Rifle powder in .357 carbine??


PDA






Encoreman
August 21, 2011, 08:09 PM
Anyone use a true rifle powder like IMR-4895 to load for .357 magnum in a carbine? I haven't found any load data, just wondered if this slower burning powder would work in a carbine length barrel? Yes I do have load books, just asking. Thanks Mac

If you enjoyed reading about "Rifle powder in .357 carbine??" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
ljnowell
August 21, 2011, 08:28 PM
Kinda curious on what others have experienced, as having not done this myself. I am looking at a 45colt lever gun, and was thinking about this same thing.

res45
August 21, 2011, 08:56 PM
Rifle powders have to slow burn a burn rate for your run of the mill pistol cartridges like 357 and 45 LC. You couldn't pack enough into the case to ever match the MV your get from a lesser amount of pistol powders.

Stick to the load data and you will get a little added MV in a rifle barrel,there is specific rifle only load data for pistol cartridges in the Lyman load manual just make sure you mark it so you don't mix it up and shoot it in your handguns.

beatledog7
August 21, 2011, 09:22 PM
If you load .357 for both rifle and revolver, you'll want to devise a foolproof marking system to differentiate which rounds are rifle loads.

Walkalong
August 21, 2011, 09:48 PM
A couple of the very fast rifle powders make work OK, but 4895 is way to slow and bulky.

I have used 5477 in .357, but it cannot match slow pistol powders in velocity.

Use some AA #9, N110, H110, W296, or 2400.

R.W.Dale
August 21, 2011, 10:05 PM
The optimum propellant is determined by bore/case ratio and pressure rating. Barrel length is well after the fact. Excluding something extreme like 2" snubbies you simply won't find a better performing propellant for 357mag of any bbl length than the old h110-296 and similar standbys

Encoreman
August 21, 2011, 11:26 PM
Thanks for the replies, it was kinda what I expected. I appreciate picking your brains. Mac

ArchAngelCD
August 22, 2011, 04:07 AM
The slowest powder I would use in a .357 Magnum is Lil'Gun. Actually, Lil'Gun shines in the .357 Magnum when shot in the longer barrel of a Carbine. It generates 100 fps more than W296/H110 in the longer barrel.

Just because you are shooting the ammo in a rifle doesn't make it a rifle caliber. Caliber and cartridge characteristics and pressures don't match up to rifle calibers. A .357 Magnum currently has a pressure limit of 35,000 PSI whereas many rifle calibers can generate up to 60,000 PSI and sometimes even more. I don't think 4895 will work properly in a .357 Magnum case because the powder is so slow. (but I could be wrong)

DWFan
August 22, 2011, 06:49 AM
Hodgdon's list this load on its website...
158 GR. HDY XTP IMR 4227 14.5gr 1578fps 34,600 CUP 16.0gr 1668fps 42,600 CUP
Apparently they consider 4227 a viable powder, but I wouldn't use it. In the Maximum, yes; but not in the Magnum.

GooseGestapo
August 22, 2011, 10:14 AM
Both IMR and H4227 have long been excellent powders in the .357,.41 and .44magnum. Especially with cast bullets as it has a gentler pressure curve which obturates the lead bullets without "slamming" them upon ignition. Velocities are also excellent if perhaps 50fps slower than H110/Win296. Hodgdon Lil'Gun takes the next step on this angle and with it's longer (slower) pressure curve gives additional velocity.

FWIW: with a 158gr bullet (Hornady XTP and Remington soft points) I was able with 17.8gr of Lil'Gun with CCI#550 magnum primers get 2,150fps from a 20" bbl Win M94. And was very accurate. Sold the rifle due to feeding problems.... But may someday get a .357bbl for my Contender.

kelbro
August 22, 2011, 10:51 AM
Work up some Li' Gun loads and you will probably not worry about any more load development for that carbine.

Carl N. Brown
August 22, 2011, 11:18 AM
Since the case shapes are similar, I suspect powders recommended for .30 carbine would work for rifle loads in 357.

However, my copy of the Hornady reloading manual recommends H110, 2400, 296, IMR 4227 for both .30 carbine and 357.

From a rifle length barrel, commercial 357 loads I have checked jump from 1300 fps in revolver to 1800 fps in a rifle, a very substantial leap. The Hornady manual shows 357 reloaded with 158gr bullet & 14.2 gr Win 630 = 1250fps from 8 3/8" revolver and 1700 fps from a 23" rifle. Other loads and tests have shown increase of as much as 600fps between a 6" revolver and 20" carbine.

I don't see a need for a 357 rifle load with slower burning rifle powders, in part because I have both a revolver and a carbine in 357 and same ammo for both is a plus.

R.W.Dale
August 22, 2011, 01:01 PM
I'm going to be the voice of dissent with LIL GUN! In fact it was my nomination in the "worst powder" thread.

In two rifles this powder while fast in the FPS dpt was hard pressed to hold 5" @ 50yds. But the thing that scared me the most was the MASSIVE overpressure indications this propellant would produce even within published data. In come cases rendering NEW cases unreloadable after a single firing. I eventually gave up on the crap went back to h110-296 and in the process only gave up 80 fps or so and shrunk my groups by almost 75% and get to reload my cases a dozen times

kelbro
August 22, 2011, 01:55 PM
I'm going to be the voice of dissent with LIL GUN! In fact it was my nomination in the "worst powder" thread.

In two rifles this powder while fast in the FPS dpt was hard pressed to hold 5" @ 50yds. But the thing that scared me the most was the MASSIVE overpressure indications this propellant would produce even within published data. In come cases rendering NEW cases unreloadable after a single firing. I eventually gave up on the crap went back to h110-296 and in the process only gave up 80 fps or so and shrunk my groups by almost 75% and get to reload my cases a dozen times

And my results were the exact opposite! Very accurate and multiple reloads with no pressure indications. I was not using max loads, only about 90-95% of book. Marlin 1894C Cowboy Special and Hornady XTPs.

That's part of the fun (and frustration) of this hobby. So many variables and as has been said here many times, 'Works in my ___, YMMV.'

res45
August 22, 2011, 03:25 PM
No offense but IMR or H4227 has been a great powder for me in the 357 especially with cast bullet load,normally I use 2400. I always keep a lb. of 4227 around for a backup.

CraigC
August 22, 2011, 04:20 PM
I'll only echo what has already been said. The powders that yield the highest velocities in handguns will also yield the highest velocities in rifles. Barrel length is inconsequential. This is something VERY difficult to make folks understand when they make misguided statements about the .22Mag being loaded with rifle powders. Which is used as an argument against its use in handguns. Powders are chosen for the cartridge, not the barrel length.


Apparently they consider 4227 a viable powder...
4227 is very common in revolver cartridge handloading.

Walkalong
August 22, 2011, 06:04 PM
4227 works well in .44 Mag. I have never tried it in .357.

DWFan
August 23, 2011, 09:04 AM
Let me clarify something. I wouldn't use 4227 because of the pressure it develops. The load I posted is close to SAAMI maximum with starting level charges. In contrast, an H110 recipe from the same website is...
158 GR. HDY XTP H110 15.0gr 1619fps 28,600 CUP 16.7gr 1757fps 40,700 CUP
The H110 recipe is nearly 100 fps faster at a considerably lower pressure. Lower pressure means less stress on the weapon. In fact, the staring level load is only approx. 50 fps slower than the 4227 maximum level load with 33% lower pressure.

If you enjoyed reading about "Rifle powder in .357 carbine??" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!