How much do you carry?


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WonderNine
January 24, 2004, 01:46 PM
I carry alot of stuff normally, but who carries 5 different knives? :scrutiny:

Is it just me or is this guy a little bit goofy, or "off".

http://senshido.savi.ca/viewtopic.php?t=152&sid=4399b103aee27dc1689f68b851bce5ef

http://www.selfdefenseforums.com/forums/attachment.php?

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JamisJockey
January 24, 2004, 01:53 PM
I think he's proving a point. I doubt his primary carry is 5 knives....
Oh, and the bulge of the butt of his pistol is clearly visable in the pictures. And, he seems to have his pistol located a little far to the back.....
Notably is the absence of a non-lethal (such as oc spray). Being armed to the hilt would be a lawyers field day in a self defensive situation.
When I took my CCW class, our instructor had 4 firearms concealed on his person, two fullsize and two snubbies, dressed similiarly to that guy.

WonderNine
January 24, 2004, 01:56 PM
He seems to be one of those types into holsters that don't offer much retention. I guess according to the thread he's a DEA agent. I can imagine him getting in a scuffle....stuff flying everywhere. :rolleyes:

And I don't think I'd want a handcuff behind my tailbone....bad idea...

WonderNine
January 24, 2004, 01:59 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=749634

The Tourist
January 24, 2004, 02:03 PM
I carry ONE knife 100% of the time, and a handgun 80%. Let me explain.

Wisconsin does not have a CCW permit. When I am at home, there is always a handgun within arms reach. (It's usually a 1911, a 4516 or my new Glock 27, purchased for that reason.)

In Wisconsin, we can now carry at work, which my boss permits. While this town of Madison is a liberal-rich environment, I'm lucky enough to work for a guy who teaches rifle-craft to kids for a hunter-safety program.

My Glock sits empty in my car during transport, with one end of the gun-rug half unzipped and two magazines in my jacket or glove-box for easy access.

The rest I leave up to 'condition yellow,' my usual attention state of mind.

WonderNine
January 24, 2004, 02:09 PM
I think carrying two guns is a good idea, but I just don't get the five knives thing. I guess if both of my guns and my knife break I'll have to use my ninja skills.

And maybe catch bullets in my teeth like Bruce Leeroy. :scrutiny:

Snowdog
January 24, 2004, 02:14 PM
Who carries a cellphone and a pager? I'm sure there's a reason, but it eludes me.
I think he's proving a point.

I agree, for his sake.

WonderNine
January 24, 2004, 02:18 PM
Who carries a cellphone and a pager? I'm sure there's a reason, but it eludes me.

Just gonna take a stab at it, maybe his department uses pagers and since he's supposedly DEA they wouldn't want to page his personal cell phone. And his pager is probably for department use only? Just guessing here.

Looks like he's got one of those slapsticks too....

And several other unidentifiable items....

OF
January 24, 2004, 02:41 PM
That is a major loadout. With a loadout like that you'd think the biggest danger would be forgetting where the thing you wanted was. :)

Which is amusing now, but could be trouble if you are up the creek and need one of those items in a major hurry. Pare down a little and have a fighting blade on each side (fixed blades) concealed and a utility folder on the strong-side. Then move the back-up gun to the weak side.

The other crap can go just about anywhere I guess. I suppose you need to get to handcuffs with your weak hand...

- Gabe

Baba Louie
January 24, 2004, 02:51 PM
Let's see...
Kershaw clipped to right front pocket.
Little Leek for money clip in left front pocket.
Case Butterbean in right front pocket to actually... use.
SAK "Soldier" on keychain.
Nope, only 4, not 5.

Goofy?
Off?

Probably.

Apparently, I do like knives :D

WonderNine
January 24, 2004, 02:58 PM
Let's see...
Kershaw clipped to right front pocket.
Little Leek for money clip in left front pocket.
Case Butterbean in right front pocket to actually... use.
SAK "Soldier" on keychain.
Nope, only 4, not 5.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=749722

5 :D

I think I even missed some from what you said...LoL

Headless Thompson Gunner
January 24, 2004, 03:08 PM
I have a close friend who carries 5 or 6 knives everyday. He got into that habbit while he was working in a knife shop. He says it makes it easier to sell knives if the customers can see him carrying those same knives.

His usual inventory is:
Benchmade folder in right pocket
Al Mar folder in left pocket
Microtech folder in pouch on belt
Cold Steel Desperado in small of back
Camillus boot knife on ankle
Small lockback in any random pocket

He's looking for someone to build a custom sheath system so that he can carry his kukri on his back.

Oh, and he also packs a Sig in .40, and 4 spare mags. And usally an Asp in his back pocket.


Whenever I start to feel guilty about carrying my third knife, all I have to do is look at him. My three blades look downright normal next to his loadout.

DakotaSig
January 24, 2004, 03:08 PM
Well, aside from the cuffs and badge, I don't think he's carrying all that much more than any well prepared citizen. Let's see: gun, BUG, reloads for both. I don't count the folders for tactical use, so one fixed blade. A few impact weapons: kubotan, sap. I think that cylinder with the black strap is OC spray, so he has at least one non-lethal non-contact option. This all seems reasonable to me, why not?

What's the problem?

In fact, I can think of a few things he doesn't have. I wouldn't want to be without my multi-tool for one. I don't see a PDA either. As for his commo. gear, cellphone and pager is the bare minimum. I also carry a small VHF radio programmed to operate on our local Emergency Services Network. The radio is probably the single most used item that I carry followed by the multi-tool. I would also recommend a small first-aid/survival tin and fire making kit.

WonderNine
January 24, 2004, 03:10 PM
No problem at all! All the knives just stuck in my head. (No pun intended).

I think it's hilarious that somebody would carry that many.

What's wrong with one knife and a multi-tool or swiss army knife?

Maybe they're good luck charms....

Some of these guys are loaded out like Mad Max in Beyond Thunderdome....:D

Harold Mayo
January 24, 2004, 03:17 PM
The damned link doesn't work for me but I recognize the items. If it's who I think it is, that actually IS what the guy normally carries.

He seems to be legitimate and fairly accomplished.

I think that the pager is what is carried by the tactical team that he's on while the cell phone is general purpose.

I have to agree, though, that it seems a bit much.

zahc
January 24, 2004, 03:32 PM
Seems if I wore that much stuff, it'd compromise mobility too much! I'd feel very well armed with the auto+mag, and a nice folder in the front pocket, weapon-wise.

WonderNine
January 24, 2004, 03:35 PM
Seems if I wore that much stuff, it'd compromise mobility too much!

That's kinda the way I feel about it. I don't like to carry stuff to the point that it gets in the way all the time.

I carry alot, but I try to carry it so that it's out of the way, example: I use a horizontal mag pouch for spare mag carry and it's fully enclosed so I don't have to worry about retention. If I carry a fixed blade it's also in a horizontal sheath.

Snowdog
January 24, 2004, 03:42 PM
they wouldn't want to page his personal cell phone

Good point... brain no work today....


What's the problem?

In fact, I can think of a few things he doesn't have. I wouldn't want to be without my multi-tool for one. I don't see a PDA either. As for his commo. gear, cellphone and pager is the bare minimum. I also carry a small VHF radio programmed to operate on our local Emergency Services Network. The radio is probably the single most used item that I carry followed by the multi-tool. I would also recommend a small first-aid/survival tin and fire making kit.

DakotaSig,

I guess I'm kind of dense today, but are you being facetious or serious? A fire making kit? No offense intended, but your post has the potential to be quite funny...

I suppose I travel light, but I've never felt the need to carry anything more than what I've carried for years: a pistol, spare mag, flashlight, folding knife and cellphone (all decent quality, of course).
I've never felt deprived of any critical item.

Old-but-tough Nokia, long-in-the-tooth Benchmade Stryker, Kahr K9
and my-attempt-at-tactical Inova LED X5.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid95/pfa68b9d58020570bbbd6596c7d19df6d/fa2daba6.jpg

WonderNine
January 24, 2004, 03:53 PM
I guess I'm kind of dense today, but are you being facetious or serious? A fire making kit? No offense intended, but your post has the potential to be quite funny...

I'll have to remember that. Fill up an old Altoids can with some gauze and matches and carry it around in a knife pouch.....:D :D :D

ROFL!

Yes officer, I just escaped from the loony bin. Is Ronald Reagan still President?

DakotaSig
January 24, 2004, 04:19 PM
Everyone's gear will reflect their own circumstances. In my case, I live in a relatively remote area. Cell coverage is very spotty, hence my reliance on VHF. Even my radio is not 100%.

Last night it got down to -30F. Should you happen to get stranded, help is a long way off, if they even know you need help. Unprepared people die from exposure here each winter. When I was going to school in Fargo (ND's largest city) some people froze to death stuck in their car within the city limits. They were stuck about 6 blocks from my apartment! Given our conditions, some kind of gear to make fire is essential. It doesn't need to be very big. A decent kit will be about the size of the wallet in the picture.

WonderNine
January 24, 2004, 04:26 PM
I remember that. But from what I remember they weren't even wearing decent winter clothing? I'm in ND btw.

A winter survival kit is something that should be in every car up here, but I'm not going to carry that stuff on my person all the time. Alot of times I don't even carry my cell phone. What did people do back in the 1980's? Oh yea, they didn't have them.

My winter survival kit is a ski mask and gloves if I'm in town.

Snowdog
January 24, 2004, 04:36 PM
My winter survival kit is a ski mask and gloves if I'm in town

I guess I'd better stop complaining about the weather here in WNC.

jwmoore
January 24, 2004, 04:59 PM
The pictures posted on the other forum come from Self-Defense Forums... You can find the original thread here (http://www.selfdefenseforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1974).

The point of the original thread was to show how much can be concealed with just a shirt... SouthNarc is well respected by those who know him.

I encourage everyone to read the original thread at SDF.

~Wesley

cratz2
January 24, 2004, 04:59 PM
Holy cow! That's enough to set up his own urban Skunki-tacticallity kiosk in a mall for Chrisakes!

Funny thing is, I look at all that stuff and wonder why he can't sneak one more mag for the 1911... :confused:

DesertRat
January 24, 2004, 05:22 PM
This guy seems a little "off," as I've worked with everybody from US Marshals Office / USCS down to local Sheriff's deparment, and I have yet to see anyone who carried that much stuff let alone felt they needed to. One particular USCS supervisor (now retired) with whom I've worked simply carried a S&W 659 in a shoulder holster w/ 4 spare mags and a sharp folding knife and this guy was heavily involved in the drug war against Pablo Escobar, back in the day.

Interestingly, if this guy is DEA, I certainly don't recognize that badge as being DEA issue. Perhaps he's a "lone operator" who needs all that stuff. :rolleyes: Anyway, Federal law enforcement, much like state and local law enforcement typically don't work alone, nor even in pairs especially on things such as investigation of drug trafficking, etc. They work in TEAMS--large groups of people, often times a dozen or more.

I've seen primary guns, backup guns, perhaps one fixed blade and one small folder for small chores, and of course shotguns and rifles in the trunks of cars until needed. Chances are this guy will never get the opportunity to use all that stuff. 'Nuff said.

As for carrying a pager and a cell phone that is NOT at all uncommon. Most agencies issue pagers particularly to Detectives, Investigators, Special Agents and the like. Mobile phones are typically personally owned and paid for as the dept./agency does not have the funding. Strange, where is his two-way radio? Perhaps its back at his office.

WonderNine
January 24, 2004, 06:55 PM
Funny thing is, I look at all that stuff and wonder why he can't sneak one more mag for the 1911...

That's what I was thinking, maybe he can drop the twin knives and get a dual mag holder instead. He'd still have 3 or 4 knives left! I think that's plenty. I'll bet if he's in the situation where he runs out of ammo he'd wish he brought another spare instead of 6 knives. :rolleyes:

BenW
January 24, 2004, 07:14 PM
Who carries a cellphone and a pager? I'm sure there's a reason, but it eludes me.
Actually, me and a lot of other people I know. My work issues me both a cellphone and pager because I'm our emergency response officer. The cell is for mundane everyday stuff and I have the option of ignoring a call on it if I'm in a meeting or don't want to be bothered (like at 2AM when I'm asleep). If the pager goes off, I know it's the Coast Guard and I'd better damn well answer it pronto. Not to mention that unlike a phone, the pager can be rotated once in a while so that I'm not on call 24/7/365.

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
January 24, 2004, 07:25 PM
Geez, I carry a pager and 2 cell phones for work. One cellphone is a GPS model so they always will know where to find me if they need me.

BTW, I'm on 24/7/365 call.

Regards,
Rabbit.

admar2
January 24, 2004, 08:10 PM
he's carrying all that stuff and only 1 spare mag?

:banghead:



might consider dropping a couple of the 5 or more knives and carrying another mag.

BluesBear
January 24, 2004, 08:21 PM
He clearly stated that he was carring his departmant mandated pager.

People with phones and pagers aren't at all uncommon. I used to do it. I gave people my pager number and then it was my choice whether or not to use my minutes to call them back.

I have seen several officers carrying two cell phones. One department issue and one privately owned. Just as many civilians carry a personal phone as well as a company phone.

Mil Novecientos Once
January 24, 2004, 08:24 PM
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid87/p45c85f833325522ed604ba1cfc9d8e07/fa9ca2c0.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid91/p2f98ebcf368dfc3a07d586034bbde101/fa6025b4.jpg

Snowdog
January 24, 2004, 10:06 PM
they wouldn't want to page his personal cell phone

Good point... brain no work today....


Yeah, I kinda got the idea a while ago, but thanks for the additional clarification.

;)

SouthNarc
January 24, 2004, 11:20 PM
Gentlemen,

I was directed to this thread by an aquaintance of mine and after reading it, figured that your questions could be answered first hand.

First off I am not employed by the Drug Enforcement Administration nor have I ever claimed to. I am a sheriff's deputy who is assigned to a multi-jurisdictional drug task force in south Mississippi, which is comprised of five agencies and is funded by a HIDTA (high intensity drug trafficking area) initiative. Six of my fourteen years in law-enforcement have been working drugs exclusively. Prior to that I was a soldier in the U.S. Army.

Secondly that's not a normal load-out. If you actually read the thread and not just focus on the photos, you'll see that the impetus for this was a discussion at self defense forums that took place where several members were saying that it was impossible to carry a full sized handgun. I disagree as I do so everyday, and to make my point I loaded down with an extreme amount of gear and concealed it to make that point. To put things in context it would help if the text was correlated to the photos. I know it's a long thread but if one takes the time to read it, I think you'll understand the spirit in which I wrote it. There are some other photo tutorials in that same sub-forum that may help you get a feel for where I'm coming from.

Finally, to date, I've never had any problem with my "low-retention" Milt Sparks SS II. It's never come flying out of my holster during a foot-pursuit, bailing over fences, during a search warrant, or in a knock down drag out brawl, all of which I engage in on a pretty regular basis.

One of the regulars on this forum, Paul Gomez, has met and trained with me, so if anything is in question as to my credibility, hopefully that can be alleviated between a known regular and the merit of my own words.


Respectfully,
SN

Drjones
January 24, 2004, 11:35 PM
That guy and those pictures have been discussed at length on other forums I frequent.

He is a very well-respected undercover police officer, not some rambo-wannabe.

YES, those pictures were taken simply to prove a point about how much and what types of gear one can effectively carry concealed.

Drjones
January 24, 2004, 11:36 PM
Oh.

Hey SouthNarc!

Great to see you here! Even though I've never chatted with you before, I've seen those photos and seen you talked about a lot.

You have made yourself quite famous with those pics!

Welcome, thank you for your service, and I hope you stick around here!


Drjones

Andrew Rothman
January 24, 2004, 11:45 PM
Yes, please do stick around. Nice photo essay.

BluesBear
January 24, 2004, 11:48 PM
Welcome Aboard SN

Glad to see you here. Informed input is always welcomed.

We hope you stick around.


Oh, and...

new guy buys the ammo. :D

SouthNarc
January 24, 2004, 11:49 PM
Well thanks guys, I appreciate it. I'll just sit back and read a bit since I'm new here.:)

tyme
January 25, 2004, 12:16 AM
Just what we need... another fan of Way of the Gun... :)

WonderNine
January 25, 2004, 12:26 AM
Welcome to THR SouthNarc. I apologize for the comments at the beginning of this thread, I was just having some fun with some random pictures I found out there.

I hope to see you posting here often!

SouthNarc
January 25, 2004, 12:38 AM
No problem at all WonderNine.:) I can certainly understand how the pictures can be taken out of context. That's why photos with text are such a powerful learning tool because they are visual. Since I started doing on-line tutorials at SDF I've noted that quite often I have to go back into a thread and restate something I've already written simply because of the power of imagery in overriding text. No biggie either way. I'm used to it and I don't mind critique of what I write and post about at all, otherwise I'd just lurk. That's the whole purpose of having discussion forums!;)

DakotaSig
January 25, 2004, 12:49 AM
:D

WonderNine
January 25, 2004, 01:06 AM
:D

Everybody loves a happy ending! :)

The Tourist
January 25, 2004, 04:02 AM
I'm not a LEO, never have been. But I can see how this happens, maybe not to the extreme.

Call it 'pocket creep.'

You carry the usual stuff, a knife, a wallet and keys, perhaps a firearm and a reload, then the personal stuff, medicine and glasses.

In your jacket a SureFire fits nicely, and then you run into a small handy screwdriver bit set from Benchmade. Perhaps a spare mag goes into the breast pocket, a cell phone into the other. Now it becomes winter and a whole lotta extreme weather items show up.

You never meant to be a 'survivalist,' it's just that all of these good ideas came one at a time, and each one took up just 'a little more space.'

It happened to me. One day I picked up my unlined jean jacket and it felt the weight of a flak vest. Like I said, I'm not a professional, and the concept of carrying all of this 'emergency gear' finally got to me.

I made a list of all of the truly useful stuff, and refined the contents of the very wide seat consol in my F-150.

I now carry just the basics and a knife, with the 'Rambo stuff' nearby in the truck. A piece of two can be moved when necessary. And like a wardrobe, certain things change with the seasons; I have hand-cleaner for fall and winter clean-ups, and extra sun glasses for the summer.

I do believe some guys fall into the trap of 'too much.' It was me.

Diggler
January 25, 2004, 02:24 PM
When I was a little kid, there was the cartoon of the Harlem Globetrotters... ever see that guy who could pull anything he ever needed out of his gigantic 'fro?

:D

LiquidTension
January 25, 2004, 05:53 PM
What kind of holster is that? The kydex one with offset loops, I mean.

Highland Ranger
January 25, 2004, 06:57 PM
I say you put that much stuff on your belt without suspenders and your pants fall down under normal activity - let along running down the BG's

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