Armscor .357 magnum 125gr...too hot?


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seed
August 14, 2011, 08:42 PM
Armscor .357 125gr ammo is listed at 1875 fps and 984ft/lb.!...not sure of barrel length. Maybe those numbers are rated a little higher than reality, but having used them in the past I can attest to their power. They are HOT...hotter than any other .357 magnum round I have ever used or seen. I know about concerns with flame cutting and cone erosion, especially with 125 grain rounds. I also wonder about pressure concerns in the cylinder. I have a Ruger SP101, which is of course really tough. But will extensive use of these rounds bring it to an earlier demise? And are these rounds unacceptable for use in say, a Colt Python?

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Steve C
August 14, 2011, 10:04 PM
Velocity and energy numbers like this are typical of full power .357 mag ammo from a 10" or longer unvented test barrel as you can see in the example from Hodgdon's reloading information below. Real world velocities would likely average 1,400 fps +/- from a 4" revolver. Notice that the pressure data listed in CUP's is well below the 46,000 CUP of the old SAAMI standard when it was measured in CUP.

How "hot" a particular load "feels" is very subjective and the Armscore load is unlikely to be more powerful than full power 125gr loads by Federal, Winchester or Remington. Using this ammo in your Ruger or Python will be perfectly safe but unlikely to accelerate their demise quicker than any typical magnum ammo.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=147358&stc=1&d=1313370253

seed
August 15, 2011, 09:00 AM
Thanks Steve. Excellent post. You wouldn't happen to know the specs of Federal or other 125's?

nathan
August 15, 2011, 12:48 PM
Where can we get these ARmscor ammo?

harmon rabb
August 15, 2011, 02:04 PM
i bet you that figure is out of a 16" barrel or some nonsense.

Steve C
August 15, 2011, 02:36 PM
Thanks Steve. Excellent post. You wouldn't happen to know the specs of Federal or other 125's?

Federal 125gr JHP (http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=105)

Winchester Super X 125gr JHP (http://www.winchester.com/Products/handgun-ammunition/super-x/jhp/Pages/X3576P.aspx)

Remington Express and CCI Gold Dot has the same ballistics as the above. Remington Golden Sabers are loaded lighter at around 1,200 fps.

Cop Bob
August 15, 2011, 02:40 PM
Thanks Steve. Excellent post. You wouldn't happen to know the specs of Federal or other 125's?
+1

When it said 1800 fps with 125 bullets in 357, I HAD to take a look.. the 10" tube speaks volumes for the test....

I thought that HAD to be a fluke.. we have done some testing trying to get the max out of conventional/service length BBLs and like was stated, 1400+- with 125 was about it...

We did however touch 2000 FPS out of a 6" once using 90gr 9mm 380 bullet in a 357 case, stuffed with a full (read compressed) load of 2400...(check the manuals! the max load listed for a 110 was more than a 357 would hold so we figured what the heck, just for fun).. Heck of a fireball... not real accurate.. but it was fast!

btw, we were shooting off a Ransom Rest and standing way back using a string when we did the 1st few...

Vonderek
August 15, 2011, 04:44 PM
I have shot the Armscor .357 and it certainly does feel "hotter" to me than other factory fodder. I had the same question in mind as yours so have only used it since in my '94 Trapper which I guess is a subject for the rifle forum.

seed
August 15, 2011, 06:45 PM
Cop Bob, what 6" did you use? Any noticeable damage?

goon
August 16, 2011, 01:33 AM
One day a friend came to the range with me and brought some ammo to use in my .357. It turned out to be a box of Armscorp 125 grain stuff with nickel plated casings. Function was fine and it did seem hot, but not really any hotter than any other 125 grain .357 I've shot (which hasn't been much lately - I like heavier bullets). I remember it being really dirty and sort of binding the revolver up after twelve rounds or so.
Nothing special about it. I tossed the brass into my "random plinking brass" pile and it's been fine, but I wouldn't go out of my way to find any if I were you guys.

gamestalker
August 16, 2011, 09:54 PM
I've stuffed a bunch of H110 or 296 behind a 110 gr. XTP and got over 1800 fps from a 4" barrel. It was eye opening to say the least. Nothing bad happened other than getting blinded by the muzzle flash. i did get one round that jumped out of the case because my crimp wasn't stout enough. I tell ya one thing for sure, I wouldn't want to be on the recieving end of those, even though they are 110 gr..

LightningMan
August 16, 2011, 10:24 PM
I've wondered what barrel lenght they used for the data in the Modern Reloading by Richard Lee in which they use a 110 gr. jacketed bullet with 16 grains of Blue Dot to get 2040 fps.?
FWIW I loaded some of these and shot them through my Ruger 6" barrelled Vaquaro with no problems, sure was a fireball coming out of that muzzle.

MachIVshooter
August 17, 2011, 03:10 AM
we have done some testing trying to get the max out of conventional/service length BBLs and like was stated, 1400+- with 125 was about it

13.5 grains of blue dot got 125's out of my 4" Security-Six at just over 1,500. That load also cracked the forcing cone. Incidentally, both my 65-3 and my sister's 65LS held up to them just fine...............

110 gr. jacketed bullet with 16 grains of Blue Dot to get 2040 fps.?

At least 6", if not 8". From my 4" guns, that exact load got 1,690 FPS.

Drail
August 17, 2011, 08:35 AM
Having seen firsthand what a heavy Blue Dot/125 gr load will do to a forcing cone I would advise everybody to stay away from ammo loaded like that. If it produces a large fireball then it is doing very bad things to the forcing cone. Doesn't matter if it's a Ruger or a S&W.

ColtPythonElite
August 17, 2011, 09:17 AM
On the other side of the coin, I have a gun that has eaten at least a couple of thousand Blue Dot charged 125's and has no damage...I shot that load for well over a decade. The only reason I stopped was to heed Alliant's warning not to use BD in the 125 loading....Of course, it wasn't a Ruger or a S&W.:D

DWFan
August 17, 2011, 09:26 AM
Accurate Arms on-line data 3.2.2 lists .357 Magnum loads with pressures of up to 44,000 CUP. If I'm not mistaken, current CIP (European) pressure standards for the .357 Magnum is around 43-44,000 psi compared to SAAMI's standard of 35,000 psi.
As a side note, the famous "shoot to failure" test of the Manhurin MR73 was halted after 170 thousand rounds of Norma 44 kpsi loads were fired thru the revolver. The original Manurhin MR73's had to be capable of shooting 1" at 25 meters or they were not allowed to leave the factory.

Dustin0104
August 23, 2011, 04:48 PM
Just recently got a box of magtech 158 grain sp, first cylinder through my sp-101 required some serious force to extract. I thought maybe it was the gun so I ran them through a blackhawk and could barely extract them again. Is this normal? I reload and always heard sticky extraction is a sign of high pressure

tipoc
August 24, 2011, 03:05 PM
Here is a link to Armscorp ammo...

http://www.armscor.com.ph/centerfire_pistol.htm

http://www.armscor.com.ph/cfp_357magnum.htm

Note the length of the test barrel.

As mentioned, the manufacturers often list the technical specs.

For quick comparative figures one can always drop by here...

http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?tabId=3&categoryId=7502&categoryString=653***691***

click on the image and check the technical specs.

tipoc

gamestalker
August 24, 2011, 06:09 PM
Dustin0104, I get real nervous if the extraction is even sticky, let alone seriously difficult. So I would consider that a great big yes, to high pressure signs.

LightningMan
August 24, 2011, 09:13 PM
Dustin0104, yes sticky extraction can be a sign of high pressure and most likely that is what you have. Having said that, it is possable your chambers are rough from left over tool marks, and those marks can cause cases to stick more that they should when shooting stout loads. I used a Flex-Hone to polish the chambers of my Ruger Vaquaro and even those hot loaded .357 BlueDot loads come out easily. Now I know for sure that if I try a new load and have sticky extraction, it will be caused by high pressure, and not because some employee should have changed the cutting tool several cylinders ago. LM

Dustin0104
August 30, 2011, 04:56 PM
I thought maybe it was the cylinders but to have them stick in both is a little scary. I have shot quite a few boxes of factory stuff and even more handloads and have never experienced this. Have you guys ever fired factory loads that were sticky? How much overpressure would this be?

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