Frustration time with OALs -- Wow


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OleEd
August 28, 2011, 10:32 PM
I have a Ruger SR9 and the Taurus PT708 Slim. I had loaded some 9mm loads of Bullseye 4.2g with a 124/125g Lrn 6 mths ago. I had used an OAL of 1.130. These loaded rds (20ea) got stuck every time in the Taurus and 1 out of 3-4 rds in the SR9. (Of note, they worked well in a Beretta 92 which I originally loaded them for.)

I stopped shooting and came home to check this stuff out. I used the Lyman 24 edition but it doesn't list a 124 or 125g load. I went to the new Serria manual and again nothing. I believe I used and OAL from FMJ at 124g.

I became frustrated when my Remington HD rds load ever so nicely in both pistols but it is an HP rd with an OAL of 1.122. Yep diff than a 125g LRN

I disassembled both wpns to check the seating at the breech area. To get the 125g LRN to fit "flush" in the breech with the two knobs (dealy-bobs) on the part of the breech area, I had the reduce the OAL 1.130 to 1.076.

I question the amount of Bullseye (4.2g) powder with an OAL of 1.076..... Is it going to be too powerful to safely shoot. SOME HELPFUL SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE APPRECIATED.

Or, are there some "Closet"Taurus PT709" shooters out there that can give me some safe data for Bullseye or W231 with a 9mm 125g LRN. How about for the Ruger SR9 too.

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rfwobbly
August 28, 2011, 11:27 PM
Ed -
Don't feel bad, this is a very common complaint. Lead may be cheap to buy, but that does not mean it's easy to load.

If this is your first reloading experience, then hold off on the aspirin by starting with plated or jacketed bullets. They are more accurately sized to the barrel and will therefore load much easier. As it is, you'll have to find a published load for an OAL of 1.076" or shorter, or trade away the bullets.

You can use the loads for the 120gr LRN on p342 for any LRN 120-125gr. That's going to be close enough if you'll begin at the "starting load" and work up slowly. Starting 10% below max makes up for a lot of variables.

Each and every gun maker makes their barrels differently. What you have to put up with in reloading is simply to acknowledge that NOT ALL BULLETS will work in every gun. Never buy more than 100 bullets until you're double darn sure they fit your gun and work for you.

May I humbly suggest you try the Berry Mfg RN. I use those in my tight-chambered CZ and they can be loaded all the way out to 1.169" without running out of chamber.

All the best.

OleEd
August 29, 2011, 07:10 AM
I'll try that. I've been reloading wheel guns since 86 with loads that worked then and didn't change. Now a couple of semi and wow.

Thanks, I've calmed down and ready to figure that bugger out. Have a good day.

sugarmaker
August 29, 2011, 11:54 AM
Lead feeds differently than jacketed, friction, drformation, etc. make the round handle differently on the feed ramp / chamber mouth. Try a harder alloy, use round noses w/o exposed lube groove steps.

Also, lead is less forgiving of sharp edges, burrs, and tool marks on the feed system. Examine several rounds that have chanbered, you may see some shaved / burnished material on the bullet and some shaved lead or lead streaks on the feed system. If you are careful, some polishing and deburring may help, but be careful.

flashhole
August 29, 2011, 12:08 PM
My PT-140 was a bit particular about how I loaded for it. I used the COL for the 175 grain Lee bullet I cast myself using a Lee mold that produces a truncated cone style bullet. The problem was the first compression ring (closest to the ogive) stuck up above the cartridge rim by about .008" and the "false lip" was jamming my action. Seating it flush to the lip on the case solved the problem.

sugarmaker
August 29, 2011, 12:28 PM
Another thing to watch is make sure you crimp out ALL of the flare made by the expander die. As someone else here pointed out, seating the case mouth over the first ledge of a cast bullet can work, sometimes crimping over the ledge will result in a smoother feed. it takes some experimentation, but you should be able to find a combination that works.

jfdavis58
August 29, 2011, 12:57 PM
Almost universally absent from reloading forums is the concept of dummy rounds.

Need: some empty, clean cases, some bullets, press, calipers and loading data.

Make a few 'dummys' of a specific length-no powder or primer. Hand cycle them through your pistol. Run a few cycles. Make a second measurement and take notes.

Repeat with a different OAL.

With a few cycles you can gain a great deal of knowledge as to what length loads and cycles and ejects cleanly. You can get some idea of the adequacy of your crimp/neck/bullet tension.

You will find absolutely no need to search for a perfect measurement or to throw it into a forum for anybodies best guess.

This exercise is very much like 'showing your work' when solving a math problem. The gained factual information is partial credit even if the answer is wrong.

...and that's the best I've got...

You would be very surprised at the problem that will reveal themselves.

Quoheleth
August 29, 2011, 02:24 PM
FWIW, my CZ85 requires a sub 1.068" OAL with a 125gr LRN. I now load all of my 9mm to that length so I can run them in my CZ, SR9c, or CW9.

I arrived at that OAL by trial and error, using my removed CZ barrel as a length gauge. Once I had found a length that worked, I set my dies and made Sharpie marks on the dies so I would know where to keep them set.

Q

Twmaster
August 29, 2011, 02:38 PM
Almost universally absent from reloading forums is the concept of dummy rounds.

Need: some empty, clean cases, some bullets, press, calipers and loading data.

Make a few 'dummys' of a specific length-no powder or primer. Hand cycle them through your pistol. Run a few cycles. Make a second measurement and take notes.

Repeat with a different OAL.

With a few cycles you can gain a great deal of knowledge as to what length loads and cycles and ejects cleanly. You can get some idea of the adequacy of your crimp/neck/bullet tension.

You will find absolutely no need to search for a perfect measurement or to throw it into a forum for anybodies best guess.

This exercise is very much like 'showing your work' when solving a math problem. The gained factual information is partial credit even if the answer is wrong.

...and that's the best I've got...

You would be very surprised at the problem that will reveal themselves.

This ^^

I do this and have from my first reloads. I load dummies and cycle cycle cycle.

Thankfully my 9MM Hi-Point carbine eats everything I've made for it.

GLOOB
August 30, 2011, 06:15 PM
Of the pistols I've reloaded for, the 9mm ones have had the biggest variations in chamber dimensions. If you wanna shoot your reloads out of multiple guns, make sure you're setting your OAL and crimp for the ones with the tightest chambers in those regards.

I recently simplified to just a G19 in 9mm. So for the time being I can make my luger ammo with any OAL that fits in the mag and zero crimp - even with lead bullets!? No wonder my G21 is more accurate!

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