[1SOW]

This seemed the only place appropriate , so.....

I was practicing with two other USPSA shooters, and one was using Wal-Mart's 115gr Federal ammo (sort of purple-ish box).

He had been shooting Win fmj 115s and doing well with a M&P with very nice trigger work. He bought the FEDs fmj because they were less expensive than the WINs.

Some of his FEDs were actually going into the target "sideways" at "10" yards. His groups also opened up--a lot-- randomly.

A GM shooter tried the M&P pistol with the Federal ammo, and had the same type of results. He stated Federal 'range' ammo is some of the worst available, and the problem stems from the jacketing peeling back. I hadn't winessed this before as I reload my 9mm range/comp loads.

Has anyone else had this kind of experience with the less expensive Federal range ammunition?

[mdThanatos]

Was it the federal red box? I have some friends that use the .45 and haven't had that problem. I actually prefer Federal to Winchester.

[1SOW]

mdThantos: I guess it was red----sort of a dark red. Before I reloaded, I stuck with WIN White box, so no personal experience with Fed 9mm

P.S. Used to hunt jack rabbits on-the-run with a .22 rifle in "Big Spring". Where in West TX.?

[sigarms228]

I have shot quite a bit through my SIGs in 9MM and .40 and have not noticed anything unusual. I think it is pretty decent shooting ammo. I have not bought any for at least a year however and am using what I amassed before prices went up. It is about the lowest powered 9MM round that you can buy for what that is worth. I will pay more attention next time I use it though.

[Carter]

All of my wal-mart bought federal 9mm is performed great. I usually only get it when I need it last minute though.

[Apocalypse-Now]

A GM shooter tried the M&P pistol with the Federal ammo, and had the same type of results. He stated Federal 'range' ammo is some of the worst available, and the problem stems from the jacketing peeling back.


complete nonsense. champion's some of the best target ammo on the market, especially for the money. very clean burning and accurate.

[1SOW]

Mr. NOW

I didn't say Fed Champs. It's the cheapest 9mm target/range ammo from Wal-Mart that DID shoot like it was shot from a Daisy Red Rider with no oil. In targets I taped there were at least 4 holes on fresh cardboard IPSC targets, where it "looked" like the bullet tumbled or was coming apart when it hit. If The W.M. cheaper ammo IS FED Champ then I apologize for my ignorance of the Fed nomenclature.

Maybe it was a "bad" 'two boxes' of 50.

I don't sensationalize posts. I'm citing what occured Tuesday and curious if others have seen anything like this.

[Apocalypse-Now]

you described them as a dark red box. that's fed champ ;)

[Steve C]

Some of his FEDs were actually going into the target "sideways" at "10" yards. His groups also opened up--a lot-- randomly.


You let your gun get too much barrel fouling from copper or lead and this kind of thing happens. I take it no one tested the Fed ammo in in an other gun to see if it was his gun or the ammo.

[Yarddog]

Heck I use to shoot it all the time as whit WWB. PS They shoot Great no problems I could tell ; ) As I use the brass for reloads now
Y/D

[MJ_ATL]

I never had any problems with the Federal, other than having to go to Walmart and then track down an employee to help me. I quit buying it as I can beat the Walmart price + tax by ordering cases of the S&B ammo online.

[mgmorden]

Haven't ever had any issues with it myself. It goes bang and is reasonably accurate. That said, since you mentioned USPSA specifically, there have been some reports of the 9mm Federal range ammo not making Minor PF out of a 4" barrel. WWB seems to have no issues there though.

By far though the best route anyone can take when doing large volume shooting like you do at matches is to take up reloading. You save money, get more consistent ammo, and can tailor you loads to exactly where you want them to be.

[Remllez]

I think it may have been caused by a leaded barrel as mentioned above. For some reason the slug isn't spinning right? Jackets peeling back like a banana before impact? Sounds kinda henky to me, I'm not convinced it's the ammo. I'd try a good cleaning with solvent and a little bore brush work.

[Marlin 45 carbine]

a bbl can foul right near the muzzle too. that really screws up groups.

[mdThanatos]

I'm in FAR West Texas, El Paso to be precise. Locally in order to get Federal ammo of any kind There are two options, Wal-Mart or Academy, I haven't checked the local shops but they charge way too much for anything so I don't even bother with them.

At Wal-Mart you can get either Federal Blue or Red, the Red box they sell isn't the Match stuff. Also Wal-Mart is the only place to get the bulk packs of WWB, the 100 round boxes. Academy does sell the Federal Match, to me and maybe this is just me, the match has more of an orange to the the color of the box, think of it as a a dark copperish red and it will say Match on it. The regular red box doesn't say match and is a more crimson color to it.

Anyway, the ammo in question is usually cheaper than WWB so it is possible that it could be a bad batch but double check the firearm as others have suggested, as in cleaning first before writing off the ammo.

If you still have any of that batch, I'd clean then shoot and test and if the problem still persists I'd contact Federal and let them know about it to see if other complaints have been made against that production batch. Some companies keep track of things like this.

[jonnyc]

I've fired thousands of rounds of that Walmart Fed. 9mm without a single issue. I've found it very reliable and pretty accurate.

[JoeMal]

Walmart Federal works great for me

[KurtC]

Federal make 2 different brands of generic ammo. Boxes are similar in color.

1. American Eagle - decent quality.

2. Champion - Made on Monday morning or Friday afternoon, possibly by drunkards. Several dollars less than American Eagle, but very inconsistent. One cartridge might be a squib, the next one +P.

[481]

Champion - Made on Monday morning or Friday afternoon, possibly by drunkards....

Kurt,

Judging from your cynicism, I am guessing here that you are not a 'fan' of the Champion ammo... ;)

Rarely do things I read on the 'net make me burst out in laughter, but your insightful commentary was funny enough to do it.

Been a loooong day and I needed the laugh...

Thanks. :)

[Dogguy]

Never had a problem with Federal ammo no matter what the box color or model name. I generally prefer it to other US brands due to its quality and consistency. Federal Champion is their bargain line so you shouldn't expect it to perform on the same level as their premium ammo.

[1SOW]

re: think it may have been caused by a leaded barrel as mentioned above. For some reason the slug isn't spinning right? And other similar suggestions.

This is an almost new M&P. Win White box and Value-Pak shoots well.
He doesn't reload or shoot lead, just Wal-Mart 115gr FMJs. (I pick up all his WIN brass ;))

I personally use only Fed primers and some F.C. brass in my reloads and trust both.

[gym]

Just bought federal from wallmart today, never had a problem. Did with white box

[Onmilo]

The shooters pistol didn't like Federal.
Try something else.

[Ben86]

He stated Federal 'range' ammo is some of the worst available, and the problem stems from the jacketing peeling back.

Those don't have actual copper jackets. It is copper plating. I have had this peel back on me while shooting, spaying my target with flak (which is kind of cool, shotgun pistol) and leaving lead in the barrel. It did also cause a couple keyhole entries. This experience was out of a S&W M&P9C. It doesn't happen often and I still use this ammo for practice. Lately though it has been the same price as Winchester USA, so I'll probably go with that to get an actual jacketed bullet.

[1SOW]

Ben 86, Thanks for the confirmation of what my friend told me. Maybe it's just "some" batches of Federal.
I've never had any bad experiences with a LOT of Wal-Mart WIN ammo shot before I started reloading.

[Zerodefect]

I love Federal plinking ammo. It's the go to stuff when I need to troubleshoot a gun. It's allways been better than WWB for me.

The stuff I get is copper jacket with a brass case. Not high quality defense ammo or anything, but not El' Cheapo either.

[Usertag]

Sounds odd to me. Usally Federal makes great ammunition. Unless of course it is Hollow Points, then it will always jam on the feeding ramp.

[Onmilo]

Umm Federal Classic 115 JHP is my go to load when I feel compelled to load a 9mm with hollowpoint bullets,,,,

[Ben86]

Ben 86, Thanks for the confirmation of what my friend told me. Maybe it's just "some" batches of Federal.
I've never had any bad experiences with a LOT of Wal-Mart WIN ammo shot before I started reloading.


It has happened to me at least twice over the last 3 years. Last time was about 6 months ago. It's still not enough to scare me away from the ammo. It's not like I rely on it for anything but paper punching and plinking. It only happens with conventional rifling though. With polygonal it has not.

[gofastman]

A GM shooter tried the M&P pistol with the Federal ammo, and had the same type of results. He stated Federal 'range' ammo is some of the worst available, and the problem stems from the jacketing peeling back. I hadn't winessed this before as I reload my 9mm range/comp loads.
I thought I remember reading that the cheap Federal ammo is copper plated or gilded rather than a traditional FMJ

[Hangingrock]

I make the assumption (which is a bad thing to do) that the subject is Federal stock number WM5199 9mm Luger 115 Gr FMJ RN ammunition.

Please excuse the skepticism but this is like a quasi Wal-Mart WWB subject but now Federal as been inserted. :banghead::uhoh::barf:

I’ve used the Federal ammunition in question in these example pistols S&W MP9, Glock G17 & G19 with no problems. Please note that both the Glock pistols the OEM barrels and after market KKM were utilized

[Ben86]

I thought I remember reading that the cheap Federal ammo is copper plated or gilded rather than a traditional FMJ

Even so they still put FMJ on the box. That's misleading and they ought to not do that. They should call it a copper plated solid, like the .22s are called. People with ported barrels may have an issue with the plating and see FMJ and think it's fine. In there defense they do say not to use it in ported barrels on the back, but it still would be better just to call it what it is.

[9mmforMe]

I have read about WWB a fair amount lately and it has not garnered favorable reviews by some. I have been using it for almost 20 years and not had any problems to speak of. Now at Walmart, it has jumped in price for the 9mm by about 2 dollars so I switched to the Federal 115gr offering. Then they upped the price on the Feds and though its a little cheaper than the WWB, I have had no problems with it either. I used to not inspect my ammo before shooting it, but now I do and have found nothing so far. My range and HD gun gobbles down both without a problem...guess I'll just keep on using them both, inspecting for obvious defects and hope it works well.

[1SOW]

Hangingrock,
I've never had a problem with WIN White Box , and MANY say they have had problems. Okay. I've never shot Federals, and many say they shoot fine. That's okay too.

Nothing has been inserted/substituted anywhere. I asked a question about the events I witnessed.

I was interested to know who else might have seen this happen. A range shooter might never even notice it. They ALL fired and hit the paper.

[Hangingrock]

Ok the bullet hit the target sideways @ 10yds. Was this a paper/cardboard target? If so was the bullet diameter hole or holes out of round being oblong /oblique/elongated?

In an evaluation test of 9mm-Luger ammunition (winter into spring of 2011) I fired a combined total of 2500 (500 of each) rounds of Winchester-WWB, Remington, Federal, Blazer, and Winchester-WWC. Firing at 25 and 50 yard lines from traditional standing position the pistols employed an S&W MP9, G17 & G19 Glocks. With the Glocks the OEM and after market KKM barrels were used. All the ammunition employed would be referred to as economy grade FMJ cartridges.

As a general statement accuracy was acceptable not match grade perhaps but acceptable. No functionality problems with the ammunition. (This means no sideways bullet impact, the jackets appeared too remained intact, no ignition problems, and no failures to feed or eject properly)

My next test is going to be with RWS & Geco 124Gr FMJ.

[possum]

shot many rounds of it through my g-19, kel tec and my new 1911. no issues at all in those guns that I own. Additionally no issues with federal champion that I have seen shot in a kahr p9, and 2 other g-19's.

[1SOW]

Ok the bullet hit the target sideways @ 10yds. Was this a paper/cardboard target? If so was the bullet diameter hole or holes out of round being oblong /oblique/elongated?



As I said originally, these were standard IPSC carboard targets. Several holes I taped were elongated (as if shooting from a steep angle to the target).

Another shooter taping targets saw the same thing on the ones he taped.

4 of us shoot every Tues. One was shooting Feds for the first time in his M&P. We tape targets after each shooter shoots the targets we set up.

[Ben86]

I think maybe the sharp rifling of the M&P may disrupt plating on the Fed Champ that maybe isn't on as well as it's supposed to be. I don't think this is a common problem. It's only happened to me twice and I've shot a lot of this stuff and plan to continue using it.

[Hangingrock]

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc277/lowflash/IMG_3728-1.jpg
This is the brass from the 2500 test rounds fired from the previously specified economy grade ammunition lots of 500. I went thru this testing during the winter and spring of this year because of random internet reports of problematic usage of economy grade ammunition. I’m skeptical of what’s been reported.