[Bull Nutria]

primitive weapons seasons allow the use of these 3 calibers in single barrel hammer rifles in LA, what would be the caliber and rifle you would choose and why? what are the advantages of each caliber? Thompson Center contender and Encore not allowed.

Bull

[merlinfire]

well the 45-70 is probably the big man on campus here but .44mag will be easier to find ammo for.

[mdauben]

primitive weapons seasons allow the use of these 3 calibers in single barrel hammer rifles in LA, what would be the caliber and rifle you would choose and why?
Seems kind of an odd law. :confused:

The question is, what are you hunting? If its nothing larger than Whitetail Deer, I would probably go with the .44mag. IMO its pelenty enough for deer, especially in a rifle. The other two cartridges will obviously take down deer, too, but they are more expnsive and can be harder to find. They might provide a bit more range than the .44mag if thats an issue, but it could also be argued that the .45-70 at least is a bit of overkill for deer.

Just my thoughts on the issue. ;)

[trex1310]

In Mississippi I use an H&R .45-70 single barrel with Winchester
325 grain ammo.

[CraigC]

If deer hunting, all the .444 and .45-70 are going to offer over the .44Mag is range. The .44 loaded to full steam is good for 150yds. So if I needed more than that, I would opt for the .444 loaded with 240gr - 270gr Gold Dots as fast as they can be pushed. It is more efficient and will shoot flatter than the .45-70.

[Redlg155]

I looked at the regs for Louisiana and when compared to Fl, are strange indeed...
1. Rifles or pistols, .44 caliber minimum, or shotguns 10 gauge or smaller, all of which must load exclusively from the muzzle or cap and ball cylinder, use black powder or approved substitute only, take ball or bullet projectile only, including saboted bullets, including primitive firearms known as “in line” primitive firearms, and
2. Single shot, breech loading rifles, .38 caliber or larger of a kind or type manufactured prior to 1900 and replicas, reproductions or reintroductions of that type rifle having an exposed hammer that use metallic cartridges loaded either with black powder or modern smokeless powder. All of the above may be fitted with magnified scopes.


If given the choice, the 45-70 loaded with Hornady LeverEvolution Ammo. I use this ammo exclusively in my Marlin Guide Gun. I can get an honest 1"group from this ammo/gun combination. It even outshoots many of the bolt actions that I have owned.

[Sensai]

45-70 in a H&R HandiRifle.

[TonyAngel]

I don't hunt deer, but most of the guys that I know that do (for your purposes), opt for the .444, just because it shoots flatter.

[hardluk1]

If you will get even a very basic reloading kit like a lee challenger kit the 45/70 can do anything you may ever need.

[ball3006]

The 444 is a relative modern cartridge. I remember when that first came out. Go figure.....chris3

[Jonny V]

In between these two, the .444 just doesn't have much room. Sorry to say, it's a great caliber, chambered in some great lever actions. Problem is, the 45/70 is chambered in all the same lever guns, delivers a far more powerful payload, and is cheaper and easier to find on a shelf at the local "big box" store. The .44 mag rifles are just right "up to" deer. The 45/70 will kill any animal cleanly and quickly, on the North American continent. Contrary to some, it is NOT a "meat waster". You nail em with a 405 grainer, (I'm saying this thinking you can shoot. If you're as blind as Stevie Wonder, and can't put all your shots "on paper" then you don't need a gun.....) they're done kicking by the time they hit dirt, and you go scoop em up. What's not to like?

[303tom]

The .45-70 !

[Fullboar1]

Another vote for the 45-70. I got myself one of the new Marlin 1895 Big Loops in Stainless/Lamiate at the start of the year and so far I have shot around half a dozen decent sized pigs with it and I am not really impressed with the stopping power (my old Marlin 336 in 30-30 does more damage and drops them alot quicker). The 45-70 bullets just seems to blow right through them without opening up. I have only used factory ammo and stayed away from the big game type bullets and tried a few different brands of ammo with lightly constructed looking bullets (300 grain jacketed hollow or soft points) but they still seem to be still to heavy for soft skinned game. I was thinking more along the lines of maybe handgun (jacketed hollow and soft point) bullets. I dont really want to go to a straight lead bullet does anyone have any ideas?

PS: Sorry to highjack Bull just thought you might be intrested in what I have found so far with the 45-70.

[PreMod70]

You asked for my choice and I reload so the 45-70 wins hands down.

[Cop Bob]

Primitive? 44 Mag? I'm confused ????

45/70 get a nod from me....

[RickMD]

Primitive? 44 Mag? I'm confused ????


Me too.

[CraigC]

In between these two, the .444 just doesn't have much room.
I would surely disagree with that sentiment. With modern Marlins and their 1-20" twist, they can be utilized with 405gr LBT's which puts it firmly in .45/70 territory. Here we're talking about a bullet with a sectional density equal to a 460gr .45/70 only a couple hundred feet per second faster. That's bad news for most game in the world.


The .44 mag rifles are just right "up to" deer.
Likewise the .44Mag, it is CERTAINLY good for game larger than deer.

[Dr T]

The effective range on all of these is roughly the same. Since you are likely to be going after whitetails, it will come down to shot placement. Hunting in brush and swamps puts a premium on the placement.

One important consideration is recoil. A Handi-rifle is quite light. The 44 magnum will kick less--a lot less than the 45-70. It will be a lot more pleasant to shoot (unless you enjoy getting beat up). Also, the ammo is cheaper so you can practice more. It will be easier to become very proficient with the rifle.

I would take the 44 Magnum for this application. I think that it will be a more effective choice.

[hardluk1]

Bull Nutria What you going to shot. The H&R buffalo classic is one of the nice lower cost guns if legal. Put that long barrel to use with a 45/70.

I do own a single shot h&r 44 mag. Good rifle short, easy to shot well and accurate. Good out to around 125 yards with most standard mag loads.

[natman]

It's certainly true that a 45-70 can be loaded for more power than you can get out a 444. No question. The problem is that the OP is hunting in Louisiana and the odds of him running across anything big enough for the extra power to be an advantage are roughly equal to Dianne Feinstein being elected president of the NRA.

So hot 45-70 loads will offer no USEFUL power advantage and lots more recoil.

Go for a 444 IF you can find one that meets the requirements.

[Asherdan]

I have Marlins in 44 mag and 45-70 and I hunt manzanita choked hill sides for deer and our smallish black bear. The longest shot I've taken at game in the last five years is ninety yards. I carry the 44 mag more often and it's done plenty fine.

[HOOfan_1]

Primitive? 44 Mag? I'm confused ????

45/70 get a nod from me....

Yeah, .44-40, .45 Colt and .45-70, all cartridges designed for guns that came out in the year 1872/1873

The .30-30 is at least 60 years older than the .44 Magnum and they can't use that...

[CraigC]

It's certainly true that a 45-70 can be loaded for more power than you can get out a 444. No question. The problem is that the OP is hunting in Louisiana and the odds of him running across anything big enough for the extra power to be an advantage are roughly equal to Dianne Feinstein being elected president of the NRA.
I would agree to the underlined part for sure. Anything over 300gr is going to be more than is necessary. Which is why I would choose the .444 with 240gr-270gr Gold Dots for deer. Lightest the .45/70 can typically go is 300gr. However, I would like to add that a 405gr .444 at 2150fps is just as potent than a 405gr .45/70 and running a little faster with higher sectional density to boot. A .45/70 load with a comparable sectional density will not run near as fast. You just have to look beyond standard 265gr and 300gr loadings.

405gr .444 (SD .313) at 2150fps - 53.5TKO
405gr .45/70 (SD .276) at 2000fps - 53TKO
430gr .45/70 (SD .293) at 1925fps - 54.2TKO
500gr .45/70 (SD .341) at 1600fps - 52.3TKO

No sir, just as with the .44Mag vs. .45Colt, the .44's have caught up.


The effective range on all of these is roughly the same.
You get at least another 50yds out of the rifle cartridges with appropriate loads.

[Smokey in PHX]

With what you want to do I would go with the 44 Mag due to ammo availability, range, recoil, ammo cost, and ability to kill deer.

[Jonny V]

Certainly any one of the three calibers will fill the need. I see it as being almost a matter of availability. The .44 will kill any deer, and is the lowest cost of the three. The 45/70 is the most powerful, kind of moot point for LA sized game, unless they going for hogs, and the 444 is great, just not as widely available and also costlier (in my experience). Also, you will get a bit more range out of either of the rifle calibers, I think.....

[Gtscotty]

The H&R buffalo classic is one of the nice lower cost guns if legal.

I had the Buffalo classic in mind as well, although they run about 8 lbs, so it wouldn't be the absolute lightest rig if that's your bag. I'm sure either of those 3 cartridges will be fine for anything you might run into... I've always found the 45-70 to be really interesting, so I guess it would be an easy call for me.

Another option would be the compact buffalo classic in 45 colt... If you are a reloader, you could just pump out some heavy, fire breathing 45 colt loads.....

[Bull Nutria]

the 44mag is legal in because the law says .38 or larger. the gun is restricted to a hammer fired single shot. no modern designs like TC contender or encore. only replicas of a gun designed before 1900 or so.

I really don't think any metallic cartridge gun is primitive and the new in line muzzleloaders with 209 primers are all legal in LA. there isn't much primitve about any of the so called "legal " weapons for our LA primitive hunts. I think it could be simplified by changing it to a "single shot"season. Or just call it "a use any legal weapon season".

i would get a 44mag because i already have the dies and it will kill deer very satifactorily at the less than 50 yds shots that are most common in LA's thick brush.

FYI,I asked the question for a friend who is going to purchase a metallic cartridge rifle soon. thanks for all the replies and opinions.

Bull

[lobo9er]

44 mag unless you want more ompf than go with the 45/70. Alot of deer go down with a 44 revolver from what i understand so its prolly all you would need.

[Jonny V]

While we're talking range here, Elmer Keith killed a bull elk with one shot at 600 yards with a 4" .44 mag. How's that for range?.......I know, I don't shoot near as good as Elmer Keith either......:cuss:

[FrankieJames7]

444 marlin

[hardluk1]

natman AND the 45/70 can be loaded very light also. Even buy factory loads that are mild .

[CraigC]

While we're talking range here, Elmer Keith killed a bull elk with one shot at 600 yards with a 4" .44 mag. How's that for range?
Elmer Keith killed a wounded mule deer with a 6½" .44Mag. Took six shots, if I remember correctly, three were hits. Last of which was at 600yds.

[Scipio Africanus]

Unquestionably the 45-70. It is the most versatile, with bullets from 250-550 grains, you can hunt anything from squirrels to buffalo. It can be suprisingly flat shooting (try the Hornady 325 FTX) and has a better overall bullet selection that any .44 caliber cartridge.

Have fun and good luck.