What is a torture test?

What makes a good "torture test" for an automatic pistol? If you had unlimited funds to do it how would you run the test? What specifically would make the test meaningful or valid to you?

I would buy 10 each of a several competing brands of pistols in the same class (G17, H&K USP9, M&P 9, XD9, SIG 226, Walther P99, etc.). I would shoot each pistol until a major component failed (barrel, slide, or frame). Small parts would be replaced as needed. Cleaning would only be performed when functioning became problematic.

I would document
Failures. What type and at what round count
What parts were replaced and at what round count
Periodic accuracy tests (every 10k rounds or so).
and of course, how many rounds before a major component failed

A while back I decided to do a "torture test" on the Makarov.
I wanted to see if I could make the gun fail to fire when shooting a thousand rounds of FMJ and JHP. I used a new Mak that was taken right from the box and tested.

All the tests started with a full magazine, round in the chamber, and hammer cocked.

I didn't want to damage the gun but I did everything that I could think of that could happen under "normal" circumstances.

For instance, you drop your gun in the mud as you pull it from the holster. You are under fire so all you have time to do is pick the gun up, shake it once and start pulling the trigger.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Makinmud.jpg

The gun did not fire on the first SA trigger pull because the mud prevented the hammer from hitting the firing pin. The trigger was immediately pulled DA and the gun fired and fired the 8 rounds in the magazine with the next 8 SA trigger pulls.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Makfiredwithmud.jpg

Other tests were filling the inside of the gun with "pocket lint".
No problem.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Makcoveredwithlint.jpg

The gun was greatly over lubed with a thick gun grease and frozen.
Only problem was the gun was cold to hold while firing the 9 shots.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Makfrozen_2.jpg

I did a number of other tests, like leaving the gun (loaded) in water, in which the Mak passed with flying colors.

The last test was for accuracy. The gun was still factory new accurate but this is about the best I could shoot.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Maktestgun35yards.jpg

Not very meaningful or valuable, but I found this Ruger P345 test interesting. Mostly, I guess, since you always see these things done to Glocks, and not so much to Ruger's.

http://archives.gunsandammo.com/video/handguns/reviews/torture-tests/ruger-p345-pistol

All you prove is what that pistol will take or not take. It only 1 of many. So test really proves nothing about that line of pistols

What makes a good "torture test" for an automatic pistol? If you had unlimited funds to do it how would you run the test? What specifically would make the test meaningful or valid to you?

Find your pistol...
Tell the wife before you buy it...
Tell her how much the pistol costs...
Explain that you understand we have a baby on the way...
Buy it anyway...

TORTURE TEST :neener:

All you prove is what that pistol will take or not take. It only 1 of many. So test really proves nothing about that line of pistols.

It proves that a typical, fresh from the box, Makarov will still function reliably under adverse conditions.
But Makarov owners already know that.:D

This was a good one http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90

What makes a good "torture test" for an automatic pistol? If you had unlimited funds to do it how would you run the test? What specifically would make the test meaningful or valid to you?

I strap my 1911's to a table and drip water on thier slides. If they freak out and start screaming where my ammo stash is hidden after a few hours, they fail.

I strap my 1911's to a table and drip water on thier slides. If they freak out and start screaming where my ammo stash is hidden after a few hours, they fail.

ROTFLMAO!
Mods we need a smiley or emoticon or something of that nature for this type of post or to reply to it, You have to admit it's kind of funny.

I get a kick outa the guys that spend several hundred dollars of hard earned money and then try to ruin there brand new handgun. I mean really what you going to do if you did cause it to fail and need major repair or worst? I know things happen but your not supose to drop your gun and kick it into a ditch or let it get run over by a truck. You will shorten it's life it might not fail today but it will fail sooner or later. There is no excuse for abuse.

your not supose to drop your gun and kick it into a ditch or let it get run over by a truck

This is true, but in the real world stuff like this does happen, especially guns used in the military. It is not uncommon to pick up anything you can find laying on the ground and use it after your primary gun runs out of ammo or fails.

While most of us would never abuse a gun that way it is nice to know just how much abuse particular guns will take and still work.

My 15 year marriage was a torture test. All these years afterward and I still don't know whether I passed or failed. But I did survive it... sort of.:)

jmr40
I agree stuff Happens, but my point is would YOU spend YOUR money to do this to YOUR gun just to see what happens?

The problem with torture tests is that it only proves that the gun is good at torture tests.

Lets use a Glock as an example. Everyone knows Glock is going to rule torture tests.

Tiny little frame rails in huge clunky slide rail slots. Plenty of room for the rail to wipe grit away. Same for the inside of the slide. A huge anout of volume in that square slide for dirt to get knocked/wiped into away from critical areas. In a 1911 there is nowhere for the dirt to go inside that skinny slide.

But real world testing proves a different point. Look towards the competition community for such testing. Half of those guys are running combat quality setups, the other half are running modified guns that are setup way outside the "reliable" tolerances the original designers had in mind. Soft recoil springs for weak ammo, lightweight trigger setups on the ragged edge of reliability of reset, etc. etc.

Using the Glock as an example again we learned that fresh updated mags are a huge improvement and that the springs need replaced on a regular interval just like a 1911. (recoil, mag, slide stop, trigger, and takedown lever springs)

And while you can lube a Glock with toothpaste, proper cleaning and lubing deos have an effect on reliability and safety. (Go ahead foul your barrel with lead, who needs fingers anyways)

The Glock torture tests seem to prove that Glocks are invincable. But we know in the real world, or at least a world with more realistic testing, that they need common sense maintenance just like any other pistol. I try to replicate the condidtions my guns will see in actual use to determine if they will be reliable. For my CCW that means I pull it from my holster, tac reload from my JHP mag to cheap FMJ, and shoot it. Yes I shoot the JHP that was in the pipe.

Some people do this for fun. Nothing wrong with that.





Note: During a water torture test, the Glocks and HK's give up the location of my ammo stash pretty quickly, but not as quick as a Made in Brazil Springfield. Made in America 1911's never give in. FN's just spit the water right back. And Berretta's just pass out like a girl. No 1911's were rusted in the creation of this post.

These have been posted many, many, many, many times but they are decent examples of torture testing.

So... Glocks Rule Torture Tests, Huh?? #1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbvvurXmAmg) :evil:

So... Glocks Rule Torture Tests, Huh?? #2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmt5QB814Tw&feature=relmfu) :neener:

There are basically four kinds of tests. Statistically, you need about 30 randomly-selected examples of the gun being tested.

1. Accuracy test -- this simply involves shooting the guns and measuring the groups.

2. Endurance test -- this is where you fire thousands of rounds and document all stopages and broken parts.

3. Torture test -- this is where the guns are fired extensively under extreme conditions -- mud, sand, rust, and so on.

4. Destruction test -- the guns are fired with increasingly heavy loads until they are destroyed.