[TwoWheelFiend]

Anyone ever read any Jeff Cooper books? Ive been a big fan of his writing for quite some time and if you've never read one of his books, and you like guns and hunting i'd suggest you pick one up.
I thought To ride, shoot straight and speak the truth was his best work. But there all great.

opinions? I'm sure there are a few people here who are not Cooper fans, haha. I happen to agree with his simplified, no bs opinions about guns.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e0/Coljeffcooper.jpg

[Vonderek]

"Cooper's Corner" was the only reason I kept up my subscription to G&A, even in spite of the magazine's obvious slavish reviews of advertiser's products. When the Colonel died, I let my subscription lapse.

[natman]

While I don't agree with everything he ever wrote, I'm a big fan. I think I've read all his books except the newer Shotluck and Yukon Journal.

Always a great read.

[SaxonPig]

He was a giant of his era.

I don't agree with him 100% but there was nothing phony or half-assed about the man. He stood up and spoke his mind.

He is the father of modern combat handgun shooting and training.

[Double Naught Spy]

I always found it interesting how a guy like Cooper could become accepted as an expert on combat-related things with no experience in combat. I can't recall him ever having been in a pistol fight or in direct battlefield experience, Cooper being in the rear echelon hierarchy.

[Wil Terry]

I always found it interesting how a guy like Cooper could become accepted as an expert on combat-related things with no experience in combat. I can't recall him ever having been in a pistol fight or in direct battlefield experience, Cooper being in the rear echelon hierarchy.
THIS IS TOTALLY INCORRECT. HE was in combat and killed two japs with a pistol. One fell to a Colt SAA 45 and the other to a Colt 1911 45

[Onmilo]

I met Jeff Cooper.
I like Jeff Cooper.
Don't agree with everything the man had to say.
Feel the same about Bill Clinton but never met him in person.

Read this and decide.
http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/01/yankee-gun-nuts/shooting-instructors-so-to-speak-jeff-cooper-vs-massad-ayoob/

[The Lone Haranguer]

He was and is enjoyable to read and there are a number of positives to take away, but don't believe everything. Some things, like "throwing away" the first double-action shot of a DA/SA autoloader, are outright ridiculous.

[Smokey Joe]

I understand that the man had a lot of wisdom to impart. I understand that he had vast experience. But I've never read any Cooper beyond his opening lines, which always seem to be a variation of: "Okay, stupids, here it is, now listen up because I know The Way, and everything you think you know is <deleted>."

I may not be (correction, AM not) as widely experienced as Cooper, but the things I do know, the experience I do have, and my own intelligence, I value.

I cannot abide having it implied that I know nothing of value if it disagrees in any way with the writer.

I am an experienced teacher of 32 years, myself. Cooper's attitude is no way to begin a lesson.

My time on this earth is limited. There are better uses for it than voluntarily being aggravated by "THE self-proclaimed, one-and-only, expert." I do not read Cooper any more. There are other, less arrogant, sources for the gun/shooting/reloading information I seek.

[bannockburn]

Like others here, I liked most of the Colonel's journalistic efforts but didn't always agree with everything he said. I did find his style of writing, his conviction in speaking his mind (along with his willingness to stand by his beliefs), and his old school approach to life in general, to be his greatest assets. Was he always right? No, not always. Did he speak from a position of knowledge and authority? Yes, I believe he did. I for one enjoyed what Jeff Cooper had to offer, in terms of his insight and his experiences.

[SharpsDressedMan]

Cooper adopted the "OK. Here it is." thing from the military. It is a common practice to exude confidence and experience by acting like you have it all. Most instructors in the military use this positive approach because it saves time, cuts to the point, and moves on to the next topic with little resistance. It is just one manner of instruction. Cooper probably felt because he had taken the time to research gun related topics and experiment that few had gone as far, or everyone would arrive at the same answer, and as in most things scientific, that is about 95% true. However, along comes the other 5%. Sometimes, someone adds to your results, or finds fault with them. I'd say Cooper was at least 95% right about the things he expounded about, and that is probably a whole hell of a lot better than most of us do. There were guys who DID get his attention, with well though out arguments, and new or more complete data. An educated, well-to-do, and well read man, Cooper brought a lot to the table, including pride and attitude. He also brought professionalism, composure, and insight. Take him for what he was; a powerful and interesting influence on the sport and profession of shooting.

[SlamFire1]

We owe Cooper a lot.

Particularly in the attempt to get reality into combat shooting.

Bullseye shooting was "the" combat course from pre 1900 to, I don't know when that ended, might have been the 70's. The Army practiced on the Bullsye targets, people began to think that represented combat.

Anyone handled pre WW2 pistols with their thin tiny sights? Those sights are small because a six O'Clock hold is the best post position in Bullseye pistol, not because thin sights are the best in combat.

I am certain Cooper took a lot of abuse from the conservative powers that be. They did not like giving up their one hand Bullseye pistol holds, I am certain there were other things because the shooting community was very resistant to change.

Cooper seemed to stay a M1911 fan boy throughout his life. Considering how awful contemporary pistols were in the 50's/60's/70's, I can understand this, at least up to the Glock era.

[wlewisiii]

I like "Art of the Rifle". Beyond that, I prefer others, especially Mr. Keith & Mr. Skelton.

[Kliegl]

That article has a lot of bias.....the mediocre CZ75...my foot.

[sansone]

Mr. Cooper helped design the "Bren Ten" 10mm handgun about 30yrs ago.
new caliber back then, my buddy HAD to have one, and did so.
Told many stories of Mr. Cooper, all interesting

[Kendal Black]

I don't agree with everything Cooper had to say, but he argued his positions so well that disagreeing forces me to think things through very carefully.

Every rifleman should read and study The Art of the Rifle. The Commentaries (http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHNV_enUS400US400&aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=jeff+cooper's+commentaries) are entertaining at the least and sometimes contain usefully thought-provoking ideas.

[Bobson]

HE was in combat and killed two japs with a pistol.
While I can appreciate your ability to make a point without the use of a racial slur (oh wait), I think you'll find that having one combat experience is about as helpful as having no combat experience whatsoever, in regards to becoming an expert on anything combat-related. You may as well have argued that, "He could be an expert because he was in combat once. He shot a Japanese man during a drunken bar fight."

[SharpsDressedMan]

Any man that has or had witnessed the torture that the JAPanese inflicted on our guys in WWII can call them whatever they want, and my Dad called them Japs (I'm sure even that would be a euphemism compared to the other names.). I hope the the new generations of Japanese are more humane than that earlier one.

[sansone]

^^ yes sir +1

[SaxonPig]

SJ- Marine Corps Lt. Colonels tend to exhibit a bit of attitude even without Cooper's other accomplishments (graduate degree from Stanford; numerous books; hundreds of articles; recognized as a master instructor, etc.; etc.; I allow people to brag when they can back it up. Cooper could back it up.

[9mmepiphany]

He was a giant of his era.

I don't agree with him 100% but there was nothing phony or half-assed about the man. He stood up and spoke his mind.

He is the father of modern combat handgun shooting and training.
I've read most of his works...used to look forward to Cooper's Corner in the back of Gun & Ammo...but I didn't always agree with him either.

I've read most of Ayoob's writings and it is easy to tell that he was trained as a writer...I didn't always agree with him either.

Of the two, I found Ayoob the better communicator (for entertainment I read Skelton)

Besides being a serious competitor, Ayoob was the moving force behind the study of Officer Survival and the After Action effects of being involved in a critical incident.

Just to be accurate for folks not old enough to have been alive:

Cooper was the father of The Modern Technique of the Pistol, not modern combat handgun techniques and training...as a matter of fact he was always somewhat dismissive of anything that evolved from what he taught.

He didn't invent most of what he taught...many of those techniques have either been surpassed or dismissed as unsafe...but what he did was gather the best available and put it together so it could be presented as a package; much like Bill Gates did in the PC world

[Vonderek]

I think you'll find that having one combat experience is about as helpful as having no combat experience whatsoever,
I've had to read this several times and it is still about the most bizarre thing I have read in a while. Pray tell us how many combat experiences one must have before one is deemed to have combat experience?
Vonderek-the-Politically-Correct-Honky-Gringo-Kraut

[230RN]

SharpsDressedMan observed,

Cooper adopted the "OK. Here it is." thing from the military. It is a common practice to exude confidence and experience by acting like you have it all. Most instructors in the military use this positive approach because it saves time, cuts to the point, and moves on to the next topic with little resistance. It is just one manner of instruction.

Reminds me of the old teaching method:

"First I'm gonna tell ya what I'm gonna tell ya, then I'm gonna tell ya what I'm tellin' ya, then I'm gonna tell ya what I just told ya."

I gotta agree with the poster who mentioned that, right or wrong, acknowledged gun writers often provoke interesting independent thinking on the subject at hand.

Another of my favorites was Skeeter Skelton, with whom I disagreed sometimes. I also disagree with some of the modern firearms icons on some points. Nevertheless, they cause me to think.

Oh, sometimes I actually agree, too. Figured I'd better say that in words.

Gee, ya think R. Lee Ermy would ask me not to call my rifle a gun?

Politely?

Terry, 230RN

[9mmepiphany]

I can't recall him ever having been in a pistol fight or in direct battlefield experience, Cooper being in the rear echelon hierarchy.
HE was in combat and killed two japs with a pistol

Both of these are correct, depending on how you define combat.

IIRC, Cooper wrote that he was indeed assigned to a support role in the rear echelon of the theater. One of his shootings I clearly remember was when he happened on a lone Japanese soldier and shot him from ambush...I believe the other was also a lone soldier that he came across and shot.

He was not leading the troops under his command in a maneuver or repelling an attack when he shot at the enemy...he did not receive incoming/return fire in either case

[Bobson]

I think you'll find that having one combat experience is about as helpful as having no combat experience whatsoever
I've had to read this several times and it is still about the most bizarre thing I have read in a while. Pray tell us how many combat experiences one must have before one is deemed to have combat experience?
Quotes tend to work better when you understand the English language.
You can't pull half a sentence out of context and still expect it to make sense. What I said was,

"I think you'll find that having one combat experience is about as helpful as having no combat experience whatsoever, in regards to becoming an expert on anything combat-related."

My point was, experiencing anything one time isn't going to be enough to make a person an expert in that field. The conclusion to be drawn is that Cooper's expertise was not a product of his experience in combat, it was a product of his acquired knowledge over many years of his life.

Put more effort into understanding, and less effort into arguing, and things work out much more smoothly.

[ConstitutionCowboy]

For entertainment and solid common sense I like John Connor.

I've read very little Jeff Cooper, but someone once told me that something I once said reminded them of Jeff Cooper: My comment dealt with carrying concealed. I believe you should have 2 primary carry guns and one back-up. One should be on your strong side hip(at the 4:00 o'clock position for a righty, 8:00 for a lefty), one cross draw in a shoulder holster under your left arm for easy access while driving to be able to fend off a car jacker, and one in an ankle holster for access with either hand from most any position or condition you may find yourself, like in a heap on the ground, strong arm wounded, or somehow disarmed of your two primary carry guns.

My configuration consists of two Kimbers(a 4" Compact and a 3" RCP) and a laser-equipped LCP on the inside of an ankle. Wearing the BUG on the inside of an ankle makes it easily accessible with either hand.

Whatever part of that reminded them of Jeff Cooper I don't know.

Woody

[sansone]

we ARE talking about jeff cooper right?
situation awareness is what I rely on to feel safe

[TennJed]

I beg your pardon, I guess I misunderstood the way these things work.

Let's check for understanding to make sure I have it right:

Racism is just fine as long as I've seen someone of that race do something really bad. And that's the High Road approach.

I guess my parents just raised me wrong. Thanks for correcting 26 years of a wasted life. So many opportunities to be a racist that I've missed. I'll catch them from now on though, thanks to what I learned from your excellent example.

Please don't have children.


Could not agree more. Very well said. There are plenty of other place on the internet to be a racist. Let's please keep it off this board

I hope the the new generations of Japanese are more humane than that earlier one.

Did you think about that before you wrote it? As a white man from the south, some people of the generations before me did very inhumane things. I hope I am not judged upon their actions. I did none of those things. I expect to be judge on my own merits

[SharpsDressedMan]

Well since more than one can't figure it out, Jap is short for Japanese, Pole is short for Pollock, Jew is short for Jewish, Croate is short for Croatian, Arab is short for Arabian, etc. Now, I challenge you to make your case for anything derogatory about race associated with these abbreviations. By the way, I'm half Pole & Croate. Feel free to PM me, that way you can say what you really mean.

[Larry Ashcraft]

This seems to be following the path of circular argument.

Not to mention off topic.

Sometimes you folks disappoint the crap out of me.