Magazine Pouch Question


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cbrgator
August 10, 2011, 02:29 PM
I am looking for a double pistol and double AR mag pouch for use in a day-long tactical rifle/carbine course. I don't want to purchase garbage like UTG but I am still looking for budget friendly equipment. Found these two. Can anyone offer input? Or alternatives?

AR Pouch: http://www.opticsplanet.net/boyt-harness-tactical-double-magazine-pouch-tacm10.html

Pistol Pouch: http://www.opticsplanet.net/511-double-pistol-mag-pouch-58712.html

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kwelz
August 10, 2011, 04:33 PM
M4 pouch. available for a belt or MOLLE gear.
http://www.blueforcegear.com/products/ITW-M4-Fastmag-for-Belt.html

Pistol pouches. Also availBle in single and triple.
http://www.tacticaltailor.com/magnamagdoublepistolmagpouch.aspx

cbrgator
August 11, 2011, 12:01 AM
Any thoughts on the pouches I linked?

lebowski
August 11, 2011, 12:23 AM
I like kydex pistol mag holders. I use comp-tac for my G19 mags http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=29 , they make M4 mag pouches as well. Personally, I run a blue force gear chest rig for AR magazines in carbine classes, http://www.blueforcegear.com/products/Ten%252dSpeed™-M4-Basic-Load-Chest-Rig.html

Raven concealment also makes good belt mounted mag pouches and holsters.

cbrgator
August 11, 2011, 04:30 PM
Does anybody have opinions on the 2 pouches I listed?

kwelz
August 11, 2011, 04:32 PM
I am not a fan of soft AR pouches or of pistol mag pouches that cover the Mags.

Soft AR mag Pouches can be hard to inset mags into and hard to draw them if they catch. Semi rigid is ok but still not great.

Pistol Mag pouches that cover the mags make it slower to reload which can cause issues.

Telekinesis
August 11, 2011, 05:16 PM
I would call the school and see if they have any recommendations a far as gear goes. They, or at least the teachers/trainers, see a LOT of gear going through their classes and probably have some pretty good opinions on what gear is good to use and what isn't worth the effort.

I just bit the bullet and bought some Blackhawk gear (through Optics Planet). I expect to go trough seeral classes (as I can afford them) and don't want to have to buy new gear for each one. Some of the lower end Blackhawk gear is actually pretty decently priced in comparison to other higher end companies. Also, if you don't mind weaving the MOLLE webbing, Blackhawk's web site has a 50% off deal for nearly all of their MOLLE pouches right now. I got a soft cloth double pistol mag pouch for $10 and a 6AR mag (2 pouches holding 3 mags each) for $25.

And sorry, but I don't have any experience with the pouches you listed.

lebowski
August 11, 2011, 05:26 PM
Does anybody have opinions on the 2 pouches I listed?
How are you planning to run them, on a belt or some kind of vest w/ molle?

The linked pouches look like they will be slow to access your mags.

cbrgator
August 11, 2011, 05:27 PM
On a 2" duty belt.

I would probably cut off the retention straps.

kwelz
August 11, 2011, 05:50 PM
6 mag pouches are way to many for class. Run slick as possible. I normally carry 2 mags for my primary and 3 for my secondary. For really long strings I will have anothermag in a pocket or dump pouch that later gets moved if needed.

6 mags is 168 rounds plus what is in the gun. That is a lot of extra weight to carry around.

cbrgator
August 11, 2011, 06:49 PM
6 mag pouches are way to many for class. Run slick as possible.
4, not 6. The pouches I posted each hold 2 mags.

How about this one for the AR mags?
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XVT208585OD&name=Voodoo+Tactical+Double+AR%2fM16+Magazine+Pouch+MOLLE+OD+Green&groupid=320

kwelz
August 11, 2011, 06:57 PM
Sorry. I was referring to telekinesis. He was talkin about 2 tripLe holders. I will post my training belt and more info When I get home tonight.

Telekinesis
August 11, 2011, 07:13 PM
6 mag pouches are way to many for class.

I think kwelz is referring to me.

I would agree with you, except that I'm using either an AK or a FAL. Each individual pouch holds 2 mags instead of the 3 AR mags, so I end up with a total of 4 mags instead of 6 (so 80 or 120 depending on the gun). They are also good for holding water bottles and/or a cleaning kit with a disassembled cleaning rod. (never know when you might have to help someone clear a stuck case...)

It may be a bit over kill having 4 of those pouches and a blow out kit on my vest, but it's better to be able to go to high round count/high pace classes without going to buy new pouches. I can always take them off if I don't need them. They also provide a convenient place to store my mags when not in use.

Chindo18Z
August 11, 2011, 07:20 PM
http://www.condoroutdoor.com/ma55triple_kangaroo_mag_pouch.aspx

http://www.condoroutdoor.com/images/products/display/MA55_003.4.jpg

http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=Condor+Triple+Kangaroo+mag+pouch&FORM=HURE

Condor brand formerly had a strictly airsoft rep, but the current models are pretty sturdy and are actually sold to troops (for real-world use ) in many on-base Military Clothing Stores.

It's a fairly decent pouch for not much money and you can run it on a belt with the 6 x MOLLE straps on the back of the triple pouch. The pistol mag pouch will easily hold any double-stack 9mm mag (Beretta M92) or a single stack (1911). Alternatively, they can hold a multitool or pocketknife. The pistol magazine flap can be tucked behind the magazine if you want to go "open-top" and there is a good friction fit (even for single stack mags).

If you don't like the bungee retention on the 5.56 pouches, you can untie/remove them. Your 5.56 mags will stay in place as they also have a fairly snug friction fit.

Comes in a lot of solid colors and camo patterns.

I've got one and I'm satisfied with it for actual hard use. Price varies by vendor, but call it ~ $16 (Double) to ~$23 (Triple) plus shipping.

THEY MAKE THE SAME KANGAROO POUCH IN SINGLE, DOUBLE, AND TRIPLE CONFIGURATION.

http://www.opsgear.com/common/images/products/thumb/CN-MA51_01_tn.jpg

You stated that you wanted a double for pistol and rifle, but I'd suggest that the triple gives you a place to put your ready mags when you need to download your firearms on the range. Or to carry additional mags for each caliber (if needed).

As to the two you linked... 5.11 gear is fairly decent (as is Boyt); either should work well for you. None of this gear (Condor, Boyt, or 5.11) should be considered in the same league as top-end stuff from Paraclete, Eagle, SOE, Blue Force Gear, Tactical Tailor, HSGI, Mayflower, ATS, etc., but they do sell functional gear at a reasonable price.

kwelz
August 11, 2011, 09:49 PM
All right as promised here you go.

http://web.me.com/kwelz/Pictures/trbelt.jpg

As you can see this belt is fairly clean. I just built this one based off of experience from the previous classes. For this the important part is the Mag holders.

A couple important things of note.

None of the Mags are covered and all are easily accessible.
Despite being uncovered they still have strong retention, this very important.
Mag are positioned for ease of access. (Of note I have the AR mags in there backwards for some reason. I guess I wasn't paying attention)


Something that will come up in training is how you reload. All reputable instructors will teach you about Magazine rotation. You always reload from the same spot. No matter what. After you reload you rotate the other mags up to that position when you have a break in shooting.

This is where those soft sided AR pouches can become an issue. Instead of easily sliding the mag in you have to fight with it if it has collapsed.

Secondly a lot of those pouches leave you little room to actually grab the magazine. The less you have to grab the harder it i to pull the mag and reload the gun. Especially if you have to shift your grip on the Mag.

Telekinesis
August 11, 2011, 10:17 PM
All reputable instructors will teach you about Magazine rotation. You always reload from the same spot.

I have actually herd instructors advise AGAINST magazine rotation. Their rationale was that if you only reload from one pouch, you never build the muscle memory of "I've shot all the mags from pouch #1, time to reach for pouch #2" and so on.

Granted, these classes are taught by former Mil/LEO/Comtractor types so I'm sure that influences their fighting style. The school is Tactical Response. Take a look at some of their vids on YouTube about Fighting Rifle for an example of running through several mags in one exercise. (And those vids are mostly why I have so many mag pouches on my vest.)

kwelz
August 11, 2011, 10:31 PM
Interesting. I could see that leading to a lot of searching around. I am sure if I was in Iraq or Afghanistan there may be something to that. However I see a couple problems with it.

First off is the "Did I reload from that pouch last time or this pouch"? Could lead to a lot of searching around. To me it is much better to just rotate your ammo up.

Secondly is that reloading is all about speed. Placing you main reload in an easy to access spot leads to faster and more reliable reloads. I have done this with AKs, ARs, and Pistols and found it to be the more reliable.

Finally the chances are that you will only have a couple extra mags. You are not going to have a Chest Rig or Vest. Just a couple mags on a belt.

I am not saying these guys are wrong but I disagree with it. I learned from the Hackathorn/Vickers train of thought. It puts emphasis on running clean fast and accurate.

Telekinesis
August 12, 2011, 12:10 AM
TR teaches that you drop your empties as you reload and pick them up after the fight, so that leaves your used pouches empty instead of filled with empty mags. So all you have to do is pat the pouch to feel of there's any ammo left in it. Also, they teach to not reload until you have another mag ready anyway, so your gun's actual down time is pretty low (assuming you didn't shoot to empty).

I'm not sure I follow you on the "you won't have acces to all your mags, just the ones on your belt". Your belt and my chest rig seem to be for the same general purpose: holding extra mags/gear for an "oh **** this is bad enough I need my rifle" situation. My chest rig stays with my rifle 24/7 (mainly because it has all my ammo for the gun). If I'm using the rifle, it's going to be with the chest rig. Either wearing it or havin it within arms reach.

This seems like a great example of "purpose drives gear". Your rig seems like a "bump in the night" rig while mine's more of a "go to war" rig. I don't see you wearing any armor with yours, and I have pockets for mine (ok, ok, one pocket :) )

I think that the philosophy behind "combat/disaster" gear might actually be a good thread topic, but it's probably close to off topic in this one. I'd start it now, but I'd rather not do it from my phone, so if you can get to it before me, feel free to go ahead and open one up.

kwelz
August 12, 2011, 12:24 AM
This seems like a great example of "purpose drives gear". Your rig seems like a "bump in the night" rig while mine's more of a "go to war" rig. I don't see you wearing any armor with yours, and I have pockets for mine (ok, ok, one pocket )

Yep this is really it. This rig and the one pretty much identical to it are set up for bump in the night or needing to deploy from my car. I also keep a 10 Speed chest rig in my bag with mags. However I would not reload from this except for the most dire of situations. Mags would get moved from it to my belt as needed.

Also I think you misunderstood some of what I said. I never mix mags on my belt. Empty or partials go into my dump pouch(assuming I have time to recover them).

Also I think you are right. This would make a great topic. :)

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