What is a Good for the Subgun matches on a budget


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JapYank
August 31, 2011, 01:03 AM
OK this is my first post.
I am thinking getting my first Subgun.
I want to use it to compete in the Subgun matches and for the hell of it since they are so cool
Well I am on a budget since I have a SVI Open gun on order….
So my question is what is the best budget Subgun that is…
1) Good for the Subgun matches
2) Accurate shooter and handles well
3) Need to have select fire control
4) Good supply of replacement parts
5) Good iron sights

I know M-16 will fit the bill but only if I can afford it but not this time.
I am considering the following to be my choice from my price range
UZI
Starling
MK 76 / 760
In 9mm since I have the Dillon 550 / 650 (W/Bullet & Case feeder) setup to reload

Any opinions will help

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Dustin0
August 31, 2011, 08:30 AM
Uzi would be my 1st pick. But I a M11 would fill the bill and be easier on the pocket book.

Sam1911
August 31, 2011, 08:52 AM
Yeah, I'd say the M11 and then you can add Lage MAX11 (http://www.max-11.com/) upgrades to make it more useful as finances allow.

I'd rather have one of those tricked out with his stuff than an Uzi, if I wanted it for competition and practical use more than for nostalgia.

JapYank
August 31, 2011, 02:19 PM
Thank you Guys M11…..I knew someone was going to tell me that.

After the replies I looked in to the M11 a little bit more and found http://www.mac-11.net/ it had some good information regarding my questions.
It looks like the SWD M-11/Nine + MAX-11 Slow Fire Upper Receiver will fulfill the following well

1) Good for the Subgun matches
2) Accurate shooter and handles well
3) Need to have select fire control
4) Good supply of replacement parts
5) Good iron sights

Once again
Thank you

Sam1911
August 31, 2011, 02:53 PM
Yeah. If one was building a new sub-gun from the ground up, one could do better what with the developments in firearms design, materials, ergonomics, etc. in the last 30 years.

But since we're all stuck adapting pre-1986 technology (:() the Max-11 setups are about the best thing going. Arguably, a dedicated 9mm AR sub-gun is a better shooter, especially if you already run an AR, but that's a lot of money for a problematic platform that's a bit too much gun for the cartridge, maybe.

Sam1911
August 31, 2011, 03:01 PM
Oh...and the Soumi mag conversion should prove interesting, if it ever comes out, and works.

JapYank
September 1, 2011, 11:43 PM
Thanks Sam
Yeah I have 3 x AR-15’s and love to have a M-16 but just can’t swing the $$$
In my budget I love the Sterling and the S&W 76 / MK760
What is your opinion on the two?
I think they look cool !!

Tom

dprice3844444
September 1, 2011, 11:57 PM
sten gun

barnetmill
September 1, 2011, 11:58 PM
A few years ago I belonged to a suburban maryland gunclub that had a lot of machine gun owners (the county (PG) shut it down for other reasons). There was one fellow there that let us fire a full mag in his Mac 9x19mm that had been fitted with an M16 stock w/buffer still in it. Fired real slow and it was real controllable. He let us fire it at 50 yards and it was real sweet. Get a Mac and get that type of installation done is the way to go. I do not know the prices now, but the mac were cheapest of the full autos at that time and probably still are. Sten guns are also nice.
9 mm is the cheapest for center fire ammo and so on the basis of economy is preferred. Make sure what you buy will function with the cheapest russian steel case.
I myself will not own a FA due to the price and the difficulty of being able to shoot it locally. Our local ranges do not permit use of FA. Legal penalties are too heavy to violate. Sucks does it not. Maybe a legal SBR

Sam1911
September 2, 2011, 07:47 AM
I've never fired a sterling, but they did have a great reputation.

The S&W76/Swedish K/Carl Gustav M43/Port Said is a decent weapon. If you're into them, I'd consider contacting BRP Guns (http://www.brpguns.com/categories/Machineguns/Stemple-Takedown-Guns-%28STG%29/) and looking at their Stemple Takedown Gun line, which adapts that pattern to a number of more ergonomic and flexible parts kits. Plus, they have them in stock for only a few thousand.

JapYank
September 3, 2011, 06:34 AM
Thanks guys for the opinion.
I am getting confused personally I really like the #1 Sterling, #2 Uzi, #3 MK76 and the M11 being at the bottom. This is within my budget.
I guess I have to bite the bullet and raise the budget or stick with what I can get for the money and pick from what I like the most I think I am leaning towered to the Sterling now since I have been reading good reviews about them.

LiquidTension
September 4, 2011, 02:50 PM
I had an M11/9 with the Lage upper on it. I like that setup much better than an Uzi. Easier to mount optics, variable rate of fire via different bolts, bottom rail for a vert grip, side rails for whatever.

Sgt. Stiglitz
September 12, 2011, 01:34 PM
It did have an issue with mags at first but it was na easy fix and it runs great now.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6345120&postcount=45

JTW Jr.
September 12, 2011, 11:38 PM
I would vote UZI. Been shooting one for the past 5 years or so , before that is was an m-11. They are nice IF you put the LAGE upper on it , but the lower is still m-11 and the parts do wear out fast , but it does get you in there shooting cheaper.

Someone that used a LAGE upper on their M-11 at our match this Sunday was discussing his with me , he loves it , but said the wait times are long now for an upper. He has the Max31 on his. It runs great with the Suomi drums or the coffin mags.

Friend shooting his MAX31 uppered M-11 with Soumi drum :)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b17/VegasSMG/subgun%20match%2009-11-11/SaraSubgun1854.jpg

Trebor
September 13, 2011, 01:33 AM
Tell me more about that Max 31?

What host guns does it work on? (Mac 10, Mac 11, etc) What is the caliber?

The idea of using that Soumi drum is very appealing...

MasterSergeantA
September 13, 2011, 05:24 PM
Max-31 is designed for the M-11/9 which is 9mm Para. The 31A is for the M11A1 chambered in 9mm Kurz (.380).

Nothing has been made for the M-10 yet...perhaps in the future. The only probable advantage might be using Thompson drums (IMHO) and they are neither cheap nor abundant.

I have a stock of coffin (50 rd) and drum (72 rd) Suomi magazines from my SCA upper, so it will be interesting to see Richard's approach to making the wee beastie run.

http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?56430-LAGE-MAX31-and-MAX31A

I have e-mailed him and had myself added to the list. You are under no obligation to buy the unit when it is finally available. He also makes replacement parts for the M-11/9 that are superior to the originals.

Having said all that, if I had the money right now, I would buy an UZI. A bit more reliable and parts are available. There is also a .22LR conversion that makes it cheaper to shoot.

My M-11/9 originally cost me $800, but I have easily another $3K in uppers, stocks, suppressors, etc. Large number of combinations and permutations that will run from 1200 rpm down to about 600 rpm. Still not as much as a bare bones UZI. And Richard also makes a .22LR conversion as well, although I really want see Calico make theirs so I can use the 100 round magazines.

I like the Stens, Sterlings, and MK760s (or any other Swedish 'K' variants), but most of them are one-trick-ponies and overpriced for what they can do. The early Swedes at least let you use the Suomi drums.

But to each his own. NFA stuff is an expensive hobby, so you should buy whatever does it for you.

Trebor
September 13, 2011, 08:21 PM
MasterSargent,

Thanks for the info. I do have a FA UZI, but I'm thinking of a MAC for a second SMG and that drum looks very tempting.

JTW Jr.
September 13, 2011, 10:51 PM
MasterSargent....Do you happen to know what Richard's wait time is for a MAX-31 ?

MasterSergeantA
September 14, 2011, 11:24 AM
My guess would be 4-8 months...but it would ONLY be a guess. You could try calling:

Lage Manufacturing, L.L.C.
(602) 430-1978
www.max-11.com

Or drop them an e-mail to m11stuff@hotmail.com and/or sales@max-11.com

I know that I am #230, but that gives me time to scratch the cash together.

FIVETWOSEVEN
September 14, 2011, 11:58 AM
Never thought I would read a thread that has to do with legal transferable MGs with budget in the title. :D

MasterSergeantA
September 14, 2011, 02:47 PM
Sign of the times, perhaps?

JapYank
September 14, 2011, 05:51 PM
Sorry, I am cheep and when it comes to guns I go crazy, I shoot USPSA and that is heavy on the wallet and I wanted to add a Subguns to my expanding collection.
So I have to start low and see what’s at the low end before I move up my BUDGET.
Well for now I think the UZI is at the top of the list but looking at the Richard’s upper it makes me think twice

JapYank
September 22, 2011, 01:19 AM
Thank you guys,

Today I bought my very first NFA,
After reading the post and thinking how I am going to use and want to do with the gun I settled for a M 11/9 !!!!
Well I just paid for it so I guess it is time for the paperwork and waiting game. :(

Cant wait to bring her to the range :)

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc240/kids_2_3/Guns/DSC00080.jpg

JapYank
October 6, 2011, 10:09 AM
JTW, I am on the Long waiting list for the MAX31, it looks the LAGE is a great place to do business with.
cant wait till the gun gets transferred and for the Upper.

JTW Jr.
October 6, 2011, 08:30 PM
Excellent choice.... you will love it.

MasterSergeantA
October 7, 2011, 03:33 PM
Richard's products are top notch. (I have several.) If you prefer not to wait for him, Alliance Armament is also offering a Suomi-based upper. http://www.alliancearmament.com/amp11.aspx Based on a phone call I got yesterday, they should be shipping within a week.

I am not endorsing this product over anything Richard makes; just offering information.

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