could a 10mm push 135grs @ 2000fps?


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gofastman
August 20, 2011, 11:03 PM
Not that I plan on trying it, just wondering :what:

What would be needed to drive a 135gr Nosler up to 2000fps, more importantly, what would be needed so you could do it more than once :p

for fun, lets say were working with a G20, LWD 6.6" barrel, 24lb recoil spring, and some trimmed down 10mm Magnum brass
(MIL spec. safety glasses and a face shield, too)

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CraigC
August 21, 2011, 01:24 AM
What would be needed to drive a 135gr Nosler up to 2000fps...
More gun and more powder capacity. Dustin Linebaugh's heavy duty .38-40 Ruger Bisley with a custom oversized six shot cylinder pushes 180's@1800fps and 200's@1600fps. It could surely propel a 135gr at 2000fps. You could also do it in a late vintage Winchester 1892 .38-40 but what would be the point? I push them at 1600fps out of a Uberti 1873 Deluxe Sporting Rifle and they practically vaporize on contact.

loadedround
August 21, 2011, 09:49 AM
I would suspect that a jacketed bullet would tear itself apart in flight if you were able to fire it at that velocity. Pistol bullets were never designed to be fired at that velocity. It's also possible that your pistol would "let go" at the pressure required to drive that bullet at a velocity of 2000 fps.

bds
August 21, 2011, 10:06 AM
There's no SAAMI standard for 10mm 135 gr bullet? Most it's showing is 1410 fps for 155 jacketed HP bullet.

Here's the SAAMI standard pdf link (see page 15) - http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/205.pdf


I would suspect that a jacketed bullet would tear itself apart in flight if you were able to fire it at that velocity.
2000 fps? Page 16 of SAAMI pdf shows 1950 fps for 357 Rem Max with 158 gr SJHP, so I guess no worry about jacketed bullet disintegrating?

CraigC
August 21, 2011, 10:10 AM
Don't know what the bullet would do at 2000fps. I can tell you that they are extremely accurate out of that Uberti at 1600fps. Clustering into 1"@50yds. Great varmint load.

jfh
August 21, 2011, 11:44 AM
A few years ago one of the Handloader.com's members pursued this very question. The powder he used was 700X.

One of the moderators over there was able to guesstimate pressures for the loads. Some of us other posters who were familiar with the 10mm were following this closely, checking pressures, etc.

We finally reached the conclusion that one of the pressure peaks likely was over 60,000 psi. That was with a 135-gr. bullet running about 1700+ fps. So, I wouldn't recomment stretching for 2000, based on what my own Glock had looked like when I blew it up.

Jim H.

rcmodel
August 21, 2011, 11:47 AM
could a 10mm push 135grs @ 2000fps? No!

rc

918v
August 21, 2011, 01:28 PM
Why would you want to? Such a load woulf fragment the bullet and severely limit the penetration. On top of that, it would beat the crap out of your gun.

Steve Koski
August 21, 2011, 04:22 PM
He doesn't want to. He's just wondering.

Like sometimes I wonder what it would be like to swim in peanut butter.

Same idea.

918v
August 21, 2011, 05:36 PM
Well I'm wondering why anyone would want to. Like why would anyone wanna know what it is like swimming in peanut butter.

Steve Koski
August 21, 2011, 05:55 PM
He doesn't want to, he's just day dreaming.

Like that daydream you told me about, where you were eating your pillow.

918v
August 21, 2011, 06:05 PM
I never told you about that dream?

Anyways, driving a 135gr bullet out of a 10mm at 2000 FPS will KB a Glock for sure.

zxcvbob
August 21, 2011, 06:12 PM
How about a 145 grain bullet at 1600 fps with standard pressure? Doable using Power Pistol and cast bullets. Might can go a *little* faster using a compressed charge of a little slower powder (like 800X)

You might can get that 135 Nosler to 1700fps. No way to get it to 2000 without a longer barrel or a lot higher pressure.

918v
August 21, 2011, 06:21 PM
If there was a bullet with appropriate construction to survive a 1500 FPS+ impact then the project would be worthwhile. As it is, most pistol bullets are designed for 1200 FPS and 35000 PSI. Unless you plan on exploding rabbits, why even go there?

zxcvbob
August 21, 2011, 06:48 PM
If there was a bullet with appropriate construction to survive a 1500 FPS+ impact then the project would be worthwhile. That's the main reason I mentioned using a cast bullet instead of jacketed (also less barrel friction, but that's usually not an issue with pistol-length barrels)

Shmackey
August 21, 2011, 10:18 PM
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_24&products_id=46

GJgo
August 21, 2011, 10:27 PM
I've thought about seeing how fast I could cook a 135 out of my 6.5" 610, but I was thinking more like 1700-1800. Just because, I guess. :)

bds
August 21, 2011, 10:28 PM
From Shmackey's link -http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_24&products_id=46
The 9X25 is a high performance cartridge based on the 10mm. It fires a 9mm bullet at rifle velocities! Flat shooting and hard hitting!
Caliber : 9X25 Dillon
Bullet : 95gr. FMJ
Ballistics : 1990fps / 844 ft. lbs. - 6" Lone Wolf bbl
But this with a 95 gr bullet and not 135 gr. :D


Even with 125 gr bullet, it only produces 1700 fps (funny, "only" 1700 fps! :D) - http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_24&products_id=98
Caliber : 9X25 Dillon
Bullet : 125gr. FMJ-FP Match
Ballistics : 1700fps / 802 ft.lbs Lone Wolf 6" bbl

CraigC
August 21, 2011, 10:41 PM
Unless you plan on exploding rabbits, why even go there?
Like I said, excellent varmint load.

918v
August 22, 2011, 12:31 AM
A 454 Casull can launch 180gr JHP even faster.

56hawk
August 22, 2011, 01:40 AM
Wouldn't try it out of a Glock, but I did find someone that got 2025 fps out of an 18 1/2" barreled Thompson Contender.

Check out the pdf:
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15141163

CraigC
August 22, 2011, 04:21 PM
A 454 Casull can launch 180gr JHP even faster.
Dick Casull pushed 260's to 2000fps in .45Colt brass while developing the .454 but how is that relevant???

918v
August 22, 2011, 07:04 PM
It goes to show that shooting 135s in a 10 or 90s in a 9 or 185s in a 454 at full throttle serves no purpose other than making noise. Such loads are generally inaccurate, have excessive muzzle blast, and induce premature wear on the firearm. They are useless for anything but exploding vermin at close range which at best is a fantasy cuz you'll never get close enough to hit them.

gofastman
August 22, 2011, 07:26 PM
I mentioned trimming down 10mm magnum brass, would that help at all, or is the web area the same thickness?



This is a Nosler moving at 1700fps out of a LWD 4.6" barrel and stock recoil spring
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-n5GJjpF9Y


(see new terms and conditions on his web page, I don't want to be responsible for someone's face getting all blowed off)

LeonCarr
August 22, 2011, 09:33 PM
As 56Hawk mentioned, for a 135 grain bullet in a 10mm to hit 2000 fps a Contender or a custom barreled Encore would probably get you there without parts flying off.

I would probably pay money to watch what a 135 Nosler moving 2000 fps does to a prairie dog or a groundhog :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Steve Koski
August 22, 2011, 10:24 PM
Why, it would be almost like a rifle round hitting a prairie dog.

CraigC
August 22, 2011, 11:11 PM
It goes to show that shooting 135s in a 10 or 90s in a 9 or 185s in a 454 at full throttle serves no purpose other than making noise. Such loads are generally inaccurate, have excessive muzzle blast, and induce premature wear on the firearm. They are useless for anything but exploding vermin at close range which at best is a fantasy cuz you'll never get close enough to hit them.
Do you actually read the posts you respond to???

918v
August 23, 2011, 02:53 AM
Do you have anything on point?

CraigC
August 23, 2011, 09:21 AM
Yeah, I've actually used the bullet in question well above its intended velocity!!! And that...

It goes to show that shooting 135s in a 10 or 90s in a 9 or 185s in a 454 at full throttle serves no purpose other than making noise.
Wrong.


Such loads are generally inaccurate...
Wrong.


...have excessive muzzle blast...
Wrong.


...and induce premature wear on the firearm.
Wrong.


They are useless for anything but exploding vermin...
Correct.


...at close range...
Wrong.


...which at best is a fantasy cuz you'll never get close enough to hit them.
Wrong.

918v
August 23, 2011, 11:26 AM
That's so thorough, I dunno how I'm ever going to get through your response. But I can say that you obviously have not read my post carefully.

918v
August 23, 2011, 11:47 AM
Wrong.

I disagree with your assessment. My testing of this bullet as well as other light for caliber bullets through dozens of pistols in my younger years showed accuracy to be substandard. While it did not pattern like a shotgun, it did not shoot as well as 155-180s.

Wrong.

After I abandoned the quest for lightspeed, I noticed I broke my Glock, I scored the leade of my P226, I peened the hell out of the S&W...

Wrong.

What else was I going to say? Oh, yeah... Not everyone has your unbelievable shooting ability. In fact, it's quite rare especially given an inaccurate pistol/load combination.

Wrong.

Boy, I'm tired.

Anyway, it would be nice for you to support your position instead of just hatin' on 918v.

gofastman
August 23, 2011, 06:54 PM
gentlemen, please shake you junk and end this pissing contest.

ronterry
August 24, 2011, 06:23 PM
It's not cool when those bullets peel apart on you! I've taken shrap metal to the face on a couple occasion looking for hyperspace with the 10mm. Bleeding for bragging rights isn't my idea of progress.
If this becomes reality for you, than top it off with a compressed load of 800x, and tie a string to the trigger and remote detonate that IED from a safe distance.

ronterry
August 25, 2011, 12:48 AM
No need need to welcome me! My post count flipped over at 1,000,000... Sorry Koski & 918v!

918v
August 25, 2011, 04:26 PM
Welcome ronterry. I was gonna welcome you but the OP scared me away. I prefer 180s at a reasonable velocity. The CH

Steve Koski
August 25, 2011, 08:17 PM
Ronterry: Could a 1911 push a 135 grain at 2000 fps?

What if you welded up the feedramp and packed it with a tripple compressed load of 800X?

918v
August 25, 2011, 11:21 PM
Power Pistol. Need PP if you are gonna do any compressing.

jeepmor
August 27, 2011, 04:09 AM
Why? Death wish just plain....you finish that part for me.

DWFan
August 27, 2011, 12:02 PM
quote:
"Page 16 of SAAMI pdf shows 1950 fps for 357 Rem Max with 158 gr SJHP, so I guess no worry about jacketed bullet disintegrating?"

Anyone who has used the Remington 158gr SJHP .357 Maximum factory load (approx 1750 fps in a revolver, 1950 fps in a Contender) will tell you that bullet will fragment on game. That bullet was actually designed to expand at approx. 1200-1300 fps and works quite well even at lower velocities due to the large amount of exposed lead and the jacket design.

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