Mil-Spec 168g .308 bullets?


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Peakbagger46
August 25, 2011, 02:05 PM
I am about out of Sierra 168g matchkings for my .308. I found these military bullets for about $50 less than the matchkings: http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=8439&dir=278|281|727

Anyone have any experience with them? My use is target out of a very accurrate .308 bolt gun.

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capreppy
August 25, 2011, 02:18 PM
Keep a watch on RMR Bullets (http://www.shop.rmrbullets.com/category.sc;jsessionid=755928F59FE01A48FD1961577C17C603.qscstrfrnt04?categoryId=8). Jake is also a vendor here. He's had the 168gr SMKs before and will likely have them at some point in the future, but does currently have the 175gr SMKs. Pricing is VERY reasonable.

P-32
August 25, 2011, 03:11 PM
I would get some and try them. I have not seen a match bullet with the heel showen but who knows, you might invent something.

Some years ago a friend of mine gave me a bunch of 30 cal 147's he could not get to shoot for him. They worked fine for me. I wish I knew who made the 147's so I could get more.

nbkky71
August 25, 2011, 05:38 PM
I believe those bullets are made by Prvi...

I've loaded some of them before and run them through my M1A. They seemed to shoot well on the short course, but definitely opened up at the 600yd line.

Another alternative to look into is the Nosler 168gr custom competition bullet. I bought a bunch of them up at Camp Perry last year and they were much cheaper than Sierra.

cougar1717
August 25, 2011, 07:10 PM
A search for "Widener's match bullets" should tell you all you need to know.

Mac Attack
August 25, 2011, 08:29 PM
I ordered some and they look like SMK. I didn't weigh each one but randomly sampled quite a few. They were all in spec near 168 grs. I did not see any apparent accuracy differences between the milspecs and SMKs. I ended up buying another 500.

Southwest gun supply had the same bullets but they listed them as blemishes. Like my experience with Widners they looked identical to SMKs which leads me to believe they get them from Sierra.

longdayjake
August 25, 2011, 11:01 PM
If you are interested I have some A grade pulled 168 grain Match Kings. They are nicer than the 175 grain ones I am selling right now. About the quality of the 220 grainers on my website. I don't have them up on my website but I will sell them for $200 for 1000 shipped. If you are interested send me an email or IM and we can arrange payment. Otherwise, the 175 grain match kings are just as accurate (though not as pretty). http://www.shop.rmrbullets.com/category.sc;jsessionid=FBE072E40EAB1AE244894DA9A1AB23C5.qscstrfrnt03?categoryId=8

I only have about 3000 of the 168's and I don't know if I can get more. Actually, here is a picture of them.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee232/longdayjake/003.jpg

1stmarine
August 26, 2011, 12:07 AM
If you want real sniper bullets they are 175SMKs FMJs.
I found the pulled bullets sometimes inaccurate as they might be deformed in that pulling process. The concentricity and cleanness of the bullet (no marks) is paramount for serious shooting.

ArchAngelCD
August 26, 2011, 03:16 AM
If you want real sniper bullets they are 175SMKs FMJs.
Sniper Bullet??? What's a sniper bullet??

Peakbagger46
August 26, 2011, 09:46 AM
Thanks for all the replies. I ended up spending $140 for 500 SMK at powder valley. I got to thinking, if I'm getting .25MOA, why mess with it?

longdayjake
August 26, 2011, 10:31 AM
Sniper Bullet??? What's a sniper bullet??

A sniper bullet would be the bullet that a sniper uses to shoot stuff with. The US military currently uses the 175 grain SMK for long range work for 7.62x51. It uses the 220 grain SMK for the new .300 Mag stuff.

If you want real sniper bullets they are 175SMKs FMJs.

??? SMK's aren't FMJs.

MtnCreek
August 26, 2011, 10:41 AM
I think he was referring to M118 special ball produced by LC.

longdayjake
August 26, 2011, 01:58 PM
The M118 was 173 grains.

USSR
August 26, 2011, 03:18 PM
The M118 was 173 grains.

Yep, and it was a FMJ. It was used in M118 ammo until the 175SMK's like longdayjake sells started being used in M118 LR ammo in 1998.

Don

1stmarine
August 26, 2011, 09:41 PM
I was referring to the M118LR that it is a Sierra Match King in FMJ version for the military. The role is primary antipersonal.
I have used these for a long time... The one in the middle...

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z327/fotoeiro/30%20cal%20bullets/rifle30_145vs175SMKvs168TSXb.jpg

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z327/fotoeiro/30%20cal%20bullets/rifle30SMK175gr_WT.jpg

In the civilian market you can find them in HPBT and FMJ versions but for practice it is virtually the same thing.

USSR
August 26, 2011, 10:50 PM
1stmarine,

The 175gr Sierra MatchKing as is used in M118 LR ammo is NOT a FMJ. It is a boattail hollowpoint bullet. A FMJ bullet will be open at the bullet base (you will see exposed lead there), whereas a BTHP bullet will have a very small opening at the bullet tip where the lead core was inserted prior to the bullet tip being formed.

Don

1stmarine
August 26, 2011, 11:08 PM
USSR,
If you go to some stores or online you will find it in both flavors. I got sniper issued with the FMJ, that is. They are Boat tail too. That one you see (sorry for the phone pic quality) is pulled from a standard issue sniper round M118 LR. I used them both for job and hobby. The ballistics are identical and the terminal results too. I think that it has been hard to demonstrate the legality in the intended targets, even by the military but the are legal by the law of war. The only difference is one exposes the small opening at the tip and the other doesn't like all FMJs.
But thanks for the clarification though in case others don't know the difference.

So to be clear that for all intents and purposes open tip or not they are SMK's (match kings) 175gr. The ballistics charts are calculated based on this premise.

longdayjake
August 27, 2011, 01:26 AM
1st Marine. The bullets I sell are indeed m118 LR which are not FMJ. All m118LR are hollow points. Though it may look like the tip is closed it is indeed a hollow point. Only the original M118 was an FMJ.

ArchAngelCD
August 27, 2011, 01:55 AM
Sniper Bullet??? What's a sniper bullet??
I was being facetious, a bullet does not a sniper make...

(besides, the word sniper give the Anti crowd ammunition...)

USSR
August 27, 2011, 10:30 PM
So to be clear that for all intents and purposes open tip or not they are SMK's (match kings) 175gr.

Sorry 1stmarine, but you are mistaken. All Sierra MatchKings, including the ones used in M118 LR ammo, have been hollowpoint bullets for more than 25 years.

Don

1stmarine
August 27, 2011, 11:09 PM
USSR, with all due respect, not, I am not mistaken. In the phone pictures you cannot really tell due to the poor quality. I will dissect the bullet and try some quality pics.
humm... I am thinking this.. is there a change the FMJ vs the classic Match was issued in exceptions or manufactured by other NATO countries due to the controversy around the match bullets?
I might be wrong here but I believe the M118LR was first issued in 1997.

USSR
August 28, 2011, 03:49 PM
I will dissect the bullet and try some quality pics.

No need to dissect the bullet, just look at the base of the bullet. If you see lead there, it is a FMJ. If it is enclosed in copper at the base, it is a hollowpoint, as the only way the lead core could have been inserted is thru the front end before it was formed into a point. Regarding the date the M118 LR came into being, it was the fiscal year of 1997-1998, and the first headstamp bore a 1998 headstamp.

Don

http://ussr.clarityconnect.com/M118long.jpg

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