Pocket Carry. Really?


PDA






Red Cent
September 1, 2011, 08:17 PM
Reading the thread that asked which was better, 22lr or 25auto.

Most of the posts referred to "pocket" handguns.

It occurred to me that pocket handguns are usually very small and 38 or smaller. I am aware of the 357s.

The pocket handgun is generally used at arms length or not much farther. Then it occurred to me that if you are at arms length, how do you draw? I have never felt that i could present the handgun in sufficient time.

On the other hand, if the BG was, say, twenty yards away and coming at you, when would you start shooting(lets say he has a handgun).

Point is, I never (now) pocket carry. I did a little. The gun is a nuisance. Pocket holster or not. I carry a lw Commader, appendix style. Button up or polo style shirt out of pants. I know I can draw.

If you enjoyed reading about "Pocket Carry. Really?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
MikeJackmin
September 1, 2011, 08:24 PM
Jacket pocket.

huntsman
September 1, 2011, 08:42 PM
On the other hand, if the BG was, say, twenty yards away and coming at you, when would you start shooting(lets say he has a handgun).


at what point is your life threatened? Seems 20 yards would be a tough sell, but even if not it sounds like you didn’t have proper confidence in your skills with a pocket gun.

Pict
September 1, 2011, 08:42 PM
J-Frame in a back pocket is really pretty good. Front pocket is harder (for me, anyway) to get the gun out of in any reasonable amount of time. I usually have one OWB on my right hip and another in the left back pocket.

JellyJar
September 1, 2011, 08:50 PM
If you are carrying a small revolver in a coat or jacket pocket you can just shoot through the pocket. Won't hurt the gun but you can't do that with an automatic because it will jam.

ColtPythonElite
September 1, 2011, 08:50 PM
I often carry a Colt Agent in my front pants pocket. I also often stand or walk with my hand in my pocket.....If a stranger walks up to me or I'm going down a dark street or thru a parking lot, my hand is usually close to the gun. I just consider it part of being ready for a situation.

oldfool
September 2, 2011, 07:36 AM
I only pocket carry (occasionally) an LCP 380 in a coat or vest over sized pocket
if you are in a real big hurry you can shoot thru pocket with the DAO auto, at least the 1st shot is pretty much a given, probably several
mostly be aware and if feeling worried, put your hand in that big pocket, and you can get it out as quick as you (me) could draw from an OWB

but I would myself not choose to pocket carry any "primary", I generally do IWB
the LCP is a convenience item, and only for derringer distance for me

PS
if the guy is 20 yards away, and I had only the LCP I would strive to find some cover if possible
at 20 yards and coming fast, I would start shooting ASAP, (which implies a good bit closer than 20 yards at my speed anyway)
but at arms length, if his weapon is already out and yours is not fire ready, you are real likely a dead man, even at your speed, even if you get shots off
one second is a long time at arms length, and if he puts a hole in you before you put a hole in him, it can sure mess up your focus

sarge83
September 2, 2011, 08:16 AM
At 20 yards if you practice, you can hit the target with a jframe

ccsniper
September 2, 2011, 08:31 AM
I carry a DE .44 mag in front left pocket

tpelle
September 2, 2011, 08:34 AM
If it's a Centennial or a shrouded-hammer revolver. A conventional "exposed" hammer will likely hang up.

Of course my .357 Magnum Centennial is likely to set my pocket on fire.

(This was in regards to the post about being able to fire a J-frame revolver from inside a pocket. I messed up on the quote.)

harmon rabb
September 2, 2011, 08:43 AM
i think you're discounting the fact that with some situation awareness, you can hopefully be beginning your draw with the gun already securely in your hand. If I'm pocket carrying and walking through a parking lot at night, my hand will be in my pocket already gripping the gun.

CTPhil
September 2, 2011, 08:46 AM
I carry a small semi auto in a front pants pocket when it's T shirt and jeans weather and yes it does concern me that drawing is awkward. I switch to a jacket pocket in cooler weather. For concealed carry I guess slow draw speed is just a trade off, for me IWB carry is just too restricting.

ATAShooter
September 2, 2011, 08:49 AM
I carry a moneybag at night for a night deposit. I put the money in, then hold my jframe in my hand and zip my hand in the bag. So basically I walk with my hand stuck in the bag. If needed, God forbid, I'll shoot straight thru the bag. " Gimme whats in the bag" is the last thing I wanna hear.

hardluk1
September 2, 2011, 09:24 AM
I carried a regular taurus 85SS for 20 years + in my front pocket. Then a pf-9 for 2 1/2 years and now a kahr cm9. Don't know about being slow. No shirt to untuck, lift up or sweep back. Just pull the handgun. I do sometime carry a cw9 appendix but not often and surely not faster when shirt is tucked. Only need one hand from the pocket.

David E
September 2, 2011, 10:02 AM
Situational awareness is essential, but even the most vigilant among us might be surprised 1-3% of the time. (if you think you're at 100% 100% of the time, you're fooling yourself)

Hand on gun in pocket? Sure, when you can do it.....but how do you draw from a pocket holster quickly when your arms are full as you go about your daily routine? How fast can you draw from a pocket while seated?

Gun in a coat pocket? Have you noticed the hot 100 degree days this summer? If you can wear a coat, you can conceal a gun on your belt.

Back pocket J-Frame? That wouldn't conceal worth a hoot in my back pocket, unless it was in the ultra deep EOTAC back pocket. Good luck getting that out in a hurry.

The deadly threat at 20 yds begins when they point a gun at me or a loved one ( who may be much closer to the badguy than me) making a hit with a J-Frame, no problem. Making a hit with a near sightless DAO .380? Not confident in making an incapacitating hit at all. If I was the only focus of the badguys evil intent, that is one thing Having my wife or daughter being the focus is quite another when I'm 20 yds away with a sightless .380.

Pocket guns have their place, but they have severe limitations as well that should be honestly addressed.

Dogguy
September 2, 2011, 11:52 AM
You're optimistic if you think the vigilant person only gets surprised 1-3% of the time. There are more ways to surprise someone than there are ways to avoid being surprised.

It doesn't matter where you carry the gun, if you have your hands full with an armload of stuff, you'll have to address that problem should the situation come up.

The whole process of drawing a gun to address a threat is more complicated that just drawing a gun and shooting. You have to first recognize the possibility of a threat, ascertain the reality of a threat, compute the level of the threat, determine the response to the threat and, then, start the draw if required. The draw will first require accessing to the weapon. If you carry concealed IWB or OWB under a cover garment, you will need to get to the gun underneath that garment, remove the firearm with a proper grip and, while doing all of this, further determine if the threat warrants you firing the gun.

It's the same process whether you pocket carry or concealed carry under a cover garment.

There are times when pocket carrying simply is too slow for a decent response to a threat. Mainly, when seated. There are times when pocket carrying can be a better alternative. The one scenario mentioned in which pocket carrying is a better option would be the ability to have the gun in you hand while your hand is nonchalantly in your pocket before a threat ever develops.

Nothing works 100% all the time and every situation will be different.

sidheshooter
September 2, 2011, 12:08 PM
I carry a moneybag at night for a night deposit. I put the money in, then hold my jframe in my hand and zip my hand in the bag. So basically I walk with my hand stuck in the bag. If needed, God forbid, I'll shoot straight thru the bag. " Gimme whats in the bag" is the last thing I wanna hear.
I gotta hand it to you: when the bag also happens to contain 5 rounds of cylindered-up 158 gr +P LSWCHP, "Gimmee what's in the bag" is probably the last thing someone wants to ask, too.

:D

Any reason the bag isn't hidden from sight? Too big to fit under your coat?

David E
September 2, 2011, 12:16 PM
You're optimistic if you think the vigilant person only gets surprised 1-3% of the time. There are more ways to surprise someone than there are ways to avoid being surprised.

Yes, I know it was optimistic, but I thought the supermen among us might admit to possibly being surprised 1% of the time.

It doesn't matter where you carry the gun, if you have your hands full with an armload of stuff, you'll have to address that problem should the situation come up.

Yes, it'll have to be addressed, but the point is, drawing a gun from a holster is faster than plunging into your pocket.

The draw will first require accessing to the weapon. If you carry concealed IWB or OWB under a cover garment, you will need to get to the gun underneath that garment, remove the firearm with a proper grip and, while doing all of this, further determine if the threat warrants you firing the gun.

It's the same process whether you pocket carry or concealed carry under a cover garment.

Pocket carry does not allow as fast or as sure a draw as a belt mounted holster does, so it is not "the same."

There are times when pocket carrying can be a better alternative. The one scenario mentioned in which pocket carrying is a better option would be the ability to have the gun in you hand while your hand is nonchalantly in your pocket before a threat ever develops.

Hard to do the majority of the time, but an option when a "possible" threat is identified. This is a great technique to use with your backup gun.

Have the proponents of pocket carry ever actually timed their draw with a shot timer? That should prove interesting. I might be able to do just that tomorrow.

Guillermo
September 2, 2011, 12:29 PM
Pocket guns have their place, but they have severe limitations as well that should be honestly addressed

Well said.

Personally I do not know how people carry in pants pockets. I would print horribly when walking.

Cargo or jacket pocket I can pull off.

CTPhil
September 2, 2011, 12:39 PM
Personally I do not know how people carry in pants pockets. I would print horribly when walking.
If you carry a small semi auto or derringer in a simple sleeve type holster no one can tell you're carrying no matter what activity you're engaged in.

oldfool
September 2, 2011, 12:58 PM
"This is a great technique to use with your backup gun."
"Cargo or jacket pocket I can pull off."

yup, advantage old redneck :)

HOT summertime down here, it is still easy and not too hot to wear a big loose mesh camo turkey vest over a light tee shirt when on a casual stroll around town, and it won't even get you a 2nd glance in down south Georgia, shucks, it's always in fashion. You can even wear a blaze orange tee shirt under, if so inclined. Big pockets in those things. You can camo an IWB without even trying, plus have a 7-shot derringer in one hand in a front vest pocket at the same time, and nobody will notice. Don't even matter which popular camo pattern you favor, RealTree or whatever.

True, the IWB is usually under a tee shirt under the vest, but that's why my tee shirt size is XL, while I wear one XXL.
Sort of better matches always fashionable decor of an extra large size camo vest, you know.

I keep mine on a door hook (camo vest that is) to throw on when I walk out the door.
and I don't even turkey hunt ;)

tight jeans ain't comfy nohow for a fat old guy, shorts will do, even shorts without many pockets
(it ain't the size of the dawg.. er, pocket.. in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the pocket, you know)

PS
I have also been known to park a S&W snubbie in my right rear hip pocket, when the dawgs sound like there might be something more exciting than ol' possum out there in the back yard, just to go have a look... but do I have the other half of my SWAT Team (milady) on standby backup, with a 357 carbine in hand nearby
(teamwork, there is no substitute)

Guillermo
September 2, 2011, 01:13 PM
If you carry a small semi auto or derringer in a simple sleeve type holster no one can tell you're carrying no matter what activity you're engaged in.

I have tried it with a NAA Guardian and a Kahr PM9.

advantage redneck

Yep...and self employed.
My idea of dressing up is an untucked shirt over slacks. Because of that I carry OWB.

I have tried, repeatedly, pocket carry. I gave up.
If I have to tuck I Kangaroo.

oldfool
September 2, 2011, 01:38 PM
sadly me not self employed
and they frown mightily on guns on-site
(but at least they don't ask about what rides with me in truck)

Weekends and off work days (like today) though, casual day every day
Even work days, I do get to wear my shirt untucked and "could" get away with it, but having chalked up 32 years there as of yesterday, ain't willing to press my luck at this late date
some risks you just are obliged to accept in the interests of other important stuff

knotquiteawake
September 2, 2011, 01:56 PM
Its takes me all of about 2 seconds or less to pull my Seecamp out of my pocket in the shorts I am wearing right now, some pairs of pants are a little bit tighter so it takes me about 3-4 seconds tops...

I am not sure I understand what the hangup about pocket carry is here, sure it is slower than an OWB holster (what apart from OWB cross draw or already having the gun in your hand would be faster?).

What about IWB with a tucked in shirt (like those "supertuck" holsters)? I would rather pocket carry, seems like pulling a gun out of my pocket is faster than digging a gun out of a tucked in shirt. Advantage of pocket is I can already have my hand on the gun before I have to commit to pulling it out.

I only carry the seecamp, and I'll either pocket carry or IWB if my shirt/pants work better for that (pockets too tight = IWB time but I much prefer the pocket). All I ever wanted get a gut gun/Get off me gun, for that role it fits perfectly and pocket carry works perfectly for it as well.

Also, when someone pocket carries I would hope they are using a pocket holster, if they were then first there would be no printing issue, and second the gun would be lined up to easy grab and pull out.

knotquiteawake
September 2, 2011, 02:06 PM
Also as far as drawing when the attacker is right there, 1-2feet distant, I would move my strong side away from the attacker, put hand in pocket (if it wasn't already there), draw, point at gut and pull trigger. This doesn't seem any more complicated than drawing from OWB or IWB.

Caveat, the bigger the gun the harder pocket carry is. Thats why I picked the smallest one I could find.

oldfool
September 2, 2011, 02:15 PM
"all of about 2 seconds or less to pull my Seecamp out of my pocket"

Some would argue that two seconds is an end of lifetime long eternity, and they would be right under some circumstances, I won't argue with that

But outside of competition, professional law enforcement and such, extreme few can really pull off the true fast draw with anything less than unimpeded OWB carry.

CCW is always a matter of compromise, you just have to choose your own, according to your own threat assessment and the lifestyle you choose to live. There are no wrong choices when it comes to that, win, lose, or draw.

PS
but if the attacker is 1-2 feet distant with weapon in hand, a hole in your side is a hole in your side, be it strong side or weak side
fast draw or slow draw, you won't walk away, you will be carried away in some condition or other
a 6 inch blade in between your ribs can put a real serious dent in your day, it can get real "complicated"
attacker without a weapon, that's a real tough shooting call to make, right or wrong, you will be 2nd guessed of course

David E
September 2, 2011, 02:17 PM
Show us a pic of a viable sleeve holster, please.

David E
September 2, 2011, 02:29 PM
"about" two seconds implies a guess.

The advantage to a tuckable or IWB is that one can carry a real gun/caliber. You produce a tiny, sightless .32, I produce a .45

I personally don't favor tuckables except for very limited applications. I do favor a good IWB that carries a .45 compact Kimber.

A gun in the pocket, even a .32, beats the hell out of the .44 magnum at home.

okc-zee
September 2, 2011, 02:32 PM
I carry an S&W 640 in my front pocket in a ross pocket guard...no probs yet...

mavracer
September 2, 2011, 02:41 PM
Yes, it'll have to be addressed, but the point is, drawing a gun from a holster is faster than plunging into your pocket.
really try it with a timer and be honest. pocket vs. IWB with a cover garment make sure you try it one handed too.;)
Personally I do not know how people carry in pants pockets. I would print horribly when walking.
I came to the realization a long time ago nobody is checking out the bulge in my pocket.:o

CTPhil
September 2, 2011, 02:43 PM
Show us a pic of a viable sleeve holster, please.
Here's mine, it's the same both sides for right or left carry.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/plang2/P1020629docsmall.jpg

Mike1234567
September 2, 2011, 02:45 PM
really try it with a timer and be honest. pocket vs. IWB with a cover garment make sure you try it one handed too.;)

I came to the realization a long time ago nobody is checking out the bulge in my pocket.:o

Yeah me neither, brother. Oh the horrors of growing old.

knotquiteawake
September 2, 2011, 03:02 PM
"about" two seconds implies a guess.

The advantage to a tuckable or IWB is that one can carry a real gun/caliber. You produce a tiny, sightless .32, I produce a .45

I personally don't favor tuckables except for very limited applications. I do favor a good IWB that carries a .45 compact Kimber.

A gun in the pocket, even a .32, beats the hell out of the .44 magnum at home.
I don't have anyone with a stopwatch around me right now, but counting out loud I get just to the end of OneThousand One and am just starting to say OneThousand Two by the time the pistol has cleared my pocket and is pointed dead ahead.

Also, at one or two feet I supposed that going for the gun might not even be viable, more likely its going to be a scuffle and the first person to get some distance will have the advantage.

If I owned a 9mm or a .45 It would likely stay at home on the dresser. Compromise is the name of the game. The only time I could see myself with something bigger available to me outside of the home is if I managed to get a hold of another .38 special snubby to put in the center console of the car. But I digress... the real discussion here is pocket carry and my free internet opinion on it is that its workin' out A-Ok for me so far but thats because I have a very small gun. If I had a bigger gun it would be IWB/OWB of some kind.

Red Cent
September 2, 2011, 03:09 PM
A while ago, I used to shoot with some LEOs. Do you remember the B29 Speed Rock?

Face to face (like 18 inches), bring the weakhand up and with full weakhand, hit the target with a hard pushing blow while stepping back and drawing your weapon. Shoot four times. From the hip.
Starting with both hands by your side, I would be surprised if a true pocket carry could do it in 3 seconds.

Pocket carry people should try this.

I watched a top shooter show us various ways of carry. One was in cargo pants pocket.
I still won't pocket carry.

We all know that if it works for you........... No criticism of the pocket people.

David E
September 2, 2011, 03:15 PM
really try it with a timer and be honest. pocket vs. IWB with a cover garment make sure you try it one handed too.;)

Of course I'll be honest about it. Anything less proves/confirms nothing.

And it doesn't really matter how fast you can get the gun out, it matters how fast you can get a hit on target.

I'm already expecting the "well, that's just how fast YOU can do it, I'm faster than you with that mode of carry (but don't want to prove it.....) so you didn't prove anything!"

Warp
September 2, 2011, 03:25 PM
The pocket handgun is generally used at arms length or not much farther. Then it occurred to me that if you are at arms length, how do you draw?

IMO the people who say they are used at arms length are simply trying to convince themselves that the small, weak, hard to shoot pocket gun they rarely train with is a good choice.

How the hell can anybody honestly say they can predict that they will have the option of defending themselves with lethal force within such a short range?

Red Cent
September 2, 2011, 03:30 PM
"CQB Solutions

We know that urban gunfights are short duration, high intensity events characterized by sudden violence at close range. The actual distances, however, might astound many whose total CQB training program consists of "hammers" at seven yards. You see, over 85% of these fights actually occur much closer -- like within 10 feet! Many of them, in fact, take place well within arm's length.
Rather than being "unthinkable", as one popular writer claims, such truly close quarters are quite the norm. The dynamics involved in this type of fight are no different than those for any other type of close quarters combat. As I tell my CQB students, at such a close interval, even a blind man with a rusty homemade zip gun can get lucky. "

http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18394

He addresses the "Speed Rock" without the "push off balance" move.

David E
September 2, 2011, 03:52 PM
No one doubts some, maybe many, violent encounters take place within arms reach.

But some, maybe many, pocket-pistol advocates think they all do.

Warp
September 2, 2011, 03:57 PM
No one doubts some, maybe many, violent encounters take place within arms reach.

But some, maybe many, pocket-pistol advocates think they all do.


My 642 is good far beyond arms reach. Granted I generally carry a larger duty caliber auto, but still

Guillermo
September 2, 2011, 04:07 PM
While I am an advocate of practicing drawing (getting a proper grip is my Achilles Heel), most of us civilians are likely to have a little warning.

The six in the D Frame and a speed strip are most properly more than enough.

mavracer
September 2, 2011, 04:12 PM
Face to face (like 18 inches), bring the weakhand up and with full weakhand, hit the target with a hard pushing blow while stepping back and drawing your weapon. Shoot four times. From the hip.
Starting with both hands by your side, I would be surprised if a true pocket carry could do it in 3 seconds.
To be quite honest I'd be suprised if half the CCWers I know could do it in 5 seconds from a IPSC rig.
Practice will make a big difference. If you practice IWB and don't practice from the pocket of course you'll be faster IWB than from the pocket. I carry both IWB and Pocket and practice both ways and I'll be quite honest I'll average faster times from IWB than from my pocket if both hands are free and out of the pocket but It's close enough though that times over lap. However if I start with my hand in my pocket it's much faster rivaling my best times from a IPSC rig and if I try to draw from a IWB under a cover garment it slows down and becomes eratic as it can be a chalange to get my T-shirt out of the way.

Guillermo
September 2, 2011, 05:08 PM
it can be a chalange to get my T-shirt out of the way.

That is always the thing that slows my draw down the most.

David E
September 2, 2011, 05:26 PM
There is a draw technique I've developed that solves that very issue.

mavracer
September 2, 2011, 05:28 PM
There is a draw technique I've developed that solves that very issue.
by all means share?

JohnhenrySTL
September 2, 2011, 05:39 PM
I carry a S&W 442. I have other combat style pistols, however I would rarely actually carry them. The work and change in lifestyle required for me to carry my larger higher capacity pistols seemed like a strange trade off.I would grab it under unique circumstances but rarely carried it on a day to day basis. I recently picked up my 442, I believe it is the perfect carry sidearm for my life. I have .38's. If I knew somebody was to be shooting at me I would rather have 13 .40s, or better yet 30 .308s. However, I believe 5 .38s would handle any problem I am likely to come across. When I do have a need to go to an undesired place late at night, I will be sure to grab my sig and cz.

I keep my 442 in my pocket, I can grab it and have it ready to go in roughly a tenth of a secound longer than I could grab a full size hand gun from a side holster. It has also been very challenging and fun learning to master the tiny little DOA gun. The point is I can shoot it consistantly and good enough for any problem I believe I may encounter.

camsdaddy
September 2, 2011, 05:53 PM
Ive been known to carry appendix and pocket and feel confident in both. I also live in South Ga. I would say that if I see someone wearing a "hunting or photographers vest" I first look for a former president. I figure if you are gonna wear a vest you might as well open carry. To each his own. This time of year more than a t shirt and shorts is unbearable some days. I can carry a 642, CM9 or sometimes a 26 in a pocket of most shorts. I find I walk with hands in pocket most the time cant get much closer to the draw

David E
September 2, 2011, 06:12 PM
At the range tomorrow, I'm going to set up an IPSC target at 5 feet, to split the difference between ten feet and engaged hand to hand.

I'll do hands at sides, wrists above shoulders, while stepping left and right, hand on gun and a few other things.

The belt mounted gun will be done similarly.

Anyone have any other ideas?

Guillermo
September 2, 2011, 07:14 PM
There is a draw technique I've developed that solves that very issue

give it up David!!

hardluk1
September 2, 2011, 07:27 PM
I have a IWB holster and use it under certain conditions. Travel or dressing up, but it is not faster or as fast unless i am also useing both hands and if tucked in ,,for get it. I need both hands to help get to it affectivly. Now it may depend on the size of the handgun and the pocket cut as to what works best or at all for you. I am a work jean or columbia pants guy .

I also don't carry the micro sized pistol some use as pocket guns. For me they can get lost even in a holster in my pockets. On the larger end for my pockets I can carry a cw9 kahr Or pf9 KT but my everday carry is a cm9. The grips on all set right near the top of the pocket and very easy with the right holster to access and clear along with a 2" j frame sized revolver with a 3 finger grip. Only one hand if needed and I can clear in a normal set down setting like in a restraunt pulling it out to show the grip with 2 fingers and then take a full grip one handed. Now if a carried something larger it would then be IWB only. In the car I will clear the grip area from my pocket or if travel'n a cheapy iwb at an appendix position or on the belt with something over it, remember concealed. I figure if i ever need my handgun I also may only have one hand to do it with while useing the other to fend someone off for just moment.

After 24 year i don't need someone telling me to change it don't work.

David E
September 2, 2011, 07:38 PM
Who is telling you to change or that it doesn't work?

Guillermo
September 2, 2011, 07:51 PM
I figure if i ever need my handgun

This indicates that during those 24 years you have not had to use your weapon, let alone draw under pressure.

If this is a correct assumption...it is not that what you are doing is working...it is that it is untried and thus unproven.

BTW...this is not a slam. I have been robbed twice at gun point. My gun was within arms reach...and I couldn't get to it. And when I did get my hand on it, my performance was not great...to say the least. (I practice a lot more these days)

I hope none of us ever have need for our preparation.

Shanghai Dan
September 2, 2011, 08:11 PM
I use a Pocket Holster (http://www.pocketholsters.com/) for my Kel-Tec P32. It's in my right-rear pocket where a wallet normally would be. If I need to draw, it simply looks like I'm reaching for my wallet. Convenient, completely normal to reach for if I'm being robbed, and in a location that no one even pays attention to a "bump" in that pocket.

rfwobbly
September 2, 2011, 08:31 PM
I just picked up a 638 with an Uncle Mike's pocket holster. With somewhat loose fitting casual shorts, the draw from the pocket is more convenient, easier and faster than my 3/4 auto in the waist band. The holster stiffens the pocket so that the pull is clean and fast. And there's never printing with the looser casual dress. Worst case by far is bluejeans.

David E
September 2, 2011, 08:44 PM
I did a few practice draws from the pocket and the Uncle Mikes kept coming out with the gun. :eek:

I'll use a KyTac Pocket-Lockit tomorrow.

gilgsn
September 2, 2011, 08:51 PM
What people forget is that we are talking about survival from a violent encounter, and being able to draw and fire your gun, whatever it is, is not the whole story. At such short distances, you need to know how to retain that gun, and also put the aggressor down if your gun jams or you don't have time to get it out. The survival mindset and training shouldn't be limited to drawing and shooting. It should be an all encompassing system, including physical training, movement, escape, martial arts, even a bit of psychology. If you weigh 400Lbs and can't move, your gun might not be of much use to you. If you can't deliver or take a punch, where does that leave you? Sometimes the first sign of trouble might be when you hit the ground with a big guy on top of you and a broken jaw or a knife in your back.. How do you move to draw your gun then? Carrying a gun without a system is like eating healthy but smoking a pack a day..

Rexster
September 2, 2011, 09:05 PM
I have long been recommending against pocket carry of one's only or primary weapon. I tried it, for a while, and found that, during any activity except standing calmly, getting a hand into a pocket, and onto the weapon, and getting the weapon clear of the pocket, can be problematic. When trouble happens, it is a very human action to immediately bend at the hips, which affects front and hip pockets.

Some cargo pants' pockets are not so bad in this regard, but the advantage is still usually with a holster at waist level. Moreover, heavy weight in most most cargo pants can result in its own set of problems.

I do still carry in a pocket much of the time, especially in certain weather conditions, but it is almost always a secondary weapon. My primary rides at 0300. Nothing wrong with the appendix position, or front cross-draw, but the only feasible place, as well as the mandated carry method, of my duty pistol is on the "strong" side hip. I like consistency, so 0300 it is. My primary carry position may migrate toward appendix after I retire.

mark1616
September 2, 2011, 09:21 PM
I can draw my S&W snubbie from my pocket holster faster than I can draw my full size Ruger or my compact Kahr from their IWB holsters.

I have never been in an SD situation involving firearms, but I practice so that I can be as confident and proficient as possible with each of my chosen carry tools. Otherwise I would not carry them.

asm19
September 2, 2011, 10:25 PM
I have tried repeatedly to carry IWB; I just can't do it without proclaiming to the world "I have a gun!" I am 5'11" 190lbs and unless I wear a coat and big baggy pants, the IWB option is gone, even with the LCP or LCR. Seems to me that most proponents of this carry style are bigger guys, those with more girth around the mid section. It just doesn't work for us skinny guys.

For me, the pocket or ankle carry is the only option to effectively conceal a handgun. And since my wife took my LCP, my carry method of choice is the NAA black widow in my front pocket. True, I will not be able to get it out very quickly but better to have a 22 magnum in my pocket than the XDM at home in the safe.

Warp
September 2, 2011, 10:35 PM
I have tried repeatedly to carry IWB; I just can't do it without proclaiming to the world "I have a gun!" I am 5'11" 190lbs and unless I wear a coat and big baggy pants, the IWB option is gone, even with the LCP or LCR. Seems to me that most proponents of this carry style are bigger guys, those with more girth around the mid section. It just doesn't work for us skinny guys.

For me, the pocket or ankle carry is the only option to effectively conceal a handgun. And since my wife took my LCP, my carry method of choice is the NAA black widow in my front pocket. True, I will not be able to get it out very quickly but better to have a 22 magnum in my pocket than the XDM at home in the safe.

When I started carrying daily it was a Glock 26 IWB. I was 6'00" and 170 lbs

camsdaddy
September 2, 2011, 10:53 PM
I agree when I began carrying my Glock 26 AIWB I weighed 135 lbs I am 5' 7" and now weigh about 150 ish. I havent noticed it being easier with or without the weight. If you think a LCP screams you have a gun trust me relax. People are so preoccupied with themselves and their phones they arent paying you any attention. I rarely wear much more than a T shirt that fits and a pair of shorts or a pair of jeans there is no visible sign.

MedWheeler
September 2, 2011, 11:42 PM
Gilgsn writes:

What people forget is that we are talking about survival from a violent encounter, and being able to draw and fire your gun, whatever it is, is not the whole story. At such short distances, you need to know how to retain that gun, and also put the aggressor down if your gun jams or you don't have time to get it out. The survival mindset and training shouldn't be limited to drawing and shooting. It should be an all encompassing system, including physical training, movement, escape, martial arts, even a bit of psychology. If you weigh 400Lbs and can't move, your gun might not be of much use to you. If you can't deliver or take a punch, where does that leave you? Sometimes the first sign of trouble might be when you hit the ground with a big guy on top of you and a broken jaw or a knife in your back.. How do you move to draw your gun then? Carrying a gun without a system is like eating healthy but smoking a pack a day..

Good points, yes, but this is a "pocket carry" thread.

27hand
September 2, 2011, 11:49 PM
Whiile a bit larger than most "pocket guns", the Kahr P9 Covert is a nice little single stack 9mm. What I like about the gun is that it has a 3 1/2" bbl ( same as a P9 or CW9) but the grip length of a PM9

It does fit in a Docker style pants pocket and draws pretty easily without pulling the Kytac Pockit Lockit with the pistol.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l103/poofy27/Firearm%20pics/100_0272.jpg

Remember.

"It will happen when you least expect it"
"It will be over in seconds"
" if you don't know what to do, you won't do it"

Quotes from a carbine instructor.

That pistol sometimes rides in a Mitch Rosen IWB "clipper" or a DeSantis Apache ankle rig for deeper concealment. With enough practice, the presentation is not too shabby out of the ankle rig but it certainly is, at best, a marginal carry option and won't do anything for you at arms length.
I honestly think most of us will not ever be able to present when confronted at arms length unless you have the ability to "make distance" before drawing.

Then again, I'm just an old guy that knows very little on the subject.

hardluk1
September 3, 2011, 07:59 AM
David E It was a in-general remark saying that a pocket pistol can not be drawn an fired quickly .

Red cent Cargo pockets are more like wearing some belt bag. Extra steps to open and to then go for a pistol. Not the same as an ole pair of jeans or casual pants. + most all the para-mil/carry clothing out there you see on most instructor trainer types on tv look out of place in the public for the most part. Unless it's hunting season.

Good that we all have choices of what we carry and how to do it. If you prefer to carry IWB, OWB or pocket thats each persons choice. Over time each will find what works best for them.

harmon rabb
September 3, 2011, 01:45 PM
I have tried repeatedly to carry IWB; I just can't do it without proclaiming to the world "I have a gun!" I am 5'11" 190lbs and unless I wear a coat and big baggy pants, the IWB option is gone, even with the LCP or LCR. Seems to me that most proponents of this carry style are bigger guys, those with more girth around the mid section. It just doesn't work for us skinny guys.

For me, the pocket or ankle carry is the only option to effectively conceal a handgun. And since my wife took my LCP, my carry method of choice is the NAA black widow in my front pocket. True, I will not be able to get it out very quickly but better to have a 22 magnum in my pocket than the XDM at home in the safe.
What the heck are you wearing that a LCP prints on you? Spandex?

mdauben
September 4, 2011, 10:06 AM
Yes, it'll have to be addressed, but the point is, drawing a gun from a holster is faster than plunging into your pocket.
I don't think anyone can argue that drawing a gun from an exposed holster is faster than drawing one from a pocket. If you have an IWB holster with a shirt tucked over it, I would argue that the speed may not be very different.

IMO, pocket carry is a compromise but if the choice is between pocket carrying and not carrying at all, the choice is clear. Sometimes you simply can't, or don't want, to modify your dress to conceal a belt holster (IWB or OWB) and pocket carry is the only option.

Personally I do not know how people carry in pants pockets. I would print horribly when walking.
Its like CC in general, you may have to make changes in your wardrobe. For example, pocket carry in extremely tight fitting jeans just isn't going to work. Looser fitting jeans, dockers or cargo pants on the other hand is no problem. A pocket holster will often also help break up the outline of the gun even if it does still "print" (I would never pocket carry w/o a pocket holster, anyway, as it will also cover the trigger for safety and keep the gun properly oriented in your pocket).

David E
September 4, 2011, 11:51 AM
I don't think anyone can argue that drawing a gun from an exposed holster is faster than drawing one from a pocket. If you have an IWB holster with a shirt tucked over it, I would argue that the speed may not be very different.

No one is comparing a draw from an exposed holster to a pocket draw. Have you actually compared a concealment draw to the pocket draw? I have. Setting up the pocket draw as best I could (pocket bloused outward, which isn't good for concealment, even in a pocket) I averaged 1.44. This was using a S&W 642 from a KyTac Pocket-Lockit

My draw from a concealed belt holster averaged 1.02. This was using a full size 1911 from a KyTac Counter Attack rig.

IMO, pocket carry is a compromise but if the choice is between pocket carrying and not carrying at all, the choice is clear.

No argument from me!

Sometimes you simply can't, or don't want to modify your dress to conceal a belt holster (IWB or OWB) and pocket carry is the only option.

Citing laziness on your part as a valid reason for pocket carry won't fly with me, but I'd rather you have a gun with you, any gun, than none at all.

oldfool
September 4, 2011, 12:01 PM
"a few practice draws from the pocket and the Uncle Mikes kept coming out with the gun."
I think that happens a lot more often than acknowledged. Choosing just the right pocket holster for just the right pocket might be tougher than finding just the right IWB or OWB.

"have tried repeatedly to carry IWB; I just can't do it without proclaiming to the world "I have a gun!" I am 5'11" 190lbs"
Just get your legs shortened by 2" and eat more donuts; works for me !
5' 9" and 200#, it's all about where the overhang hangs, you know

Seriously, though, I don't see how IWB works so well for so many with double stacks or snubbies. Single stack, no camouflage required, any real loose t-shirt will do me.

Jaymo
September 4, 2011, 12:43 PM
My KelTec .380 has the pocket clip installed. It doesn't print. The pocket clip is all that shows, and isn't out of the ordinary since so many carry folding knives that way.
No holster to come out with the gun. I don't even have to leave my shirt untucked when carrying it.
I either carry it in addition to another auto or revolver, or I carry it alone when it's too blamed hot to wear enough clothing to conceal anything bigger.

CTPhil
September 4, 2011, 01:03 PM
Citing laziness on your part as a valid reason for pocket carry won't fly with me, but I'd rather you have a gun with you, any gun, than none at all.
There are lots of reasons people might not want to change their wardrobe. Laziness? Really?

oldfool
September 4, 2011, 01:04 PM
the KelTec clippy fits the LCP as well, but I just never found it all that handy on mine, whether clipped IWB, belt, or pocket.. just never have gotten around to taking it back off
(best use a little lock-tite on that thru bolt though, they will loosen off on round count if you don't)

PS
now don't be biting on the "laziness" bait, folks
living off welfare on purpose when you don't have to is lazy
legally carrying what you want how you want is a lifestyle choice ,yours and yours alone, you are not obliged to justify it to anyone

Jaymo
September 4, 2011, 01:15 PM
Amen, oldfool. It's too damned hot here in GA to go out dressed for CC with most guns in the summer.

Warp
September 4, 2011, 01:19 PM
Amen, oldfool. It's too damned hot here in GA to go out dressed for CC with most guns in the summer

It's too hot for shorts and a T-shirt?

oldfool
September 4, 2011, 02:23 PM
Jaymo was referring to CCW with such as a Desert Eagle 50AE
(obviously not for them that are too lazy to dress up for the occasion vs. wearing shorts & T-shirt, that's all)

Guillermo
September 4, 2011, 02:43 PM
It's too hot for shorts and a T-shirt?

I am carrying comfortably wearing shorts and a t shirt right now

oldfool
September 4, 2011, 02:53 PM
me too... but there are limits to what my overhang will hang over
very much about personal fit, that's all.. a lot of people skinnier than me can carry stuff under that T-shirt that just doesn't work for me
(good thing they make so many different guns, something for everybody)

too bad that thongs and wet t-shirts ain't fashionable for old fat guys, though :what:
(your CCW piece ain't the only thing best left unseen though !)

Guillermo
September 4, 2011, 03:13 PM
too bad that thongs and wet t-shirts ain't fashionable for old fat guys, though

personally I am quite happy that such is not acceptable or fashionable in most places!!!

I am by no means skinny...but heading to Academy with a 4 inch diamondback on my hip...zero problemo

Mike1234567
September 4, 2011, 03:20 PM
too bad that thongs and wet t-shirts ain't fashionable for old fat guys, though

:uhoh:

:scrutiny:

:(

:scrutiny:

:barf:...:barf:...:barf:...:barf:...:barf:...:barf:...:barf:

Guillermo
September 4, 2011, 03:25 PM
too bad that thongs and wet t-shirts ain't fashionable for old fat guys

last month I spent a week on Mustang Island. I wish you had given some of those people this important fashion tip.

At least I could tell who was carrying

dprice3844444
September 4, 2011, 03:29 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxtv1KQimis holster,5.11 tactical makes shirts with built in holsters,plus vests.pants with clip pouches built in.nrastore.org has a bunch of clothing for gun concealment

IMTHDUKE
September 4, 2011, 03:33 PM
I carry a moneybag at night for a night deposit. I put the money in, then hold my jframe in my hand and zip my hand in the bag. So basically I walk with my hand stuck in the bag. If needed, God forbid, I'll shoot straight thru the bag. " Gimme whats in the bag" is the last thing I wanna hear.


Then I guess you just "blow your wad".:)

sm
September 4, 2011, 03:39 PM
Pocket carry is not a new thing.

One of the things we have to remember, no matter the make, model, action type, caliber, or type of ammunition used, is being able to access a firearm, and to employ it quickly and effectively.

Having a hand on a firearm, when in a pocket, still concealed, affords one some advantages.

bgr2014
September 4, 2011, 04:03 PM
Just timed myself with my S&W 642 im 73yrs.old and it took 2.5 seconds. As far as being too close, think I'd raise my leg and shoot through pants. Maybe burn leg or set pants on fire, but better than taking a slug. I can see me dancing around with my pants on fire, guess I'll have to carry a fire extinguisher in my back pocket. LOL

Mike1234567
September 4, 2011, 04:10 PM
^^^ Or you might just shoot yourself in the leg.;)

David E
September 4, 2011, 04:49 PM
There are lots of reasons people might not want to change their wardrobe. Laziness? Really?

Yes, really. When he stated "don't want to modify your dress" to accommodate the gun, that's lazy. that means he could do so if he simply wanted to.

How hard is it to wear an untucked shirt? Or to utilize a tuckable holster that carries a better gun than you can put in your pocket?

CTPhil
September 4, 2011, 05:17 PM
I don't want to modify my dress and I'm not lazy. I wear what works best for the work that I do. I've always tucked in shirts with tails and will continue to, for safety and I don't feel properly dressed in public with an untucked shirt. Waistband holsters simply don't work with my body.

It's a good point of discussion, though, do we work everything we do around our carry? Or the other way around?

hardluk1
September 4, 2011, 08:24 PM
david e are you drawing concealed with one hand? Do you realize that the .32 difference in time is 3 quick blinks of an eye. Thats not much for someone that is not well practiced at pocket carry. Now think about how much quicker it might be for some of use that have years of carry'n this way and do it with only one hand.

Better still let use carry the way we want and you can do the same with out telling us how lazy we are in your eyes.

Red Cent
September 4, 2011, 08:30 PM
"It's a good point of discussion, though, do we work everything we do around our carry? Or the other way around? "

Great question.

Do we carry with how we dress or do we carry for efficiency? Or do we carry how we think we can be effective?

You have to really think out "why do I carry".

The road I take: I cannot justify a pocket gun. I need the speed of a holster and I dress accordingly.

sm
September 4, 2011, 08:43 PM
In anything, be it guns, ammo or carry.

I was born in the mid '50's and had some darn interesting Mentors & Elders that had been there and done that, and not just in the USA, also abroad.

Tueller drill: Well the Tueller incident had not yet happened when I was mentored that a perp can reach you in about 1.5 seconds from 7 yard/21 feet.

While we did not do stopwatches that much, we did have "charging targets" that could reach one in 1.5 seconds. We did these drills with handgun, rifle and shotgun by the way.

We also did one-on-one drills and used water pistols when I was younger, and later some other things.

I am 56 years old now, but if memory serves I was about 50 years old the last time I was timed.

Model 1911 from IWB .9 seconds from "beep" to first shot on target.
Model 442 : .7 seconds.
Kel Tec P11 .8 seconds.

Now was mentored it was not cheating if it worked, instead ingenuity. So I have removed a 1911, Model 10, 042, and what not from hip and put into a jacket pocket, or even blazer pocket.

If memory serves I was able to use a 642 and in .5 seconds shoot the threat target from my blue blazer. Yes, I shot thru the pocket.
I think it was around .7 when I did it with a Colt Combat Commander, from a windbreaker pocket.

Oh both of these were done weak handed. Something else I was mentored on as well.

EmGeeGeorge
September 4, 2011, 08:43 PM
I practice drawing my j-frame from my pocket 500-1000 times a day. I use snap caps to dry fire it after the draw at blown-up photos of Usama Bin Laden, Richard Ramirez, and Andrew Dice Clay in order to steel my mind against possibly having to use violence against my fellow bipedal being. I often have my wife shoot me with an airsoft gun as I do so to inure myself to being wounded in combat. I also raise bees, so I get stung on purpose in case the Goblin attacks me in combination with stepping in a hornets nest. In case I am in a shootout during a hurricane I use an industrial fan and firehose so I am used to prodigious amounts of water being blasted in my face while trying to engage the bad guy.
I've also taken to having her(the Mrs.) hit me with rattan canes in case Moro warriors come thru a dimensional warp to my backyard and attack me, which reminds me, I need a .45 acp as .38 special will not do if attacked by Moro's.
Back on topic, I can draw and fire five shots from my j-frame(in my pocket) in 1.2 seconds, unless I have a rhesus monkey on my back biting my ears, in which case I've worked it down to 1.45 seconds, but continue to drill in case of such an eventuality.
I've only had a problem when wearing my longer chainmail shirt, for sharks, but have put a slit in the right side and that seems to keep my pocket draw time down.

Really.

David E
September 5, 2011, 01:41 AM
david e are you drawing concealed with one hand?

Of course.

Do you realize that the .32 difference in time is 3 quick blinks of an eye. Thats not much for someone that is not well practiced at pocket carry.

Blousing the pocket was essentially cheating, but evenso, most of the draws were over 1.5. The big thing I noticed was the consistency. I was much more consistent with the belt holster. Discarding the high/lows, the difference, really, was closer to 1/2 second, or 50% longer than drawing one handed from a concealed belt holster.

Now think about how much quicker it might be for some of use that have years of carry'n this way and do it with only one hand.

We would love to hear a range report on your pocket draws. I've noticed that most people who pocket carry don't practice drawing from it. If they do, it's a "hand on gun" start. Great when you can anticipate the problem in advance....but how about when you don't?

Better still let use carry the way we want and you can do the same with out telling us how lazy we are in your eyes.

Clearly, our priorities are different. If pocket carry gets you to carry a gun, any gun, then great!

hardluk1
September 5, 2011, 10:20 AM
davide You have told many how to not carry or how to carry, how to dress and you tell people they are lazy and to carry a "better gun". Are you going to tell someone like Ayoob how to carry too or correct him when he has a handgun in his pocket.
I got to tell my old leo buddies that when off duty they can't pocket carry or ankle carry anymore. That .32 was really 1/2 second. Got to try that "blousing thang" that may make me quicker. Just not sure you can blouse jeans. That might matter if i timed anything. You know other than the matchs I have shot i never had a clock on anything i do.

If IWB gets you to carry a gun, any gun, then great. Be Happy David, don't preach, your way is not the only option.










Just like you , I found what works for me with out a comprimizeing with my life and i don't have to dress for the occasion . I have never carried a full sized handgun and never will and that also maybe against your views of whats right for you, but works for me.

If i tested draw time like you I would also find my time to draw from a iwb holster might be a bit slower as i have not carried that way long enough to be skilled at it like you are.

You can carry how you wish .Do so and feel safe. I will do it my way with my 9mm.

mavracer
September 5, 2011, 10:41 AM
If they do, it's a "hand on gun" start. Great when you can anticipate the problem in advance....but how about when you don't?
So let's see if I have this, Not wanting to dress around a IWB is lazy but wearing a IWB so you can reduce your situational awareness is not lazy.
We can play the what if game all day. You want to lug four bags of groceries in your arms, I'll use a cart. You want to load the dishwasher in the back of the truck, I have the lowes employees do it.
Bottom line pocket carry allows me to walk around with gun in hand, you can't do that with a IWB without drawing attention to the guy with the gun.

Sassi
September 5, 2011, 10:54 AM
The key is to buy pants that have pockets deep enough to accommodate covering the gun, and pocket holes that are wide enough to allow you to easily reach into the pocket and pull the gun out without any difficulties. All pants made, even by the same company these days are not the same. When I go to buy pants I go into the dressing room and try them on and see if my gun fits the pocket and can be removed from the pocket easily, before I buy.

David E
September 5, 2011, 11:12 AM
davide You have told many how to not carry or how to carry, how to dress and you tell people they are lazy and to carry a "better gun".

No, I haven't. I only challenged the oft-repeated assertion that a pocket draw is apparently always faster than a draw from a belt holster. So far, no one has stepped up to the plate to prove it. Instead, we get only macho bravado that attempts to maintain that assertion by mere speculation. This, amusingly enough, confirms my observation that most pocket carry guys don't practice their draw. Well, maybe once a day when they take the entire rig out at the end of the day.

Any gun you can comfortably carry in your pocket, you can carry a better one on your belt. The reason people don't is simply a matter of convenience, nothing more.

Are you going to tell someone like Ayoob how to carry too or correct him when he has a handgun in his pocket.

Funny you mention Ayoob. I know him and know that: A) he rarely only carries a pocket gun, and B) unlike most, he actually practices such things like drawing from a pocket and making hits on targets.

Got to try that "blousing thang" that may make me quicker. Just not sure you can blouse jeans.

True, not all pockets are suitable for pocket carry. I set mine up to allow the fastest draw possible....and still was slower than the full-size gun from a belt rig, carried in a normal
manner, covered by a normal shirt.

That might matter if i timed anything. You know other than the matchs I have shot i never had a clock on anything i do.

I believe you.

Just like you , I found what works for me with out a comprimizeing (SP) with my life...

I am glad you found a convenient way to carry a gun with you.

David E
September 5, 2011, 11:17 AM
So let's see if I have this, Not wanting to dress around a IWB is lazy but wearing a IWB so you can reduce your situational awareness is not lazy.

Where did you come up with that ?? Why do you feel the need to twist and distort things that weren't even said to make your "point?"

Anyone who carries a gun better have better situational awareness than anyone around him, regardless of how he carries his gun.

You want to lug four bags of groceries in your arms, I'll use a cart.

Got a cart at home, too?

Bottom line is pocket carry allows me to walk around with a hand on my gun...

Yes, it does....... But is your hand really on the gun 100% of the time? Any idea how fast your actual draw is, both hand on gun and with hand out of the pocket? Do you even practice these basics?

JohnBT
September 5, 2011, 01:09 PM
"I only challenged the oft-repeated assertion that a pocket draw is apparently always faster than a draw from a belt holster. So far, no one has stepped up to the plate to prove it."

To prove what? Who said a pocket draw was always faster? I've been pocket carrying everyday since the last century and I know I've never said it. And now I'm lazy for pocket carrying?

I tried a full-sized 1911 for daily concealed carry. Nope, didn't fit my body.
I tried a BHP (and CZ-75B for that matter) both on my hip and appendix carry. Nope, although the BHP worn IWB in front is a lot better than on the hip.
I've tried a 442 and a 649 using belt holsters. Appendix carry isn't bad.
I've tried lots of guns.

Common thread here... my butt is not as flat as my belly.

And I've bought lots of clothes, too.

So now somebody says if you pocket carry you're lazy. Sheesh. Everybody thinks they're an expert. Do I tell everyone to buy a Rohrbaugh? No.

John

Warp
September 5, 2011, 01:14 PM
So let's see if I have this, Not wanting to dress around a IWB is lazy but wearing a IWB so you can reduce your situational awareness is not lazy.


This is a poor statement. He did not say nor imply anything of the sort.

Nobody can always be aware of everything that might happen and nobody can realistically claim that they will have their hand in their pocket on their gun before the time comes to use it.

David E
September 5, 2011, 04:22 PM
4-5 posts in this thread said drawing from the pocket was "just as fast or faster" than drawing from a concealed belt holster.

Ok, prove it. I went out and proved the opposite. The pocket draw was .42 slower (not the misreported .32 another poster said. 1.44 - 1.02= .42) To get that close, I had to "cheat" with the pocket draw.

Why does anyone pocket carry except for convenience? Or, as one poster said, because he refuses to untuck his shirt in public, thereby giving fashion a higher priority. My priorities are different.

As I've said several times already, if pocket carry gets you to tote a gun on your body, great!

CTPhil
September 5, 2011, 04:59 PM
Why does anyone pocket carry except for convenience? Or, as one poster said, because he refuses to untuck his shirt in public, thereby giving fashion a higher priority.

Ha ha, that would be me, a slave to fashion.

That assumption is as baseless as the many other ones you've made in this thread. People have many different reasons for doing what they do, you seem to want to jam everything into one pigeonhole that fits your position, and that also coincidentally assumes the lowest motives on the part of your fellow humans.

mavracer
September 5, 2011, 06:17 PM
Got a cart at home, too?
nope got 2 kids to carry groceries and 5 dogs to help watch for bad guys.
As I said we can play what if all day.
Yes, it does....... But is your hand really on the gun 100% of the time?
No it's not, I usually relax a little at times like when I'm driving down the highway. walking across a dark parking lot you can bet your butt it's 100% Any idea how fast your actual draw is, both hand on gun and with hand out of the pocket?
Yes, it's around .8 OWB no cover or hand on gun in pocket, 1.1 IWB with a cover but can easily get to 1.5 if I have trouble with the cover. Pocket carry with hand out of pocket runs from 1.3 to 1.5 sec.
Do you even practice these basics?
Yes all those times are for a A zone hit on a IDPA target at 10 yards. I've had my pact club timer since I won it at the '93 USPSA area 3 match in St Louis.;)
One more thing from the pocket of a hoodie I can consistantly put two rounds in the C zone at 10 feet in under 1/2 second.:D

David E
September 5, 2011, 06:18 PM
CTPhil, What don't you get? I've said repeatedly my priorities are different. For example, I live on the wild side and wear my shirt untucked in public!

I've said that pocket carry has its place, but that its shortcomings should be honestly addressed. This seems to really get some folks quite agitated.

I have said several times that any gun in a pocket is preferable to a "better" gun left at home.

How is that pigeonholing everyone else?

David E
September 5, 2011, 06:24 PM
Mavracer, good for you! You're the first pocket carry proponent that practices AND knows how fast the draws are.

Everyone else simply speculates, yet, somehow, they just "know" they'll be able to draw in time, even tho they don't practice.

Warp
September 5, 2011, 06:30 PM
Everyone else simply speculates, yet, somehow, they just "know" they'll be able to draw in time, even tho they don't practice.


...and you get this from?

David E
September 5, 2011, 06:38 PM
Observed reality.

CTPhil
September 5, 2011, 06:45 PM
CTPhil, What don't you get? I've said repeatedly my priorities are different. For example, I live on the wild side and wear my shirt untucked in public!

I've said that pocket carry has its place, but that its shortcomings should be honestly addressed. This seems to really get some folks quite agitated.

What you actually said was that people pocket carry because that are lazy. Spin it all you want but the horse is out of the barn.

Warp
September 5, 2011, 06:53 PM
Observed reality

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Get off your high horse already.

420Stainless
September 5, 2011, 06:57 PM
Pocket carry is the only way for me when its above 80 degrees outside (which is about 7 - 8 months of the year in my area). I'm not gonna torture myself in the heat around here for cover garments and a gun belt. I prefer the option of having my hand on the grips without brandishing even if the trade off is some time. When its cooler I prefer to carry a commander for shootability, but still don't give a hoot about the fractions of time I might save on the draw. I'm happy with any tradeoffs involved. I practice for control, but not for speed.

mavracer
September 5, 2011, 06:59 PM
Everyone else simply speculates, yet, somehow, they just "know" they'll be able to draw in time, even tho they don't practice.
It ain't just the guys who pocket carry.

I've said that pocket carry has its place, but that its shortcomings should be honestly addressed. This seems to really get some folks quite agitated.
It's actually your refusal of recognizing the advantages that seem to be causing a lot of it.

David E
September 5, 2011, 07:18 PM
What you actually said was that people pocket carry because that are lazy. Spin it all you want but the horse is out of the barn.

Ok, apparently my word "lazy" really upset the thin-skinned. Upon reflection, I should've said "stubborn" or "defiant" or........

Guillermo
September 5, 2011, 07:19 PM
Actually David...you should have said "vain" or a "slave to fashion".

Perhaps "willing to compromise safety for fashion"

Guess I have an advantage. I know I am ugly and tucking in my shirt ain't gonna change it. :D

David E
September 5, 2011, 07:27 PM
Saying it doesn't make it so.

Get off your high horse already.

Apparently I don't run in the same elite circles as you, where everyone practices, is highly skilled and no one embellished their skill level. No, I just run with normal folks.

Like my friends dad, who never went to the range, but stated with the utmost confidence that he "knew he was good enough to blow a man in 1/2" with his Browning Hipower. A couple years later, I got him to the range where, sadly, he didn't know which was the safety and which wad the slide release. Or the cop that "knew" he could do a sub-one second reload....that turned out to be over 3. Or the other cop that "knew" he had a sub-one second draw from his duty rig that was also over 3.

So, warp, how fast is your pocket draw? Mavracer listed his......

David E
September 5, 2011, 07:33 PM
It's actually your refusal of recognizing the advantages that seem to be causing a lot of it.

Where have I refused to recognize the advantages? Do you even read my posts? I've said multiple times pocket carry has it's advantages. The biggest one being it allows some people to have a gun on them when they otherwise wouldn't. That's a pretty big advantage that I've acknowledged several times.

Dang, people!

Warp
September 5, 2011, 07:47 PM
So, warp, how fast is your pocket draw? Mavracer listed his......


So now you have gone from saying pocket carriers don't practice, due to laziness, to asking me specifically what I have timed myself at. Think you could backpedal away from your previous claims any faster?

David E
September 5, 2011, 08:00 PM
Few people practice, including pocket carry advocates.

Think you could distort my statement further?

I did notice you refused to answer my question.

Warp
September 5, 2011, 08:12 PM
I do not own a shot timer. Most people, even those who are well practiced, do not have a shot timer plus a range where others are not shooting in which to use it.

The only thing I have timed is a Glock 17 out of a level II retention duty holster from when I was in the academy. At the quickest and closest the target faced for 1.5 seconds, during which time we reacted, drew, stepped backward and fired 2 rounds.

David E
September 5, 2011, 08:37 PM
That's interesting....

The cop I referred to who thought he had a sub-one second reload "timed" himself using the same method.

The targets would face for two seconds, face away for one second, then face again for two seconds. Shooters were to draw and fire two for the first facing, RELOAD WHILE IT FACED AWAY FOR ONE SECOND, then reengage with two rds when it faced again.

The reality was, the pneumatics would fire up at least a full second before the targets actually turned. Everyone already had their gun out, as most started with their hand on the gun. As soon as the targets faced, a fast two were fired and the reload begun....before the target faces away for one second. Essentially, everyone had 3.5-4 seconds to do their reload. But since he was waiting on the target to face again, he thought he had a sub-one second reload. He was mistaken, no matter how much he believed otherwise.

So, if I have this straight, you have no idea how fast your pocket draw is, or what your IWB/OWB draw is, much less how they compare.

I do hope you practice....don't you?

Warp
September 5, 2011, 08:39 PM
You call that the same method? ROFL. Sure thing buddy, sure thing.

You need to stop acting as though your own personal decision and choice of methods is the single best aswer for everybody.

David E
September 5, 2011, 08:45 PM
Go back and read my posts.

If pocket carry is what it takes for you to carry a gun, then great.

And be honest, you reacted at the mechanism or pneumatics firing up, didn't you! If you had an updated system, then at the very least you reacted when the target started moving, thereby giving you another 1/2 second on each side of the target facing.

mavracer
September 5, 2011, 08:53 PM
Where have I refused to recognize the advantages?
gosh I don't know maybe when you continually make excuses as to why I can't start with a full grip on the gun in my pocket. which I see as a huge advantage. because I can and have done that even when I have the ability to draw the other gun from my IWB strongside.;)

Mike1234567
September 5, 2011, 09:37 PM
Wow... all this bickering. I feel like I'm married again but without the side benefits.:)

skoro
September 5, 2011, 09:42 PM
Really.

It's nearly my exclusive means of carry. PF-9, P3AT, or S&W 642. Works for me.

YMMV :)

David E
September 5, 2011, 10:13 PM
gosh I don't know maybe when you continually make excuses as to why I can't start with a full grip on the gun in my pocket. which I see as a huge advantage. because I can and have done that even when I have the ability to draw the other gun from my IWB strongside.;)

Go back and read my posts.

In Post #15 I said that "having your hand on the gun is great when you can do it...."

In Post #18, I say "having your hand is a great technique" (for a backup gun, ideally)

Kinda deflates your superfluous accusations, eh?

Rexster
September 5, 2011, 10:26 PM
I don't know about being a slave to fashion, as I have no fashion sense, but my Dad always seems to wear button-up shirts, with collars, with square-cut tails, un-tucked, even to church, except on occasions when he wears a suit, and he is a non-gun person. (not anti-gun, just non-gun) He is age 78 now, and of course, retired, but he worked in what I reckon we would term a business-casual environment, for a major oil company, and wore his shirts the same back then, with dress slacks and dress shoes.

Living in the South, near the Gulf Coast, tails-out has been normal for decades.

I just thought I would mention this, as a FWIW.

EmGeeGeorge
September 5, 2011, 10:34 PM
Yep. Bickering.

Carry how you wanna carry.

Lotsa Mall-Ninjery in threads lately, from the same people.

I carry a j-frame in my pocket sometimes. I carry and lcp other times. On occasion I carry an xd or even a makarov IWB open topped.

I shoot them each regular enough to know I can put 'em center mass on a person at at 3 feet, at 7 yards, at 25 yrds with a little more focus.

I know that the years I lived in Buffalo in a sketchy area, I was only almost mugged twice, strong-arm style no weapons. I got out okay, kept my teeth and wallet.

Where I live now I carry cause I can, prolly never will need it (here)...

If you walk around expecting to get in a running pistol battle as a civilian, as a non-l.e. officer I think you're putting alot of time into something that is most likely an non-event. How about worry about doing more cardio, eating less fat, quitting smoking, cutting back on drinking...? More likely to shorten your life than a bad guy with a glock and 10 magazines who decides to start shooting at you at 30 yards...

Some of these posts are downright nasty. I like a good argument, but I never act the expert in an area I am not... I don't know everything, I haven't been everywhere and done everything, and I can say I know what works for me and why and I'll share it, but aside from someone telling someone to do something that is outright stupid I try not to judge too much...:neener:

huntsman
September 5, 2011, 11:23 PM
but my Dad always seems to wear button-up shirts, with collars, with square-cut tails, un-tucked, even to church,

+1 I'm and old man who wears what he wants, 5 pocket jeans ( or jean shorts) cotton shirt un-tucked, works with OWB or pocket carry.

No blousing of shirts or baggy pants with way too many pockets or gadget holsters.

David E
September 6, 2011, 12:18 AM
Huntsman, exactly. It's not difficult to carry IWB/OWB if one simply chooses to.

Guillermo
September 6, 2011, 01:07 AM
It's not difficult to carry IWB/OWB if one simply chooses to

absolutely.

I carry a 2.5 or 4 inch D frame OWB almost all the time.

It is easy to get a consistently quick draw. And then a quick, reliable hit.

I hope I never need it.

mdauben
September 6, 2011, 06:26 AM
I averaged 1.44. This was using a S&W 642 from a KyTac Pocket-Lockit

My draw from a concealed belt holster averaged 1.02. This was using a full size 1911 from a KyTac Counter Attack rig.
Obviously your mileage does vary, but I don't consider less than 1/2 a second difference in draw time significant. Certainly, you can fabricate a situation where that would make the difference between life and death in a real SD situation, but how often is less than 1/2 a second really going to matter?

In any case, as you said that was a 'best' situation for the pocket carry, so most times it is probably even greater. I acknowledged that. A belt holster under lose fitting cover clothing is the best CCW option, no question. I just say that 1 or 2 or even 3 seconds slower is better than coming up empty handed in a SD situation.

Citing laziness on your part as a valid reason for pocket carry won't fly with me
Reality check. I'll accept that you carry your full size 1911 with you 24/7 in a belt holster, with your wardrobe adjusted to make that work and no "tucked in" or "zippered up" clothing blocking access to that holster. That's your choice and I admire you for it. If, god forbid, I ever found myself in a life-or-death situation, I would certainly want to be armed that way.

However, my (or anyone else's) CCW decisions don't have to 'fly' with you.

If we are going to be realistic, most CCW holders simply won't go to that extreme. Is that 'laziness' or a 'poor choice'? Perhaps it is, but its their choice to make.

For example, I generally don't consistently "carry" around the house and in the summer time often can be found in nothing but shorts and a t-shirt (in the 90 degrees 90% humidity common in my area, wearing a second button down shirt or some sort of vest over that t-shirt it just too hot). If I suddenly realize I need to run out for 10 minutes to teh local supermarket for a gallon of milk, I'm much more likely to carry if I can just slip a gun/holster into the pocket of my shorts than I am if I have change my clothing to accommodate concealing a gun/holster on the belt.

Again, yes that's a compromise but sometimes for me its a worthwhile one. YMMV

bdb benzino
September 6, 2011, 06:55 AM
I can't beleive the way some people are acting about a persons method of carry or how fast they can draw. The most important thing is to be armed and the second one is to practice. Who cares what time it takes to draw as long as you practice and try your fastest. In the end if it comes down to it all you can do is your best, and that will be different for everyone.
We should all be on the same side as gun enthusiasts, not condemning eachother because we don't know our draw times. Zip it up boys, this is not a pissing contest!
All you can do is practice, practice, and pray you don't need it!

JohnBT
September 6, 2011, 09:00 AM
"Why does anyone pocket carry except for convenience?"

Because the other ways don't work for me. As I explained, it's about body type. Simple. It's not that difficult to understand.

John

mavracer
September 6, 2011, 09:41 AM
Obviously your mileage does vary, but I don't consider less than 1/2 a second difference in draw time significant. Certainly, you can fabricate a situation where that would make the difference between life and death in a real SD situation, but how often is less than 1/2 a second really going to matter?
The problem is the situation you fabricate is a loosing proposition.
Because the bottom line is either we see trouble coming and I have my hand in pocket on gun or we get caught flat footed and a .4 faster draw is not gonna help.

hardluk1
September 6, 2011, 10:19 AM
The bottom lines is it does not matter how fast someone thinks they are at the range with there timer running to record there blazeing speed or how many bullets you can place in the heart of a target at 25 yards under control. It is all about how you will react to instant high stress levels if and when you get attacked. And for all the prcactice some will go thru you may still loose all ability to control a draw no matter how you carry or what you carry or how you dress.

David E
September 6, 2011, 11:19 AM
The most important thing is to be armed

Agreed, which I've stated 6-7 times in this thread.

and the second one is to practice.

Again agreed.

Who cares what time it takes to draw

The badguy might care very much.

But that's only if you're the primary focus of said badguy. If you're a diner at Luby's when the shooting starts, that extra 1/2 second probably won't matter, depending where you're sitting. But how many have practiced drawing their sightless .32 or .380 from their front pocket while seated at or while under a table?

All you can do is practice, practice, and pray you don't need it!

No, it's not all you can do, but it's a great start.

JohnBT
September 6, 2011, 11:26 AM
Looking ahead to winter, anybody timed their draw from a belt holster while wearing a zipped up parka over it?

A medium-sized (or small) gun in the outside flap pocket comes out extremely quickly.

John

David E
September 6, 2011, 12:21 PM
I sure haven't.......because that's not how I do things in winter.

But you hit upon one of the great applications of pocket carry.

This is one of the "places" I meant in Post #15 when I said "Pocket carry has it's place, but it also has serious limitations that should be honestly addressed."

mavracer
September 6, 2011, 12:27 PM
But how many have practiced drawing their sightless .32 or .380 from their front pocket while seated at or while under a table?
I know it's cliche, but how many actually regularly seat themselves so that their back is to a wall where you have a good view on the room and ability to keep an eye on what comes through the door?

David E
September 6, 2011, 06:43 PM
Of course.

What happened at the IHOP today in Carson City shows why.

Red Cent
September 6, 2011, 08:00 PM
Uhhhhhhhh Mav, I guess I gotta plead guilty.

rdrancher
September 6, 2011, 08:20 PM
You 'been watching me mav? ;)

Rexster
September 6, 2011, 08:23 PM
I know it's cliche, but how many actually regularly seat themselves so that their back is to a wall where you have a good view on the room and ability to keep an eye on what comes through the door?

I regularly do so. It is not always feasible, so not always, but yes, regularly.

Jaymo
September 6, 2011, 08:35 PM
I know it's cliche, but how many actually regularly seat themselves so that their back is to a wall where you have a good view on the room and ability to keep an eye on what comes through the door?

I do. I thought I was the only one.

CTPhil
September 6, 2011, 09:15 PM
I do too. And if in a booth, the outer side.

Warp
September 6, 2011, 10:59 PM
I know it's cliche, but how many actually regularly seat themselves so that their back is to a wall where you have a good view on the room and ability to keep an eye on what comes through the door?


I do. Everybody knows to leave me a seat with a good view, my wife especially. It isn't always about watching the door, though, sometimes something else might be a higher priority.

sixgunner455
September 6, 2011, 11:33 PM
Pocket carry is convenient, and can be comfortable, and that means that people will actually carry who otherwise wouldn't. There doesn't need to be another reason. If you're not comfortable carrying that way, or carrying that way as your only means of being armed, then don't do it. People have been doing it that way, though, ever since there were reliable guns small enough to do so. It is a perfectly legitimate way to carry a firearm.

I usually carry that way. I carry bigger guns in addition sometimes, but I usually just have my finish-worn 642 and a speed strip.

I carry all the time. The IHOP thing in Carson City is just the latest example of why. "Nothing ever happens here" ... until it just did. Carrying all the time, I used to do with an M16, but that was in an environment where carrying that type of hardware wasn't remarkable. In my hometown, friendly as we are to guns here, that would likely raise an eyebrow or two. Holstered guns rarely do. Completely hidden guns never do.

David E
September 7, 2011, 01:03 AM
I wonder how many pocket carriers using only one gun carry spare ammo.

If so, where, how (strip, loader or magazine,) and how many rds?

Warp
September 7, 2011, 01:11 AM
When I pocket carry it's just the 5 in the gun much of the time. Sometimes a speed strip comes along.

But then I pocket carry because I spend a lot of time on a college campus where carry is illegal in GA. I keep my 642 in a pocket holster in a safe under my seat, which is unlocked while driving. If I stop somewhere going to/from campus I take it out and slip it into my pocket. 5 rounds of buffalo bore 158gr LSWCHP +P will probably do the trick. Probably. And anything more would be quite the hastle for a 5 minute stop at the gas station, grocery store or mcdonalds. It is not very hard to slip a snub into your pocket as you sit in your driver seat. Putting a larger gun in a waist holster on my belt would be a little more awkward, esp when I am in uniform with a tucked shirt.

mavracer
September 7, 2011, 08:42 AM
Everything gets carried with at least one reload. 5-6 round pocket revolvers have 5-6 rounds in speed strip(s) in lr pocket. Pocket autos 6-7 round mag.

huntsman
September 7, 2011, 11:08 AM
I wonder how many pocket carriers using only one gun carry spare ammo.

If so, where, how (strip, loader or magazine,) and how many rds?

the little pocket in my 5 pocket jeans holds my extra mag regardless of how I carry my gun.

FAS1
September 7, 2011, 11:28 AM
I pocket carry all the time in addition to IWB some of the time. In my last CHL renewal we discussed the popularity of it and ran drills to show how slow it is to draw your weapon when someone attacks from 21' away. 95% of the time our hand never made it out of the pocket before the attacker was on top of you. That was starting with your hands to your side. Obviously, someone with good situation awareness or practices a little will slightly change the odds. For me it's just a part of my plan, if needed just as the Spyderco C07 that is always clipped on at the SOB. I can grab it faster with either hand in the same situation.

420Stainless
September 7, 2011, 10:22 PM
I wonder how many pocket carriers using only one gun carry spare ammo.

I don't. I don't have an occupation that causes me to go looking for trouble. I don't have habits, friends, or family members that bring trouble to me. I do not have enough money or possessions that are likely to embolden someone, or a gang of someones, to continue to press an attack once they realize I'm armed and willing to shoot. That leaves me open to someone who is drug crazed, suicidal, or to a crime of passion. Very slight odds worth continually preparing myself for and making even more pocket space available; or buying special clothes with more? Not for me, but it is for you. We all have different fears. Getting caught up in a running gun battle is not one of mine. Sure it could happen. But odds are, I might be better off spending money on defensive driving lessons, or testing for chemicals in my food, or extra time in the gym, or buying a vehicle much larger than average. Life is very precious, but a life spent in worry about things that are not likely to happen to me would make it considerably less precious. I believe that carrying a handgun in my pocket without reloads will get me through the vast majority of circumstance for which I will likely need a gun and am satisfied that it is enough for me. When I start reading about CCW holders commonly getting shot because they didn't get their gun into action fast enough or because they ran dry then I might reconsider the need to change my ways.

mark1616
September 8, 2011, 12:19 AM
"I wonder how many pocket carriers using only one gun carry spare ammo.

If so, where, how (strip, loader or magazine,) and how many rds?"


When I pocket carry the S&W 642 I carry two speed strips (10 spare rounds) in a cell phone case on my belt.

When I will pocket carry the Kahr cm9, I will carry a mag (8 spare rounds) either in the cell phone case or I may buy a holder specifically for it.

sixgunner455
September 8, 2011, 12:28 AM
420 - I always carry a reload, not because I think that I'm likely to have to reload in a firefight (though that could happen, I suppose, and the rounds are available if it does) but, primarily, so I can reload afterwards.

A speed strip is small, and doesn't weigh very much. I have a couple of speed loaders in my truck, too.

Lucky Derby
September 8, 2011, 12:34 AM
420Stainless-Great post.

Boy, this is quite a thread, with the bickering and judgementalism.

Yes I pocket carry. Usually it is a BUG, but sometimes it is primary. When on my own time, I wear untucked shirts. When on company time, that is not an option. For now (a tuckable holster has been ordered) pocket carry is about the only way I can carry at work. Once my new holster gets here I will go IWB at work, with a more substancial firearm. Years ago I tried an IWB. I decided, at the time, that I saw no benefit for me in a traditional IWB. OWB was not that much harder to conceal and was faster and more comfortable. Now that work requires tucked in shirts, I am revisiting it.

I have carried a 6.5" S&W M29 in a shoulder holster. It required attention to dress, holster and even grips. No, I do not think that anyone not willing to do all this for EDC is lazy.

Lucky Derby
September 8, 2011, 12:39 AM
When only pocket carrying, I carry a speedstrip in a Most Versatile Pouch from Simply Rugged. Yes it can be seen on my belt, but it doesn't look like a gun item. If anyone ever asks (no one has) I will tell them it contains keys. If I am OWB, I have a speedloader in a Safariland Split Six.

Tony_the_tiger
September 8, 2011, 01:13 AM
Pocket carry is just dandy.

Guillermo
September 8, 2011, 10:23 AM
I wonder how many pocket carriers using only one gun carry spare ammo.

no matter how I carry...I have a reload.

My backpack (friends tease me and call it my "purse") has a full size handgun w 2 reloads.

451 Detonics
September 8, 2011, 01:01 PM
I carry front pocket for my BUG almost daily. Recently I switched from a Kel-Tec PF-9 to a 642 in that role simply because the revolver is faster to draw. Despite being about the same dimensions as far as height and length goes the sloped frame of the revolver draws much smoother than the square semi auto frame does.

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z271/reloader1959/handguns/pocketbug2.jpg

With the pocket gun it is very easy to look natural with a hand in the pocket holding the gun ready to draw, there is no way to stand naturally with a hnad gripping your gun in a belt holster... you look like you are drawing a gun no matter what.starting with hand in pocket I can clear the pocket and fire very quickly, faster than I can sweep a cover garment out of the way then draw and fire from a belt holster.

So with warning I would have my hand already gripping the gun in my pocket...no warning and I would go to the belt.

I normally have on shorts in the summer, loose fit or carpenter jeans the rest of the time. When I try on any pants I do try the pocket gun in them as well.

Rexster
September 8, 2011, 03:28 PM
When I leave the house, I carry spare ammo, though to be clear, I am a "pocket carrier" only in that I see a pocket as a good place to carry one of two or more weapons. Two weapons, with one in a front pocket, allows me the opportunity to use the hand-in-pocket tactic when trouble is perceived early, and the ability to draw from a more conventional carry position when a situation is already dynamic or in-progress.

I agree with 451 Detonics, regarding the sloping top rear of the revolver's frame making a snubby better than most autos for pocket carry. This is particularly true when spurless-hammer snubbies are compared to striker-fired autos.

Tony_the_tiger
September 8, 2011, 10:50 PM
Sweet, 9mm + p DPX in a 642 :eek:

27hand
September 9, 2011, 10:00 AM
I think a lot of people fool themselves into thinking that they will have ANY opportunity to draw a weapon at bad breath range.

If your awareness level is such that a guy is in your face with a knife, gun or any impact weapon, you will be hard pressed to even present ANY type of SD weapon.

The BG will not wait for you to get comfortable enough to make a move.
If you CAN make distance by employing some sort of H to H, MAYBE, you could pull them pistols.

Other than that, give up the goods to live another day.

Just my inexperienced opinion.

27

Kendal Black
September 9, 2011, 10:30 AM
Pocket carry is a very good way to keep a small gun out of sight. Simply pick the right pants, pleated front Dockers, cargo shorts and so on--not close-fitting jeans.

Pocket carry is not great for a lightning quick draw and drawing is rather awkward if you are seated. If you are seat belted into a bucket seat it's not very good at all.

But the gun is there on your person, well concealed. Certainly this may be allowed to stand as a good point. If a larger gun or a better location for the gun would compromise concealability, there you have your argument in favor of pocket carry.

IMTHDUKE
September 9, 2011, 10:47 AM
Boy, this is quite a thread, with the bickering and judgementalism.


Agreed...the escalation of these threads are predictable and humorous to me.

First, you got a guy that pocket carries, he is comfortable doing it but does it consistently. Good for him, its not for everyone but it fits his lifestyle. He feels he is covered for 99.5% of encounters.

Then comes this guy that doesn't like pocket carry, in his opinion. He says, "you'll never be able to present that gun quick enough". Well, maybe not, but maybe so. Advice is....you need to carry in an IWB super quick draw fast as lightning Wyatt Earp holster.

Another guy says...yeah but...if you don't have at least as much ammo as a Marine rifle platoon on a search and destroy mission, you are goin be toast.

Then comes a guy that says...yeah but those small cal pockets wont stop a elephant on steroids and coke, you need to shoulder carry a Desert Eagle 50cal so when said BG becomes a threat you can blow him right into the next zip code.
So,.......I usually pocket carry one of these....but no more....I am now persuded that is totally wrong....what have I been thinking?...

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/Kimbersolo.jpg

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/BlackRose_best.jpg

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/238.jpg

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/Robar.jpg

From now on....I will just carry on of these...forget pocket carry...

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/25355.jpg

Oh yes....I will also bring along my puppy dog....Wilson.

http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww2/imthduke/GUNS/62520996536311.jpg

God speed and party on...ye pocket carryers:D

sixgunner455
September 9, 2011, 11:32 AM
Party on, Garth.

David E
September 9, 2011, 12:12 PM
The recent shooting at the IHOP illustrates a couple things.

Having a gun WITH you, as on your body, is essential.

If you were sitting facing the door, you might've seen the thug shoot the motorcyclist with his AK before coming into IHOP, you would've had time to draw your gun, no matter where you carried it.

If you were deeper on the restaurant, then maybe your first clue would've been as he walked by.

If your back was facing everything and your table was next to the National Guard troops, then maybe your first clue would've been the first shot. Bad time to do any kind of draw, especially a pocket draw while seated.......while being shot at.

But if you were facing the door and did get your sightless .32 in hand, what's the best way to engage a psycho with an AK at the beginning of his killing spree in a restaurant full of innocent people?

Maybe you would've found a way, it's all speculative.

The big lesson to me is to sit tactically (hate that over-used word) and keep your situational awareness high.

mavracer
September 9, 2011, 03:17 PM
But if you were facing the door and did get your sightless .32 in hand, what's the best way to engage a psycho with an AK at the beginning of his killing spree in a restaurant full of innocent people?

Maybe you would've found a way, it's all speculative.

But if you were facing the door and did get any pistol in hand, what's the best way to engage a psycho with an AK at the beginning of his killing spree in a restaurant full of innocent people?
Still sounds like a bad situation to me.
Maybe you would've found a way, it's all speculative.

armsmaster270
September 9, 2011, 03:56 PM
I carry a Sig 226 in 357Sig Strong Side hip and a S&W J frame 340PD 357Mag in my lf pocket as a BUG. If I was in the restauraunt I would engage He is a much greater threat than me trying to stop him and I do not wish him to hit me.

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff207/armsmaster270/Guns/DSCF1056.jpg

hardluk1
September 9, 2011, 05:01 PM
duke Cool puppy and deer rifle.

I do carry a extra mag or two in a knife pouch or side pocket for my cm9 or cw9.

420Stainless
September 9, 2011, 06:29 PM
420 - I always carry a reload, not because I think that I'm likely to have to reload in a firefight (though that could happen, I suppose, and the rounds are available if it does) but, primarily, so I can reload afterwards.

A speed strip is small, and doesn't weigh very much. I have a couple of speed loaders in my truck, too.


Absolutely nothing wrong with carrying what you feel comfortable with. Never hurts to be better prepared.

The main purpose of my post was to explain why I don't feel a need for me to carry extra ammo on my body.

I do keep extra ammo in my vehicle in the event that I might be far from the house when some event that might cause mass violence or looting occurs or just simply that my vehicle breaks down while I'm traveling through bad or unknown territory. If such happens then it is easy for me to take with me if I need to abandon the vehicle.

MCgunner
September 9, 2011, 09:20 PM
I walk with my hand in my pocket. I ride motorcycles more than I drive. To each his own, but belt carry is impossible down here most of the year and a PITA at any rate. If I lived up in Oregon or something where it never gets hotter than 80 degrees and there's no humidity, I might be able to wear a cover garment even in summer, but not here even in winter most of the time. Pocket carry, I don't even notice it, forget I'm carrying during the day. I will continue to pocket carry and i can draw and fire post hate. :D But, I do practice now and then. Do as you feel works for you. Everyone has their fave systems that work best for them.

Guillermo
September 9, 2011, 10:48 PM
of course McGunner usually rides a nitrous injected Hayabusa.

He can shoot and catch his own bullet.

He has to hide his gun in a pocket as his shirt flaps behind him like Superman's cape.

:neener:

mavracer
September 9, 2011, 11:11 PM
I do keep extra ammo in my vehicle in the event that I might be far from the house when some event that might cause mass violence or looting occurs or just simply that my vehicle breaks down while I'm traveling through bad or unknown territory. If such happens then it is easy for me to take with me if I need to abandon the vehicle.
heck ya extra ammo, an extra gun, extra knife, a shovel, an ax, a come-a-long, air tank and tire plug kit just to name a few. Thing is I can put 200 extra pounds in the back of the Bronco and it neither causes me any discomfort or pulls my pants down.

mavracer
September 9, 2011, 11:15 PM
Hey Duke you might get some anbasol for Wilson I bet that broken caning is causing a bit of his apparent bad disposition.

asmith759
November 27, 2011, 10:44 PM
I carry a Glock 23 or 19 IWB in a Crossbreed supertuck with a 642 or CM9 in a pocket for BUG when I can. But I always have one of the pocket guns on me. I keep a reload in my truck but never felt the need to carry extra ammo when I usually carry two guns.

If you enjoyed reading about "Pocket Carry. Really?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!