[jsalcedo]

My local shop has a NIB Llama .45 Black parkerized 1911 clone with cool looking polymer molded wrap-around grips.

The fit and finish look great and from a cursory inspection everything
seems to be well made.

They are asking $289 should I go for it?

[Preacherman]

I can only say that I have either handled, shot, or know owners of, eleven Llama pistols. Nine of them have been problem children, and the two "reliable" ones are the least-used of them all.

I'd stay away from Llama... but YMMV.

:uhoh: :scrutiny: :confused:

[liliysdad]

Given Llamas history, Im gonna say no. For 289, you can get a Rock Island...

[tc300mag1]

I have and still have one no probs what so ever but.. since its not a true 1911 clone getting parts is a pain in the behind if you need them.

Also unless they changed the std 1911 grips or aftermarket grips wont fit

[stans]

If you can, get a real 1911. Llama has had a long history of problems. Yes, there are some really nice Llama guns out there, but there are a lot of dogs too. I have learned, by the hard route, that you are far better off saving your money and buying what you really want and need rather than settling for something less, then regretting it or spending big $'s trying to turn that sow's ear into a silk purse.

[PCRCCW]

The long sorted history of Llama 1911's being bad guns is the 20 years old guns that had soft metals in their frames/slides.

But for the price they are asking......you can get a much better gun.
They sell new around here for around 229$..............

Shoot well.

[MrFreeze]

Sold my FireStorm (Llama), and bought a Springfield! :D

You could save another hundred or two and buy a nice, used Mil-Spec Springfield...IIRC, you could pick one up, NIB, for $400 and change. Rock Island has some nice ones out there for cheap, and I've heard some Charles Daly pistols aren't too shabby. You could even go retro and do a Sistema or Norinco.

Buy a Springfield.

Can you tell I'm biased?:p

Travis

[cratz2]

If you want a large, cheap, reliable gun, I'd get a full-sized Hi-Point.

If you want a 1911 style gun as cheap as possible, I'd save up for a Springfield MilSpec.

[VonFatman]

I'd agree with the others here. I have an older Llama, a .380 which looks really cool...it's like a mini 1911!
I really like holding the gun, looking at it, I even like taking it apart.
But even this old one(40-50 yrs-imported by Stoeger which is now out of the busniess) is a POS!!

It can't get past the first or second round without a jam...EVER.

But, it's real easy on the ammo!
and
it's a cool paperweight!

I'd go for a R. Island.

VonFatman

[000Buck]

You can get a Springfield for $390 new these days! Thats the all matte black one, very nice gun, I have put about 200rds through one.

[Sean Smith]

Short answer, no.

Long answer, nononononononono! :D

[Snowdog]

I suppose I'm fortunate, as my Llama has always been quite well-behaved.
I've put very few rounds through it, three-hundred tops. However, out of that, my Mini-max has never failed to feed, fire or eject (though it likes to toss them straight back at me).

My Llama has been 100% reliable, just as my Kimber. Accuracy isn't near what the Kimber's capable of, but for what it was bought for (glovebox gun) it's accurate enough.

BTW, I bought mine NIB for $249 at a local gunshow.

As for advice pertaining to your specific question? Here's all I'll say:
I lucked out, I can't guarantee you will too. Unfortunately, purchasing a Llama is a crapshoot. :(

Llama with 185gr Golden Sabers, what it shoots best:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid41/pad2b84273eabdc93658fae868ae1dcfb/fcfb63ab.jpg

[usnavymasterchief]

Had one a couple of years ago and it was a POS. If you can get the guy to give you $284 to take it off his hands, then that would be a good deal and you should take it. Otherwise pass.
As was said, it is NOT a clone and finding parts, which you will surely need, is a pain in the sit down. Llamas have the worst magazines I have ever seen in over 50 years of playing guns.
Better think twice.

[Smoke]

Nope.

I've had two. Neither one ever failed to go bang. Just couldn't stand to look at them or hold them. WOrst fit and finish I've ever seen. Sold them to an occasional shooter that likes them. I didn't.

Smoke

[Penman]

Save your money.

[10mmshooter]

I had a Mini-Max .45 ACP, and it was the worst gun I have ever owned....bar none! JHP's were out of the question, and even after $100 worth of professional smithing...ball ammo was a single shot proposition.
The best I can ever remember it doing was 3 rounds without a malfunction. I would rather have a Raven .25 auto, or even a Lorcin 9mm than to ever purchase another Llama pistol. If I were you, I would either save the money for a decent gun, or just swallow your pride, and get a Hi-Point.
You could really luck-out, and get a good one, but I think my money would be safe in my pocket if I were to place a bet against it. I have never personally seen a reliable Llama, and would never encourage anyone to waste their hard earned money on one. Just my NSHO.:barf:

[George Hill]

I like liliysdad's suggestion.

[The Kidd]

BULL,

I have 2 Llamas, a full size and a compact. With approx 2k rounds between them I have a total of ONE failure. The Mini-Max stovepiped once. Buy it, clean it, shoot it. It will function flawlessly on Wolf ammo too.

[Kestrel]

jsalcedo,

That shop is about $289 too high. Maybe $300 too high.

A sharp stick or a ninja throwing star would be better.

Steve

[usnavymasterchief]

BULL says THE KIDD: SIR, you are one lucky dude to have 2000 rounds of the worlds worst ammo fire flawlessly in one of the worlds worst pistols:barf:

[Baron Holbach4]

If the Llama is your first gun purchase, move on to a better selection. If you are a collector and money is not an issue, then, yes, buy it.

[WonderNine]

$289 for a Llama???

Pass...

Save a few more pennies and get yourself a Springfield Mil-Spec.

[Badger Arms]

Wow, only a single positive response so far?

I'll second a suggestions others have made. If you want cheap, go with a Hi-Point. These are respectable slabs of metal that work. Look like crap, but you aren't buying it for the price. If you want a single-action that looks like a 1911, pay the extra for a Rock Island, Springfield, or even a Kahr / Auto Ordnance for that money. If it doesn't work, it's still a 1911 and can be made to work by virtually any competent gunsmith. I wouldn't say the same about a "Yamma." BTW, Kahr warranty applies to their 1911's for one year and the original purchaser. I'd still stay away from any gun ever touched by the former Auto Ordnance people. Are they making new guns now, or have I been led astray? I'll ask them at the Shot Show!!!

[jsalcedo]

Thanks for all the responses. I figured since Bersas are highly regarded and they are advertised with Llamas then Llamas might be ok now.

It was a very cool looking gun but now I'll go loking for a rock island, firestorm, or springfield. I already have a sistema, Charles daly and a P90 and I love them all.

[WonderNine]

I thought the auto ordinances were pot metal guns or something like that....

[The Kidd]

I may regret this in the morning...

I really like this site, I have learned a lot of useful things, but...

Sometimes some of you irritate me. I know that Llamas have a bad reputation with some of you. I also know that mine are good pistols. If you buy a $1500 1911 and then send it off for another $1000 worth of tuning you brag and post pictures. If you can buy a $300 handgun that is completely reliable out of the box it's a "POS". What gives?

I also own a Kimber Custom II other than the $100 night sights and the external extractor they are very much alike.

I want to buy a Rock Island and, if I win the lottery, an actual Colt. I know I'll not change any minds here but I think he should buy the Llama.

[Snowdog]

Kidd,

I wouldn't take it personal. After all, Llama does have a pretty checkered reputation. I know of three other Llama owners personally. One is completely happy with his Micromax and the other two admit to having problems with reliability. For me, that makes it two and two.
Knowing that, I can't personally recommend a Llama purchase unless the buyer is willing take the gamble.

However, I do understand your exasperation concerning some of the replies. No one wants to hear anyone calling what they own a POS, junk, etc. Some communicate by stating their experiences, other by condemning the model/brand in general. Don't sweat it. They get bit just the same when others subscribing to the same methods offend them in the same manner.

Certainly don't let that chase you off!

[wally]

I'll not argue about Llama being perhaps the worst gun maker that has somehow stayed in business for 20+ years (beats me as to how!).

But Wolf ammo works well for me for everything but .380 (9mm, 9mm Mak, 40S&W, 45ACP, 7.62x39, & .223 functions well). I blow thru lots of Wolf 45ACP in my full auto Thompson SMG with no problems beyond the occasional dud primer. I've shot worse that cost more -- UMC "yellow box" .223 cases lacked neck tension and bullets pushed into the case instead of feeding in several AR's we tried.

I do like the looks of the Llama mini-max .380 -- kind of a shrunk 1911, if it were made by anyone other than Llama I'd have one.

As far as I know Bersa is from Argentina, Llama from Spain, the importer uses a common web site for both. The Argentine economy is in the toilet so their best stuff can be had cheap, the Dollar is in the toilet against the Euro so Llama's can't be anything but the cheapest of the cheapest that can be made.

--wally.

[usnavymasterchief]

Hey KIDD, I apologize if I offended you with my comments and I agree with SNOWDOG that no one wants to hear someone call their pistol a POS. So hopefully you will accept my apology and don't let surley remarks like mine run you out of the forum, OK?
Having said all that, I owned one of the Micro-Max or Mini-Max .45ACP's a couple of years ago. I agree it looked cool and that's why I bought it. Once I got it home and field stripped it and inspected it very closely, I could see why it only cost me $250 brand new, it was rather crude. At the range it would constantly FTF or FTE. The point of impact was WAY off from point of aim. In actual fact, mine truly was a POS. I am pleased that yours and other's perform well but again I could not recommend one to any one as their first gun.
I also owned a Llama Micro-Max .380 years ago, you know the one that looks like a scaled dowm 1911. The slide was so stiff that it was very difficult to rack and frequently would not go into battery.I had to take it completely apart and literally file and sand down it's innards to get it to function. The gun had never received a drop of lube at the factory and everything inside was metal to metal. The feed ramp looked as tho it was finished with a rat tail file, really bad. The original magazine fell apart in my hands while trying to load it as did two replacement mags that I purchased. Mine was a Duo-Tone and the "nickle" plating started to peel and flake less than a month after I bought it. I paid $178 for it and sold it for $50.
Unless remarkable things have taken place in Spain to improve their metalurgy and machining skills I would again not be able to recommend a Llama product to anyone.
Llamas and Bersas are imported by the same company in New Jersey. Bersas are not manufactured by Llama.

[The Kidd]

Thanks guys, I don't want to look like a baby here so I'll say that I bought both Llamas within the last two years. Maybe they've improved. They give a lifetime free repair policy. OK you have to send them to Spain or something? Also I lied by ommision earlier. I tried those lightweight Winchester HPs and neither pistol fed them 100% Neither did the Kimber. BUT they will eat any brand of ball and seem especilly fond of Golden Sabre HP, but who can afford to plink with those? Also someone mentioned that the Mini-Max will throw empties right 'tween your eyes at least one time per session and I will testify to that. Another reason to wear glasses.

Well, I will stay tuned to see what you buy and how you like it.

Did I mention I also own and shoot Mosin Nagant rifles, also with Wolf ammo?