AA#7 in 9mm


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JO JO
August 28, 2011, 11:29 PM
anyone use AA#7 in 9mm does it work well ?
also thinking of power pistol but i have read it has a bad flash to it
looking for a powder that fills up case a mediam burn.
Thanks

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ljnowell
August 28, 2011, 11:37 PM
I've got some pictures on this forum of Power pistol in a 45acp with 185gr HPs. Its flashier than some powders, but its not like h110 or 2400. I wouldnt be too afraid to use it really, but thats just me. I have some experience loading Power Pistol in 9mm and I can tell you, its a good powder for it.

3leggeddog
August 29, 2011, 12:00 AM
AA 7 is pretty slow for a 9mm. I found that unique [medium burn rate ] or good old W-231 works great.

oldreloader
August 29, 2011, 01:16 AM
I have used AA #7 in 9MM and it will work ok.I shoot cast bullets and it works best FOR ME in 9MM with 125 gr and 147 gr bullets.

ArchAngelCD
August 29, 2011, 01:33 AM
I haven't used AA#7 in the 9mm but I have used AA#5. I liked the results I got from AA#5 but I personally feel AA#7 might be too slow a powder in the 9mm. The 40 S&W yes but possibly not the 9mm. My favorite powder in the 9mm is Longshot.

SHR970
August 29, 2011, 10:09 AM
I've run lots of #7 through the 9mm. It works best with 124gr and heavier jacketed or thick plated bullets. I have not experienced a flash issue with it; I have a ported barrel on my P89. It makes good enough port pressure that the muzzle actually goes down a little. #7 was originally developed for subgun ammo featuring 147 & 158 gr. bullets. This powder likes to run on the stiffer side of the charge. I am still loading to older data with no signs of pressure problems (the newer data has been reduced a bit)((work up, YMMV, at your own risk)).

#7 is also a good crossover powder for 357; I particularly like it with 125 gr. HP's for use in my SP101.

If you are going to run 115 gr. pills, use something faster like #5, Herco, Unique, WAP; 231 / HP38 just to name a few.

JO JO
August 29, 2011, 02:50 PM
I been thinking of power pistol aswell is the flash and blast real bad with this powder

highlander 5
August 29, 2011, 07:14 PM
According to AA,No 7 was developed with the 9mmx19 in mind.

dougader
August 29, 2011, 09:25 PM
I only ever used AA7 with 115 grain bullets in 9mm. Speer 14 data up to 9.6 grains. Work up to this. Just guessing, but I think it runs into +P territory near 9.6 grains.

I like VV 3n37, Power Pistol, WAP/Silhouette for better all around powders in 9mm. VV3n37, AA7 and Silhouette have less flash than Power Pistol but when does that really come into play for you? I don't generally use handloads for SD so I pay less attention to muzzle flash.

AA7 uses nearly 2/3 more powder than the others, too.

ArchAngelCD
August 30, 2011, 01:36 AM
According to AA,No 7 was developed with the 9mmx19 in mind.
Where did you get that information? Source please...

Steve C
August 30, 2011, 10:14 PM
AA7 is the canister grade of the powder used by the Israelis for their 9mm SMG ammo. Burn rate similar to Blue Dot it is one of the slower powders that will still work in the small case of the 9mm. If looking for maximum velocity in 5" or shorter handguns then a faster medium burn rate powder is better but for carbines AA7 will work very well.

For example a 8.0gr load of AA7 behind a 115gr Rem JHP produce 1,163 fps from my Glock 19. 6.3grs of Power Pistol sends the same bullet out of the muzzle of the same gun at 1,222 fps as does 5.7grs of Unique.

BullfrogKen
August 30, 2011, 10:24 PM
Where did you get that information? Source please... According to AA,No 7 was developed with the 9mmx19 in mind.



Comes right out of the Accurate Arms loadbook. I have one here at the house.


I've had a lot of success loading mid-power 38 Supers with it. It'll work the best with heavier grain bullets in a 9mm. It will meter extremely well. It does not have much flash, but there are other powders that will do better if flash is a consideration. It will fill up the case quite nicely. I have to use about 2 grains more powder in my 38 Super to achieve the same velocity that I get when I use AA No5.

highlander 5
August 30, 2011, 10:31 PM
According to the free reloading guide from Accurate Arms giving a description of each of their powders and the cartridges that they are used for.

DanTheFarmer
August 31, 2011, 05:40 PM
I've got a Hi-Point 995ts on back order. It sounds like AA #7 might be a good candidate for some 115 grain reloads intended for its 16" barrel.

Anybody use AA #7 for 9mm carbines?

Thanks.

Dan

zeke
August 31, 2011, 07:41 PM
AA-7 is excellent powder for 124 grain jacketed 9mm, and seems to prefer magnum primers for accuracy/velocity.

ArchAngelCD
September 1, 2011, 02:03 AM
Comes right out of the Accurate Arms loadbook. I have one here at the house.
According to the free reloading guide from Accurate Arms giving a description of each of their powders and the cartridges that they are used for.
Thank you both... I think AA#7 warrants further consideration...

SHR970
September 3, 2011, 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by highlander 5
According to AA,No 7 was developed with the 9mmx19 in mind.

Where did you get that information? Source please...

Accurate Arms Reloading Guide Updated 5th Edition Copyright 1992.

Walkalong
September 3, 2011, 06:20 PM
used by the Israelis for their 9mm SMG ammoWhich is loaded hot.

For anything but top end loads, AA # 7 is a bit slow for 9MM, IMHO. There are better overall 9MM powders the way I see it.

helotaxi
September 4, 2011, 10:14 AM
but I personally feel AA#7 might be too slow a powder in the 9mm. ... My favorite powder in the 9mm is Longshot.

Longshot is slower than AA#7.

AA#7 is suitable for heavier bullets (124gn+) in 9mm and Hornady lists it as producing the highest velocities with 124 and 147gn bullets.

ironhead7544
September 4, 2011, 11:53 AM
AA#7 works fine in the 9mm. Loaded a lot of SMG ammo with it and it worked the action perfectly. No problems with pistols either.

SHR970
September 5, 2011, 02:49 PM
Quote:
used by the Israelis for their 9mm SMG ammo

Which is loaded hot.
NATO spec for 9mm is 36,550 psi which is above SAAMI's 35,000 psi limit. However, NATO spec allows pressures slightly above 40,500 psi (STANAG 4090) which is above +P+ territory.
AA#7 was never developed to be a universal 9mm powder; it was developed to push heavy for caliber 9mm bullets out of an open bolt SMG at best velocities without going overpressure.

In my experience, you can go compressed loads with 147 gr. bullets. If you read Brian Enos' forums, the prevailing thought is that you can not stuff enough powder into the case to overload it. Of course trying to do so is at your own risk as these loads are above published SAAMI Max.

ArchAngelCD
September 6, 2011, 12:56 AM
Longshot is slower than AA#7.

AA#7 is suitable for heavier bullets (124gn+) in 9mm and Hornady lists it as producing the highest velocities with 124 and 147gn bullets.
Powder speeds are different in every chart you look at. The relative powder speed is actually dependent on the cartridge it's loaded in.

noylj
September 6, 2011, 01:52 AM
AA7 is good for 147gn bullets and will work for lighter bullets.
I find AA5 is a better general purpose 9x19 powder and is quite accurate.

jcmios
September 30, 2012, 12:09 PM
Accurate Arms loadbook #1 & #2 do state that #7 powder was developed for the 9mm. It is also an excellent performer in the hotter .357SIG among others

Jim

cfullgraf
September 30, 2012, 12:34 PM
AA#7 was my 9x19 powder of choice until I discovered True Blue during the last component shortage.

Shot well, metered well. Accurate Powders now has data for plated bullets in 9x19 with AA#7

Bovice
September 30, 2012, 03:11 PM
This is shenanigans, just get yourself a jug of universal and call it a day. It will make factory spec velocity with no trouble.

ApplePie
September 30, 2012, 04:12 PM
>>Anybody use AA #7 for 9mm carbines?<<

I've used a heavy load of Blue Dot in that Hi-Point carbine and is works well. Blue Dot is even slower burning than AA #7. I wanted a slower burning powder in order to get maximum velocity from that 16-inch barrel.

To the OP: I wouldn't let the flash from Power Pistol scare you off. It just means they did not add a flash suppressant to it. That's just so you don't give away your position to the enemy at night. You don't have anyone shooting back at you, do you?

hentown
October 1, 2012, 07:23 PM
I use AA#5, exclusively, for .45ACP and 9mm reloading. Also use it for moderate 10mm, but prefer AA#7 for 10mm.

SHR970
October 2, 2012, 09:35 PM
cfullgraf wrote: Shot well, metered well. Accurate Powders now has data for plated bullets in 9x19 with AA#7

Accurate was the first company that I know of that formulated plated specific data. Data is about 20 years old: Ranier Plated (http://www.rainierballistics.com/old_pages/accuratearms.htm)

platypusfriend
May 29, 2013, 12:09 PM
First time reloader; first time poster.

With no previous experience, I decided to start reloading 9mm. This thread was one of the many resources that I used to teach myself about the safety and performance of using Accurate No. 7 powder. This thread comes up high on a Google search, so I thought I'd attempt to add my experience.

I'm using the Lee Breech Lock Hand Press, with a Lee Deluxe Carbide (4 die) set, Lee Lock Ring Eliminators, Lee Ram Prime, WSP primers, mixed brass, and Ranier 124gr plated bullets.

I chose AA#7 because I wanted a reduced risk of overcharging my cases. I'm using the Accurate load data v3.5, available here: http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/accurate_load_data_3.5.pdf

I started with the start load, which is 6.7gr of AA#7. After going to the local range, and convincing myself that the slide was not going to come loose and impact my face, I pulled the trigger on my German Sig Sauer P228 (3.9" barrel), six times. My ProChrono Digital gave me the following:

FPS: 929, 912, 888, 910, 944, 944

After this string, unburnt powder was everywhere, inside of my frame and slide. However, the action did operate properly, and the rounds did eject, with and without bullets remaining in the mag.

I was happy with the low recoil and the function of the action, but I realized that all of the posters (on this and other sites), who told us that AA#7 was better-suited for heavier loads, were correct.

I kept working up...

TL;DR

Here's what I eventually settled-on. I don't shoot in competitions, but this load has a couple of conveniences for me. One, it is a typical powder scoop for my Lee 0.5cc dipper; and two, it averages to a 127 power factor in my P228:

124gr Ranier plated round nose, .356
7.3gr Accurate No. 7
Avg. COL: 1.152
Avg. taper crimp: 0.3765

Which gave me a recorded seven-shot string of:

FPS: 1024, 1031, 1030, 1052, 999, 1026, 1040
Avg. FPS: 1029
Avg. PF: 127
Avg. ft-lbf: 291

Use this data at your own risk. Thanks for reading.

baz
May 30, 2013, 09:53 AM
124gr Ranier plated round nose, .356
7.3gr Accurate No. 7
Avg. COL: 1.152
Avg. taper crimp: 0.3765

This load is close to what I have in my notes:9mm

Bullet: 124 grain -- Remington FMJ (MwUSA #420022), Remington JHP (MwUSA #465052)
124 grain -- Berry's Preferred Plated (from Cabelas) ***(See Note about COL)
Primer: CCI 500
Charge: AA #7, 7.2 to 8.0 grains per older AA
Using: ~7.4 grain AA # 7 (.5cc Lee dipper)
COL: 1.095"
Note: With the seating die set for 1.095" COL with the Remington FMJ, the COL for the Remington JHP is a bit less, but tests okay. For the Berry's Preferred Plated bullet, the seating die must be adjusted out to avoid seating the bullet too deep (I think this is because the mouth of the bullet is quite a bit wider). A COL for the Berry's of 0.06" less, or ~1.035" should give about the same seating depth as the FMJ, and tested okay.
These were worked up in a Taurus 24/7. I haven't shot them in my XDM in a while, but I seem to recall problems with the loads using the Berry's plated bullet having cycling issues.

FWIW. I think #7 is suitable, but as with all reloading, there will be some variation from one firearm to another, so work your own loads up accordingly. I tend to settle on conservative loads, and never approach the max.

ETXhiker
May 30, 2013, 10:21 AM
Welcome to the forum, Platypusfriend.

platypusfriend
May 30, 2013, 04:16 PM
Welcome to the forum, Platypusfriend.
Thank you, brother.

platypusfriend
May 30, 2013, 04:18 PM
Follow-on chart to my earlier post:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/thecrusader503/P228_AAno7_9x19mm_124gr_Plated.png

platypusfriend
August 16, 2013, 05:17 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/thecrusader503/9mm-aa7-plated-revA.png

This is from a 3.9" barrel.

(Note that some of these loads exceed the recommended specs)

6.7 921
6.8 946
6.9 971
7.0 992
7.1 1013
7.2 1027
7.3 1041
7.4 1056
7.5 1071
7.6 1086
7.7 1102
7.8 1107
7.9 1119
8.0 1140

loose noose
August 16, 2013, 06:47 PM
I kind of lean toward Red Dot up to 130 grain rounds, I've heard it is dirty but I haven't had any major problems with it, in my 92FS, or my Benelli B76, or my Hi-Point carbine. It is highly accurate in all three of my 9mm using 125 grn. rounds.

918v
August 16, 2013, 08:27 PM
I love AA#7 in my 9.
With 125JHP the sweet spot seems to be about 7.3grs @1.150" OAL.
It is flash suppressed.
It cannot KB guns.
It measures like water.

marksg
August 16, 2013, 09:15 PM
I've had good results with #7 124 gr and Hornady HAP 125 gr. I mostly use #5 with 115 gr and the 121 gr HAP.

medalguy
August 17, 2013, 12:45 AM
I've been using #7 for many years in 9mm and other cartridges. A number of years back I acquired about 30 pounds of AA #7 and 18 pounds of AA #5. I experimented with both powders in 9mm and both have worked very well for me. I have been quite fond of the #7 in 9mm with both 115 gr as well as 124 gr plated and jacketed bullets. All work very well in a Beretta 92 pistol as well as a Sten. I load both the 115 and 124 gr with 7.6 grains of #7 and this has given me 1000 fps with the 124 gr, and 1080 fps in the 115 gr. Recoil is not bad with either bullet.

GT1
August 17, 2013, 12:58 AM
I started reloading my first real batches of rounds with AA#7 and 9mm 115 gr bullets, I was going for safe as there is no way one can double charge with it. I don't remember any muzzle flash to speak of and my indoor pistol range is quite dark from the line out to the first target lights.

It is a very forgiving powder, I thought.

zxcvbob
August 17, 2013, 01:22 AM
I bought a couple of jugs of surplus #7 powder a few years ago. I wish I had bought 4 jugs of it. It is Israeli pulldown 9mm SMG powder, and a just little faster than real AA#7. I haven't tried it in 9mm, but it works great in .357 Magnum.

hentown
August 18, 2013, 01:21 PM
I use AA#5, exclusively, for 9mm reloading. Works well for me.

Woolecox
August 18, 2013, 11:35 PM
AA#7 is one of my favorites for 9mm. As already stated, it meters well, can't be double charged, accurate, dependable, etc.

Over the past few days, I have loaded 1000 rounds of 9mm using 7.8 grains of #7 under a 124 Montana Gold HP and CCI-500 primer. I did this on my Dillon RL550B. I always keep it set up with something and just sit down and load a few hundred at a time.

This is my favorite IDPA match load. It gives me the power to knock down steel plates, poppers, and bowling pins but recoil is still mild. I have not run it through a crony but I guess they are in excess of 1100 fps coming out of a 5 inch barrel. I would not hesitate to use these for personal defense as well.

dhopson
September 27, 2013, 07:58 PM
Lots of good info here. I load everything I shoot, .380, 9mm, 38SP, 40 S&W, 45 ACP, 45 Colt, .223, 7,62x39, 30-30, 300 BLK, 12 Ga, and 410.

At the Nations Gun Show today here in Northern VA, due to a lack of my favorite Unique for pistols, I bought A #7. My intent is to put 115 gn fmjs [I have lots] down my AR chambered in 9mm. I am not critical on Unique yet, but would like to keep it for the other cals. Now that I have the #7, I want to take advantage of it. I have read all the posts, and it seems that about 7.5 gns should do it. Any one have any comments? What else is it good for - from my list above. Any help here would be appreciated, but its primary use will be 9mm it the AR. Thanks, Dave... We are all in this together.

zeke
September 27, 2013, 11:44 PM
Win case, Fed 200 primer, 7.8 grains AA-7 and Hdy 124 xtp @1.113 oal.
1180 fps from BHP, excellent accuracy. Work up to it slowly, it exceeds some manuals slightly and consider a plus p velocity. Works fine in every 9mm tried in.

Unique (and lots of others) is another very good 9mm powder, but harder to work with.

Another loader who uses it for 357 mag loads, but lower velocities than full bore slower powder loads.

gamestalker
September 28, 2013, 02:20 AM
AA7 has been fair, as I like the medium to slow burners. But my favorite medium burner for 9mm has been HS6. As for my over all favorite 9mm powder it's hands down Longshot. In fact, I find Longshot to be my favorite for 9mm, 38 spcl, and .40 cal.. It is flashy and pretty exclusively for full powered loads, but it simply produces the best of such. It fills the case very well, never given me pressure management problems, and it's produced excellent accuracy.

GS

ljnowell
September 28, 2013, 08:17 AM
Platypusfriend, that's some great posting! Looking forward to more posts from you.

Potatohead
September 28, 2013, 09:25 AM
I think it's the Hornady manual that said Power Pistol was their favorite 9mm powder overall. They may be in cahoots though, I know nothing of that.

rfwobbly
September 28, 2013, 11:41 AM
I'm with Walkalong and several others. I believe that No7 is too slow for general use in 9mm, especially with 124 grain bullets. Not only that, but it is simply not efficient. That is to say, what takes 7+ grains of No7 to do can be done more realistically with half that in a slightly faster powder.

This is not to say it's not an excellent powder in its own right. In cartridges like 38 Super, 9x23 Win, 10mm where case volume isn't so much an issue and speeds in excess of 1200 fps are normal, then No7 starts to shine.

No7 is one of my all-time favorites in 38 Super, using the same 147/150 grain bullet and primer as the 9.

918v
September 28, 2013, 12:00 PM
I believe that #7 is not too slow for general use in the 9mm. How is it too slow? Because you can get the same velocity with a smaller charge weight using other powders? That's no way to measure burning rate. #7 burns as completely as any other medium-rate powder, delivers excellent accuracy, and is flash suppressed. It meters better than other powders. It gives you 100% load density and a gradual pressure curve.

While you can't use it for "3grs of Titegroup/147gr" type applications, you CAN use it for all reasonable applications.

DaBruins
September 28, 2013, 09:03 PM
I've had excellent results using AA#5 with 147 gr Berry's plated bullets in my 3" Kimber 1911, plus AA#2 with 115 gr plated bullets for my 4" Beretta PX4. To be fair, the only other powder I've tried for 9mm is Titegroup (which I use for 45 ACP), but the results were not up to the same levels as the #2 and #5.

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