Bowen and Freedom Arms


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AbitNutz
August 23, 2011, 09:05 PM
It appears that Bowan has improved on the Mona Lisa. I couldn't find it on their site if that looped hammer is available for the Freedom Arms Model 84. I only saw it for the Model 97.
Anyone?

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Brian Williams
August 24, 2011, 10:52 AM
Links?

Gordon
August 24, 2011, 10:56 AM
Bowen?

Sam1911
August 24, 2011, 11:35 AM
I believe he's talking about this: http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/catalog/freedom_arms_packages.html

Though... while I have enormous respect for Mr. Bowen and his company ... there's no way in the big wide world I'd put that hammer on a SA revolver...

Just my tastes, of course.

Sam1911
August 24, 2011, 11:38 AM
It is listed as an option here: http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/catalog/freedom_arms_options.html

"F500" for $295.

They even call it a "commander style" hammer. Very strange. A bit like an EOTech on a Sharps rifle. :confused:

The Lone Haranguer
August 24, 2011, 12:49 PM
That looks wrong. :scrutiny: But, if you must put such a thing on your revolver, he is the one to do it.

Sam1911
August 24, 2011, 01:01 PM
Bowan has improved on the Mona Lisa

Indeed! "Love the monocle and mustache, Mona!" :D

AbitNutz
August 24, 2011, 01:06 PM
The Model for the Mona Lisa was actually Leonardo's male assistant....so a mustache and monocle would be perfect. Kind of like a middle ages scope.

Sam1911
August 24, 2011, 01:14 PM
Ehhh...that's one opinion, but more of a conspiracy theorist's fancy than a documented fact.

But this isn't Art History 101...let's stick to guns.

bergmen
August 24, 2011, 01:32 PM
Not sure how one would improve on perfection:

http://inlinethumb11.webshots.com/35210/2511286870053667879S600x600Q85.jpg

Mine (.454 Casull + .45 Colt cylinder):

http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/47563/2990352660053667879S600x600Q85.jpg

Besides, any work done by another outfit completely voids the lifetime warranty that came with mine.

Dan

tuckerdog1
August 24, 2011, 01:33 PM
Love those grips. Hate that hammer.

Tuckerdog1

tuckerdog1
August 24, 2011, 01:37 PM
Dan,

Beautiful revolver. I never get tired of seeing another Freedom Arms.

Thanks,
Tuckerdog1

Standing Wolf
August 24, 2011, 03:17 PM
there's no way in the big wide world I'd put that hammer on a SA revolver...

I've never seen one like it. If I were a single action guy, I'd have to think about it, although I'm partial to the looks of the Bisley hammer.

CraigC
August 24, 2011, 03:49 PM
I'm sure it's very practical but then again, so is the original hammer. I reckon I'm just not one that buys into the "lower is better" line of thinking when it comes to single action revolver hammer spurs. Don't like the way that looks at all. Particularly considering that it's on a $4000-$4500 revolver. A $50 drop-in part for a Ruger might be worth a try. A $300 option on a $2200 package offered for a $2000 FA, not so much. ;)


Besides, any work done by another outfit completely voids the lifetime warranty that came with mine.
If you have $2000-$2500 worth of work done on a $2000 revolver, you don't "need" a warranty. :)

JellyJar
August 24, 2011, 05:33 PM
I agree that that hammer is silly but I do think that that lanyard ring on the little model 97 is a great idea.

for the Freedom Arms Model 84

Model 84? I need to check their web site. I though the big one was the Model 83!


Edit: The OP must have mistyped. They is no model 84 mentioned.

I have fat fingers as well. :)

19-3Ben
August 24, 2011, 05:59 PM
Someone should put out a bobbed hammer version as a joke.

They could advertise it as being snag free for easy draw from concealment, just like the SEALs used to take out OBL.

savit260
August 24, 2011, 10:37 PM
I believe he's talking about this: http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/cata..._packages.html

IMO, that hammer makes an otherwise, very attractive as far as Stainless Steel revolvers go, look downright goofy. With a standard, Bisley Style, or even SBH style (or similar) hammer, the revolver would be quite nice looking. With that Froot Loop hammer.... not so much.

Owen Sparks
August 24, 2011, 10:50 PM
Is Freedom arms about to go out of business over a huge lawsuit?

CraigC
August 25, 2011, 12:08 AM
No.

RinkRat
August 25, 2011, 11:55 PM
^^ if so it's about time their customer service is the worst and their products are way over priced for what you get :banghead: ... they remind me of a *don't take affiance my brother is one* a used car salesman ... once you buy one of theirs they don't stand behind their products ... although that is the best place to stand when your talking about firearms :rolleyes:

Prosser
August 26, 2011, 12:27 AM
Bowen once wrote me that I'd be better off with an FA, then a Ruger he converted, since FA no matter what he did, he couldn't do better then where FA started.

That said, one of the things I really like is the hammer on the FA, and that isn't it.

I think FA's make a great place to start on a custom revolver.

FA has folks that are great in service, and some not so good, lkke the owner.

Keep in mind, that like most gun folks, Bob Baker and his boys view his guns as his babies, and, anything that you say that in the slightest goes against
what they, or really his dad came up with, well, he's going to try and stomp you
.

On the otherhand, go to Gunblast, and, you'll find that FA revolvers, probably hand picked, are THE most accurate revolver on the market, by a LOT.
I sold a 252 that shot .38" for it's new owner, with the right ammo, at 50 yards. My CZ rifle barely does that off the bench.

Considering custom 1911's that are less accurate go for 3 grand, I think you are going to have a hard time convincing me that FA's are a poor value.

dougader
August 26, 2011, 06:52 AM
I hesitate to buy a FA because of the hammer. I hate it. If someone comes out with a Bisley style hammer for the FA, then we are back on; or even a Ruger SBH or Montado style hammer. In the meantime, Bowen, Harton, Gallagher, Horvath,, Stroh, etc. can make me the gun I want, just the way I choose...

CraigC
August 26, 2011, 09:33 AM
if so it's about time their customer service is the worst and their products are way over priced for what you get ... they remind me of a *don't take affiance my brother is one* a used car salesman ... once you buy one of theirs they don't stand behind their products ... although that is the best place to stand when your talking about firearms
I would say this is the rare exception, rather than the rule and that obviously, there is much more to this story than we're hearing.

Last such anecdote I heard was from a guy who had a FA 97 that egg-shaped chambers. He went on and on and on about how FA produces a POS and that they had screwed him out of his money. Then, from the other end, Bob Baker, we find out that he had used such poorly cast bullets that were so hard and driven so fast, that they had damaged the pistol.

dougader
August 26, 2011, 11:55 AM
What? How can a cast bullet be too hard and be driven too fast? Unless he cast them of iron... I mean Linotype or heat treated bullets are about as hard as it gets... Oregon Trail puts silver in their blend... unless he used something bad for a gas check, or used lapping compound instead of lube??? I'm confused.

CraigC
August 26, 2011, 12:29 PM
So am I. It was opined that the bullets may have been egg-shaped. Bob said he'd never seen anything like it before or since.

EDIT: I found the discussion, both chamber mouths and bore were egg-shaped. Loads he received from the owner were 20% or more overloaded. He suspected poorly cast bullets, tinning and/or leading led to the damage. Coupled with some arrogance and stupidity. The guy used to post on SingleActions.com, until he was banned.

Prosser
August 26, 2011, 12:35 PM
The 97 is very strong, but it's not an 83. It is possible to load stupid rounds, way over spec, and blow cylinders. Linebaugh had a couple Ruger cylinders laying around like that.

I've also heard of people loading light bullets and erroding forcing cones with super high pressure loads. I've also heard of people that have flat out shot their guns out, and, regardless of field or premier grade, FA has fixed the guns no charge. These being .454's.

I don't think a 2500 dollar gun should have a 5 pound trigger, but, Bob Baker, and his lawyers do. My argument is that if you have the most accurate production revolver in the world, the trigger should be a match grade trigger. If my .375 H&H CZ 550 has a single stage set trigger, a decent trigger pull on a pistol costing 5 times that isn't too much to ask.

I can see for a hunting gun, where you are using gloves, that he might have a point. Still, 80-100 dollars for a trigger job is a bit steep, on a new 2500 dollar gun.

An then there is the whole proprietary .500WE and how that came about.

All that said, every time I go out to buy a revolver lately, I've more or less ended up with a FA.

I will say the 252 I had didn't like my 5000 rounds of .22lr, so I sold it and bought a single six for 1/3 the money. We'll see how that plays out, but, the Single Six is a beautiful little gun, at a very good price. It doesn't have match grade cylinder, but, I also ended up selling the most accurate gun I've ever had, or close. 3/8" inch at 50 yards, with match grade ammo is no joke.

BFR's are THE best alternative. However, I'm concerned they are going to go the way of the Dan Wesson semi-autos, and become premium priced not far behind the FA's.

In retrospect, I think dealing with gunsmiths and owners of such companies it's best to approach it with the theory that the guns are their babies. THEY think they are perfect, and anything that you
say better be heavy on flattery. They have given a lot of thought to why the guns are designed the way they are, or they like them that way.

If you go to their website, or one they are financing, they are looking at it as a business situation. They aren't going to want to pay you to say things that may show that the Emperor has no clothes,
or that contradicts their decisions, or designs.

I like the fact that Bowen is doing conversions on FA's now. Didn't know that before. I'm sure everything he does will make a beautiful gun even more to what the owner wants.

However, that said, I REALLY don't like the look of that hammer. I suspect Bowen does. I have my opinion, he has his.

As for voiding a warranty: Bowen, I'm pretty sure Bowen has a life time warranty on his work as well.

dougader
August 26, 2011, 04:27 PM
So am I. It was opined that the bullets may have been egg-shaped. Bob said he'd never seen anything like it before or since.

EDIT: I found the discussion, both chamber mouths and bore were egg-shaped. Loads he received from the owner were 20% or more overloaded. He suspected poorly cast bullets, tinning and/or leading led to the damage. Coupled with some arrogance and stupidity. The guy used to post on SingleActions.com, until he was banned.

That makes sense. Thanks, Craig. I can see how leading (aka partial barrel obstruction) combined with overlaods could lead to the ruin of a gun, even a FA revovler. I imagine all of us are familiar with the kabooms in Glocks, and other weapons, because of increased pressures associated with leading.

bluetopper
August 26, 2011, 09:33 PM
Here's a pic of my field grade Freedom Arms 44 Magnum 10" barrel manufactured in 1990.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o182/bendebval/fa441.jpg

CraigC
August 27, 2011, 04:25 PM
That makes sense. Thanks, Craig. I can see how leading (aka partial barrel obstruction) combined with overlaods could lead to the ruin of a gun, even a FA revovler. I imagine all of us are familiar with the kabooms in Glocks, and other weapons, because of increased pressures associated with leading.
Baker said the egg shape followed the twist of the rifling all the way down the bore. It's very interesting that someone could manage to do such a thing to a fine FA 97. Then he blamed FA for it.

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