Safety Bullet


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safetybullet
January 24, 2004, 04:17 PM
Hi,

My name is Mike Worley I am the inventor of the Safety Bullet. Place this in your gun and if you need your firearm simply eject the bullet and its ready to fire if anyone else pulls the trigger with the Safety Bullet in it the Safety Bullet will instantly disable the firearm.

You can check it out at www.safetybullet.com for any questions please email me at any time. If this were loaded in every gun we could end accidental shooting once and for all.

Thanks

Mike Worley

First of all thanks for all the feedback. Now to answer some of your questions.

1. No it does not jam the gun when loading and ejecting. It is tested in several models of the same caliber to make sure it preforms as promised.

2. A snap cap does nothing other than protect the firing pin. The Safety Bullet when fired expands in the firing chamber and it can not be removed with out the ejector rod. You can not load a new and lethal round once the Safety Bullet has been fired.

3. Compare the Safety Bullet to a cable lock. Middle of the night you have an intruder. First you go and find the key , lights out, in the dark try to put the key in the lock, undo the cable, load your gun. Or simply eject the Safety Bullet.

- How about a gun safe. Go to the safe in the dark, if you turn the light on the intruder will know where you are, try turning the tumbler until you find the right combination and then get your gun out, or eject the Safety Bullet

You tell me what is easier?

For all those of you that have kids and loaded guns start reading some of the stories of accidental shootings. After you attend the kids funeral along comes the sherrif and you go to jail. Then you lose all rights of gun ownership. Its your choise.

Nothing can touch the speed and ease of the Safety Bullet.

One thing I have noticed in all the feedback that I have received is that no one has told me of a better safety device. If anyone knows of anything that can be used to make a firearm safer and is better than the Safety Bullet, PLEASE enlighten me.

I reread all the feedback again and still no one has informed me of a better safety device. If anyone can think of a better way to make our guns safer I would like to hear about it. A lot of thought went into this. I will admit I do not have all the answers but I will work with anyone if the know of a better way or know how to improve on this.

I take it most of you do not use safety devices on your guns. If you did and tested the Safety Bullet against it the Safety Bullet would be far superior to anything that you currently have.

Again thanks for the feedback.

If you enjoyed reading about "Safety Bullet" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Derek Zeanah
January 24, 2004, 04:35 PM
So, if I grab my weapon in the night and forget about the Safety Bullet (tm) due to an adrenalin rush, I've disabled my weapon? :what: And a press-check shows that there's a round in the chamber, but doesn't indicate that it's a boobytrapped round? :scrutiny: And I'll need to make sure my non-shooting spouse is familiar with the function of the arm itself and with the need to eject the round in the chamber before firing, and we'll need to train on this constantly as she can forget in the year(s) that pass between loading the nightstand gun and it possibly needing to be used?

I think I'll pass. I'll cross my fingers for you in the hope that you don't get sued because Mom was careless and thought the gun was "safe" because she'd chambered one of your rounds, or because someone died when trying to defend themselves and fatally wedged their firearm.

[Edited to add] Welcome to the forum! It does sound like an interesting idea, but there are enough issues surrounding it that my first instinct is "beware!"

Oleg Volk
January 24, 2004, 04:44 PM
http://www.safetybullet.com
I will point him to this thread.

Jeff White
January 24, 2004, 04:46 PM
Hi Mike, welcome to THR. I looked at your webpage and I want to commend you for putting a lot of thought into your product.

That said, I would never use or recommend a product like The Safety Bullet to anyone. The first thing that comes to mind, is what if you needed your weapon for defensive use and you forgot that safety bullet was loaded? It leaves you with an ineffective club to defend yourself. Anyone who wanted to rely on a mechanical safety precaution like you are marketing would be served just as well by carrying in condition 3.

Unfortunately we will never be able to devise a mechanical safety device that will be 100% reliable and instantly available for defensive use. Personally I don't think we should encourage people to rely on any mechanical device. As soon as your device receives wide distribution, someone will leave a weapon they thought was loaded with safety bullet where they shouldn't and then there will be a tragedy. I'm afraid you'll hear the same old I didn't know it was loaded excuses. Only now it will be, "I was sure I chambered a safety bullet before I laid the weapon down."

The cause of the tragedy you documented on your website wasn't that there was no safety bullet in the chamber, it was that someone negligently left a loaded .45 auto where a child could access it. Real safety will always be found between the ears of the gun owner, no mechanical device will ever replace that.

Jeff

romulus
January 24, 2004, 04:49 PM
There is no substitute for proper firearms discipline. I agree with Derek that the disabling feature is more than I'm willing to accept. Follow the four laws of firearm safety (add the fifth, keep out of reach of children) and you'll never have an "accident". But your gun will be ready to go boom every time...

JShirley
January 24, 2004, 05:01 PM
Well, all responsible gun owners do not want their firearms used in an unsafe, dangerous, or criminal way. It does make sense to take measures to ensure this does not happen.

If anyone tries to fire my gun with the Safety Bullet in place, when they pull the trigger, the Safety Bullet instantly disables the firearm. The firearm is now inoperable until the Safety Bullet is removed.

This is a good and bad equation. If the owner has more than one firearm, with near-instant access, well and good. They can arm themselves against the threat with the second firearm. I would tend to think that owners who had more funds would also have more secure storage options, though.

What I am really afraid of, is someone attempting to use the firearm in a self-defense situation, and forgetting to dislodge the "Safety Bullet". They have effectively disarmed themselves.

We all must do our duty, as we understand it, to further responsible gun ownership and handling. It is well to understand that a firearm is a mechanical device, and can malfunction when most needed. For myself, I do not wish to use a device that could incapacitate my weapon. Others may choose to do so, and I believe they are not wrong to make this choice- but, when the first person using your device dies, don't beat yourself up about it. Firearms are mechanical devices, and subject to the failings of their operators.

Best of Luck with the invention!

John R. Shirley

Okiecruffler
January 24, 2004, 05:12 PM
I wouldn't use it, for the reasons already mentioned above, but it does seem like a good solution to those people with youngsters running about.

lapidator
January 24, 2004, 05:28 PM
Hi Mike,

How good is you quality control? How can I be sure that if the SafetyBullet(tm) is used, it will not come apart and leave a blockage in the barrel?


Question: How does it work in a revolver?

In a revolver the cylinder revolves. With the hammer back you can spin the cylinder, so the only way to be truely safe is to load a Safety Bullet in every chamber. So that no matter which chamber the hammer falls on it can only hit on a Safety Bullet. The Safety Bullet will instantly disable your firearm by locking itself in the firing chamber and the locking part of the Safety Bullet, the Ram, moves far enough forward so that its outboard end moves into the barrel. Now the cylinder can not revolve until the Safety Bullet is removed. Your gun is safe.
Is this some kind of joke? Ready in an instant?

We are in no way recommending that you keep your gun loaded. What we do recommend is to lock up your gun unloaded of all lethal rounds. keep one Safety Bullet in the fireing chamber and one in the top of the magazine.
Is it not true that you are recommending that one keep his gun loaded -- just with the capacity reduced by 2? Otherwise, "ready in an instant" is meaningless no?

(a) American Children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. The rate of accidental shooting is nearly 12 times higher in the United States than all the other top 25 industrial nations combined.

(d) Unsecured firearms in homes create the potential for accidental shooting and increase the risk of suicide.

http://www.safetybullet.com/pages/2/index.htm
This kind of propaganda in and of itself would be reason enough for me to never purchase anything from you.



Lapidator

vmi93
January 24, 2004, 05:30 PM
Don't they already have these? Aren't they called "snap-caps" or "dummy cartridges?"

I don't see any safety benefit to these either. The gun should be either empty or loaded with real ammo. No need to make things more complicated.

Standing Wolf
January 24, 2004, 05:34 PM
The differance with the Safety Bullet...

People who can't spell shouldn't cobble together web sites.

I believe the so-called "safety bullet" is a bad idea. Rule number one as I learned the three safety rules quite a few years ago was: "Every safety mechanism is always broken, even if it's a brand new gun." I believe it's always and everywhere a mistake to rely on any safety mechanism under any circumstances. I believe it makes infinitely more sense to teach children about firearms than try to protect them from mishandling guns.

I believe the so-called "Safety Bullet" could easily damage a firearm, and have no doubt a second round fired after it would pose a major safety problem: an exploded barrel. I'd guess most modern gun barrels would bulge before bursting and/or exploding, but a.) there are plenty of rusty old guns taking up space in night stands, and b.) you couldn't pay me enough money to fire a round into the plugged barrels of some of the low budget firearms on the market.

I doubt it's possible to design and manufacture a locking mechanism for firearms a child couldn't defeat, given enough time and determination and a modicum of ingenuity. There may well be child-proof safes on the market, but again, I believe it makes far more sense to gun-proof the child than try to child-proof the gun—and anyway, firearms don't offer much protection if they're not instantly accessible.

Range time is the answer. If you've ever wanted to watch a child's eyes bulge in astonishment, fire a round at an ordinary can of soda.

Oleg Volk
January 24, 2004, 05:39 PM
The safety bullet isn't easily distinguishable form a real one when chambered. Also, it seems to be a wadcutter, likely to jam a gun when hand-cycled.

Navy joe
January 24, 2004, 05:43 PM
I got a lot of time reloading and lots of money spent on quality ammo to ensure I don't have a squib. I am not about to intentionally load one or two in any of my guns.

Teach kids about guns and store them in the safe. No gimmicks. The only gunlock I have seen that I like is the one Dillon sells that goes in a 1911 magwell and the lock extends into the chamber. I sometimes use cable locks on long arms through the action. Locks are used for transport interstate and where a safe is not available and others may come across the gun in my absence only.

Glock_PhD
January 24, 2004, 05:46 PM
I can see that being able to be cycled very well. So then we you need a real bullet you're going to be in a lot of trouble.

horge
January 24, 2004, 06:07 PM
I had the same thought:
A snap-cap or an empty chamber does the same thing.

Since a snap cap or this 'safety bullet' can theoretically snag on the ejection port if you try to rack it out under severe stress... an empty chamber seems a better safety tactic.

Training and discipline should allow one to avail of the vital readiness of keeping one in chamber, either "cocked-and-locked" or "safety-off, long DA pull".

JM02

:)

4v50 Gary
January 24, 2004, 06:14 PM
Should buy a box, repackage it without the instructions and give them to the badguys. :evil:

Ryder
January 24, 2004, 06:16 PM
That's interesting. As long as use remains voluntary it could be a useful tool for some. There are people who won't practice constant supervision of their kids, let alone their firearms. With so many other safety hazards to kids it's too bad a way can't be figured out to make parents responsible in all regards. the product has no utility for me. Would the type of people who negligently expose their kids to danger care enough to use these?

My main concern with the use of this product as envisioned is that it could be activated without the owner's knowledge. Kids are not in the habit of tattling on themselves. This is going to necessitate frequently checking the readiness condition of said firearm. A simple glance isn't telling. Negligent discharges do mainly happen during handling. Statistically speaking I'd theorize that more handling is going to mean more negligent discharges. We won't be hearing as many "I thought it was unloaded" statements, they'll be exchanging that for "I thought it had a safety bullet in it".

7.62FullMetalJacket
January 24, 2004, 06:17 PM
:what:

Edited to add :scrutiny:

Andrew Wyatt
January 24, 2004, 06:25 PM
This is an answer in search of a problem, iMHO.

It's no. better than leaving the gun unloaded with an empty magazine beside it.

c_yeager
January 24, 2004, 06:25 PM
Oh this is way "better" than a snap cap. By the looks of it if you drop the hammer on it it will lodge itself in the barrel/chamber and really will, as the rep says, disable the gun. what a "great" idea.

7.62FullMetalJacket
January 24, 2004, 06:36 PM
Should buy a box, repackage it without the instructions and give them to the badguys.

Call then X-Treme Cop Killer Bullets and watch the murder rate drop

WonderNine
January 24, 2004, 06:51 PM
This is an answer in search of a problem

Definately a solution in search of a problem. I don't know how else to put it either.

Is there any mention of the four rules on this guy's site? I didn't see any mention of them.

SoCalGeek
January 24, 2004, 07:00 PM
Bottom of the main page.

7.62FullMetalJacket
January 24, 2004, 07:06 PM
Safety Bullet,

Do not be discouraged. There are some very discerning and opinionated people here. Mucho experience.

This may NOT be your target market.

BTW, have you talked to a lawyer about product liability? :uhoh:

WonderNine
January 24, 2004, 07:08 PM
Bottom of the main page.

OH! Duh!

Thanks.

tc300mag1
January 24, 2004, 07:22 PM
Wow that worse than having a unloaded chamber .. is some oen breaks in at 3Am when you have been out cold for a few hours are you going to rember to cycle the gun i think not

WonderNine
January 24, 2004, 07:22 PM
Mr. Worley, I didn't like the idea behind the safety bullet when I first heard about it on Free Republic and I don't like it now. I believe it's a solution in search of a problem and can cause your firearm to become useless should someone forget that one of your safety bullets is loaded in the pipe.

JShirley
January 24, 2004, 07:33 PM
I really think one could use this device in their weapons in good conscience- just as I will not, in equally good conscience. Save some lives, take some lives- as long as the maker knows, if he sells enough, that *someone* will die with a useless firearm in his hands.

tc300mag1
January 24, 2004, 07:33 PM
Sorry but i will pass dont want to die .. liek said above i really dont think you will rember to cycle you gun at 3amwhen woke up to breaking glass etc etc to clean the dud round.

JamisJockey
January 24, 2004, 07:34 PM
Wouldn't a typical snap-cap do the same job?
Seems like hype to me, when one could just leave the chamber empty for the same effect.
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:

7.62FullMetalJacket
January 24, 2004, 07:36 PM
Better than empty if a child gets it. If said child were to pull the trigger, the barrel is sealed. That is the only saving grace. I guess if we had loaded guns in daycare facilities in the toy box, there would be a market.

Quartus
January 24, 2004, 07:45 PM
If this were loaded in every gun we could end accidental shooting once and for all.

Only if you accept the gun control crowd's propaganda about how firearm accidents happen. Their ignorant rantings about guns is a poor place to start formulating a cure for the "problem".

And calling it a "Safety Bullet" when it is NOT a bullet will not inspire confidence in knowledgeable gun owners.

I'm going to put something in my gun that was designed by someone who doesn't know what a bullet is? :what:


Not.



BTW, may I recommend proofreading your site? After all, it IS commercial web site.

glocksman
January 24, 2004, 07:45 PM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(a) American Children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. The rate of accidental shooting is nearly 12 times higher in the United States than all the other top 25 industrial nations combined.

(d) Unsecured firearms in homes create the potential for accidental shooting and increase the risk of suicide.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.safetybullet.com/pages/2/index.htm
This kind of propaganda in and of itself would be reason enough for me to never purchase anything from you.


American children are at greater risk from firearms accidents than children elsewhere in the industrialized world simply because there are more privately owned firearms in the US than in any other first world nation.

In and of itself, this statement is not propaganda if you understand the context in which it is made and the actual (negligible*) role firearms accidents have in the accidental injury or death of children.

The next statement is partially true.

It's a simple fact that an unsecured firearm does increase the chance for a negligent discharge due to the increased chance of an untrained and/or unauthorized person getting a hold of it.

We can argue about the degree of increase in the chance, but it does increase it because the chance of a firearms accident in a home without a firearm is essentially zero.

Now the suicide part is something I do disagree with because if someone really wants to kill themselves, there are plenty of other means available to do it with other than a gun.

The lack of a firearm may prevent 'impulse' suicides, but I'm not really certain about that, either.


As far as the safety bullet goes, it sounds like something I'd use in a 'car gun' that I'd be worried about getting stolen from my vehicle.

If your gun ever got stolen, wouldn't you just love to read a week later about the goblin who got shot in self-defense while trying to use a 'jammed' gun on a citizen?

It's even better the next day when the police call to tell you that they recovered your gun, but you'll get it back after the coroner's hearing. :D

Other than this limited instance, I see no real use for the safety bullet, but it *is* an interesting concept.

*Firearms aren't even in the top 10 nonfatal injuries chart. More children by far are nonfatally injured from dog bites, cuts, and falls than from firearms. The fatal accidental firearm death rate for children aged 0-18 is 0.20 per 100,000 people (154 deaths in 2001)

Linux&Gun Guy
January 24, 2004, 07:46 PM
The site says "The life you save may be your own" How?

I don't point guns at myself EVER and if a cop or criminal saw me point the gun at them they would not know if it had Safty Bullet in it or not and would react as if it were loaded.

BluesBear
January 24, 2004, 08:03 PM
Interesting toy.

WheelMan
January 24, 2004, 08:16 PM
Did you guys see this?

In a revolver the cylinder revolves. With the hammer back you can spin the cylinder, so the only way to be truly safe is to load a Safety Bullet in every chamber. So that no matter which chamber the hammer falls on it can only hit on a Safety Bullet. The Safety Bullet will instantly disable your firearm by locking itself in the firing chamber and the locking part of the Safety Bullet, the Ram, moves far enough forward so that its outboard end moves into the barrel. Now the cylinder can not revolve until the Safety Bullet is removed. Your gun is safe.

Huh... Every Chamber? Pardon me... but what is the point of that? As I understood it the point of this thing is to leave the weapon "safe but ready to use" how... exactly is having six of these things better than having unloaded chambers? Other you might sucker somebody into buying six of of them for your revolver. Sounds to me like somebody designed this for autos.. realized it didn't work at all in revolvers and decided a stupid answer was better than none.

Oh, and those six pointless "saftey bullets" in your revolver will cost you nearly $80... HA!

JoeWang
January 24, 2004, 08:35 PM
Interesting idea, but I don't know if I have a use for it unless I had children strong enough to rack a slide. For now I don't keep a round chambered, and never leave a loaded firearm unattended.

4v50 Gary
January 24, 2004, 08:52 PM
Guys, it does have a valid application. Remember that collection Jscaledo showed us at http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60689 ?

That collection is not for self defense and I'm sure he has others that serve that purpose. For displays guns not meant to be used, having those dummy bullets in would be a perfect and safe way to deactivate them without either permanently modifying the firearm or compromising one's ability for self defense. They never counted in the self-defense equation to begin with.

It's a valid concept but its application must be used with discretion. Like yourselves, I would not want one in my self defense gun but for wall hangers and display guns, why not?

JamisJockey
January 24, 2004, 09:06 PM
Better than empty if a child gets it
Never leave a loaded firearm unattended where a child can get to it.
:banghead:
All these silly safety devices are just ways to bypass the common sense rules that define Firearms Safety. Seems that one could devolop bad habits with such safety devices.

Oleg:
Tell the inventor I'll use my money for real bullets.
:neener:

BluesBear
January 24, 2004, 09:20 PM
If you need to load EVERY chamber in a revolver to make it safe...

Wouldn't just leaving it unloaded be just as safe and cheaper?


Now before you say, "What if the child finds the ammunition and loads it?"
If a child is able to load live ammo then that same child is also smart enough to UNLOAD the toy ammo.


No offense intended intended here, but even with the atrocious spelling in the web site I can't see why it took FOUR YEARS to develop the safety bullet or am I the only one who see it as just a primer fired wall anchor?

Majic
January 24, 2004, 09:45 PM
For displays guns not meant to be used, having those dummy bullets in would be a perfect and safe way to deactivate them without either permanently modifying the firearm or compromising one's ability for self defense.
Who loads a display gun anyway? If you must load it dummy cartridges would be much cheaper and just as effective.

Quartus
January 24, 2004, 10:05 PM
Hmmm. Are cartridges for dummies the same as dummy cartridges?

P95Carry
January 24, 2004, 10:12 PM
My good manners say Welcome to THR! :)


My critical side I am afraid is not quite so generous!! My criticisms are I hope (intended to be) constructive - not destructive.

1] . The main points have been covered .. we are almost all self defence oriented and the device is NOT IMO in the least pertinent to this at all ... for reasons already well laid out in previous posts. I do not always remember things and to know whether I had a device in place or not would be a miracle - plus if my life is on the line I want instant action from my piece ... NO fiddling in the heat of the (deadly) moment. One thing I do remember without fail tho is rule #1.

2]. Pertaining to the web site .... sorry but .. spelling etc lets it down big time .. plus, it lacks the (IMO) needed professional layout and presentation ... I design sites .... and this could/should be better.

3]. Also site oriented .... I happen to still be on dial up .. by the time the animated image had finished downloading .. I would normally have been long gone!!! Far too great a burden ..... speed of download is everything, even in these broadband days. People have little patience.

4]. I forget when the thread started but I have not yet seen you drop back in to field questions or comments .... asking for people to be emailing you is not enough ... you post here then you should join the discussion .. otherwise I feel your first ever post smacks of little more than an attempt at free advertizing.


Sorry to be pulling things to pieces .... but the commercial world is viscious ... and will crucify the weak and lame ... and thus far I feel ''weak'' is a much more pertinent word than ''strong''.

I still wish you luck however .. without I hope that seeming churlish after what I have written.:)

Joshua Hutchison
January 25, 2004, 12:04 AM
:scrutiny: No comment...........

Quartus
January 25, 2004, 11:43 AM
speed of download is everything, even in these broadband days. People have little patience.


Yup. This isn't Korea - most folks here are still on dial-up. Whiz bang graphics don't impress people who don't see them.


I feel your first ever post smacks of little more than an attempt at free advertizing.



Uh, ya think? :D



Oh, BTW, P95, about that spelling thing.... "advertizing"?


:D


(Yeah, I know, we all commit typos when posting online real time. Doesn't detract from your point about spelling on a commercial web site. But I couldn't let you go without a small dig, could I? :D )

P95Carry
January 25, 2004, 11:49 AM
Oh, BTW, P95, about that spelling thing.... "advertizing"? Touché Sir ...... touché !!! :D

My typing skills are not good .. always seems a finger can attack any one of about three keys each time!!

WonderNine
January 25, 2004, 12:21 PM
Oh, and those six pointless "saftey bullets" in your revolver will cost you nearly $80... HA!

LoL, screw that! I could buy a CZ-52 instead!!!! Hahahahaahaha~!!!

gwalchmai
January 25, 2004, 12:28 PM
More anti-inspired useless feel-good junk that will eventually get someone killed. How long before the Brady bunch starts lobbying for these things to be mandatory? :rolleyes:

Hopefully it will die a quick death in the market.

lapidator
January 25, 2004, 05:20 PM
glocksman,

Read the quote carefully -- in part A) Mr. SafetyBullet is telling us that US children are 12 times more at risk from gun accidents then in the other 25 industrialized nations combined. Really... don't you find this a bit odd considering this : 1. Thousands of children die annually in gun accidents.

False. Gun accidents involving children are actually at record lows, although you wouldn't know it from listening to the mainstream media. In 1997, the last year for which data are available, only 142 children under 15 years of age died in gun accidents, and the total number of gun-related deaths for this age group was 642. More children die each year in accidents involving bikes, space heaters or drownings. The often repeated claim that 12 children per day die from gun violence includes "children" up to 20 years of age, the great majority of whom are young adult males who die in gang-related violence.

http://www.cato.org/dailys/05-13-00.html

Indeed, in 1997 were there only 11 children in the top 25 industrialized nations killed in gun accidents combined?

In part D) Mr. Safetybullet tells us that guns increase suicide rates. Oh? I suppose the same can be said of fire extinguishers causing fires too right?

Personnally, i'd like Mr. Safetybullet to stop doing me favors by designing potentially dangerous "safety devices" and then telling me I need them because "gun are dangerous"... bother!

Lapidator

greg700
January 25, 2004, 05:41 PM
In addition to the concerns listed above, my main worry is that using the safety bullet would allow a 'safety minded' homeowner to become complacent about locking his firearms up when they aren't within reach of it.

I.e. Dad might not bother to put his pistol back in the gun safe before going to work because 'it has a safety bullet' and is therefore accident proof. But his young son starts playing with it and has seen enough movies to rack the slide....

Or, as mentioned above, a young child who gets ahold of the weapon and starts playing ends up pulling the trigger....locking up the gun without the owners knowledge. I guess this is better than the alternative in this situation, but wouldn't a fast access gunsafe be the best solution here?

The idea that a 'safety bullet' will make your gun safe is dangerous. Since it allows your weapon to be ready 'in an instant' simply by cycling the weapon, it obviously isn't fool proof. And it is certainly not as secure as a gunsafe, and if someone can figure out how to get into your gunsafe, then they are going to figure out how to beat the safety bullet.

This will just give people who aren't very gun conscious but who are willing to take basic steps (like a pistol safe) a false sense of security about leaving their weapons laying around within reach of 'unauthorized' users.

glocksman
January 25, 2004, 05:47 PM
My point was that children are at greater risk in the US of being involved in a firearm accident simply because the sheer number of firearms in private hands increases the risk factor.

I'm not agreeing with the '12 times higher' number, however, because I haven't seen the data to support it.

The thing to keep in mind is that while the 154 accidental deaths among children are a tragedy, that number was out of a total of 76,669,159 children.

If you exercise responsible gun storage and education practices, your child has a better chance of being elected Secretary-General of the UN than he does of dying in a firearms accident.


The flaw in the 'safety bullet' concept as far as child safety goes is that the parents who would most likely purchase them are the ones who exercise prudent care with their guns and don't need such a panacea to keep their kids safe.

BluesBear
January 25, 2004, 06:06 PM
As far as the safety bullet goes, it sounds like something I'd use in a 'car gun' that I'd be worried about getting stolen from my vehicle.

If your gun ever got stolen, wouldn't you just love to read a week later about the goblin who got shot in self-defense while trying to use a 'jammed' gun on a citizen?

Do you really think that if some thug steals your car gun that they won't rack the slide to see it it's loaded? :rolleyes: Do you really think they'll just do a press check and soldier on? Even if they were stupid enough to try to fire the safety bullet, do you think that no one would be able to figure out how to unjam it?


The flawed logic supporting the claims of Safety Bullet is that you just rack the slide to make it safe to fire. Why not just leave the chamber empty? Would that not serve the same purpose? Wouldn't just leaving the gun unloaded be just as safe?
Better yet, if you're not in control of your gun, LOCK IT UP! Don't fall for some gimicky false sense of security. :banghead:

A gun is DANGEROUS. It's supposed to be that the way it was designed.
And all of the primer fired wall anchors in the world won't make it safe.

What gets me is that IF the informercials actually start airing there are plenty of morons who will actually buy this thing. :( I only hope it doesn't get someone killed.

Quartus
January 25, 2004, 06:12 PM
If you exercise responsible gun storage and education practices, your child has a better chance of being elected Secretary-General of the UN than he does of dying in a firearms accident.


That's a good way to put it in perspective.


Someone educate me - if all of these folks are so concerned about the safety of children, why are they putting all of this energy into attacking guns? The OUGHT to be attacking things that kill far more kids, like underage drinking!

Or drunk driving.

Or...

(Well, it's a long list.)

glocksman
January 25, 2004, 06:23 PM
Do you really think that if some thug steals your car gun that they won't rack the slide to see it it's loaded?

That's why you have a second one in the magazine. You're assuming that the average break-in artist would know what this doodad was. I'll bet that he'd think it's a new type of 'cop killer teflon' ammo. :D


Do you really think they'll just do a press check and soldier on? Even if they were stupid enough to try to fire the safety bullet, do you think that no one would be able to figure out how to unjam it?

Do you think he can unjam it before the cop or civilian he just tried to shoot ventilates him?

I'm not claiming that the idea is perfect, but it's one more barrier in the way of the criminal. The only time I leave a gun in my car when I'm carrying is when I'm required by law to not carry, such as at a school.

VNgo
January 25, 2004, 07:21 PM
Reminds me of a children's book I once read...a bunch of teenage kid detectives had an old Ford car that they rigged up so it would only start if you turned the ignition *backwards*; if you turned it normally the wheels came off.

Guess what happened?

That's right, they forgot about it and disabled their own car when they tried to chase the bad guy.

BluesBear
January 25, 2004, 09:08 PM
The only time I leave a gun in my car when I'm carrying is when I'm required by law to not carry, such as at a school. Let me get this straight.
You're going to remove your carry weapon. Drop the magazine, clear the chamber, remove the first round from the magazine, insert a safetybullet, chamber a safety bullet and reseat the magazine. Stash it in your car and then go into the school.

Then upon returning to your car you are going to retrieve your carry weapon. Drop the magazine, remove the safetybullet from the chamber, remove the safetybullet from the magazine, insert a live round, chamber a live round, reseat the magazine and reholster.

Does that about cover it? :rolleyes:
I'll bet that he'd think it's a new type of 'cop killer teflon' ammo. Sure he will. :scrutiny: As soon as those infomercials hit the air the Badguy Information Network will be distributing the information before John Public ever gets his delivery from UPS.
Besides, as soon as they jack a round into the chamber and it jams it'll be tossed. There is a reason no one makes a full wadcutter in 9mm or .45. THEY DON'T FEED!

For those who want them, fine. You spend your 19.95 plus shipping for 2 trick bullets.
I'll spend my 19.95 on 25 rounds of Remington Golden Sabre.

Graystar
January 25, 2004, 09:28 PM
The problem I see with this thing is that someone who is thoughtless enough to leave a loaded gun lying around, and thoughtless enough to not teach his kids about guns, is certainly not going to remember to put this round in the gun when he’s done with it.

Makers of safety devices designed to make up for lack of good sense forget that it’s that same good sense that is required to use their products...which renders their products useless.

tc300mag1
January 25, 2004, 10:31 PM
If for example im in a no ccw zone and have to lock it in car .. I slap my trigger lock on i always have one with me incase i run into a wayward gun that needs a home ..

Bigjake
January 25, 2004, 10:41 PM
could make for a fun gag at and IDPA type of thing....

c_yeager
January 26, 2004, 01:52 AM
could make for a fun gag at and IDPA type of thing....

I didnt want to be the first to say it but, i was thinking the same thing. I can see loading it into say round number 3 or 4 in the mag and watching the poor dude work through every clearance drill in the book. It might actually be valuable training in what to do when you have a failure that you simply CANT manage to clear.

Jim Diver
January 26, 2004, 03:23 AM
Would never catch me with one of these things...

I agree with others... I hope it dies in the market place.

On a side note... anyone smell spam?

4570Rick
January 26, 2004, 04:17 AM
Ok...I've read every word and examined every picture on your site, and have come to the following conclusion.

I would not put one in my ready gun, not for all the tea in China!!!
That being said, I am convinced of the following:
1. The safety bullet will not harm a gun.
2. The safety bullet will not allow a second bullet to enter the chamber because, with a primer only charge used to expand a plastic wedge in the chamber, the slide will not cycle.
3. The safety bullet might be useful to those with moderate to large numbers of handguns. As an added security measure, in firearms stored in a safe not your ready gun/guns, it might give a little extra peace of mind.

But in my opinion, guns stored properly in a high quality safe are not a safety risk. My firearms are either loaded or locked up. If someone goes for my ready gun, they’ll have to kill me first, and only a safe cracker will get my weapons out of my safe.

SMLE
January 26, 2004, 05:03 AM
The "safety" bullet is nothing more than a large paving stone on the road to perdition. People who are smart enough to use safety devices in the first place have many, far better IMO, options. The careless ones won't use ANY safety devices anyway. :rolleyes:

Henry Bowman
January 26, 2004, 04:38 PM
If you want to read the patent application (fully explains the device), click here (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=45&f=G&l=50&co1=OR&d=PG01&s1=Worley.IN.&OS=IN/Worley&RS=IN/Worley) . Click on "images" if you want to see the drawings.

Penforhire
January 26, 2004, 07:20 PM
It is a curious invention. To my way of thinking it serves the same niche as those magnetic rings for revolvers. Only the ring does a better job -- only the owner can fire it regardless of its load status. And opening a trigger lock is faster than reloading a revolver.

Definitely can't sell hysteria to the gun crowd. The only types who would go for it wouldn't buy a gun in the first place.

abaddon
January 28, 2005, 11:43 AM
Very creative idea. Something no one else would have thought of. It's just lacking on the practical side. Creativity and practicality are usually opposed to each other anyway - but once in a while a truly creative idea is also practical. Keep trying and you'll hit on one of those.

Jeff

(edited because the first post was too mean.)

jamz
January 28, 2005, 11:55 AM
Woah, back from the dead!1!1!! :eek:

(It should have stayed there ;) )

abaddon
January 28, 2005, 12:02 PM
Oh yeah, January 2004. :rolleyes: You're right, it should have stayed there.

psyopspec
January 28, 2005, 12:03 PM
One thing I have noticed in all the feedback that I have received is that no one has told me of a better safety device. If anyone knows of anything that can be used to make a firearm safer and is better than the Safety Bullet, PLEASE enlighten me.

:neener: The one between the thumbs has served me well since I was a kid.

You tell me what is easier?

In the case of a break-in, what's easier is reaching for the firearm that's kept out of sight, and for my flashlight with the other hand. All my guns are either within arms reach of me or locked away. Any in the former state are kept loaded with one in the chamber. This allows me to put the weapon into action quickly and easily if it's ever needed.

Granted, there are no children in my household.

RyanM
January 28, 2005, 01:33 PM
What amazes me is how many people said "you'd forget to rack the slide," or something to that effect. Isn't that what practice is for? As you train, so shall you fight. You might as well be saying "don't bother with keeping a gun for home defense, you'd forget where the gun is," or "you'd forget to disengage the safety," or even "you'd forget how to use the trigger!"

That said, I'm not buying 'em.

abaddon
January 29, 2005, 12:33 AM
That's not the point. If you forget to flick off the safety then you can still flick it off later. If you carry without a round chambered and you forget to rack the slide most typical malfunction drills would include racking the slide so that would be a natural response for most people. This product, however, completely disables the gun if you forget.

Whenever people bring up the idea of not keeping a round chambered they are never reamed as strongly as this guy was. That's because if those people forget to rack the slide they may still have the option to do it.

Jeff

RyanM
January 29, 2005, 12:55 AM
I'm not so sure of that, though. If someone squeezes the trigger, on an empty chamber or a "safety bullet" (or a live round, for that matter), it's because they have visual contact with an intruder, which they have identified as not being a family member, best friend, etc. By the time they've gone through all that, if the first shot doesn't go bang, I don't think they'd have enough time to rack the slide and try again. Maybe they would, but I wouldn't want to count on it.

It's mainly an argument for keeping a bedside gun in ready to fire condition, of course.

But if someone sleeps very soundly, and keeps their bedside gun in plain view, a "safety bullet" would at the very least prevent them from being shot with their own gun (maybe).

CGofMP
January 29, 2005, 01:02 AM
Okay it is an old thread.. but its the first time *I* have seen it :-)

I came up with a BUNCH of reasons why I wouldn't even have one of these in my home...

Didn't the grunts in Vietnam have a similar item when they first introduced the m16? Check this link if you do not know what I am talking about... (http://www.jouster.com/articles30m1/)

Thanks, but there is already enough potential mechanical failure built into any machine, I do not think I will introduce one more to one I keep onhand to defend my very life. :what:

ZeroX
January 29, 2005, 01:03 AM
Instead of this safety bullet, why couldn't you just leave the chamber unloaded? It's just as good and doesn't make your gun a useless club if you forget. And just teach kids how to respect guns instead of shrouding them in mystique by saying "Never touch my guns, never ever never!".

And, of course, it's useless for any gun you want to carry cocked and locked.

abaddon
January 29, 2005, 02:28 AM
Ryan,

True, there could be big problems if you forget to rack the slide on an empty chamber. But still, at least there's a chance of racking it and getting a shot off. With this product there's no chance if you forget. That was my point.

Bad Words
January 29, 2005, 02:33 AM
I think some New Jersey legislators may be interested in this.

RyanM
January 29, 2005, 02:45 AM
Yes, but my point is that a crook won't be able to shoot you in your sleep, with the safety thing in (one of the main selling points). Me, I use earplugs, and usually sleep like a log. I have no doubt that, on some nights, I could sleep right through a BG dropping the hammer on an empty chamber, then doing a tap-rack-bang drill.

Of course, my solution (once I actually get around to buying a handgun, :o hopefully within about a month) will be to keep the gun loaded, ready to fire, and within reach, but out of sight.

ZeroX
January 29, 2005, 02:53 AM
If a burglar was willing to shoot you in your sleep, wouldn't he probably be carrying his own weapon already?

Though I suppose a particuarly tricky-minded individual would use your own gun against you to lessen the evidence against himself.

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