Question about a felony and deferred ajudication


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possom813
August 19, 2011, 05:24 AM
If you get charged with a felony, received deferred ajudication, completed the ajudication sentence, can you then buy a firearm?

Guys at work were talking and I got to wondering:what:

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Bubba613
August 19, 2011, 06:08 AM
I would think the answer is yes. The issue is whether somene was convicted ornot. Tht sounds like no conviction.

vaherder
August 19, 2011, 07:53 AM
Depends on your state and what type of deferred adjudication it really is.
Is it Probation before judgment, probation and on good behavior the record will be expunged etc. Or is it a federal charge???? Was the case nolle prossed or what?

Exact charge is also important.

You may to pay the an ambulance chasing shyster to find out if you can purchase a firearm. Just too many variables to give an answer.

A deferred adjudication is not the same as being found not guilty or the prosecution refusing to pursue. The charge di go to trial right?

AlexanderA
August 19, 2011, 08:14 AM
"Deferred adjudication" means that the charges are dropped if the conditions of good behavior, etc., are satisfied. Ergo, no conviction and nothing to be expunged. This is actually a pretty good deal for a defendant. It's typically offered for a first offense, a relatively minor charge, and where the guy has a clean record up to that point.

Purgatory
August 19, 2011, 08:18 AM
In Texas, yes, no problem since it was 'not' a felony 'conviction.'

Buy as many guns as you like as often as you want 'after' the adjudicated probation term is completed.

But you can never get a CHL.

Ergo, no conviction and nothing to be expunged.

Not the case in Tx. In Tx, the 'felony charge' will always be on record for anyone who does a criminal background check to see--unless a lawyer systematically has it expunged.

AlexanderA
August 19, 2011, 10:00 AM
Is it reasonable to deny a CHL for a mere "charge" or a mere "arrest"? What if you're actually found not guilty? (BTW, speaking of arrest, in some places it doesn't count as an "arrest" if you find out about the pending charges against you and voluntarily turn yourself in to the authorities and are released on your own recognisance.) It seems to me that if a CHL is denied for reasons such as this, a lawyer could straighten things out by getting the record expunged, etc.

Purgatory
August 19, 2011, 11:19 AM
Is it reasonable to deny a CHL for a mere "charge" or a mere "arrest"? ..../ /....It seems to me that if a CHL is denied for reasons such as this, a lawyer could straighten things out by getting the record expunged, etc.

To sum up 'MY' personal answer, AA, when it comes to the legal system, all bets are off.

The system varies state by state, city by city, judge by judge, DA by DA and sometimes even more random than that.

But, specifically in Texas, at least for about the last 10-15 years, a felony charge is not just a 'mere charge.' It's substantial. Job applications 'used-to' ask if you have ever been 'convicted' of a felony, etc.

Now, since within that time frame, they have reworded them to read: Have you ever been 'charged' with a felony or certain misdemeanors, etc.

So, it has been made more serious, or at least more permanent and more visible on records and even if a lawyer 'can' get it expunged, it will 'always' be visible to any form or extension of law enforcement. It just won't be visible to employers, apartment complexes, landlords or leasing services, etc.

And therefore, a CHL will always be out of reach for someone with a 'felony charge' of any kind unless something in the laws change or your lawyer can pull some hard to reach strings.

P.S. Just to clarify: If you actually go forth with an actual trial, which doesn't pertain to the OP, you are 'supposed' to be cleared if you are found 'not guilty.' But many applications for various things do still ask if you have ever been 'charged' with a felony or certain specific misdemeanors. And many innocent, and subsequently released, wrongfully accused prisoners are still waiting for the legal system to clear their records. It's just a mess. As is life.

tyeo098
August 19, 2011, 05:06 PM
The Virginia qualifications for a CHL say nothing about charges. Only convictions. Like it should.

Cops can 'charge' and 'arrest' you for anything they can convince a judge of (trust me Ive been on that losing end) its takes a jury (or a pretty good lawyer) to either clear things up, or mess things up.

EDIT:

And because NavyLCDR will call me out on it, heres the cite from 18.2-308 Winchester.

Aside from being addicted to pot, being insane, or being a felon, you cant get a CHL if you are:

7. An individual who has been convicted of two or more misdemeanors within the five-year period immediately preceding the application, if one of the misdemeanors was a Class 1 misdemeanor, but the judge shall have the discretion to deny a permit for two or more misdemeanors that are not Class 1. Traffic infractions or reckless driving shall not be considered for purposes of this disqualification.
http://vagunforum.net/carrying/concealed-handgun-permit-virginia-requirements-t16.html

Lucky for me, it was just 1 Class 1 Misdemeanor.

dogtown tom
August 19, 2011, 06:42 PM
Purgatory: ....But, specifically in Texas, at least for about the last 10-15 years, a felony charge is not just a 'mere charge.' It's substantial. Job applications 'used-to' ask if you have ever been 'convicted' of a felony, etc.

Now, since within that time frame, they have reworded them to read: Have you ever been 'charged' with a felony or certain misdemeanors, etc.
Not true. Federal law prohibits asking about arrests or "charges", but permits the job application to ask about convictions.


And therefore, a CHL will always be out of reach for someone with a 'felony charge' of any kind
Texas law prohibits no such thing. An arrest is a "charge" and does not affect your ability to get a Texas CHL one bit. A "charge" is not a conviction.

A felony CONVICTION on the other hand does.

Purgatory
August 19, 2011, 07:46 PM
Because the OP didn't even ask anything about a CHL, I'll keep this as brief as possible to address the debated points and will not debate it any further beyond this post.

An arrest is a "charge" and does not affect your ability to get a Texas CHL one bit.

Dogtown, if you believe this, you have no 'real-world' experience with the Texas legal system at all.

My information is not considered from what is printed in any law books or anything you may have heard on the news or in a class. It comes from absolute factual experience with individuals who have been "ram-rodded through the court system" -as Massad Ayoob so eloquently put it.

But if you truly wish to prove this point to 'yourself,' seek out one, ONE, individual in the state of Texas who has had a 'felony charge' for ANYthing and has successfully acquired a CHL.

If you find them, then, well, more power to 'em.

In my experience, someone in the exact situation that the OP articulated will 'not' be granted a license to carry a concealed handgun on their person in the state of Texas.

A "charge" is not a conviction.



A 'deferred adjudication' ruling is a different kind of ruling than most are familiar with. It 'can' have confusing aspects in the manner that it affects future judgments, etc. Just because it is not a felony 'conviction' isn't really the end of the story in one of these instances.

And here is a perfect example. A Texas State Application asking about a conviction OR 'deferred adjudication.'

Have you ever been convicted of a felony or subjected to deferred adjudication on a felony charge?

http://www.twc.state.tx.us/jobs/gvjb/stateapp.pdf


I, myself, have seen 'plenty' of applications over the years that ask about 'charges,' not just convictions--regardless of what you've 'read' or 'believe.'

dogtown tom
August 19, 2011, 09:50 PM
Purgatory,

Again, you confuse "charge" with conviction..... they are not the same.

You need to speak with ANY law enforcement officer or attorney and discover the difference between:

1. being arrested and charged with a crime
versus
2. being arrested, charged AND convicted of a crime
versus
3. being arrested, charged, pleading guilty and accepting deferred adjudication from the judge as an alternative to the judge finding you guilty and imposing punishment.

In Texas deferred adjudication is a type of probation that differs from regular probation in that it does not show as a conviction upon completion...instead it shows as "deferred adjudication". In deferred adjudication the defendant pleads guilty, but the judge defers the finding of guilt. If the defendant accepts deferred adjudication and fails to successfully complete the probationary period the judge can impose the full penalty of the charge.

You ignore the possibility for someone to be arrested, charged and found not guilty at trial.

Sorry, but asking me to show you "one person who has had a felony charge and acquired a CHL" is impossible as those records are confidential and cannot be accessed by the public. It is also meaningless....Texas is a "shall issue" state. Meaning if you meet the requirements of Texas law the applicant will be issued a Texas CHL.

Simply having an arrest record means NOTHING. There must be a disposition that disqualifies the CHL applicant. (such as a conviction)

Example:
Joe Public wants to get his Texas CHL:
In 1992 he was arrested and charged with grand theft auto. Joe was found not guilty.
In 1998 he was arrested and charged with murder. He was found not guilty.
In 2008 Joe was arrested and charged with bank robbery. The district attorney dropped all charges before trial.

Joe is eligible to apply for a Texas CHL because he has no convictions....yet note that Joe was charged in all three instances.

John Doe wants to get his Texas CHL:
In July, 2011 he was arrested and charged with DUI (3rd offense, a felony in Texas). He decides to fight the charge and is scheduled for trial in September.
John is ineligible to apply for his CHL because his case is pending trial. If convicted....no chl. If found not guilty...he's eligible.


Im sorry but your supposed "real world" knowledge of Texas law and criminal justice is suspect. Again, you need to understand that simply being "charged" with a crime is not a disqualifier.....and thank the Lord for that. If it were can you imagine the outrage that the innocent were permanently barred from their civil rights merely by being arrested?


Texas CHL Regulations: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/InternetForms/Forms/CHL-16.pdf



GC 411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter:
(1) "Action" means single action, revolver, or semi-automatic action.
(2) "Chemically dependent person" means a person who frequently
or repeatedly becomes intoxicated by excessive indulgence in alcohol
or uses controlled substances or dangerous drugs so as to acquire a fixed
habit and an involuntary tendency to become intoxicated or use those substances
as often as the opportunity is presented.
(3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which
is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.
(4) "Convicted" means an adjudication of guilt or, except as provided
in Section 411.1711, an order of deferred adjudication entered against
a person by a court of competent jurisdiction whether or not the imposition
of the sentence is subsequently probated and the person is discharged
from community supervision. The term does not include an adjudication
of guilt or an order of deferred adjudication that has been subsequently:
(A) expunged;
(B) pardoned under the authority of a state or federal official; or
(C) otherwise vacated, set aside, annulled, invalidated, voided,
or sealed under any state or federal law.
(4-a) "Federal judge" means:
(A) a judge of a United States court of appeals;
(B) a judge of a United States district court;
(C) a judge of a United States bankruptcy court; or
(D) a magistrate judge of a United States district court.
(4-b) "State judge" means:
(A) the judge of an appellate court, a district court, or a county court
at law of this state;
(B) an associate judge appointed under Chapter 201, Family Code;
or
(C) a justice of the peace.
(5) "Handgun" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.01, Penal
Code.
(6) "Intoxicated" has the meaning assigned by Section 49.01, Penal
Code.
(7) "Qualified handgun instructor" means a person who is certified
to instruct in the use of handguns by the department.
(8) * [repealed by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 62, 9.02.]

GC 411.1711. CERTAIN EXEMPTIONS FROM CONVICTIONS. A
person is not convicted, as that term is defined by Section 411.171, if an
order of deferred adjudication was entered against the person on a date
not less than 10 years preceding the date of the person's application for
4 GC 411.172. TEXAS CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS
a license under this subchapter unless the order of deferred adjudication
was entered against the person for:
(1) a felony offense under:
(A) Title 5, Penal Code;
(B) Chapter 29, Penal Code;
(C) Section 25.07, Penal Code; or
(D) Section 30.02, Penal Code, if the offense is punishable
under Subsection (c)(2) or (d) of that section; or
(2) an offense under the laws of another state if the offense contains
elements that are substantially similar to the elements of an offense listed
in Subdivision (1).

GC 411.172. ELIGIBILITY. (a) A person is eligible for a license to
carry a concealed handgun if the person:
(1) is a legal resident of this state for the six-month period preceding
the date of application under this subchapter or is otherwise eligible for
a license under Section 411.173(a);
(2) is at least 21 years of age;
(3) has not been convicted of a felony;
(4) is not charged with the commission of a Class A or Class B misdemeanor
or equivalent offense, or of an offense under Section 42.01,
Penal Code, or equivalent offense, or of a felony under an information
or indictment;
(5) is not a fugitive from justice for a felony or a Class A or Class B
misdemeanor or equivalent offense;
(6) is not a chemically dependent person;
(7) is not incapable of exercising sound judgment with respect to the
proper use and storage of a handgun;
(8) has not, in the five years preceding the date of application, been
convicted of a Class A or Class B misdemeanor or equivalent offense or
of an offense under Section 42.01, Penal Code, or equivalent offense;
(9) is fully qualified under applicable federal and state law to purchase
a handgun;
(10) has not been finally determined to be delinquent in making a
child support payment administered or collected by the attorney general;
(11) has not been finally determined to be delinquent in the payment
of a tax or other money collected by the comptroller, the tax collector of
a political subdivision of the state, or any agency or subdivision of the
state;
(12) is not currently restricted under a court protective order or subject
to a restraining order affecting the spousal relationship, other than
a restraining order solely affecting property interests;
(13) has not, in the 10 years preceding the date of application, been
adjudicated as having engaged in delinquent conduct violating a penal
law of the grade of felony; and
(14) has not made any material misrepresentation, or failed to disclose
any material fact, in an application submitted pursuant to Section
411.174.
(b) For the purposes of this section, an offense under the laws of this
state, another state, or the United States is:
TEXAS CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS GC 411.172. 5
(1) except as provided by Subsection (b-1), a felony if the offense,
at the time the offense is committed:
(A) is designated by a law of this state as a felony;
(B) contains all the elements of an offense designated by a law
of this state as a felony; or
(C) is punishable by confinement for one year or more in a penitentiary;
and
(2) a Class A misdemeanor if the offense is not a felony and confinement
in a jail other than a state jail felony facility is affixed as a possible
punishment.
(b-1) An offense is not considered a felony for purposes of Subsection
(b) if, at the time of a person's application for a license to carry a
concealed handgun, the offense:
(1) is not designated by a law of this state as a felony; and
(2) does not contain all the elements of any offense designated by
a law of this state as a felony.
(c) An individual who has been convicted two times within the10-year
period preceding the date on which the person applies for a license of
an offense of the grade of Class B misdemeanor or greater that involves
the use of alcohol or a controlled substance as a statutory element of the
offense is a chemically dependent person for purposes of this section and
is not qualified to receive a license under this subchapter. This subsection
does not preclude the disqualification of an individual for being a chemically
dependent person if other evidence exists to show that the person
is a chemically dependent person.
(d) For purposes of Subsection (a)(7), a person is incapable of exercising
sound judgment with respect to the proper use and storage of a
handgun if the person:
(1) has been diagnosed by a licensed physician as suffering from
a psychiatric disorder or condition that causes or is likely to cause substantial
impairment in judgment, mood, perception, impulse control, or
intellectual ability;
(2) suffers from a psychiatric disorder or condition described by
Subdivision (1) that:
(A) is in remission but is reasonably likely to redevelop at a future
time; or
(B) requires continuous medical treatment to avoid redevelopment;
(3) has been diagnosed by a licensed physician, determined by a
review board or similar authority, or declared by a court to be incompetent
to manage the person's own affairs; or
(4) has entered in a criminal proceeding a plea of not guilty by reason
of insanity.
(e) The following constitutes evidence that a person has a psychiatric
disorder or condition described by Subsection (d)(1):
(1) involuntary psychiatric hospitalization;
(2) psychiatric hospitalization;
(3) inpatient or residential substance abuse treatment in the preceding
five-year period;
6 GC 411.173. TEXAS CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS
(4) diagnosis in the preceding five-year period by a licensed physician
that the person is dependent on alcohol, a controlled substance,
or a similar substance; or
(5) diagnosis at any time by a licensed physician that the person
suffers or has suffered from a psychiatric disorder or condition consisting
of or relating to:
(A) schizophrenia or delusional disorder;
(B) bipolar disorder;
(C) chronic dementia, whether caused by illness, brain defect,
or brain injury;
(D) dissociative identity disorder;
(E) intermittent explosive disorder; or
(F) antisocial personality disorder.
(f) Notwithstanding Subsection (d), a person who has previously
been diagnosed as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition
described by Subsection (d) or listed in Subsection (e) is not because
of that disorder or condition incapable of exercising sound judgment
with respect to the proper use and storage of a handgun if the person
provides the department with a certificate from a licensed physician
whose primary practice is in the field of psychiatry stating that the psychiatric
disorder or condition is in remission and is not reasonably
likely to develop at a future time.
(g) Notwithstanding Subsection (a)(2), a person who is at least 18
years of age but not yet 21 years of age is eligible for a license to carry
a concealed handgun if the person:
(1) is a member or veteran of the United States armed forces, including
a member or veteran of the reserves or national guard;
(2) was discharged under honorable conditions, if discharged
from the United States armed forces, reserves, or national guard; and
(3) meets the other eligibility requirements of Subsection (a) except
for the minimum age required by federal law to purchase a handgun.
(h) The issuance of a license to carry a concealed handgun to a
person eligible under Subsection (g) does not affect the person's ability
to purchase a handgun or ammunition under federal law.

p35
August 20, 2011, 09:55 PM
Last year I was representing a guy who had been convicted of robbery in Georgia and done several years in prison for it. The issue was whether it counted as a "strike" so that he was going to get life without parole on the charge I was defending. After a fair amount of research I discovered that his Georgia sentence was some sort of deferred adjudication and not actually a conviction.

Which is another way of saying that the answer will definitely vary from state to state.

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