copy" after Bill's death in Jan. and there still are some unanswered questions - that is what sparked me to begin this on-line quest for more info on the SPORTSMAN revolvers.
Now, as to your question. Two possibilities come readily to mind:
1. There should be three numbers stamped into the breech face of the cylinder and the star ejector. Those three numbers should match the last three digits of the serial number stamped into the bottom side of the topstrap (remove cylinder to see those.) That number should match the "real" serial number stamped into the front strap of the grip frame, visible behind the trigger guard. If there is any mismatches, it indicates that parts were swapped from another completed gun.
2. It apparently was common practice to send H&R firearms that were defective or broken or in need of updating, back to the factory to effect those services. If all the numbers match AND you have a later model cylinder - it is probable that the gun was sent in for a cylinder repair or replacement and the factory used the parts available at the time of return to effect the repair/replacement. I'm almost certain that the factory tech/smith, who would have replaced the cylinder would have stamped the last three digits of the frame serial number into the replacement parts. I KNOW for a fact that this was done with the Single Shot Target USRA Model 195 pistols. I have one that a REAL expert in H&R firearms (former QC employee and historian for H&R) has assessed as having made at least two trips back and possibly a third, for upgrading. A thought in favor of this solution is that with the introduction of HIGH SPEED .22 lr cartridges (all smokeless powder loads) in the early 1930s, an event that sparked the need for the safety rim on the cylinder of H&Rs and other "safety" features on other manufacturers' .22 revolver, resulted in many blown head cases. It is possible that the older cylinders would be swapped out for a newer cylinder in the interest of safety.
We know that the "major" manufacturers would do in-house repairs and replacements, it is inconceivable that the "minors" would not do the same. Just out of curiosity, remove the monogrip and look at the sides of the grip frame - do you see an X or asterisk (*) stamped into it on left or right side?
I'm waiting to hear about your serial number matches, before I go off on any other flights of fancy.
The least likely explanation, to my way of thinking, is that H&R used older, left over parts in newer production, mixing them - least likely because I think the demand for the SPORTSMAN grew very rapidly after its introduction and I doubt that many frames or barrel assemblies would have remained partially assembled or as loose parts in bins for those intervening years.
What do you think?

vanagon40
August 17, 2011, 10:00 PM
1. Serial Number (partials are welcome, but entire numbers will help more)? AJ74504
2. Firing pin on hammer or mounted in frame? Hammer
3. Safety rim on cylinder? Yes (I think so) PATENT APPLIED FOR; one patent number; two patent numbers? No patent information on cylinder
4. Cylinder release: 1" long lever on right side -or- small push button on left side of frame right in front of cylinder. small push button on left side
5. Location of Manufacturer's address - on top of barrel -or- on right side? No. “H&R INC. WORC. MASS. U.S.A.” on left side below cylinder.
6. DA or SA? DA
7. Adjustable or fixed front sight? If fixed - soldered in slot or pinned in slot? There is a screw at the end of the barrel, presumably to adjust the front sight.
Does it have the "ventilated rib" w/cut throughs, or the "fluted" - milled grooves on the barrel? Not sure. If you cannot tell from the photos, I will post more detailed photos.

Purchased FTF from a THR member. Had the typical broken plastic mainspring head that the seller failed to mention (maybe he had never shot the revolver, but seems unlikely). Despite the omission, I was still very happy with the revolver.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb215/vanagon40/Sportsman/999003.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb215/vanagon40/Sportsman/999004.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb215/vanagon40/Sportsman/Gator007.jpg

vanagon40
August 17, 2011, 10:16 PM
Jim,

Regarding the “1934" SPORTSMAN, the serial number stamped into the bottom side of the topstrap matches the “real” serial number stamped into the front strap of the grip frame. Detailed photos of the breech face of the cylinder were included in my first post.

EDIT:

Just read your post a little more closely. Damn, did not know Bill was dead.

Do not see an X or asterisk (*) stamped into it on left or right side. Does "W" "W" count?

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb215/vanagon40/Sportsman/176.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb215/vanagon40/Sportsman/177.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb215/vanagon40/Sportsman/Gator010.jpg

32 Magnum
August 17, 2011, 10:17 PM
Vanagon,
Thanks again. Noted and filed your info.
Your gun was made in 1972 and is a 2nd Model - last year of production before the introduction of the transfer bar safety/ignition system. That one has the "VENTILATED RIB" with cuts all the way through the barrel rib - three little windows to the other side.
The "fluted" or milled cuts do not go all the way through.

Regarding the "1934" - did a bit of editing of your pic - my old small screen doesn't show details well - a sure enough, there are the last three digits of the serial number on the cylinder face and star. I'm going with the return to factory and replacement theory. That's the one which makes most sense to me.
147557

vanagon40
August 17, 2011, 11:14 PM
32 Magnum,

Glad to assist with your research and I appreciate you providing me with some information and history on my revolvers. I think my 1934 SPORTSMAN actually looks a little better in person than in the photos, but it is still a little rough around the edges. The 1972 is pretty nice. I like them both and hope that one of my kids likes them after I'm gone.

They both provide strong competition to my K22.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb215/vanagon40/k-22.jpg

32 Magnum
August 18, 2011, 12:09 PM
Vanagon,
You're welcome.
The new cylinder/old frame phenomenon will need some study. With luck (maybe more pleading) I'll get enough data to help define what went on there or at least provide something better on which to guess. We may (read probably) never know exactly what H&R did - but guessing is sure fun. Kind of like archaelogy - find a buried thing-a-mabob and try to guess what it was used for and why. Research is FUN.
In the mean time, here's a couple pics of a very early 1st Mod. 1st Var. SPORTSMAN showing some of the features that inspired the questions I asked.

147572

147573

147574

BigEasy
August 18, 2011, 03:54 PM
Hi 32 Magnum:

Saw your post and started to see what I have. Found a H & R 940.
Don't know if this is in your area of research, but I will give you the following info.

1. Serial Number: AF73847.

2. Firing Pin: Firing Pin on Frame.

3. Safety Rim on Cylinder: Yes.

4. Cylinder Release: 1" lever on Left Side (swings out).

5. Location of Manufacturer's address: Manufacturer's initials and city/state
of production on left frame beneath the cylinder.

6. DA or SA: DA

7. Adjustable or Fixed Front Sight: Adjusable (Pinned).


Hope this helps your research.

Thanks,

P. S. This revolver has 6'' ventilated barrel.

BigEasy
August 18, 2011, 04:08 PM
Hi 32 Magnum:

Saw your post and started to see what I have. Found a H & R 940.
Don't know if this is in your area of research, but I will give you the following info.

1. Serial Number: AF73847.

2. Firing Pin: Firing Pin on Frame.

3. Safety Rim on Cylinder: Yes.

4. Cylinder Release: 1" lever on Left Side (swings out).

5. Location of Manufacturer's address: Manufacturer's initials and city/state
of production on left frame beneath the cylinder.

6. DA or SA: DA

7. Adjustable or Fixed Front Sight: Adjusable (Pinned).


Hope this helps your research.

Thanks,

Dan

32 Magnum
August 18, 2011, 04:54 PM
Dan,
Thanks for the info.
One thing - are you sure that the firing pin is located in the frame and not on the nose of the hammer? All else fits the regular pre 1973 configuration. If your gun has a frame mounted Firing pin - does it also have the transfer bar safety/ignition system?
Jim

32 Magnum
August 21, 2011, 05:22 PM
I need more data folks - it's been coming in pretty good so far, but there has to be lots more of the SPORTSMAN revolvers out there. Don't be bashful - tell me about your H&R 999 or 199.

Brumy
August 22, 2011, 07:12 PM
1 - L7360
2 - Firing pin on hammer
3 - Safety rim on cylinder; no patent markings
4 - Cylinder release push button on frame in front of cylinder
5 - Right side; left side: H & R "SPORTSMAN" (DOUBLE ACTION underneath)
6 - DA
7 - Adjustable front site.

One piece wrap-around walnut grip with screw in heel.

Brumy
August 22, 2011, 07:15 PM
Forgot one thing: Numbers 3 6 0 stamped on cylinder adjacent to safety rim

32 Magnum
August 22, 2011, 10:35 PM
Brumy,
Thanks for the info - your SPORTSMAN was made in 1951. It is a 1st Model 8th Variation - the end of the 1st Models with the "Rice" grip frame and one piece "monogrip". Good guns.

147822

MQP
August 23, 2011, 12:22 AM
Model Or Number: H&R Sportsman
Frame Size: Standard Sportsman
Barrel Length And Shape: Standard Sportsman
Caliber And Cylinder Capacity: .22 Long Rifle
Finish: Blued
Sights: ADJUSTABLE
Markings:

Top Of Barrel/Top Strap:
Top of barrel top line: *HARRINGTON&RICHARDSON ARMS CO.*
Top of barrel bottom line: *WORCESTER, MASS. U.S.A.*
Right Side Of Barrel:
Right barrel next to cylinder: 22 LONG RIFLE CTG.

Left Side Of Barrel:
Left Barrel flat top line: H. & R. "SPORTSMAN"*
Left Barrel flat bottom line: *SINGLE ACTION

Serial Number and Location: S17876 front of grip strap and bottom of top strap.
Bottom of Top Strap: S17876
Rear Of Cylinder: 876
Front Of Grip Strap: S17876
Bottom Of Butt: I did not take grips off.
Left Side Of Grip Strap Under Grips: I did not take grips off.
Automatic Cylinder Stop: Yes
Other Features And Comments:
On cylinder exterior flat top line: PAT. 1904730
On cylinder exterior flat bottom line: PAT. 2034632
On extractor star: 876

Bought new by Donald B. Peterson, M.D., about 1936, probably in Minneapolis MN.

32 Magnum
August 23, 2011, 04:25 PM
MQP,
Thanks for the info - I'm assuming, from where your serial number fits in - that your gun has the firing pin mounted on the hammer and that the cylinder release is on the right side of the frame???? CURRENTLY - it looks like this is a 4th Variation and was made in late 1936 or early 1937 - I need more data to nail down the dates on the Single Action pieces - not many out there and not much info coming in about them.
Thanks again.

MQP
August 24, 2011, 12:22 PM
32 Mag,
Thank you for your information.

"Yes" to both questions.
The firing pin is on the hammer and the cylinder release is on the right side of the frame.

In regard to dates:
This was a wedding gift from my father to my mother.
They were married on 23 Sep 1935.
To the best of my knowledge, my father had the revolver by May of 1937.

When I go to the range with .22 revolvers, I much prefer the Sportsman to my S&W K-22's.
The H&R is just as accurate and fits my hand a bit better than the S&W's.

MQP

32 Magnum
August 24, 2011, 02:54 PM
MQP - looking at the rather slim data base I've been able to develop for the SA 199 - the date of 1935 looks pretty darn good - I have two points each of which is a s/n in the 19K range that have tentative dates of 1936. One in the 17K range could very well be (and probably is) in the 1935 time period. The paucity of info on the 199 caused quite a bit of speculation on the part of Bill Goforth, when he was contemplating dates for the various known changes. Perhaps I'll get enough info to help solidfy the dating of this model.
Info, such as that you supplied, is very valuable to this type of research - since the production records for that time period (actually from 1986 back) are not available.
Thanks again!

MQP
August 27, 2011, 11:57 PM
32 Magnum,

I think we can narrow this down a bit.

I spoke to my brother who reminded me that the H&R was for protection as my parents drove the 2000 miles from Minneapolis to Gasquet, California where my father worked as a Civilian Conservation Corp physician.

My parents did not marry until my father graduated in June, 1935.
They knew that they were heading for California as soon as they were married.

Their marriage was 23 Sep 1935.
They left for northern California to start work in the CCC camp on Smith River in Gasquet as soon as they married.

My father most likely bought this H&R Sportsman between June and September 1935.

MQP

32 Magnum
August 28, 2011, 04:09 PM
MQP,
Thanks for the supporting evidence. I've logged it for date reference.

jamesjo
August 28, 2011, 06:48 PM
Jim,
Here is info for my pair of 1955 Sportsman.

http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg467/jimmyjoe/dscn16292.jpg

1. R53769
2. On hammer
3. Safety rim, yes, no patent #
4. left side
5. No address
6. DA
7. adj. sight


http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg467/jimmyjoe/dscn16282.jpg

1. R13666
2. On hammer
3. Safety rim, yes, no patent
4. left side
5. no address
6.DA
7. adj sight

Do you also want this info for my 777?
How about my 4 1980 999's?
If you are actively looking for this info, I can sure send it also!
Talk soon,
Jim

32 Magnum
August 29, 2011, 01:23 PM
Jim,
Thanks for the info on your two 1955s, logged into the data base.
Nice to see you posting again.
Jim

jamesjo
August 29, 2011, 04:05 PM
Mr. Hauff,
No, thank you!!
Still a little overwhelming to be home, with all the meds, equipment, and maintenance to keep up with.
But, it's great to be here, eating real food again.
Home cooking, and fresh fruits, and veggies is awesome!!

So, Do you want info for the AU Sportsman, and the Model 777 Sportsman or not?
Jim

32 Magnum
August 29, 2011, 11:25 PM
No need for the 777 - I'll log the AU if you don't mind Mr. Ritchie.

jamesjo
August 30, 2011, 03:05 AM
Post it tomorrow, no make that later today!

jamesjo
August 30, 2011, 11:40 AM
32 magnum,
Here's the info on my 1980 Sportsman pieces

6" Barrel

1. AU117458
2. Frame
3. Yes, No patent
4. Left
5. Left side, under cylinder
6. DA
7. Adjustable


6" Barrel

1. AU168128
2. Frame
3. Yes, No patent
4. Left
5. Left side, under cylinder
6. DA
7.Adjustable


4" Barrel

1. AU183392
2. Frame
3. Yes, No patent
4. Left
5. Left side under cylinder
6. DA
7. Adjustable

4" Barrel

1. AU082686
2. Frame
3. Yes, no patent
4. Left
5. Left side under cylinder
6. DA
7. Adjustable

All have fluted barrels, not ventilated.
I seem to remember seeing a 1979 model that had the fully ventilated barrel.
Can you give me a definite year they stopped fully ventilating the barrels, and went to the fluted barrel?
Thanks!
Jim

http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg467/jimmyjoe/pearls003.jpg

vanagon40
August 30, 2011, 11:40 AM
32 Magnum,

I think we can narrow this down a bit.

I spoke to my brother who reminded me that the H&R was for protection as my parents drove the 2000 miles from Minneapolis to Gasquet, California where my father worked as a Civilian Conservation Corp physician.

My parents did not marry until my father graduated in June, 1935.
They knew that they were heading for California as soon as they were married.

Their marriage was 23 Sep 1935.
They left for northern California to start work in the CCC camp on Smith River in Gasquet as soon as they married.

My father most likely bought this H&R Sportsman between June and September 1935.

MQP

I hate to throw another monkey wrench into this research, but this is another revolver presumably purchased in 1935 bearing patent number 2034632, which was not issued until March 17, 1936.

I just got off the phone with a friend who is a patent attorney and he assured me that patent numbers are not issued prior to the date of approval--or maybe a week earlier. In other words, H&R would not have known the patent number 2034632 prior to March 1936.

I have absolutely no knowledge of H&R firearms history, I am just confident that the cylinder on MQP's revolver was not manufactured until after March 17, 1936.

32 Magnum
August 30, 2011, 01:44 PM
Jamesjo,
Thanks for the info. Logged in - also - I'm not sure of the date/year when the "vented" rib gave way to the "fluted" rib. From the info I have so far it happened sometime between 1976 and 1980. I'm getting close as info comes in, but some of the info is incomplete and therefore frustrating until some one fills in the gaps. I have a potential source who may know when this happened, he already told me WHY the change occured. I'll let you know when/if I find out.

32 Magnum
August 30, 2011, 02:06 PM
Vanagon,
Thanks for the post and follow-up. THERE ARE NO MONKEYWRENCHS - simply/merely FACTS.
One of the reasons I'm concentrating my research on SPORTSMAN variations and asking the questions that I posted is due to inconsistencies and resulting confusion concerning years of manufacture. Not to sound snide - but "we" (meaning the late Bill Goforth who was compiling the "historical" data and applying years of manufacture to the series) are/were aware of the two patent date anomaly. Bill was attempting to provide dates based upon issuance of catalogues and I was helping by supplying pictures of actual examples. The confusion arises from the "assumed" production numbers/quantities noted based upon serial numbers and then applying serial number ranges to various variational changes noted. From the limited information that I'm beginning to accumulate, it appears that many of the "assumed" serial number ranges are incorrect. The earliest SPORTSMAN that I own (and also the lowest s/n that I've so far seen) with two patent dates is D23338. Again, "assuming" somewhat steady demand and production quantities seems to have skewed the logic. There are a couple verifiable dates to go along with variations: the first is October 1932 - which is the first month of production for the SPORTSMAN named revolvers; another is January 1, 1940 when the 'A' prefix was first used in the serial number; another is the March 17, 1936 PATENT DATE for #2034632.
It seems "we" miscalculated production quantities, therefore throwing the dating of serial number ranges out of kilter. It now seems that the SPORTSMAN took a couple years to "take off" in sales (not unreasonable considering it was a fairly expensive item initiated in the early and middle years of the GREAT DEPRESSION) - so only a few over 20K were made in the first 3 1/2 years of production and then over 70K more were produced after March of '36 up to Jan. '40 (a period of 3 3/4 years)- as the highest known serial numbers are close to 90,000 before the 'A' prefix starts to show up, . After the letter prefix system was initiated - the numerical portion of the s/n is merely the place holder of that particular handgun (independent of model) made during that year. Research is FUN!
I need more data, but what I'm seeing develop (not having access to Bill Goforth's research - his family has retained the bulk of it, I hope) is in line with what I posted above. I hate to re-research, but I have no recourse at this point and whatever I can find out, will make the picture much cleared for me and every other interested party.

Forgive me for seeming dense and a bit slow moving - but after 30+ years doing QA/QC and management type work in heavy industry, I'm not in the habit of jumping to conclusions with out concrete evidence - speculation is OK, but only if it can be substantiated with FACTS. It is only through people such as yourself and the other folks that have contributed info/data that my reseach can continue and perhaps reach some level of certainty.
Keep those "monkeywrenchs" coming.

jamesjo
August 30, 2011, 06:26 PM
Jim,
OK, If you can't tell me the when, please tell me the why!
I just seem to remember watching an auction awhile back, a 1979 model I think, and it was fully ventilated.
I will start watching to see if we can nail down the year for sure.
Jim

32 Magnum
August 30, 2011, 09:26 PM
Jim,
Unacceptable number of "curled" barrels during heat treating after machining process.

jamesjo
August 30, 2011, 11:30 PM
Scrap is always a buzz kill!
Thanks Jim!
Jim

SaxonPig
September 7, 2011, 09:07 PM
1. B1190 (I believe 1941 DoM).
2. Hammer
3. There is a raised rim around the outside edge of the cylinder. No visible patent numbers.
4. Rear sight lifts to unlatch cylinder.
5. Right side of barrel (Worchester, Mass).
6. DA
7. Adjustable for height. Rear is adjustable for windage.

PS: The last digits of serial are on the bottom of rear sight, the cylinder and on the ejector star.


http://www.fototime.com/E7A682FB2F73E94/standard.jpg

32 Magnum
September 8, 2011, 01:02 PM
SAXON PIG,
Thanks for the info. It's logged.
As you stated - it's a 1941 ('B' prefix) piece, 1st Model 7th Variation.
All the parts are as they should be.
The "cylinder release" on that variation is the small push button on the left side of the "quill" or cylinder rod tunnel, just in front of the cylinder itself.
Pushing in on that little button while the action is broken open allows the cylinder to "pop" off of the quill.
Thanks, again.

148770

SaxonPig
September 8, 2011, 01:17 PM
OK. I mistook breaking the action with dismounting the cylinder.

BTW- This thing shoots great. I would like to have one of the later models but wow, have they gotten pricey.

32 Magnum
September 8, 2011, 02:11 PM
Saxon,
From my experience (I own 33 Sportsman revolvers) shooting a couple of the early (pre WW2) vs the later (post 1952) - while both a great guns, in general when taken care of, the earlier ones are inherently more accurate and have "finer" actions and trigger pulls. H&R seemed to have taken more care with respect to fit and finish and the "special" rifling used back then in the pre WW2 era.
Here's a couple fairly early pieces:
148774

jamesjo
September 8, 2011, 04:29 PM
Jim,
I'm right on your tail!:rolleyes:
I have a grand total of 7 Sportsman pieces!

32 Magnum
September 9, 2011, 02:44 PM
jamesjo,
Suck it up and start buying MORE - LOL!

OldCavSoldier
September 10, 2011, 12:25 AM
Have you received any more details to help narrow down even further (1936 - 1937) the year of my Dad's Sportsman, ser # 4844X ?

jamesjo
September 10, 2011, 03:22 AM
jamesjo,
Suck it up and start buying MORE - LOL!
Yeah, I know.
I just need way too many AU pieces yet.
There are a couple more Sportsman that are of have to buy status though.
First is an " X " prefix model,I was born in 1961
2nd would be any of the Silver Sportsman models. ( There's this guy I know....)
Other than that, I probably won't be catching up any time soon!
Jim

32 Magnum
September 10, 2011, 12:37 PM
OldCavSoldier,
Your piece is beginning to look like 1935. Getting more info in and some of it is confusing because markings look to be somewhat inconsistent - probably a case of using "older" parts out of s/n order - not unusual. Still need more good data.

tightgroup tiger
September 10, 2011, 07:55 PM
I have a H&R 22 special from what I believe is the late 1920's
S/N 508060. It is built like the sportsman but has the 2 piece sawhandle grips.
It looks like the sportsman or the forerunner of it. 6" barrel, 7 shot, tip open.

I referenced the date from my blue book.

32 Magnum
September 11, 2011, 01:52 PM
tightgroup,
If your 22 SPECIAL is a 7 shot, it is either chambered in .22 rimfire (as stamped on the right side of the barrel) or .22 Winchester Rim Fire (stamped on right side as .22 W.R.F. and with W.R.F. stamped into rear face of the cylinder).
With that serial number it could be either one - if in .22 rf - it is a 1st Variation made between circa 1926 and '28. If in .22 WRF, it will be a 2nd Variation, made between 1928 and '30. If it is a WRF, it is a scarce version - need to know what you have for sure, based upon the cartridge markings.

148972

Geldarr
September 12, 2011, 06:21 PM
Here we go:

1)Serial #: 54XXX
2)Firing pin on hammer
3)Safety rim and 2 patent numbers on cylinder
4)Cylinder release is a small button on left side in front of cylinder
5)Address is on the right side of the barrel
6)Double action (and a really nice SA trigger pull, too!)
7)Adjustable front sight

I'll see if I can get a picture loaded up too!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-DHUw8Hxh7KY/Tm6FdS2TWyI/AAAAAAAAABU/OQcnWh6g6HU/s144/DSC08306.JPG

This is hands down, my favorite gun to shoot!

32 Magnum
September 12, 2011, 10:33 PM
Geldarr,
Thank you for the information. That serial number range is a bit indistinct at this time, need a bit more data - but your gun was made in either last half of 1936 or early 1937. It is a 1st Model 6th Variation.
You post that it has the safety rim with 2 Patent #s - that is good info.
Can you provide the numbers stamped into the breech face of the cylinder?

Concerning your statement that your SPORTSMAN is your favorite gun to shoot - I hear that alot, especially at the range with one of my SPORTSMAN pieces and when I lend it to someone, they always smile and tell me how much they enjoyed shooting it.

tightgroup tiger
September 15, 2011, 06:44 PM
32 Magnum

Mine is a 22RF version sorry to say. I took some pictures of it for you but when I tried to upload them to you the site wanted some URL address that I don't know anything about.

Sorry about that

Tightgroup Tiger

tightgroup tiger
September 15, 2011, 08:29 PM
32 magnum

Hopefully here are the pictures of my old H&R 7 shot 22 special. s/n 508060.
it says 22 rim fire on the side of the barrel

Hope this helps

WAID
September 16, 2011, 12:39 AM
Near as I can tell mine is about as new as they got. Finish and accuracy are good. The trigger sucks and the wood is plain ugly.

1. HH022XXX
2. Mounted in frame
3. The safety rim seems to be present but I see no patents anywhere on the gun.
4. Cylinder release: Small push button in front of the cylinder
5. Manufacturers address on left side of frame below cylinder
6. DA/SA
7. adjustable front site.

32 Magnum
September 16, 2011, 09:14 AM
tightgroup,
Thanks for the update, nice pics. You have a 1st Variation 22 SPECIAL made late in that variational period, probably mid 1928. We're not sure when the change to the 2nd Variation occurred, but, probably, as with most other H&R models there is not a "clear cut" line of demarcation - rather a gradual blending of earlier with later until all the earlier were gone.
Thanks again.

32 Magnum
September 16, 2011, 09:26 AM
WAID,
Your SPORTSMAN was made in 1994 - last examples seem to come from 1999, just before
Marlin purchased the H&R 1871 LLC assets.
When H&R 1871 reissued the SPORTSMAN models they made some changes - the most noticeable one being a shortening of the grip frame. Don't know why, but it probably had to do with production cost savings - just a guess on my parts. See pic. I own/have owned only a few of the post 1990 SPORTSMAN revolvers and have never taken any to the range - so I can't comment on the actions - but I do know that the grip panels were stained "hardwood" (looks to be birch to me) in the later years. Gunstock Birch is actually denser and heavier than Walnut - US DoD used tons of it to restock M1 Garands during the 1950's refitment programs. Thanks for your information - the most recent serial number I now have has a 'HL' prefix - 1997.
149255

tightgroup tiger
September 16, 2011, 03:57 PM
Waid,
You think the wood on yours is ugly, did you see the pics of mine right above your first posting.
We are talking butt ugly. We found it in my wifes great grandmother's falling down house when she passed. The holster fell apart when I picked it off the coat hook it was hanging on. It still shoots fairly decent but one chamber in the cylinder is not exactly in time so I marked it and don't load that chamber.
I don't shoot it any more, it just hangs in my gun safe now. It pains me just to look at it.

788Ham
September 16, 2011, 10:05 PM
32 Magnum,

I've got an "old" H&R revolver thats been in my family almost forever. Its a 9 shot .22, on left side of barrel it says" H&R 922", course no serial #. It has a 1/2 circle that pushes in, in front of cylinder on frame, after pushing this 1/2 circle in, one can pull out the cylinder rod, which allows the cylinder to be removed to unload and reload the cylinder. Any ideas as to age? It has the typical H&R grip style. It still shoots good, I can't hit anything with it, believe the barrel is shot out. Thanks

303tom
September 16, 2011, 10:48 PM
149303

149304

788Ham
September 16, 2011, 10:54 PM
303tom,

No, its even older than the bottom revolver Tom. Mine has an octagonal barrel, something I forgot to mention previously.

32 Magnum
September 17, 2011, 01:13 PM
788Ham,
Your Model 922 is a 1st Model and either a 1st, 2nd or 3rd Variation - with the octagonal barrel - so it was made some time between 1926-27 and 1937. If you provide a little more information I can nail it down to which variation it is and closer on the year of manufacture.
Easiest way would be to provide the serial number or post a pic. The serial number should be on the front strap of the grip frame - if not there it can be found on the left side of the grip frame under the grip panel - if not there, someone removed it. All H&R handguns were numbered from the 1870s until 1999.
149337

149339

149340

303tom
September 17, 2011, 02:50 PM
303tom,

No, its even older than the bottom revolver Tom. Mine has an octagonal barrel, something I forgot to mention previously.
NO, Those are two of the three 922`s that I own, I should wrote something, trying to do too many things at one time.

BigEasy
September 17, 2011, 04:58 PM
Hi Jim:

Sorry in my slow response to your questions on my post of 8/16/11 concerning my H & R revolver.

1. The Serial # should be "AP 73847" not the one I posted previously.
(My eyes are not what they used to be.)

2. The revolver has the firing pin on the frame and a transfer bar safety.

Hope this helps.

If you have any questions let me know.

Dan

788Ham
September 17, 2011, 07:31 PM
32 Magnum,
Thanks for getting back, you've got me really excited now. Its the same revolver you have marked 136 335.

Number on grip frame: 121 562
Cylinder stamp: 62
Humped top strap, but worn almost off

I haven't anyway to post pic, sorry! Hope to hear back soon!!

32 Magnum
September 19, 2011, 12:59 PM
788Ham,
Thanks for the follow-up.
You have a 1st Model 1st Variation Model 922 with the original grip panels (humped at top). Your piece was made sometime between 1927 and 1929. The Model 922 grew out of the Model 1904, large solid frame - and apparently the serial numbers of both Models were intertwined during the production spans (1904 - circa 1905 to 1942; 922 - circa 1927 - 1952 for 1st Model, 2nd Model 1953 - 1986.) After 1940, H&R began adding a letter prefix indicating year of manufacture. At that time, the numerical part of the s/n was merely a "place holder" indicating the sequence of production of all handguns during that year.
Your gun has a fairly high in the observed range serial number - so I'd ESTIMATE it was made in 1928. It was made to handle ONLY standard velocity cartridges. The change over to handle the, then, High Speed cartridges didn't occur until 1932-33 time period. If your gun is in safe condition to shoot, I recommend using only standard, sub-sonic or no powder loads to preserve it and you.
Hope this helps, any other questions please ask.

788Ham
September 19, 2011, 01:52 PM
32 Magnum,
Thanks for your help! My Pop had gotten it from someone years ago, had used it until the hammer spring broke, then went into a drawer. It was tossed into the trash, which I found and rescued, Pop took it to a smithy and had a new spring made, it was shot some, back in the 60's no high pressure loads available. It now sits in my safe, have a few other .22 pistol/revolvers to take its place. I just saw your thread and was interested, truly appreciate your help! Glad to know I rescued an old timer.

32 Magnum
September 19, 2011, 10:01 PM
788,
You're welcome. Glad to help out. Nice save.

love22s
September 23, 2011, 10:45 AM
1. Serial Number 986 (STAMPED ON GRIP, CYLINDER AND EJECTOR)
2. Firing pin on hammer or mounted in frame? MOUNTED IN FRAME
3. Safety rim on cylinder? NOT SURE WHAT THIS IS...IF IT MEANS THAT THERE IS A CYLINDRICAL RIM ON THE FACE OF THE CYLINDER SO THE CARTRIDGE BASE IS PROTECTED BY THE RIM...MINE HAS THIS RIM.
PATENT APPLIED FOR; ONLY THAT STATEMENT...NO ACTUAL PATENT # CITED.
4. Cylinder release: 1" LONG LEVER ON THE RIGHT SIDE
5. Location of Manufacturer's address - on top of barrel "WORCESTER, MASS U.S.A."
6. DA
7. Adjustable or fixed front sight? FIXED, PINNED IN SLOT

My son and I very much enjoyed shooting this gun, but then found out it is a pretty early model and one day when shooting it, the firing pin broke. I am a mechanical engineer, so I machined a new one to match the old one, but I have since decided to stop shooting it. I do not want to destroy an early model...and I am seriously thinking of selling it to someone who is looking for an early model and get a different .22 revolver that I won't be afraid to shoot for fear of damaging a "special" gun.

32 Magnum
September 23, 2011, 07:14 PM
love22s,
Thanks for the info - but - I already have a s/n 986 listed?????? Did you respond to my request on another site? What's a bit strange is that the "other" 986 has a smooth faced (non safety rimmed cylinder) and is not marked as patent applied for - and that is the way it should be based upon the s/n's clustered around it.
What I think you need to do is remove the cylinder and check under the top strap - the REAL serial number will be found there. Let me know what you find. I'll bet there's a 2 in front of the 936????

love22s
September 23, 2011, 08:57 PM
Hello 32 Magnum,
I did reply to a similar question on a different site. I figured it was the same person requesting information here, but all it took was a cut/paste to get the identical response from me...so I did it.

However, on both responses, I said that I have the "safety rim" but, I am assuming that this is the rim on the outer face of the cylinder where cartridges are inserted/ejected...~2.5mm wide and ~1mm deep. If you look at vanagon40's post (#22 on this thread) he has a few pictures...the last one is a face shot of the cylinder where cartridges are inserted/ejected. Is that outer metal ring on the cylinder the "safety rim" you are asking about...because mine definitely has it.

My cylinder does say "Patent applied for" and cites no patent #.

There are 5 markings of SNs on the gun...one under the top strap (as you said), one on the cylinder, one on the ejector, one on the front face of the grip and one on the left side of grip (if the wood grip is removed). All of these state 986.

It is interesting that you said 986 twice in the top of your response, then 936 in the bottom...but I assure you, mine is 986, as if you turn it upside down, it still says 986.

So, a bit of a mystery here...

But, mysterys can be solved!!

Todd

32 Magnum
September 24, 2011, 12:20 PM
Todd,
Thanks for the clarification - if you provided the answers to the same questions on another site, it was I who posted them.
For some reason I had your 986 (936 was a WA typo) with a smooth, non-rimmed cylinder face, the manufacturer's address on the right side of the barrel, no patent # nor applied for and a non-pinned sight. The brain is an awful thing to waste - so I'm assuming I got your serial number mixed with another's and put the wrong info in my data base. ??????
You have proven the serial number from those 5 locations - no doubt about that.
I have corrected my records.

Here's pics of the early front sight arrangements:

149753

149755

Goody3086
November 27, 2011, 02:45 PM
I don't know if you're still collecting these are not. But I picked one up yesterday for a good price as it is non funtional presently. In looking for the part that I need I ran across this trhead. I still need the part if anyone knows where to obtain, Numrich lists ity but is out of stock. The part I need is the ejector star/ring. The cylinder will not advance in either single or double action mode. The hand does appear to be working, with good tension. Anyway, to the questions

1) K381
2) Hammer
3) Rimmed Cylinder ( don't see any patent info on cylinder)
4) Small push button
5) Right side of barrel
6) Double Action
7) Front sight pinned, adjustable?

32 Magnum
November 28, 2011, 12:26 PM
Goody,
Yep, I'm still collecting data. Your gun was made in 1950, it's a 2nd Model and all the info indicates it is the "standard" model with adjustable front sight (height adjustment screw in front of barrel rib). Thanks for the info.
See your question in the other forum - I provided a couple potential sources for parts.

cemorse
November 28, 2011, 09:08 PM
Jim, here are 2 more 999's:
1) R55555 6" barrel
2) Hammer
3) Yes
4) Small button on left of frame
5) None
6) DA
7) Adjustable

1) HJ008535 4" barrel
2) Frame
3) Yes
4) Small button on left of frame
5) Left side of frame
6) DA
7) Adjustable

Hope this helps,
Charlie

32 Magnum
November 29, 2011, 03:52 PM
Charlie,
Thanks for the into - logged it into my data base.
1. R = 1955. It is a 2nd Model 1st Variation - all attributes are standard.

2. HJ = 1995. This is one of the "resurrected" H&R 1871, Inc. SPORTSMAN
revolvers. I'm guessing that we should call this the 4th Model
since the length of the grip frame was changed/shortened.
Compare your 'R' with your 'HJ' - the grip frame should be
about 3/4" shorter - taking different grip panels. 4" barrels
are much more prevalent in these later examples.

153711

cemorse
November 29, 2011, 06:43 PM
Jim,
Thank you for pointing out the differences in the frames. Handling the two I noticed that the R felt larger in my hand. Comparing them side by side highlights the frame difference. I bought the R a week ago in a private sale. It's an excellent shooter. The HJ is my brother's. He got it at a LGS two or three years ago. It looked like it had been fired very little if at all. However, he told me that it would not cock on single action reliably. I flushed the trigger and hammer out with CLP and now it works as it should. I suspect there was dried oil or grease interfering with the cocking notches. These really are nice guns.
Charlie

32 Magnum
November 30, 2011, 08:22 PM
Charlie,
Thanks for the follow-up.
Enjoy your SPORTSMAN revolvers - last of a breed.

.45Guy
December 14, 2011, 07:01 PM
1. 89606
2. Hammer
3. Safety rim PAT 1904, PAT 2034
4. small button
5. right side
6. DA
7. Adjustable.

Barrel solid and marked, "H&R SPORTSMAN" DOUBLE ACTION.
Grips are wood grain plastic.

32 Magnum
December 15, 2011, 08:59 AM
.45 Guy,
Thanks for the info, logged and saved.
Your SPORTSMAN is a 1st Model, 6th Variation and has one of the highest non-letter prefixed serial numbers that I have recorded. I've learned that H&R often carried serial numbers from one year into the next due to fiscal year changes and also carry over of previously serialed frames - SO - I'm of the opinion that your gun was made in very late 1939 or very early 1940 before the 'A' letter code year indicator was in common use. It has all the characteristics of the 6th Variation which carried over into the 7th Var. which in essence was demarked by the use of those year indicating letter prefixes. The plastic/Nylon monogrips begin to be seen in the early 1940 marked pieces - so that leads me to believe what I wrote concerning the "carry over" may be correct for your gun. There is also the possibility that your gun was assembled up to a year or two latter than that, from a 1939 made frame.
Thanks again for the data point.

Rem.222
December 15, 2011, 10:27 PM
S/n 61839
Hammer
One patent on cylinder
Small button on left.
Address on left side of barrel
DA
Adjustable

32 Magnum
December 16, 2011, 04:32 PM
Rem.222,
Thanks for the info. Added to my data base.
Here's what I see about your gun: 1st Model 6th Variation, made in 1937. The cylinder is from an earlier batch made in 1933 or 34 - BUT is original to your gun. By '37 the newly made cylinders were being stamped with 2 Patent numbers.

.45Guy
December 16, 2011, 08:52 PM
Thanks for the information yet again sir. I picked this one up super cheap along with a couple others at a local chain store. They never know how to price their older items.

Rem.222
December 17, 2011, 02:24 PM
Thanks that makes mine 74 yrs old. Now to find a period holster, 4in &/or a 22 special. A collector may be born. lol

32 Magnum
December 18, 2011, 12:37 PM
.45 Guy
Rem.222

Glad to help out. Thanks for thanking.
MERRYCHRISTMAS

mashaffer
December 20, 2011, 08:34 PM
Interesting thread. Here is the dope on my Dad's worn out 6" barrel specimin.


1. Serial Number (partials are welcome, but entire numbers will help more)?
678xx. The last three digits are also on the back face of the cylinder but I used the blur tool in GIMP to obliterate in the picture. Full number is stamped on the left side of the frame under the grip and on the front strap.

2. Firing pin on hammer or mounted in frame?

Hammer mounted rebounding hammer. Thus only 8 rounds in the cylinder.

3. Safety rim on cylinder? PATENT APPLIED FOR; one patent number; two patent numbers?

There is a rim around the cylinder at the back so that the cartridge heads are not visible through the side. I presume that is the safety rim. I didn't see any patent numbers anywhere.

4. Cylinder release: 1" long lever on right side -or- small push button on left side of frame right in front of cylinder.

small square button.

5. Location of Manufacturer's address - on top of barrel -or- on right side?

Right Side

6. DA or SA?

DA, even says so on the left side of the barrel.

7. Adjustable or fixed front sight? If fixed - soldered in slot or pinned in slot?

Fixed, pinned.

Neat gun. I wish it were possible to fix the sloppy cylinder (worn cylinder and base pin) for something close to what the gun was worth. Although I would prefer a 4" barrel. It would also be neat to get a second grip and rasp it down to sort of a bird's head shape.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=155121&stc=1&d=1324431084[/img

[img]http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=155122&stc=1&d=1324431084

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=155123&stc=1&d=1324431084

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=155124&stc=1&d=1324431084

mike

32 Magnum
December 21, 2011, 12:35 PM
MASHAFFER,
Thanks for the info on your SPORTSMAN - info logged in data file.
From your description - your gun is a 1st Model 6th Variation, made in (probably) late 1937. The lack of PATENT numbers stamped into the cylinder is a feature that shows up occasionally in that series - why? I don't know. Most others show 2 PATENT numbers stamped one above the other into a space between flutes. It may mean that the frame was made in the time specified, but not assembled into a complete firearms until later. This possibility is becoming more likely as I include more data into the research.
Good luck in getting yours back up to 'spec'.
Merry Christmas

mashaffer
December 21, 2011, 10:16 PM
Thanks 32, unfortunately it appears that Numrich no longer has cylinders. They do have 6" barrels (no 4" left though). I am afraid that the bearing surfaces on both are hopelessly worn. In desperation I tried building the surfaces on the barrel assembly up with JB weld and sanding it back to size once but once the outer most surface was reduced to the point that it passed the entrance of the cylinder it was so small that it still flopped around inside the cylinder when fully installed. Apparently the surface inside the cylinder at the rear is more worn than at the front. So major reworking of the existing parts would seem to be necessary in order to make it work.

mike

golanglobus
January 25, 2012, 05:35 PM
1. SN 49209, think it's all matching but can't read numbers on ejector, needs a good cleaning.
2. Firing pin on hammer.
3. Safety rim present, two patent numbers.
4. Small push button.
5. Worcester, MA, right side.
6. DA
7. Adjustable

Very good condition, paid ~$170 after sales tax.

Good luck with your research,
Eric

32 Magnum
January 28, 2012, 09:43 AM
golanglobus,
Thanks for the data. I've entered it into my data base.
Your SPORTSMAN has all the characteristics of the 1st Model 6th Variation and the frame was most likely made in 1937. The 6th Variation is quickly becoming the most commonly seen. It appears that several tens of thousands of numbered frames and/or completed guns were made in the periond 1934 - 38. Since this time period is during the height of the GREAT DEPRESSION and the SPORTSMAN was one of the highest cost revolvers in H&R's line - I'm finding it difficult to understand how so many would have been sold during that time. The answer seems to be that many were built and then stockpiled in warehouse and sold as needed from inventory. I have data on one piece with a 30K serial number probably made in 1933-34 - 35 that was inspected and cleared for sale (by factory tag) in March of 1944.
Nice gun, thanks for sharing.

Old Fuff
January 28, 2012, 10:41 AM
During the (first) Great Depression many gun manufacturers, including Colt & Smith & Wesson, over produced both parts and completed guns because they did not want to lose they're workers and the skills they represented. Without them they couldn't produce anything, as sometimes they didn't even have a complete set of blueprints of their most popular models. Had it not been for World War Two they would have probably gone bankrupt.

During the war all of these companies produced guns using previously made parts, and the ability to make these guns greatly added to the supply at a time of desperate need. There was no commercial market. Anything that was produced went to either the military services or the Defense Supply Corporation (DSC).

What was left after the war, which wasn’t much, was quickly sold off to meet post-war demand.

C-Fish
February 1, 2012, 03:23 PM
Just put a 1957 Sportsman on Layaway (it's been a big gun month). :uhoh:


Serial starts with a T. Firing pin on hammer. Overall in excellent shape. Should have in the next few weeks...

Looks exactly like this gun (not my photo) down to the jeweled hammer.

http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg467/jimmyjoe/dscn16292.jpg

jamesjo
February 1, 2012, 06:29 PM
Cfish,
I THOUGHT I recognized that pic!!
That is a 1955 Model.
Looks much better now that I reblued it.
Does yours have the small thumbrest grip?
post some pics when you get it in your hands!!
Jim

Ralph G. Briscoe
February 1, 2012, 11:10 PM
"It has become apparent, recently, that there are some holes in the H&R SPORTSMAN history and development both in the Double Action 999 and the Single Action 199. More research is warranted to fill in those holes. IF you own any H&R SPORTSMAN and would like to contribute to the research, I would appreciate the following information (pics would be a great asset):"

1. Serial Number (partials are welcome, but entire numbers will help more)?
B3089
2. Firing pin on hammer or mounted in frame?
Hammer
3. Safety rim on cylinder? PATENT APPLIED FOR; one patent number; two patent numbers? >>Safety rim
4. Cylinder release: 1" long lever on right side -or- small push button on left side of frame right in front of cylinder. >> Small push button.
5. Location of Manufacturer's address - on top of barrel -or- on right side?
6. DA or SA? >>Rt. side
7. Adjustable or fixed front sight? If fixed - soldered in slot or pinned in slot? >>adjustable

Hope this is helpful. Glad you're doing this research. My Sportsman belonged to a WWI veteran I was privileged to know in his later years. I've always wondered about the age of the gun. He obviously thought highly of it--it's in close to new condition.

C-Fish
February 1, 2012, 11:26 PM
Yes, I did steal the pic from the interwebs...

Mine does have the thumbrest grips.

Pics to follow in the coming weeks (spent WAY to much since Christmas on firearms).

jamesjo
February 2, 2012, 08:45 AM
That's why the pics are out there, I like seeing them posted!
I do need to update that one though.....
Jim

Andy4802
February 2, 2012, 11:22 AM
Hi 32Mag,

I came upon your thread while doing some of my own research on the 'net regarding my new-to-me H&R revolver. Looks like a great forum so I decided to join and I'll start by contributing to your thread.

1. Serial Number S16797
2. Firing pin on hammer
3. Safety rim on cylinder? If my understanding of what constitutes a safety rim is correct, then yes (I assume it is the protruding lip or rim around the edge of the cylinder. There are no patent markings on the cyl.
4. Cylinder release: 1" long lever on right side
5. Location of Manufacturer's address - on top of barrel
6. Single Action
7. Fixed / pinned front sight.

I picked this little beauty up for 69$. It is functional, however the ejector doesnt work and the cylinder does not index properly. The ejector can be pushed out by hand when the cylinder is off the gun, and the spring seems good. The cylinder can also be indexed manually and does "click" into place properly in all 9 positions. I suspect a good cleaning may solve both issues but I am also open to suggestions.

pics:

http://i513.photobucket.com/albums/t340/Andy4802/guns/Picture010-1.jpg

http://i513.photobucket.com/albums/t340/Andy4802/guns/Picture009-1.jpg

http://i513.photobucket.com/albums/t340/Andy4802/guns/Picture008.jpg

http://i513.photobucket.com/albums/t340/Andy4802/guns/Picture007.jpg

http://i513.photobucket.com/albums/t340/Andy4802/guns/Picture011-1.jpg

32 Magnum
February 2, 2012, 01:21 PM
Andy,
Welcome to the forum.
You have a SINGLE ACTION SPORTSMAN Model 199. From the attributes, it's a 4th Variation made between 1937 and 1941. The "Safety Rim" is, indeed, the raised rim around the back end of the cylinder - added to prevent metal and gas escape when a case head separated on the old Hi Velocity smokeless .22lr loads back in the early 1930s.
The problems you're experiencing are "sometimes" correctible simply by soaking the gun in good quality gun oil and then properly cleaning all the gunk out of the mechanisms. If that doesn't do it - then you need parts and a gunsmith, if you're not up to repairing these old fellers. Make sure you clean-out INSIDE the quill - use a cotton swab, but make sure you get all the cotton out of there after cleaning - I've been there and done that. The gun shows a lot of finish wear and staining. A good cleaning with FLITZ or METALGLO lightly abrasive past polish will brighten it up a bit. Make sure you follow the directions and use a very soft (flannel if you have it) rag and light pressure during use.
Thanks for the information, I've added it to my research data base.

Picture shows cylinder from one made close to yours with 2 Patent numbers.

158172

158173

Andy4802
February 2, 2012, 03:11 PM
Thanks for the great info!

C-Fish
February 3, 2012, 05:15 PM
Picked up my Sportsman today (couldn't hold out any longer).

Spent some time cleaning her up.

Previous owner had "slathered" white paint on the front sight and red all over the rear. Had to remove the sight blade to get all of the paint off.
Little bit of rust on the left underside of barrel, other than that she looks almost new.

I'm happy, she cleaned up real nice for being 55 years old...

1. Serial Number: T3160, '160' on cylinder and extractor.
2. Firing pin on hammer.
3. Safety rim on cylinder. No patent number(s).
4. Cylinder release: small push button on left side of frame right in front of cylinder.
5. Location of Manufacturer's address - No address at all.
6. DA
7. Adjustable front sight.

http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad14/C-Fish/7e1f388d.jpg
http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/ad14/C-Fish/a8b23b70.jpg



This same info is posted on Gun Collectors Forum

jamesjo
February 3, 2012, 10:24 PM
C-fish,

Cleaned up nice!

32 Magnum
February 4, 2012, 10:51 AM
Andy,
You're very welcome. Thanks for thanking.

32 Magnum
February 4, 2012, 11:03 AM
C-Fish,
Thanks for the data - I've recorded it - yours is the first 'T' prefix that I have logged...
Looks like H&R skipped putting their address on handguns for a couple years. I have yours and a 'U' prefix that have no address stamp.

32 Magnum
February 4, 2012, 11:07 AM
Ralph G. Briscoe,
Thanks for the info - I have logged it into my data base.
Your gun is a 1st Model 7th Variation made in 1941 - the last year of regular production before WW2 - when production was greatly slowed with only a very few assembled from parts on hand. Honor the SPORTSMAN in memory of your friend. In near new condition - pieces from that era will top out near $400 RETAIL in today's market.
Thanks for sharing and thanks for thanking.

Gordon
February 4, 2012, 01:38 PM
1. Serial Number (partials are welcome, but entire numbers will help more)?
AS38286
2. Firing pin on hammer or mounted in frame?
Frame mounted
3. Safety rim on cylinder? PATENT APPLIED FOR; one patent number; two patent numbers?
Safety rim No patent #
4. Cylinder release: 1" long lever on right side -or- small push button on left side of frame right in front of cylinder.
Small "button" on rt. front
5. Location of Manufacturer's address - on top of barrel -or- on right side?
Rt side ,Gardner Mass.
6. DA or SA?
BOTH!
7. Adjustable or fixed front sight? If fixed - soldered in slot or pinned in slot?
Adj front pinned pivot front end screw

This fine gun was purchased by me recently for less than $300 and appears as new with slight muzzle blue wear from holstering. It Has an 11 pound DA trigger pull and a 7 pound SA pull but I do good plinking work with it. I shoot mostly CB longs and have sighted it in at 50' with Remington Sub Sonic Low Noise HP ammo. When I rested it it got 1" groups at that range, nice to have those adj sights but they are pretty well centered indicating this gun is well put together, The polish job on it is superb and the walnut and checkering are better than what S&W currently produces.It has a nicely done pierced thru vent rib. The machining in the frame opening and around the latch and cylinder is excellent. I flushed this gun in an ultra sonic tank to pull out the old old gunk and relubed it with non gumming gun oil. I must admit I like this gun better than my S&W or Colt .22s for around the yard plinking fun and I intend to wear it down (with careful handling and maintence of course ! ;) ) during my remaining lifetime. Thanks for your info on it.

32 Magnum
February 5, 2012, 01:25 PM
Gordon,
Your SPORTSMAN is a 3rd Model (with transfer bar ignition/safety system) made in 1978.
I has all the "standard" features for that model. I'm surprised that the SA and DA trigger weights are that high, but I don't have as much experience shooting the "newer" pieces as I do the older 1930's pieces - which typically have about and 8# DA and around 2 - 2 1/2# SA pull. Your description of the fit and finish is typical for the post 1952 Sportsman examples. The accuracy you have achieved is pretty darn good - I've found mine to surpass my S&W M63 with 4" bbl.
Paying less than $300 in today's RETAIL market is a bonus. Most that I see (I do regular pricing checks on all H&R firearms for the "BLUE BOOK" so I stay pretty fresh with the averag pricing) sell closer to or over $400. The "market" has caught the SPORTSMAN bug. A couple weeks ago - an after market Nickel plated SPORTSMAN, with a bit of hyperbole thrown into the description - sold for over $1200. In 2011, several NIB examples from the same time period as your sold between $600 and $1000 - yep, that's not a typo - blew my socks off.
Good luck with your gun - enjoy.

Here's a couple pics of pieces from collection made slightly before and after yours - for comparison or for general info for those who haven't seen one.
Note that the 1972 example was made prior to the Transer bar ignition safety system (1973) and the hammer is a bit different.
158423

158424

LongRiderWill
February 8, 2012, 08:25 PM
Hey - I have picked up a couple of H&R Revolvers and I was hoping to get some information from you on the Sportsman. There are 2 Revolvers pictured.

I was told that the 922 is from 1927, it works great and is very serviceable. The 922 also has a saw handle, it is very comfortable to shoot.

The 999 Sportsman is a recent find. I cleaned it up and it also works flawlessly and is very accurate. It seems to have some kind of optional grip on it, it is very comfortable to shoot also.

I was wondering if you could date the Sportsman for me?
Here is the info I have on the Sportsman:

1. Serial Number D824X
2. Firing pin on mounted in frame
3. Safety rim on cylinder? Yes PATENT APPLIED FOR; one patent number; 1904730
4. Cylinder release: 1" long lever on right side
5. Location of Manufacturer's address - on top of barrel
6. DA also works in SA
7. Adjustable front sight

32 Magnum
February 9, 2012, 12:47 PM
Hey LongRiderWill,
Welcome to the forum.
THE 922 - if the grips are original to the gun - there maybe the serial number from the gun stamped into the back of the panels - it is definitely a 1st Model - made between circa 1927 and 1930. I could tell better if you provide the serial number. Otherwise a very nice condition example.

THE SPORTSMAN - with s/n D824X it is also an early First Model DOUBLE ACTION SPORTSMAN 2nd Variation, it was made shortly after March of 1933. This is the first one that I've seen or have data on - that has both "PATENT APPLIED FOR" and PAT. NO. 1904730 on the cylinder!!! The grip on the gun is SCARCE in itself. It is the #3 type with the top extention. At the time this gun was made, H&R offered 5 different grip types interchangable for the Model Single Shot Target Pistol USRA, the Model 199 SA SPORTSMAN and the Model 999 Double Action. Those mono-grips will also fit the post 1930 Model 922 with the Rice type grip frame. Both are very nice examples.
With your permisssion I would like to add the pic of the SPORTSMAN with the #3 grip to my reference file.

gjamison
February 9, 2012, 02:16 PM
had this for sometime now and thinking of selling. serial number is D21952 also firing pin is not on the hammer. grips i think are original and the box is numbered. don't know alot about these gun's.
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll103/toto54/001-1.jpg
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll103/toto54/002-1.jpg
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll103/toto54/003-1.jpg
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll103/toto54/004-1.jpg
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll103/toto54/005-2.jpg

32 Magnum
February 10, 2012, 12:03 PM
gjamison,
Your SPORTSMAN is a 1st Model 3rd Variation and until I get a bit more info on the 20K s/n range - was most likely made in mid to late 1934. It has most of the attributes found on that variation. QUESTIONS - it should have a raised rim around the back face of the cylinder, does it? Is there any stampings on the outside of the cylinder, between two flutes, with PATENT No.s or PATENT applied for? Is the top rib of the barrel stamped with Manufacturer's name and address?
Your pictures are EXCELLENT and the gun appears to be in Low EXCELLENT condition - there are a couple scratches here and there - esp. the screw driver skid mark next to the frame bolt. BOX appears original for that time period. Grip is H&R's #5 "Free pistol" mono-grip. All-in-all a very nice combo. Thanks for sharing.

sparepartsdave
February 19, 2012, 08:25 PM
just stumbled on this site while researching my Sportsman,
serial number X3741x
firing pin mounted on hammer
safety rim on cylinder
cylinder release on left side, small button, real small
"H&R Sportsman" "Double Action" on left side of the barrel
company name and address on right side, no patent markings anywhere
adjustable front(elevation) and rear sights
Double and single action

which brings me to the reason I was researching this gun, the single action sear was broken when I got it, I ordered a replacement from Numerichs, the replacement did not have the recess for the sear spring, did I get the correct part, or does this part need to be finished by drilling the recess for the spring?
Thanks

Flynnstone63
March 22, 2012, 07:42 PM
Would greatly appreciate any info you could give on mine.

Serial No. D232xx
Pin on Hammer
Safety rim, Yes
2 Patent Numbers
Release, Long Lever on right
Address on top of barrel
Double Action
Adjustable front sight

Thanks

32 Magnum
March 23, 2012, 11:18 AM
Sparepartsdave,
Thanks for the info. I apologize for the delay in responding - been a bit on the 'sick' side lately with a couple days here and there in the hospital - so, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it - here's what I have on your gun:
It was made in 1961 and is a 2nd MODEL. It has all the usual attributes for that year and model....
I believe your problem with the part stems from the fact that Numrich has a fairly large supply of parts all classified generically as Sportsman parts. There are at least 4 different recognized models and within the 1st Model there are at least 7 different variations. Many of the models and variations involved cosmetic as well as internal changes to lock-work and mechanicals. The part you received most likely was not the one made for your particular piece. Your best bet is to contact them by land-line and describe what you need. If you have the broken part - they may ask you to send it to them so they can match from their inventory. As to modification of ANY parts on any of these guns, I am not qualified nor sufficiently skilled to advise. Good luck - and thanks again for the info - I have logged it into my data base - yours is the 1st 'X' prefix piece that I have logged. One question for you - is your barrel smooth and "slab sided" or is it vented through the top rib?

32 Magnum
March 23, 2012, 11:23 AM
Flynnstone63,
Thank you for the detail info on your SPORTSMAN, also.
Your piece is a 1st Model 5th Variation, made after March 1936 (2 PAT. NOs.) and I'd roughly estimate it from the data base to be mid to late in that year. It has all the markings and attributes of that Mod and Var and fits right into the s/n number range.
Having the full serial number of your gun would greatly help fill-in my data base as I'm getting info on quite a few pieces in that 20K to 25K s/n range. If you wish to share - PM or e-mail, it will be held in confidence. bobell01@aol.com
Thanks, again for the info.

Flynnstone63
March 23, 2012, 08:14 PM
Thanks Jim, I will email the number to you.

zumndad
April 8, 2012, 07:45 PM
1. Serial Number (partials are welcome, but entire numbers will help more)?
80892 stamped on the grip front strap
2. Firing pin on hammer or mounted in frame?
Hammer
3. Safety rim on cylinder? PATENT APPLIED FOR; one patent number; two patent numbers?
Yes on saftey rim
Two Patent Stamps: PAT 190472(?) the last two numbers are worn down
PAT 2034
4. Cylinder release: 1" long lever on right side -or- small push button on left side of frame right in front of cylinder.
Small push button
5. Location of Manufacturer's address - on top of barrel -or- on right side?
Right side
6. DA or SA?
DA
7. Adjustable or fixed front sight? If fixed - soldered in slot or pinned in slot?
Adjustable front and rear sights

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d100/zumndad/HR%20Sportsman/HandR_1.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d100/zumndad/HR%20Sportsman/HandR_2.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d100/zumndad/HR%20Sportsman/HandR_3.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d100/zumndad/HR%20Sportsman/HandR_4.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d100/zumndad/HR%20Sportsman/HandR_5.jpg

BlackAgnes
April 9, 2012, 01:50 PM
Here is another for your database:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/BlackAgnes/DSC00048.jpg

1. Serial # S14778
2. Firing pin on frame
3. Safety rim on cylinder along with last three of serial numbers, PAT. 1904 730 on side
4. Right-hand bar, partially knurled
5. H&R address in barrel top
6. Single action
7. Adjustable front sight, pivot pin 1 3/8" from muzzle

Tim

32 Magnum
April 10, 2012, 12:29 PM
Zumndad,
Thanks for the data - it's entered.
You've a 1st Model 6th Variation - and from the data base, with that s/n most likely early 1939 manufacture. It has all the "standard" features of that Variation. It's a bit difficult to see in the pics - but I'd estimate Good to V. Good condition, with a current RETAIL value in the $325 to $350 range. Nice gun - take it to the range and enjoy the smooth action and potential accuracy.

32 Magnum
April 10, 2012, 12:36 PM
BlackAgnes,
Thanks for the data - it's entered.
It's nice to get some data on the MODEL 199 SINGLE ACTION SPORTSMAN - not too many are showing up. Yours is a 3rd Variation - it most likely was made in 1934 - not enough data to get any closer than that. The M199 are much scarcer than the DA M999, probably on a scale of 1:50. Difficult to judge condition from one photo - but in general the 199s are selling at RETAIL for about 30% to 40% higher than the 999s. I'd estimate your piece to have a current value close to $475 +/- $25. VERY NICE shooting guns with one of the finest 2lb trigger pulls you will experience - unless some previous owner buggered it up.

BlackAgnes
April 10, 2012, 12:45 PM
Thanks, Jim-- It's about new condition, and you are right about the trigger pull!

Tim

32 Magnum
April 10, 2012, 02:17 PM
Tim,
You are most welcome - glad to help out. The Model 199s were individually hand made by a real craftsman - from specially hardened, fitted and honed parts. EVERY one was machine tested for accuracy (on a special machine rest that H&R developed for the Single Shot USRA Target pistol and adapted to the 999 and 199.) If the piece did not meet accuracy requirements - I seem to remember 1 1/2" 5 shot group or smaller at 20 yards - it went back for adjustment. No M199 left the factory that didn't meet accuracy requirements..

BlackAgnes
April 10, 2012, 07:46 PM
Jim-- That is great information.

I never imagined such care went into the making of these fine revolvers!

Now I have the itch to go out and shoot it!

Tim

Ralph G. Briscoe
April 11, 2012, 02:09 PM
Are there any good sources for gunsmithing the Sportsman online? Mine has an excellent finish, but 2 chambers consistently fail to lock up....problem with the hand and/or the point where the hand contacts the cylinder apparently.

32 Magnum
April 12, 2012, 10:45 AM
Ralph,
Try these guys: Stone Chimney Creek Trading Co, LLC do a search. Seem to be very reasonable - a they DO know H&R firearms.

32 Magnum
April 12, 2012, 10:48 AM
Tim,
I keep researching some period (1930s) books I came across and the H&R info in them is outstanding. I'm amazed at some of the steps that H&R took in their high end target guns - contrary to the "common" knowledge that H&R made "junque" guns - they made some real gems.

sigsmoker
April 12, 2012, 11:02 AM
I have a sportsman 999 with a large one piece wooden checkered grip and has a screw hole directly on the strap on the back and not the bottom of the grip handle. I think that the serial number indicates it is from 1941.

I would like to change the grip and I think that the options may be limited.
If I am correct the grip frame is shaped similar to a birds head even though the grip looks as if it were mounted on a square butt.

Are there other 2 piece grips available for this first model with the rather odd looking large 1 piece grips? I think it would look nice with some fancy wood or ivory birds head grips. Thank you!

sigsmoker
April 12, 2012, 11:06 AM
Looking up after I posted I see the revolver that zumndad posted and supplied images for. This looks almost exactly like mine grips and all, my barrel is not vented either and it is double action.

BlackAgnes
April 12, 2012, 11:13 AM
Jim--

I am going to go out to the range next week and try to duplicate the 20 yard 1 1/2" group standard that H&R required of the 199.

I'll use various brands of standard velocity ammunition and give a full report.

Wish me luck!

Tim

32 Magnum
April 12, 2012, 12:19 PM
Sigsmoker,
All the pre-1953 SPORTSMAN models will have the "RICE" type "bird's head shaped" grip frame. H&R originally made 5 different configuration mono-grips to suit different tastes. All of those attach to the frame by one shoulder bolt through the back of the grip threaded into the frame. Those original grips have become scarce and when you can find one they often run up to 75 or more for an original. I know of NO two piece grips made to fit on that frame - although I've seen some custom and home made examples that ranged from crap to excellent. Aftert the change to the grip shape in 1953 - many after market two piece panels began to show up - especially those made by JAY SCOTT. Check out the on-line auction sites regularly and you'll eventually find one of the five different mono-grip configurations. My favorite is the #3 type, which simulates the original Model P Colt SAA grip.

32 Magnum
April 12, 2012, 12:20 PM
Tim,
I'm anxiously awaiting your field test. Good luck.

sigsmoker
April 13, 2012, 11:03 PM
Thanks 32 magnum, I thought I would post a little collage of my sportsman.
It has a little bit of freckles from being put away without a wipe down many years ago and there is a small chink out of the bottom of the grip but it has aged and is barely noticeable. I wanted to replace it and keep the original grip with the pistol. Is there a link to this No 3 type you could provide or a picture? I like the classic old western style grips, much better than this big old log. My grip is probably in great shape compared to many other originals.
It is nice to hold, but to me, it just looks ugly.

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa306/wagonho/ebay/HandR999.jpg

Lookin2
November 26, 2012, 04:24 PM
1. Serial Number (partials are welcome, but entire numbers will help more)?
N5507
2. Firing pin on hammer or mounted in frame?
Hammer
3. Safety rim on cylinder? PATENT APPLIED FOR; one patent number; two patent numbers?
? I think yes- I can't see the back of the bullets. No markings
4. Cylinder release: 1" long lever on right side -or- small push button on left side of frame right in front of cylinder.
Small push button on left
5. Location of Manufacturer's address - on top of barrel -or- on right side?
Right side
6. DA or SA?
DA
7. Adjustable or fixed front sight? If fixed - soldered in slot or pinned in slot?
Adjustable.

I got this from my father in law a short time ago. Cleaned it and took it to the range. Had some misfires on every set of 9. One or two. I took off the handle and it appears that everything is metal (no plastic). You will probably know more from the serial number. There are some slight marks on the rims of the bullets when I take out the misfires. I was using Winchester Wildcat 22LR ammo. Any advice on something that I can fix? Can you tell a build date by the serial number?
Thanks in advance, Dave

KevininPa
November 26, 2012, 09:12 PM
.........32 Magnum has passed on and will be sorely missed. I hope someone else might be able to help you with your answer Lookin2. Though he was the best source of info for H&Rs, NEFs and Charters, there are still some very knowledgeable people here.

Gordon
November 27, 2012, 12:19 AM
Boy the great ones are dropping like flys ,:uhoh:
With the wrong way we are headed they will certainly be missed! Adios 32 Mag !

1madss
November 27, 2012, 07:54 AM
The H&R community has had a bad year. First Jamesjo and now Jim Hauff. I did not want to believe it, but after a search it is confirmed for me that Jim did pass in October. He always so helpful to me in getting information and repairing my 999 and seemed a genuine kind soul.


I don't much info but here is what I had found as far as manufacture dates:



Mfr years for H&R/NEF firearms
Year starting S.N. Prefix
1940 A
1941 B
1942 C
1943 D
1944 E
1945 F
1946 G
1947 H
1948 I
1949 J
1950 K
1951 L
1952 M
1953 N
1954 P
1955 R
1956 S
1957 T
1958 U
1958 V
1960 W
1961 X
1962 Y
1963 Z
1964 AA
1965 AB
1966 AC
1967 AD
1968 AE
1969 AF
1970 AG
1971 AH(snap on forend)
1972 AJ
1973 AL
1974 AM
1975 AN
1976 AP(first transfer bar on model 155)
1977 AR
1978 AS (Transfer bar added to all models)
1979 AT
1980 AU
1981 AVAX
1982 AWAY
1983 AXAZ
1984 AYBA
1985 AZBB
1986 BABC

Lookin2
November 27, 2012, 08:56 PM
.........32 Magnum has passed on and will be sorely missed. I hope someone else might be able to help you with your answer Lookin2. Though he was the best source of info for H&Rs, NEFs and Charters, there are still some very knowledgeable people here.
I'm sorry to hear that. Thanks for the information...

pcr1
March 24, 2013, 05:54 AM
Can anyone tell me where I might find replacement parts for an H&R Sportsman. I believe it is a First Model, Seventh Variation. It functions in double action but will not cock in single action. I'm looking for a replacement sear and hammer. The serial number starts with the letter A.

Jaymo
March 24, 2013, 10:22 PM
According to the date code list above, it looks like my 949 is a 1979 model.
Good to know.

Hemi1935
March 25, 2013, 09:44 AM
I picked up an H&R Sportsman yesterday and was wondering if you could help with dating it . The serial # is 30593 firing pin on hammer address on right side pinned front sight 1 piece grip , let me know if you need more info

1madss
March 25, 2013, 09:42 PM
I've been curious myself about the pre-40 guns and SN. I went back through the thread and found that Jim had actually explained it in Post #56.

"There are a couple verifiable dates to go along with variations: the first is October 1932 - which is the first month of production for the SPORTSMAN named revolvers; another is January 1, 1940 when the 'A' prefix was first used in the serial number"

"It now seems that the SPORTSMAN took a couple years to "take off" in sales (not unreasonable considering it was a fairly expensive item initiated in the early and middle years of the GREAT DEPRESSION) - so only a few over 20K were made in the first 3 1/2 years of production and then over 70K more were produced after March of '36 up to Jan. '40 (a period of 3 3/4 years)- as the highest known serial numbers are close to 90,000 before the 'A' prefix starts to show up"


I don't know how many times I've read this thread and went right past that info.

Here is a summary of the pre-40 guns that were listed in this thread so far:
21952 - mid to late 1934
29011 - late 1934
4844X - late 1936, early '37
49209 - 1937
54XXX - last half of 1936 or early 1937
61839 - 1937
678xx - late 1937
70520 - 1937-38
80892 - early 1939
89606 - very late 1939 or very early 1940



Hemi1935 - This would lead me to believe that your gun was manufactured in late 1934 or 1935. But that is just my relatively uneducated guess.


If anybody had any info at all on these guns feel free to jump in a leave what you know. Can't let this get away.

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