which states are the best and least restrictive for gun ownership?


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rod5591
August 14, 2011, 01:44 PM
Any analysis done on the best states for gun ownership, with the least restrictions and red tape?

Where a gun can be inherited, gifted, or privately transferred?

Where shotguns can be freely modified?

Etc.,

Which states are the free states?

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Hanzo581
August 14, 2011, 02:11 PM
Virginia is pretty "free", but I am not sure what you mean by modifying shotguns. Most laws about cutting them down and such are federal laws and have nothing to do with the state.

colt1911fan
August 14, 2011, 02:11 PM
You have my vote for Idaho, no waiting periods and all the NFA items you can afford legally. As for shotguns I dont think its illegal to modify a shotgun anywhere as long as it follows the ATF rules but I might be wrong. Best of all the brady bunch rated us2 out of a hundred on gun laws only because we didnt pass the CCW on school grounds.

PS welcome to the forum

Dr_B
August 14, 2011, 02:19 PM
+1 for Idaho. You walk into a store and say, "I think I'd like to buy a gun today." You sign the form, hand over the money, and walk out. On the way home, it is legal to open carry it right there on your car seat.

colt1911fan
August 14, 2011, 02:29 PM
Exactly where are you at in this great state DR B?

Axel Larson
August 14, 2011, 03:11 PM
Vermont, Montana, Arizona and Alaska. All have no waiting periods and all have constitutional carry, (no CCW required for carrying OC or CC. I am actually not positive on Montana but I believe a law went through recently for constitutional carry. Although as another member pointed out barrel lengths are federal laws.
I have the amazing fortune to live in Vermont although the only problems are no silencers and no loaded long arms in a vehicle. The last one is just kind of annoying really.

garyh9900
August 14, 2011, 03:23 PM
Kentucky is very good on firearms. It does require a shall issue permit to carry concealed, but you can open carry, or even keep a firearm in a glove box or console w/o a concealed carry permit. You can own/use nfa items. No state restriction. We also have a pretty good preemption law.

KodiakBeer
August 14, 2011, 03:23 PM
I think I've read somewhere that Montana's "constitutional carry" has some big holes in it. The problem with Vermont is that they offer no carry permit, so once you leave the state you're screwed.

Arizona and Alaska have it right. I keep my Alaska permit current so that when I travel I can still be armed in most states. We have no gun laws, so only the federal prohibitions limit what you can buy.

Loosedhorse
August 14, 2011, 03:44 PM
I've noticed that many states where there is minimal red tape for carry, there can be nevertheless lots of regulations where you can't carry: bars, restaurants, houses of worship, police stations, sports events, nonsterile airport areas, private residences unless you have express permission, etc.

We in MA have a may-issue license system, and that is NOT great at all, but...

Once you have the license, you can carry except in schools and courthouses. Also, once you have been informed by someone who controls a property that no firearms are allowed on that property, you must leave.

VT seems to be similar in terms of having few designated "no carry" zones.

cbrgator
August 14, 2011, 03:49 PM
Look on the Brady Campaign's Website. They do a somewhat comprehensive analysis and rank the states based on the how restrictive their laws are. If you are looking for the least restrictive states, just look at the list from the bottom up.

jimmyraythomason
August 14, 2011, 06:16 PM
Alabama is pretty good. Not many restrictions but CCW permit is required.We get a 16 out of 100 rating from the Brady Campaign to Deny the 2nd Amendment.

thefamcnaj
August 14, 2011, 06:45 PM
South Carolina is great. Give the cash to the gun shop owner, fill out your paper work, and a quick call to sled and you walk out with a new pieace.
Private sale is a breeze here to. I could buy a gun today and walk out side and sell it to the first person that wants it. I can buy a gun from any one wanting to sell and just have it transfered.
As far as modifying shotguns.....I think as long as the barrel is 18 inches you can do anything.
No mag cap restrictrions of any type.
The only limitation I know of is that, you can't buy more than 5 guns in 5 buisness days.

oneounceload
August 14, 2011, 08:48 PM
Also add NV, FL, TX and GA to your list

swinokur
August 15, 2011, 09:14 AM
Constitutional carry in Montana is for residents only.

Sam1911
August 15, 2011, 10:26 AM
Here's the Brady scorecard: http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/stateleg/scorecard/2010/2010_Brady_Campaign_State_Scorecard_Rankings.pdf

From a "gun guy" perspective, you read it backwards. :)

It is oddly skewed as most gun folks will count certain facets (CCW, Title II stuff, AWB) as much more important than sales and record issues and the Bradys' way of counting puts states like IL too far down the list, and states like PA waaaaay too far up it.

But, it is a fair stab at figuring out where you might want to live. Pretty much any state under 30 "points" is good to go.

CTPhil
August 15, 2011, 10:35 AM
I really question their logic. CT in the top 5? I live in CT and don't feel very restricted. There is no "list" of banned guns, it's easy to get a pistol permit for concealed or open carry, FTF sales of long guns aren't regulated.

Sam1911
August 15, 2011, 10:48 AM
Yes. I feel the same way about PA, but if you go to the site and read the full scorecard (HERE (http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/stateleg/scorecard/2010/2010_scoring_system.pdf)) you can see which things they consider important which might push your state up the list even if they aren't particularly troubling to you.

There's stuff about selling guns with trigger locks, details of sales reporting, requirements for special state licenses for dealers, security systems required for dealers, etc. They're looking at a lot more than "shall issue" CCW, and no AWB.

NavyLCDR
August 15, 2011, 10:49 AM
Also add NV, FL, TX and GA to your list

Florida and Texas? Where almost no unlicensed carry of a handgun available for self defense in public is allowed? That Florida and Texas?

ErikO
August 15, 2011, 11:06 AM
Missouri's not bad as long as you're a Resident and a Citizen.

Dr_B
August 15, 2011, 01:58 PM
Exactly where are you at in this great state DR B?
Moscow.

USAF_Vet
August 15, 2011, 03:51 PM
Michigan is okay, but we have room for improvement :rolleyes:

Most long guns you can go in, hand over the cash, and walk out. I say most because some long guns are considered hand guns and require a purchase permit. An 18" barrel PGO or folding stock shotgun = hand gun purchase permit. 28" PGO pr full stocked shotgun = long gun, good to go. Folding stock AK, or collapsable stock AR = purchase permit. Fixed stock, AK/ AR = good to go. Antique cap black powder revolver = depends on it's purpose. If you ever plan to shoot it = pistol purchase permit. Otherwise = good to go.

We got a Brady score of 25. I hope in the future we can sell Detroit to Ohio, and get a bill that allows NFA items for the general public. We'll probably have to pawn Flint off on someone, too though. Maybe Canada?

amwdc
August 15, 2011, 03:55 PM
I like the laws in Vermont

colt1911fan
August 15, 2011, 03:58 PM
@ dr b :what: I didnt think they allowed gun owners up there if you ever make it down to the Idaho falls area and wanna shoot some bunnies let me know

rondog
August 15, 2011, 03:59 PM
I'm gonna have to toss in Colorado, pretty dang sweet here IMO. Can open carry in the entire state except Denver and Boulder (local ordinances), can carry a loaded handgun in your car anywhere without a permit, can carry loaded long guns in vehicles too but the chamber must be empty (DOW requirement). CCW permits are "shall issue", which means if there's no reason to deny you then you should be approved no question, I know I was.

AlabamaFamilyMan
August 15, 2011, 04:00 PM
Just a bit of clarification on Alabama:

Permit is required only for concealed carry, and for vehicle carry. Not for purchase (instant check at FFL), no regulations on FTF transfer (unless you know/suspect the transferee to be ineligible). Open carry legal except for the same restrictions on CC, but some localities are still trying to make their own/uphold nonexistent laws in violation of preemption.

AFM

Cosmoline
August 15, 2011, 04:06 PM
Where a gun can be inherited, gifted, or privately transferred?

Where shotguns can be freely modified?

Keep in mind those are primarily issues of federal law, not state. So even in pro-gun states like AK you still have to deal with the NFA and federal transfer and shipment rules.

Dr_B
August 15, 2011, 04:30 PM
@ dr b I didnt think they allowed gun owners up there if you ever make it down to the Idaho falls area and wanna shoot some bunnies let me know

Yes, the mayor tried to ban all guns within city limits in Moscow, ID. But this city is so different from everywhere else I've been in Idaho. Thanks to the state constitution, she couldn't ban firearms. Sometimes it seems like I'm a gun owner floating in a small sea of antis. But Idaho is still awesome for outdoor stuff like guns.

oneounceload
August 15, 2011, 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by oneounceload
Also add NV, FL, TX and GA to your list
Florida and Texas? Where almost no unlicensed carry of a handgun available for self defense in public is allowed? That Florida and Texas?

Where all you have to do is be breathing to get one? Yep, THAT FL and TX, where suppressors are no problem............... ;)

Sam1911
August 15, 2011, 04:48 PM
See, this is the problem with "the list" or any list. Some folks believe they live in gun paradise because they can buy all the waterfouling shotguns they want -- and don't give too poops about anything CCW or registration of handguns.

Some feel that being allowed to own a machine gun or silencer is where it's at.

Some really get bent out of shape that the state might require a special license for a dealer, or have it's own rules about safety locks being sold with a new gun.

(Personally, I'd look at who has the shortest list of "DON'Ts" attached to the carry/gun possession laws...but that's just my pet peeve. ... oh, and PA would WIN! :neener:)

And most of us want to be able to say, "My state's GREAT!" :)

KenW.
August 15, 2011, 05:42 PM
My State, Utah, always ranks at the bottom of the Brady list.

Permits are not hard to get, then you can carry everywhere but secure areas of airports, mental treatment facilities, courthouses, and posted private property.

AnonymousDefender
August 15, 2011, 05:55 PM
Arizona...Arizona's gun laws are so good that I am in fact moving there at the soonest opportunity. Going to try to get my house on the market come November / December time frame, and once it sells, start looking for work in phoenix. Can't wait.

New Mexico is pretty damn good...the main point of contention I have is that I'm damn tired of filling out forms every couple of years to beg permissions to CCW. The Constitution is my concealed carry permit.

GMcBoozer
August 15, 2011, 06:04 PM
I like MN laws, no waiting period and the CCW laws aren't as bad as others. All NFAs besides suppressors are legal here. Also no regs required, handguns are automatically registered when purchased, but you just have to write a letter to unregister it IIRC. I may be wrong about that last thing though. :/

loadedround
August 15, 2011, 06:11 PM
I have to agree with Sam1911 on Pennsylvania being a proactive state regarding the purchasing of firearms and the "shall issue" CCW laws. Here you just walk in, pick out your firearm, do the paperwork , instant check and walk out with your purchase. Furthermore our state will become even better when the Castle Law takes effect this September.

Sam1911
August 15, 2011, 07:12 PM
Pennsylvania being a proactive state
Sure. But of course, we have the state law that prohibits private transfers of handguns, and the PSP's "we swear to Goooawd it isn't a registry", and there's some oddness about carrying long-guns in cars, and schools are (sort-of, maybe) off-limits (except for "lawful purposes"), but mostly it's very good.

Any place that is shall-issue, no duty-to-notify, Title II friendly, AWB-less, and has no problem whatsoever with you tipping back a pint of ale in a bar while carrying really can't be all that bad. :)

jmace57
August 15, 2011, 09:41 PM
I am proud to live in a "zero star" state according to the Brady list!!

chubcobear
August 15, 2011, 09:59 PM
According to Brady & Co., Alaska scored 0 out of a possible 100. Kentucky scored 1, Idaho 1, etc. 'Ol Arkansas scored a 2......bummer. Wish it were 0 like Alaska. California was Brady's pride scoring 80 out of a possible 100. They win the most restrictive gun law state award, hands down.

Dr_B
August 15, 2011, 10:18 PM
California... good old California. Isn't it interesting that the states where you'd feel more of a need for protection are the ones where gun laws are tightest on the good guys?

lionken07
August 15, 2011, 10:36 PM
One of the reason why CT isn't one of the best state for guns ownership is that we have "evil feature ban" No 6 positions stock on AR15 being one.


I really question their logic. CT in the top 5? I live in CT and don't feel very restricted. There is no "list" of banned guns, it's easy to get a pistol permit for concealed or open carry, FTF sales of long guns aren't regulated.

RETG
August 15, 2011, 11:09 PM
And as far as I know, it is the only state that allows college students with permits to carry in state colleges, and parents with permits can carry into a school.

Now, I'm too old for either, and carry on a Fed Badge (at least for a few more months), but I find it refreshing; especially the colleges campus carry with permit.

(Now, if Utah could only issue more liquor licenses!)

wtxj
August 15, 2011, 11:36 PM
OK, you use your weapon in your house. Kill the BG. Can the BG's family turn around and sue you? Your protected in Tex from those BGuy LS.

How about the other good states?

Danb1215
August 15, 2011, 11:49 PM
And as far as I know, it is the only state that allows college students with permits to carry in state colleges, and parents with permits can carry into a school.

Now, I'm too old for either, and carry on a Fed Badge (at least for a few more months), but I find it refreshing; especially the colleges campus carry with permit.

(Now, if Utah could only issue more liquor licenses!)
There are a ton of states where permit holders can carry at a college.

http://opencarry.org/college.html

loadedround
August 16, 2011, 09:29 AM
Sam1911: You do make a good point, but basically I'm comfortable with Pennsylvania's gun laws and don't mind swearing (or attesting) that I'm not a felon or wife beater etc. God forbid if I lived about 25 miles east of Valley Forge into the People's Republick of Jersey. BTW, just bought a new rifle yesterday and completed all the paperwork in less than 10 minutes, not counting 20 minutes of BS time. Peace brother.

HankR
August 16, 2011, 04:28 PM
South Carolina is great..I can buy a gun from any one wanting to sell and just have it transfered.

Does this mean if you buy a gun you need to report it to the authorities?

Texas Gun Person
August 16, 2011, 07:29 PM
While Texas is good it is certainly not the best. No open carry of handguns, no constitutional carry. Other than those two big things it's really pretty nice here. :)

Arizona, Alaska, Vermont is numero uno.

Hanzo581
August 16, 2011, 07:39 PM
Virginia is not as bad as that chart would lead you to believe. But it was certainly interesting to read.

Nico Testosteros
August 16, 2011, 07:43 PM
Texas sucks. Don't move here. We're full.

Sam1911
August 16, 2011, 07:50 PM
Texas sucks. Don't move here. We're full.


HA! Says you! As soon as you get open carry, and get rid of the 30.06 signs, and that stupid "duty to inform," and the crazy list of off-limits places, we're all moving down there -- right next to YOU! :neener:

(Oh, and that law forbidding Bowie knives... what's up with that? In TX? :eek:)

M-Cameron
August 16, 2011, 08:22 PM
We in MA have a may-issue license system, and that is NOT great at all, but...

Once you have the license, you can carry except in schools and courthouses. Also, once you have been informed by someone who controls a property that no firearms are allowed on that property, you must leave.


ive noticed that......pretty much, in MA, there arent many places you cant carry......

i have honestly NEVER seen a "no guns allowed" sign......anywhere

pretty much, the farther away from Boston you get, the more gun friendly places are.....

heck, the licensing officer in my town even said the gun laws were ridiculous in this state.

i really think MA would be better off if it split into 2 different states......the free West MA...and the 'not so free" East MA.....that way everyone would be happy.

or maybe we can just give Boston back to the British.......and wall it off from the rest of the state.

Bobson
August 16, 2011, 09:04 PM
Arizona...Arizona's gun laws are so good that I am in fact moving there at the soonest opportunity. Going to try to get my house on the market come November / December time frame, and once it sells, start looking for work in phoenix. Can't wait.
Winter's a great time to be here, hopefully the house sells quickly. Good luck.

GlockFan
August 16, 2011, 09:14 PM
Wow I thought IL would be tops but according to Brady but there are a lot more that score higher! No CC no NFA. If it wasn't for cRook county I am sure things would be better here.

oneounceload
August 16, 2011, 09:20 PM
OK, you use your weapon in your house. Kill the BG. Can the BG's family turn around and sue you? Your protected in Tex from those BGuy LS.

How about the other good states?

I believe FL was one of, if not the first, in that regard..........also gotta love that Castle Doctrine being applied not only to your home or motel room, but your car as well

Jericho 941
August 16, 2011, 09:55 PM
I cannot believe we listed:

Florida
Texas
Idaho
Utah
Arizona
New mexico
Pennsyvania
Alaska
Kentucky
Arkansas
Connecticut
South Carolina
Virginia
Vermont
Montana
Alabama
Nevada
Georgia
Missouri
Michigan
Colorado

Before Oklahoma...

Besides the ease of acquiring a gun, CCW and silencers in this great state we have some of the largest gun shows in America and the Oklahoma Self Defense Act. (www.ok.gov/osbi/documents/SDA_Lawbook_NOV_2010.pdf)

There is even legislation in the works to allow you to hunt game with a silencer, and you can already hunt feral pigs and predatory mammals (like wolves and coyotes) with them. I have dropped many hogs with a silenced .308.

You can shoot an intruder in your home and they let you go back to bed. As the previous poster pointed out they even extend that right to defending yourself in your vehicle. What is the point of owning and carrying if you end up going to prison for defending yourself?

Plus Tulsa and OKC are pretty modern big cities with good jobs and excellent grub. Great place to live and work, and Tulsa has a place called Red Castle which is CMP affiliated and has a 1000 yard range for high powered rifles.

Sam1911
August 16, 2011, 10:33 PM
You can shoot an intruder in your home and they let you go back to bed. As the previous poster pointed out they even extend that right to defending yourself in your vehicle. What is the point of owning and carrying if you end up going to prison for defending yourself?


Good grief I wish people would quit saying that. There is SO MUCH more to understanding how "Castle Doctrine" and "Stand Your Ground" laws work, and how a legal self-defense case works that simplifying it that way is really a bad idea.

In no state do you go to prison for defending yourself if you make a successful argument for the neccessity of your violent act in self-defense. In no state are you immediately off the hook for shooting someone because you felt you were justified in doing so. The "Castle Doctrine" laws aid the defender by allowing certain presuppositions in their favor, thus lowering the threshold of proof they must present in explaining why it was necessary to take a life.

And it is utterly unreasonable to assume that if you shoot someone -- even in your house -- they'll "let you go back to bed." There's going to be an investigation. You are probably going to spend some time in custody. Your firearm will almost certainly be taken into custody as evidence. And you're probably going to need a lawyer.

No shoot is a "Good Shoot" until the District Attorney, a Grand Jury, or a fair and impartial jury in front of a judge says it is. Even in "Castle Doctrine" states.

Bobson
August 16, 2011, 10:49 PM
Jericho, are you saying that in most states, if I were to shoot someone trying to carjack me at gunpoint, I would go to prison?

I find that pretty unlikely. Sure, maybe it can happen, maybe it even has happened. But that's gotta be about as common as a gun collector being content with what he has.

Also, it might be easy to get a CCW license in OK, but in AZ and AK, you don't need one.

armoredman
August 16, 2011, 10:59 PM
Sam, a list of DON'Ts? Hmmm, like this?

In Arizona we DON'T require a permit to carry openly or concealed, or to purchase, or to own a firearm. We DON'T have an AWB, waiting period, magazine limit ban, ammunition type ban, FOID, registration, licensing, requirement to conduct private purchases at an FFL, inheritance ban. We DO have Castle Doctrine, Shall Issue permit with very easy terms just in case you want one, reciprocity with several states, recognize permits from darn near anywhere, allow lawful possession of NFA items, and have no issue with you CARRYING your lawfully possessed NFA items. Didja want to use that SMZ rig for your MAC? You can do that here, as long as you have your tax stamp. :)
We also have safe storage required at government buildings, and allow CCW PERMIT HOLDERS, (good reason to still have one), to carry in places that serve open alcohol that are not posted, as long as the permittee doesn't consume alcohol.
There's more, but I can't remember it all. Oh, yeah, lots of ranges, a very nice 300 yard free public well maintained range just a few minutes from me. :)

Sam1911
August 16, 2011, 11:15 PM
Jericho, are you saying that in most states, if I were to shoot someone trying to carjack me at gunpoint, I would go to prison?

I find that pretty unlikely. Sure, maybe it can happen, maybe it even has happened. But that's gotta be about as common as a gun collector being content with what he has.


This a common flaw in understanding how self-defense cases work.

Shooting someone is illegal. It's Assault with a Deadly Weapon. Killing someone is illegal. It's generally manslaughter or murder.

State laws offer an exception, called an "Affirmative Defense," that CAN set aside the guilt for that crime. What many folks don't really understand is that this works the opposite way from most criminal defense cases.

You are NOT "innocent until proven guilty." In fact, you start out by saying, "I did it!" You admit breaking the law -- and then you offer your affirmative defense of "self-defense." "I did it, and this is why..."

If your claim of necessity is believable -- in other words, if you can establish that a reasonable person in your situation would have felt there was no other way to prevent your own (or another's) death or grievous injury (or a very short list of other serious felonies like arson of an occupied building), and the evidence supports what you say, then the D/A, or a jury is allowed by the law to excuse your crime.

Some states or cities have a bad reputation for prosecutors being extremely unlikely to "no bill" a defensive shooting. They may have a policy or habit of putting every shooting through a jury trial and trying to fight the self-defense claim. Some areas have populations that seem to provide juries which are less likely to believe self defense claims, or at least those from certain citizens. (Race? Class? Status? Who knows?)

These "castle doctrine" or "stand your ground" laws help the defender -- to a point -- by spelling out certain presuppositions the state is allowed or instructed to make, if the evidence supports them, to reduce the weight of evidence a defender must provide to establish the necessity of his act.

For example, the law may say, "If a person is found to be entering an occupied residence with force, their motive to enact violence upon the occupants may be assumed..." or words to that effect. Thus giving a resident a bit of the benefit of the doubt that, IF someone is forcing their way into their home, the fact that the resident saw a weapon and/or heard a personal, voiced threat may not have to be part of the evidence required to establish their need to act. The law in that case would be saying, "If we establish the violent entry, (and possibly other details), then we can assume the threat existed."

Some may say something along the lines of, "If a person is presented with a threat of force, while they are in a location where their presence is not a violation of law, they shall have no duty to retreat from that place before using force or deadly force to resist assault or death..." In other words, if you're presenting a defense of "self-defense" regarding a shooting that happened on the street, and you can prove that a reasonable person would have felt they were about to be killed or seriously hurt, you may not also have to prove that you tried to run away before you shot.

You can shoot someone under circumstances you absolutely believe to be necessary -- and if a DA or jury doesn't accept your defense, you will go to jail. That could happen anywhere. Know your laws (best to spend time with an attorney who specializes in self-defense cases -- or take a law-based self-defense class), know exactly what you should say (as well as what you shouldn't) when the police arrive on scene, and understand that shooting someone under any conditions is the second worst thing that could happen to you.

Bobson
August 16, 2011, 11:30 PM
Oh, yeah, lots of ranges, a very nice 300 yard free public well maintained range just a few minutes from me. :)
Which range is that? I live about ten mins from Ben Avery. It's awesome, but it costs $7 to shoot. Not bad at all.

Bobson
August 16, 2011, 11:33 PM
. . . .understand that shooting someone under any conditions is the second worst thing that could happen to you.
That's a sobering thought. Good to be aware of it though. Thanks, Sam.

wow6599
August 16, 2011, 11:40 PM
We here in the "Show-Me State" got 4 points out of 100 from the Brady's.
I just know we can do better.......I want a zero!

Warp
August 16, 2011, 11:44 PM
Indiana is one of the best east of the Mississippi.

pmec
August 17, 2011, 12:06 AM
Sam1911 pretty much said it right about PA. I have a CCW in NY state and wanted one for PA because my daughter and family moved to PA. Sent in an application, a copy of my permit, and the fee, and now I'm good to go (thanks for the info, Sam). Visited PA last month, did some target shooting with my son-in-law in their back yard, and visited a local gun club near their home. I met some great folks.

Yup, 2 thumbs up for PA!

Warp
August 17, 2011, 12:47 AM
Where all you have to do is be breathing to get one? Yep, THAT FL and TX, where suppressors are no problem...............

Texas gun laws, especially in relation to handgun carry, are over rated.

CHL is far too expensive.

Training required (also costs money)

Open carry illegal

Off limits locations list is longer than a lot of other states

Use of force laws are good. Can have pistol in car without license. No abnormal prohibitions on ownership. Definitely a lot of positives, but quite a few states are considerably better

Warp
August 17, 2011, 12:48 AM
am1911 pretty much said it right about PA. I have a CCW in NY state and wanted one for PA because my daughter and family moved to PA. Sent in an application, a copy of my permit, and the fee, and now I'm good to go (thanks for the info, Sam). Visited PA last month, did some target shooting with my son-in-law in their back yard, and visited a local gun club near their home. I met some great folks.

Yup, 2 thumbs up for PA!

PA is very good. They have a bit of an achilles heel, though. If you reside there all of your handgun purchases are either registered or illegal since you cannot legally purchase/transfer a handgun without going through an FFL.

Sam1911
August 17, 2011, 12:59 AM
all of your handgun purchases are either registered or illegal

Yes, that's what I was talking about back in post 36. We've got a few issues that need fixing.

Sure. But of course, we have the state law that prohibits private transfers of handguns, and the PSP's "we swear to Goooawd it isn't a registry", and there's some oddness about carrying long-guns in cars, and schools are (sort-of, maybe) off-limits (except for "lawful purposes"), but mostly it's very good.

Any place that is shall-issue, no duty-to-notify, Title II friendly, AWB-less, and has no problem whatsoever with you tipping back a pint of ale in a bar while carrying really can't be all that bad. :)

Pocket Rocket
August 17, 2011, 03:15 AM
Just reviewed Brady's rules of scoring and noticed the demerits...if Alaska and/or Arizona can get campus restrictions removed they'll be in the negatives.

MyGreenGuns
August 17, 2011, 05:10 AM
Isn't it interesting that the states where you'd feel more of a need for protection are the ones where gun laws are tightest on the good guys?
^The bad guys LOVE the anti's!

if a DA or jury doesn't accept your defense, you will go to jail.
^I'm not wealthy, I worry the bad guy's family will have a better lawyer.

"Employers not forced to allow firearms in parking lots"
^I laughed when I read this (wording seems funny). A previous employer put up a "NO GUNS ON PREMISIS" sign, 8 of 13 cars parked across the street from then on out.

Washington state has a star :(. But 100 possible minus 17 (brady score) = B- as far as gun freedoms!

mljdeckard
August 17, 2011, 06:08 AM
I'll second the Brady list. Utah deserves the dead last status. KenW, you are incorrect. Private property owners CANNOT ban guns. They can ban people. If they ask you to leave, and you refuse, and are forced to leave, you are guilty of TRESPASSING, not a gun crime. In Utah the state has pre-emption. The state legislature decides where you can and cannot carry, not businesses, individuals, or municipalities.

You can carry in schools and universities.
You employer cannot bar you from having a gun in your vehicle at work.
No permit required in your home or vehicle.
Open carry is allowed with a permit anywhere concealed carry is allowed. (Try that in TX.)
No state bans against NFA items.
Concealed or open carry is allowed in state and national parks.
Bars and clubs, no restriction. Carrying limit is same as driving limit, .08.

Pretty much the only time I can't carry is on military posts, court houses, prisons, and post offices. (Also if you are LDS, you can't carry to church.) I haven't visited any mental institutions since a college class many years ago. Ok, if you attend an event like a Jazz game, you will get wanded, but if you are carrying, you will be asked to leave, not arrested.

azmjs
August 17, 2011, 06:01 PM
Arizona is Number One :D

oneounceload
August 17, 2011, 08:26 PM
Private property owners CANNOT ban guns

So, you are in favor of the government usurping the rights of private property owners? WOW........not exactly what this country was founded on

USAF_Vet
August 17, 2011, 09:23 PM
OK, you use your weapon in your house. Kill the BG. Can the BG's family turn around and sue you? Your protected in Tex from those BGuy LS.

How about the other good states?

Michigan. Although we scored 25 on the Brady scale, out Castle doctrine/ Stand your ground extends from home, to car, and anywhere I have the legal right to be. We are protected from civil suit if it's determined to be a good shoot.

We've also got open carry. CPL isn't cheap, nor are the classes, but we're a shall issue.

ETA: "Employers not forced to allow firearms in parking lots"

This is one of the lame things about Michigan. It might just be company policy though, but when I get my CCW, I'll be parking across the street, gun locked inside.

Warp
August 18, 2011, 12:14 AM
Virginia, Arizona, Kansas, and Vermont are the best states.

Virginia? Are y'all even allowed to conceal carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol yet?

Kansas...local jurisdiction can impose their own laws regarding carry/open carry, right?

VT and AZ...definitely at the top.

lizziedog1
August 18, 2011, 12:24 AM
Nevada is as bad as Texas. Our gun laws are very restrictive and add to that there are really no places to shoot around here.

mljdeckard
August 18, 2011, 01:03 AM
I didn't say I approved or disapproved of it. I said it was the law.

What do you think is better for the rights of citizens and gun owners? A patchwork of laws and regulations that vary every time you enter a business, or a law that is uniform everywhere you go? Private property owners' rights are not restricted by this. They have the right to close their property.

jmresistance
August 18, 2011, 02:24 AM
I'm proud to say that Indiana scored a 4 out of 100 on the Brady Scorecard. You do need a permit to carry, but they offer a lifetime, which I got last year, so for me it has become a non-issue.

There is a stupid state law banning Short-Barreled Shotguns. If it qualifies as an AOW, it's fine, but not if it's an SBS. The way I understand it, the shotgun has to come from the factory as a pistol grip only to be cut down into an AOW. If it comes with a full stock, however, the shortened version would be considered an SBS. This basically rules out a sawn-off SxS or O/U, both of which are on my wishlist... :mad:

oneounceload
August 19, 2011, 10:43 PM
Nevada is as bad as Texas. Our gun laws are very restrictive and add to that there are really no places to shoot around here.

WHAT??? Maybe in Vegas, but the rest of the state is fine - no places to shoot? The state is 87% open public land - how much do you need of that 110,000 square miles to shoot?

When I lived there, I could go to the local drug store, buy a gun, ammo, reloading stuff, liquor, hard-core scrip narcotics all in one trip............

razorback2003
August 20, 2011, 07:39 PM
Nevada has a lot of places to shoot. You just drive outside of town on public land and find a safe place. It is great.

You also don't need a stupid license to carry a loaded gun in your vehicle or in the open.

The place is honestly gun freedom compared to Tennessee.

Mike1234567
August 20, 2011, 07:45 PM
WHAT??? Maybe in Vegas, but the rest of the state is fine - no places to shoot? The state is 87% open public land - how much do you need of that 110,000 square miles to shoot?

When I lived there, I could go to the local drug store, buy a gun, ammo, reloading stuff, liquor, hard-core scrip narcotics all in one trip............
LOL!!!

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