.25 good or bad for stopping someone


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PANCH
August 30, 2011, 01:18 AM
maybe you guys can help me, is a .25 revolver a good enough gun to stop someone, or is a .22 better. thanks

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Maple_City_Woodsman
August 30, 2011, 01:50 AM
For the no surely numerous doubters, YES there are .25 revolvers floating around out there. .25acp revolvers (with safety levers no less) were once common carry pieces in France and Belgium in times past.

Real world numbers from a .25 auto and .22LR in equal barrel lengths are essentially the same.

Lots of people on the errornet saying the .22LR is more powerful. Those are the ones who are fast at checking Wikipedia, and slow at noticing details like test barrel lengths, or real chronograph data.

Both are functionally equivalent when launched from identical platforms.

Both suck compared to all larger cartridges.

Both are far better than fists or harsh words.

Shadow 7D
August 30, 2011, 01:52 AM
While I doubt that anyone would like to be shot by one
most people find that a .32 is a better choice

It has a reputation of not being a good manstopper
which may mean that people need to aim better
or it lacks the penetration to hit a vital organ.

barneyrw
August 30, 2011, 01:59 AM
I may be wrong but does anyone make a .25 caliber revolver?

Shadow 7D
August 30, 2011, 02:21 AM
yes, but not lately
Europeans used to make 'Velodogs'
basically cheap small cal revolvers for bicyclist to carry (concealed BTW) to take care of dogs.
there were many made in the early 1900's especially In Belgium and spain.

oldfool
August 30, 2011, 08:29 AM
No

not even much good for dog stopping much less people stopping
(better than a loud shout for help... but not by much)
go with 22WMR vs either 25acp or 22LR rimfire
but, as mentioned above, 32 would be a better choice than any of those three

PRM
August 30, 2011, 08:47 AM
Wouldn't be my first choice for self defense. Too many better choices out there. But, both will and have stopped people dead.

Of the two, I like the 22LR. It's cheap and fun to shoot. I grew up in a rural farming community where just about everyone had a .22 rifle in their truck to take care of stock predators and varmints. Even seen them used to put a few hams in the smoke house and sausage in the freezer. Always worked then.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A sheriff was attending an old fashion South Texas BBQ when he was approached by an liberal, anti-gun, news reporter. Who looking at his sidearm, asked him if he was expecting trouble. The sheriff smiled and said, "no, if I was expecting trouble, I would have brought my rifle."

hawkeye10
August 30, 2011, 08:51 AM
:) I would choose the 22LR over the 32ACP because ammo is cheaper and you can buy it anywhere. Don

madcratebuilder
August 30, 2011, 10:04 AM
Here is a study of various calibers and there effectiveness on stopping power.

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/printable/node/7866

I have two .25acps pocket autos that I carry when dressed light, I don't feel under gunned at all.

Bullet size and energy are important, bullet placement is king.

Tallinar
August 30, 2011, 10:17 AM
I guess I'm curious why the OP asks? Are you considering a .25 caliber handgun? Is there a particular reason you're considering a .25 caliber handgun over something reputably stronger?

tpelle
August 30, 2011, 10:23 AM
Back when KY first got concealed carry, one of the "early adopters", an older retired gentleman who was taking a walk in one of the local parks for his health, was accosted by one of the young local thugs-to-be. The gentleman drew his .25 ACP automatic, stuck it in thug-to-be's nostril, and pulled the trigger. Thug-to-be became thug-never-was.

It's all about shot placement.

pazz
August 30, 2011, 10:54 AM
.25 doesn't have a lot of stopping power. Much better options out there

Tallinar
August 30, 2011, 11:06 AM
To the question of whether .22 is better, I would answer yes. .22 LR uses a similar bullet weight as .25 ACP, and at higher speeds for more muzzle energy.

.22 WMR is superior still.

Lawdawg45
August 30, 2011, 11:20 AM
The only real life experience I can offer goes both ways. In the late 80's I responded to a call of a person shot, when I arrived I found a male that had been shot center in the forehead with a .25 and the bullet (FMJ) had failed to penetrate the skull and had traveled around the side of his head and lodged in his ear. He walked to the ambulance. More recently I rode duty with my son and we responded to a homicide where a man shot his neighbor with a .25 at 25 feet, and dropped him like a sack of hammers with 2 shots (also FMJ's). So the clear answer is maybe! :rolleyes:

LD45

Madcap_Magician
August 30, 2011, 11:24 AM
Trolling?

natman
August 30, 2011, 11:24 AM
Back when KY first got concealed carry, one of the "early adopters", an older retired gentleman who was taking a walk in one of the local parks for his health, was accosted by one of the young local thugs-to-be. The gentleman drew his .25 ACP automatic, stuck it in thug-to-be's nostril, and pulled the trigger. Thug-to-be became thug-never-was.

It's all about shot placement.
True enough.

However, there are occasions when the up-the-nostril shot does not present itself. Some of us would like a bit more flexibility in shot choices, hence our preference for larger, more powerful chamberings.

heeler
August 30, 2011, 11:57 AM
Price for non Yugo made .25 ACP is pretty high.
I would pass on the .22 and .25 and get at least a KelTec P32.

Old Fuff
August 30, 2011, 12:26 PM
The .25 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) cartridge, which is also known as the .6.35mm Browning in Europe and elsewhere, is still popular with a lot of folks who don't follow or care about gun forums or the latest tactical inovations.

As for the .22RF vs. .25 question. At one time I knew a member of the UK's famous SAS special forces outfit that had used both. When I chided him about the fictional Agent James Bond and his .25 Beretta he explained that the choice of any weapon depended on the nature of the mission, and the circumstances involved. When it came to an ultra-small pistol, the .25 was prefered because the center-fire primer was more reliable then the .22 RF, and the full jacketed bullet offered better penetration, that given the limited power of the cartridge was of critical importance. Training and practice along with precise bullet placement was expected to offset the obvious negatives over a larger, more powerful round.

He had absolutely no concern over the relative cost of the respective ammunition. :scrutiny:

tpelle
August 30, 2011, 12:40 PM
True enough.

However, there are occasions when the up-the-nostril shot does not present itself. Some of us would like a bit more flexibility in shot choices, hence our preference for larger, more powerful chamberings.
My post was a little tongue-in-cheek, there. The point I was making is that a BB gun, fired up a nostril, would probably take the fight out of anyone.

I personally wouldn't rely on a .25 ACP for defense. but then again, I tend to carry a .380 ACP a lot. Lots of folks roll their eyes at that.

I used to carry a 1911 in .45 ACP, but got tired of always having to hike my britches up.

Caliper_RWVA
August 30, 2011, 09:29 PM
Either is better than a sharp stick, and as Old Fluff mentioned, center fire is more reliable than rim fire. So, I would pick 25ACP with just those two options.

I guess if you've got it, use it. If you're shopping for a SD gun, go for something bigger.

Pyro
August 30, 2011, 09:34 PM
I pocket carried a .25 acp before I bought a derringer for pocket carry.
I know Cobra Arms makes a derringer in .25 acp.
I've never seen a .25 acp revolver, but I know have to exist somewhere.

MUSICALGUNNUT45
August 30, 2011, 10:03 PM
I wouldn't trust my life 25. And personally I think the practical use of the cartridge has declined as firearms technology improves. I mean they have 380s and 32s now that are just as small and considerably lighter than the 25s that were made 50 years ago. I'd say spring for a kahr p380 or something similar. It's practically as small as the old colt 25s and packs a much bigger punch, I mean don't get me wrong 25 will kill you but so can bb guns and I wouldn't want to defend myself with one of those either.

Ratshooter
August 30, 2011, 11:29 PM
I don't know of any 32s or 380s as small as my Beretta 950BS. Thats why I own it. It will fit when a bigger gun will not. I have no delusions about its ability to stop. But having this gun when I can't have any other makes me feel safer.

And the people that say they would rather have a 22 than a 25 because the ammo is cheaper makes no sense to me. So what? Cheaper doesn't make it better. Cheaper is not the question. I don't care what 25 ACP cost. I don't shoot that much of it. The cost is not a factor when I am certain the round will feed and will go off because of the centerfire priming. That makes it worth every cent they charge for it.

The OP asked if the 25 was a good stopper. In most cases no. With a well placed shot or better "shots" it will do. It has "done" many times in the past. The link in post #9 makes a good read. And it makes a lot of sense. The tiny guns are hard to shoot well when shooting targets. When used for PD they may be very hard to hit with.

I like this article on stopping power of rounds.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs3.htm#The%20Myth%20of%20Energy%20Transfer

joneb
August 31, 2011, 01:09 AM
http://www.brassfetcher.com/Comparative%20Analysis%20of%20the%20Terminal%20Effectiveness%20of%20the%2022LR%20and%2025ACP%20handgun%2012APR11.pdf

Clark
August 31, 2011, 01:15 AM
My brother carries my atomic 25acp handloads for shooting through elk skulls.

dprice3844444
August 31, 2011, 01:18 AM
raven made a small 25 auto

natman
August 31, 2011, 04:56 AM
I don't know of any 32s or 380s as small as my Beretta 950BS. Thats why I own it. It will fit when a bigger gun will not. I have no delusions about its ability to stop. But having this gun when I can't have any other makes me feel safer.


The closest thing to the 950 currently offered in the US is the Beretta 21 BOBCAT.
"Chambered for .22LR or .25ACP (6.35 mm). This compact, rugged small frame measures just 4.9 inches (125 mm) overall and weighs only 11.5 ounces (325 grams)." [It doesn't say, but I'll bet that's unloaded]

Kel-tec P32
Calibers: 32 AUTO
Weight unloaded: 6.6 oz. 186g
Loaded magazine: 2.8 oz. 81mm [9.4 oz loaded]
Length: 5.1" 129mm
Height: 3.5" 89mm
Width: .75" 19mm

Kel-tec P3AT
Calibers: .380 AUTO
Weight unloaded: 8.3 oz. 235g
Loaded magazine: 2.8 oz. 81g [11.1 oz loaded]
Length: 5.2" 132mm
Height: 3.5" 89mm
Width: .77" 20mm

Personally, for an extra .3 inch in length and at 11.1 oz loaded, I'd take the 380.

http://www.berettausa.com/products/model-21-bobcat/
http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/pistols/p-32/
http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/pistols/p-3at/

PRM
August 31, 2011, 08:41 AM
I don't know of any 32s or 380s as small as my Beretta 950BS. Thats why I own it. It will fit when a bigger gun will not.

Seecamp .32

NAA Guardian .32

NAA makes the Guardian in .380, but to me its thicker and is worse for printing when pocket carried.

I've had a Guardian in .32 for about 8 years now and have been well pleased.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
August 31, 2011, 09:01 AM
Either, or.
I would agree they are both very close in ballistics.

As to those who say anything less than (insert caliber here) is no good at all, I certainly would not want to be shot by a .22 or a .25 on any part of my body!

TwoWheelFiend
August 31, 2011, 09:43 AM
If the objective is to neutralize a threat as soon as possable, in my opinion a .25 or a .32 are not adequate choices. For a little larger of a frame you could have a .38 +p or a .357 mag. I would not trust my life to a .25 or .32

Victor69
August 31, 2011, 11:21 AM
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz95/VictorCastle/DSC_0695.jpg

Ratshooter
August 31, 2011, 01:38 PM
Natman and RM I was wondering who would come after me when I wrote that.:neener: The Guardian is a little heavier at 13.7 oz. and the Kel-Tecs are just a little bigger. But there are several that are close enough. I had a Keltec 32 and wish I hadn't sold it.

At about 8oz. and 9 shots the little 950 is a good hideout gun. I looked at the model 21 Beretta but it just seemed a little chunkier. Same as the Taurus answer to the model 21.

That little browning or one of the Baurer 25s would be a close match. The only problem is getting them so small you can't hardly shoot the darn things.

Victor69
August 31, 2011, 03:03 PM
Believe it or not that Baby Browing is pretty easy to shoot, in fact it's easier to shoot then a North American Arms .22.With your finger on the trigger and possibly two on the grip it just falls into place.

Onward Allusion
August 31, 2011, 03:06 PM
You have to understand that the 22LR numbers are from rifle length barrels. The .25ACP out of short barrels (2") produce more energy than the 22LR. One exception may be the 22LR Aquila 60 grain SSS loads, although I have not had a chance to fully chrono them out.

BTW, both can and have killed and are better than bare hands or a rape-whistle.

Jesse Heywood
August 31, 2011, 11:49 PM
25 or 22 are better than no gun at all. I remember swapping lies with fellow officers back in the 70s. One told about having to serve a warrant on a woman that was well over 300 lb and nasty. She held a 25 acp to a guy forcing him to use his tongue. Another officer and I looked at each other and said we would have taken our chances against the 25.

oldfool
September 1, 2011, 12:23 AM
thank you natman
I figured somebody ought point that comparison out, well done

I own the Beretta 950 tip-up barrel 25acp, and it is so tiny that the tip-up is pretty handy
bought it NIB back-when only because tiny enough to go in milady's too tiny purse
"25 or 22 are better than no gun at all", yes

(smart lady, she just got a bigger purse that could handle a 3" Ruger SP101 instead)

But, that was before today's 7-shot 380 acp derringers came along
You always give up something out of 'too short' barrels, even with 380, though not as much as give up w/ 357 out of snubbies vs. full size guns
I just see no point anymore in 25 acp for pocket derringers, unless the web of your hand simply cannot handle 380 acp with a two finger grip
and I would not want to depend only on 'up the nostril' hits or 'behind the ear' shots with any of 'em

as to OP question, keyword Tijuana methinks
IIFC, our brethren south of the border are subject to pretty severe caliber limitations under Mexican law (unless they work for a cartel). Might be OP is limited to something like 380 or less ??

PANCH
September 1, 2011, 03:26 AM
Thank you for all your help. I actually got me a .38 sp. I appreciate all your input. Feeling a whole lot better now

riomedinamike
September 2, 2011, 01:31 AM
My first small pocket pistol was a seecamp in 25 auto, which appear to be somewhat rare. The seecamp in 32 changed the game, and i bought a couple of those, even though they were limited at the time to winchester silvertip ammo.

Then i think beretta was the next major player to come out with their version of the 32 auto, though not quite as slick as the seecamp, which sold well above list price at the time.

now there are many more options in 380 which are just about as small as the original 25's.

The 25's i've had were always much more reliable than any small 22 auto.

Like you, i now mostly carry a S&W airweight with buffalo bore 158 +p hot hollowpoints. Occasionally if i am wearing shorts i will pack a kel-tec 380.

There are now some small 9mm's i would consider, the taurus or roarbaugh (sp?)

rfwobbly
September 2, 2011, 09:49 PM
Both are functionally equivalent when launched from identical platforms.

Both suck compared to all larger cartridges.

Both are far better than fists or harsh words.


You forgot one....

Both beat 4 aces. :neener:

woodsong
September 3, 2011, 01:08 PM
I think a .25 has a chance. After the bullet bounces off your target, there's a chance he could step on it it might roll like a marble, making him slip and fall.

steelbird
September 3, 2011, 08:44 PM
Well, I suppose it could be a stopper if you shoot the BG in the eye..........

Warp
September 3, 2011, 10:32 PM
They are both terrible

Bigkrackers
September 3, 2011, 11:17 PM
I always shake my head at these threads, not from the question being asked, but from most of the responses. I will say, the replies to the OP are more civilized on this forum than on a lot of others.

I do not own a SD caliber under 9mm so I don't have a horse in this race, however, I suspect that a lot of people think that if and when the time comes to use their gun in a SD situation they will be about 50 yards away from the BD and will already have the drop on him. So you'll just take all the time you need to line up those sights, make sure you have a good grip and your stance is correct, then squeeze the trigger nice and slow as you put two in the chest and one in the head. I think a lot of folks also have this delusion that they are so ultra aware of what it going on around them that they will be able to see trouble coming 100 yards away. Of course you would never get distracted by your kids, wife or that hot blond with the athletic bra and tiny running shorts.

When it does go down, it will probably be within 10 feet and it's going to be fast. The BD may already be on top of you and you might be fighting to get your gun out.

Would a .45 acp be a better caliber in a SD situation? You bet. But will a .25, .32, or 380 make the BD give pause to the current course of his/her action? You bet.

So carry the caliber that you want if it means you will carry it and shoot the heck out of it so your good with it.

Snowbandit
September 3, 2011, 11:43 PM
No one else has yet mentioned it, but our OP lists his location as Tijuana. Guns of all kinds are highly restricted in Mexico and, if I recall correctly, all military calibers are absolutely forbidden to civilians. In a later post he mentions that he got a 38 Special. I think that is the largest anyone can legally buy or posses down there. Good choice, all things considered.

sm
September 4, 2011, 12:14 AM
Mirrors how I was raised, and mentored.

No. I and mine never felt under gunned with a Beretta in .25 ACP, nor do, or would I now. Oh I respect and appreciate the Jetfires and Bobcats.

I admit having a "thing" with the Beretta 21 A, in .22 long rifle another "something" I was raised and mentored with. Still...and one would have to know my mentors and "work" I have done to understand why I was never and am not now one to feel under gunned with a Beretta 21 A in .22 lr. as well.

I will share I have a thing for Fiocchi ammo in .25 ACP and .22 lr as well...

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