Marlin QC problems and the Guide Gun?


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AethelstanAegen
September 2, 2011, 11:52 AM
I've been hearing that Marlin has recently been having some quality control problems with some of their rifles. Does anyone know if this extends to their 1895 .45/70 rifles? I've been planning to buy an 1895G (the guide gun) but no local stores carry it, so I would have to order it sight unseen. Has anyone bought a Marlin guide gun recently and if so, how was the quality?

Many thanks!

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Sheepdog1968
September 2, 2011, 12:08 PM
I bought an 1895 SBL not that long ago and it had around a half dozen issues that really should have been caught and fixed at the factory before it was sent out. I went into this eyes wide open because I had been looking for well over a year and had troubles finding this specific model. My advice would be to find a used one built 2007 or older rather than buy a new one.

AethelstanAegen
September 2, 2011, 01:12 PM
Thanks for the input and advice, sheepdog1968. It's too bad that Marlin's having so many problems these days. I may just hold off until they sort the problems out.

quietman
September 2, 2011, 01:44 PM
Some QC issues???? Try it's turning into a disaster.

Receiver to barrel mating issues, canted sights, levers that won't cycle or feel like they're full of sand, poor checkering, poor wood to metal fit, the list goes on. And this isn't just with the guide gun.

And Marlin says on their facebook page that everything is hunky dory. Tell that to a bunch of Marlin Owner members that each went into a store to buy a new rifle and walked out absolutely disgusted with what's on the shelf, refusing to buy.

Let's not even get into the issues with the Marlin Express series that started in the 91 serial number series (last year they were made in CT).

It's so bad that Marlin sent an 1894SBL to Shooting Times for review and the author actually complained about the poor manufacturing quality. And this was with a review rifle, which are usually hand selected to send to the magazines.

Things are in a sad state right now and both Marlin and Remington refuse to acknowledge this to the public. So to the public it appears they are refusing to do anything ab out it except to keep shoving substandard guns into boxes for shipping.

Rossi released a 45/70 this year, and Henry's will be out sometime next year. Henry's new version of their steel 30-30 is really nice. If Mossberg moves in with additional calibers, Marlin will be in even bigger trouble than they are now.

PapaG
September 2, 2011, 02:26 PM
Read online that Marlin shut the doors and let out about 265 people. Any truth to that. It was also mentioned in one of the outdoor magazines.
All my Marlins are OLD.....my 39 is from 1945, my 336 from the 50's, my 444 is not labelled 444, but rather 336-444, and my 94 is pre-safety. Love 'em all. Some of the newer ones we've gotten in the shop weren't nearly as well put together as the old ones. The new bolt guns were really nice, however.

Mike1234567
September 2, 2011, 02:31 PM
I recently purchased 3 Marlins... looked for older ones in good shape just to avoid the hassle.

sansone
September 2, 2011, 03:29 PM
the problems are there, but over-stated. If you get a bad one, you will need to send it back and wait. It sucks but the custom shop will fix it. I think they are in Kentucky

Sheepdog1968
September 2, 2011, 03:55 PM
Our local dealer sends out a weekly newsletter. The one he sent out about 9 days ago had a deatiled listing of about a dozen or more 336, 1894, 1895 models that they will not be manufacturing for the rest of 2011. It was a long list. My reading the tea leaves is that hopefully they are temporarely haulting production to fix the mfg line.

AethelstanAegen
September 2, 2011, 05:06 PM
I'll guess I'll have to keep an eye out for an older one or find one I can inspect in person before purchasing. I hadn't heard of the Rossi before. It looks intriguing. Anyone know anything about it?

Sheepdog1968, awesome Thor's hammer sig.

Sheepdog1968
September 2, 2011, 06:13 PM
I dug up the email. Here's the list:

Marlin firearms has released notice that the following rifles will not be produced in 2011 :
1895CB 1894SBL 1894CSBL 338MX 1894CB 357 1894CB 45 1894CB 44 1894SBL 1895G 338MXLR 444Marlin 1895XLR 1894CSS 1894SS

Abel
September 2, 2011, 07:26 PM
Yes, they are trash. But there is no reason to call them Marlins. They're Remingtons.

Mike1234567
September 2, 2011, 07:44 PM
They're the diet Coke of Marlins. Just one calorie... not even enough.

Gator 23
September 2, 2011, 08:42 PM
Marlin....a tragedy of sorts.

Abel
September 2, 2011, 09:07 PM
The last Guide Gun that I picked up was in a gunshop in Goldsboro, NC. It was brand new, with the tag. It had a remington serial number.

It was missing the rear sight elevator and the front sight was crooked. You keep on buyin' them junk Marlingtons.

stsimons
September 2, 2011, 09:23 PM
This fax from the Freedom Group was posted on the Marlin Owners Forum:

"As of Aug. 12 2011 all Marlin lever production has offically been suspended for the remaining 2011 calender year while we try to fix the production quality issue at our plant".

Apparently it listed every single Marlin lever made and the serial/production numbers.

I would suggest if you are serious about purchasing a new Remington made Marlin (REMLIN) that you sign up at the Marlin Owners Forum and read the Marlin Rant section

http://www.marlinowners.com/

I absolutely HATE to see what has happened to Marlin. I have always been VERY happy with my Marlin Rifles, the first of which was given to me on my 10th birthday by my Grandfather (a bolt action tube-fed Marlin 22LR) Since then I have had numerous lever action 336 rifles in 30-30 and my current favorite deer rifle, my first-run JM stamped Marlin XS7 in 7mm-08. Its the most accurate hunting rifle I have ever owned.

Personally, I think the old Marlin is dead... and its a dam shame too.

Abel
September 2, 2011, 11:46 PM
Yet they were 10 for 10 when I looked at them.

Dude, whatever. I said the last GG. The last three 336's I picked up were crap too. You're not going to get me to drink the Kool-Aid.

DPris
September 3, 2011, 12:04 AM
First, review guns are not all hand selected. Pure horsepuckey.

From there, the .44 Mag 1894 I acquired about three years ago came with a shattered stock in a pristine box.
The .410 levergun I worked with a couple years back was showing decreasing fit between steel & wood.
The .357 levergun I had briefly here shortly after was so bad it was returned to Marlin unfired.

The samples I saw at the SHOT Show in Vegas this year had what looked like bubblegum filling gaps between stock & tangs. One levergun showed daylight through the gaps, they were so big. Quality of machining has also been declining.

I am not a Ruger fan looking to bash Marlins, that suggestion is absurd.
I personally am a longtime fan of Marlin leverguns, and I have four that I've spent a fair amount of money on in customising to my needs. All four are at least three years old.

Declining QC on the Marlin leverguns is a very real phenomenon, and I, for one, genuinely hope they can get their act together in the new plant.
My working centerfire leverguns are all Marlins. A smooth transition from old to new was not really expected, but it's apparently been worse than anticipated.
Denis

elano
September 3, 2011, 12:23 AM
It's rediculous to not acknowlage the decline in quality on the marlin levers. I can pick up any new marlin and tell the quality is crap just by looking at tye wood. It fits like something made in china. Gaps everywhere and nothing like my older marlins. Not even the same wood. It's like holding a cheap knockoff of an old marlin, however the price only went up while quality went down. You can't pee on me and tell me it's raining.

Mike1234567
September 3, 2011, 07:05 PM
Jeff, why so angry?

451 Detonics
September 3, 2011, 07:06 PM
ah....life on the Errornet....lol...

I am not saying anyone here just reads a rumor then passes it on as fact "because it happened to me when I bought mine" but the simple fact is that does happen more often than not on the internet. I would say if you want one go look at one and make up your own mind rather than listening to people you don't know on the biggest rumor mill in the universe.

Marlin has owned up to some issue and have suspended the manufacture of 13 of their 27 models of lever guns. They have issues related to moving and to hiring new employees...there is going to be a time period before everything meshes together again. I think Marlin would have been smarter to just start making a few models at a time rather than starting with the entire line but that is my opinion.

sansone
September 3, 2011, 07:24 PM
I have customers waiting for marlin leverguns, I have been told by 2 wholesale suppliers not to expect any this year.

Remington is doing OK with the marlin bolt guns for obvious reasons. I doubt they are willing to give up the lever market. This hiccup will pass, Remington's reputation has been tainted which explains the total stoppage of lever production.

Sure it sickens me to see this happen to a fine american manufacturer (marlin & remmington) but I expect total recovery of the leverguns next year.
For now we need to search the used market for levers and they are being horded and overpriced

DPris
September 3, 2011, 07:49 PM
Jeff,
My review gun statement was directed at Quietman's comment about review samples sent to magazines "usually" being handpicked. Not so in my experience.

ALL four of my Marlin leverguns were made at the old plant, I didn't say otherwise. The .410 that showed a bit of slippage was made at the old plant. The .357 that was returned unfired was built at the old plant. Among eight Marlin leverguns I've either owned or worked with during the past 10 years, I can trace that decline to slightly over two years ago. I've owned & used enough of 'em, and I've checked out several each year at SHOT.

The notable decline in QC at Marlin began about a year to 18 months before the closing of that old factory.
I've talked to people inside Remington about it not long after the acquisition of Marlin, they were very much aware of it, and at the meeting where the announcment was made to the employees that the plant would be shut down, one employee was overheard saying "Maybe we brought it on ourselves."

The closing of the old plant, with worn out equipment, and the opening of the production facilities at Ilion with new equipment were expected to cure the situation.

I didn't say the entire problem was centered around the new plant, far from it. Problems were expected though, anytime you start up a new factory with new equipment and totally new employees, you'd be a fool to expect perfection in product output from Day One. It just appears the transition may be a little rougher than many anticipated.

John Taffin tells me he got a report on the current plant shutdown to regroup on the QC issue, I have no reason to doubt him.
You have the Remington email listed here on the issue.

If you're on many Internet forums, you should have seen several posts about new Marlin leverguns that weren't even functional, some refusing to chamber a round.

I don't recall saying or seeing anybody else say that ALL new Marlin leverguns are total junk. In the very recent past I've advised to inspect one carefully before laying out money, I've never said "Don't buy one!"

If you've seen some that were well done, that's great. I wouldn't make disparaging comments to you when you relate your experiences, I'd appreciate the same courtesy from you.

Speaking of hand-picked samples, if those that Marlin had on display at the SHOT Show (THE industry sales convention in the US) to draw orders & generate publicity were the best Marlin was producing at the beginning of this year, the rest must be pretty sad.

Put very simply, there has been a notable decline in Marlin levergun quality, any of them made within the past two years (old plant or new) may be a gamble, it's advisable check a prospective new purchase over thoroughly in person before buying, and those of us who say this are not bashing Marlin just for fun, nor are we giving up on the company.
And, I'm not saying they're ALL junk.

If you've seen some good ones, I've seen some bad ones.
Fair enough?
Denis

stsimons
September 3, 2011, 08:00 PM
There have been some QC issues with the Marlin bolt guns too, but as a whole they are fewer than with the lever rifles. I have read numerous complaints about barrels lacking threads, rusted parts in newly purchased rifles and barrels that just won't shoot because the chamber was bored off center. (not widespread from what I can tell)

The lever action Marlin 30-30 is an American icon. I would bet that more game has been harvested in the USA with this rifle in the last 100 years than any other two rifles combined. I really hope Remington gets this worked out and can deliver the same reliability as the Marlin of old, but I remain pessimistic.

I have not been impressed at all with the newer Remingtons. My 1979 742 Remington Woodsmaster is of MUCH higher quality (ie wood quality, bluing, machined parts, etc...) than any of the Remingtons I have seen in the last 5 years... and that rifle is universally considered to be one of their worst models ever... Ironically, the finish work on that old self destructive 742 is 5X anything I have seen from Remington lately...

Asherdan
September 3, 2011, 09:56 PM
I don't understand all the hooey about this.

FACT: The production of many Marlin levergun models has been suspended in order to address build and QC issues.

You don't do that unless the product going out the door is below par for a period of time, as if it could be corrected without a shutdown, it would have been.

If the manufacturer is taking a step as drastic as stopping production for these reasons, it is then reasonable to suggest that a recent production rifle should be bought only after putting your hands on it.

I hope they get it right and start producing my favourite leveraction rifles again.

I also wish I could find a rack full of good ones to inspect that had an 1894CB 45LC in it because, darn it, I want one.

Last thing, the shutting down of production means those griping about a decline in quality were right. Otherwise, I'd have my 1894CB 45LC already.

Badlander
September 4, 2011, 10:56 AM
I looked at A new 336 Youth model yesterday. The stock stood 1/4" proud of the metal was so big I could barely get my hand around it. Looks like hell!!!

Asherdan
September 4, 2011, 02:25 PM
You need to go find that magical gun rack that has all the good ones!

Abel
September 4, 2011, 02:29 PM
I don't understand all the hooey about this.

FACT: The production of many Marlin levergun models has been suspended in order to address build and QC issues.

You don't do that unless the product going out the door is below par for a period of time, as if it could be corrected without a shutdown, it would have been.


Oh, but everything is fine.

You need to go find that magical gun rack that has all the good ones!

Too funny.

AethelstanAegen
September 4, 2011, 03:16 PM
I don't understand all the hooey about this.

The hooey is because Jeff56 has long demonstrated that he likes to get into arguments with people on this forum, so I long ago learned to ignore him. I have decided for sure to not pick up a Marlin Guide Gun until I hear the QC issues are actually resolved (and Jeff56, despite whatever fantasy world you're living, it's clear Marlin is having QC issues). I may look into the Rossi lever in .45/70 but no one seems to have at the moment (so other rifles on the desired list will take precedence).

quietman
September 4, 2011, 03:32 PM
It's common to say that you only hear about the bad after a purchase. Not what I was talking about. If you notice, I was talking about existing Marlin owners going into a store to buy another gun.

Peruse MO forum and you'll find a bunch of them.

As for going down a row of guns in a store, I'd be curious as to what the serial numbers were. As DPris pointed out, there has been a continuous slide in Marlin quality. Mostly since Freedom Group purchased them. (which fits with his time frame of quality slipping). Lot's of info on how the production philosophy changed after Remington took over from both ex Marlin engineers and employees at Marlin Owners.

How bad is it? The moderators at MO created a rant forum that you have to be a registered member to see because they didn't want to be accused of bad mouthing Marlin.

It's easy to blow it off if you haven't been around people seeing what's going on.

I kept track of people that decided to buy a new Marlin Express rifle that were already on the forum so it wouldn't be a case of only hearing from someone joining to complain.

This means the person made a decision, bought a rifle, then reported the results after the purchase. With a ME rifle 92 serial numbers it was running about 1 in 3 being so bad they had to go back to the factory with the 338. The 308 wasn't too bad. With the 91 series it's been OVER 50%. And the 308MX problems jumped to close to the 338 problems.

Some got their 91 serial number replaced with a new "Remlin" rifle made in Ilion. None of the Remlin replacements have been of good quality. In fact, 2 were so bad, the owners sent them back and requested a refund.

Several people have had their rifles at the Remington repair facility for more than 6 months. A couple for almost a year. Can't get a repair date.

And DPris, usually does not mean always. And hand selected does not mean customizing or being worked over before mailing out, it means grabbing the best looking, smoothest operating one out of a set of production rifles.

To Jeff56. There have been a couple minor issues with the semi auto rimfires, but they seem to be no worse in number than before. It's the centerfire lever guns that are having most of the issues. Curious what the first 2 digits of the serial number on your 3 marlins were.

slowr1der
September 4, 2011, 03:38 PM
The problem listening to Jeff56 is that he changes his mind every week. Just a month or two ago he was on here telling us of all the problems he'd had with his Marlins, and that 3 of his 3 rimfires were broken at the time. Then he tried to use Marlins customer support, and got treated horribly. After posting online for everyone to see, he finally got a call from someone higher up willing to help him. Now, after they helped him, suddenly Marlin isn't having any quality issues, and that he has never had any "problems like that" with them.

I'm glad he got taken care of, but it should have been taken care of the first time he called and he shouldn't have had to post online about it to get it taken care of. This seems similar to how Bushnell operates. They offer horrible service to many, and then when someone posts online about it, it seems like it's often that a rep contacts them and works out something with them. This is great, but what about the guys who don't post online, or have time to sit there fussing on the phone until they finally get a supervisor to call back? I just don't think you should have to jump through the hoops they are making you, and the product should have worked in the first place.

A member of another forum I'm on is this way about Remingtons. He refuses to admit that they have any quality issues, or customer service issues. He claims everything else is junk. He bought a Marlin recently and had many of the same issues that everyone posts about, so now he has changed his tune to how Marlin's quality is horrible, but he insists it's not Remingtons fault, and that Remington is going to fix Marlins quality issues. I fail to see how people can be this naive, and I hope they don't truly believe this stuff.

slowr1der
September 4, 2011, 03:39 PM
BTW anyone that wants to see Jeff56's opinion on Marlin a couple of months ago check out this thread.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=602940

Abel
September 4, 2011, 04:01 PM
Jeff56 wrote:

I don't want to argue about this. I just feel people should know about the issue. I apologize to anyone I might have swayed into buying a Marlin. They aren't what they used to be.

That there is funny stuff, I don't keer who ya are.

AEA
September 4, 2011, 04:17 PM
1895GS - Canted front sight - fixed with Ultra Dot.
Most screw heads buggered up.
Wood to metal fit sucks!
Very "crunchy" lever action. Dry cycled about 300 times and got a bit better.
At least I can use it with the Ultra Dot. I can see the front sight off to the right of the barrel center line thru the Ultra Dot.

I did not send it back because I was afraid of what I might get back in return!

DPris
September 4, 2011, 06:06 PM
Quietman,
I agree with you on the rest of your points, but still not on the hand selected.
In 21 years of getting review samples, I've gotten several guns from several makers that were so bad they were returned & the articles cancelled.

I'm not talking about customizing or being worked over, either.
That includes Remington (2), Marlin (1), Smith & Wesson (2), Nighthawk (1), ArmaLite (2), Chaparral (1), Rock River (1), and so on.

Others have come through here with minor, but obvious, irregularities that should have been caught at the factory before going out to anybody, writer or customer, but weren't bad enough to derail the article completely.

This "handpicked writer's sample" stuff may occur, but it's far from the norm in my personal experience. :)
Denis

quietman
September 5, 2011, 01:05 PM
That's ok DPris, we can agree that we disagree and move on;)

I own a 338MX that had to go back to the factory twice before the move. I wound up "talking" to the service manager through e-mail. Once the plant was moved and he was laid off, he told me things he wouldn't say before.

My rifle went back the first time because it would not feed rounds from the magazine. It would jam every time. I got it back and it fed easily, but after about 15 rounds, it took 2 hands to eject the spent casing. Contacted them, and back it went again.

The manager had been the one that worked on it the first time. He apologized profusely and installed a big loop lever for free that I wanted to have installed. After Marlin moved told me Remington had changed the procedure in the shop. Prior to the FG purchase he said it was common practice to put as much as an entire box of ammo through a rifle that had been worked on before returning it to the owner. Remington came in and told them they were to limit their testing to 3-5 rounds. If he'd been under old rules, he'd have found the other problem before sending it back the first time.

He also told me that Remington changed the test firing of new rifles at Marlin from 4-5 rounds to ONE round. So no more roughing in the sight alignment. No more finding cycling problems or sight issues. Just stick a round in, pull the trigger and shove it in a box.

This was one of many changes instituted by Remington's "Six Sigma" program to improve efficiency, but all at the price of quality.

DenaliPark
September 6, 2011, 02:41 AM
Ooop's, I just purchased a Marlin 1895GBL 45/70...Are these on the damn list, and what are the major issues I need to look for, exactly? :)

quietman
September 6, 2011, 11:56 AM
Common issues
1. Canted sights
2. Cycling issues- numerous causes seen in this. From gritty levers to hammers not aligned properly.
3. Wood to metal fit. You don't want a sloppy fit on a 45/70 or the recoil will cause the stock to shift and cause flyers on a regular basis.
4. Make sure you don't have an "extra" dovetail in the bottom of the barrel. Remington tried pushing some guide guns out the door using barrels cut down from a normal 1895. The dovetail slot for the hanger you attach the end cap to is in a different position. So Remlin just cut a new dovetail and the original dovetail could be seen in front of the forend. Supposedly, most of these were sent back by the distributors with a "What Are You Thinking?" message to Remlin. Some got through because a couple people at MO got one (and wound up sending it back)
5. Lousy checkering.

Less frequent problems
1. barrel not square to receiver. If this is the case you will not be able to zero it with a receiver mounted sight like a peep or scope. (Shoots up to 4 FEET low at 100 yards with scope elevation maxed out) This has affected the Marlin Express series the most, but has cropped up in a couple other models. (In the ME it would be a very common issue)
2. Firing pin striking way off center.

Rare issues
1. MISSING sights- yes one guy at MO got a new one with a sight missing.
2. A dealer was shipped a new 30-30 with no rifling in the barrel

Issues you can easily fix yourself
1. Heavy trigger pull, some of the new ones are running into the 7-8 lb range. Easily fixed with a visit to Marlin owners gunsmithing section or a Wild West Happy Trigger.
2. Poorly cut barrel channel putting too much pressure on one side of the barrel (This is an issue that pops up with some rifles going way back, I fixed a 70's model with this issue for a friend). Takes a couple of dowels and some sandpaper to fix.

AethelstanAegen
September 6, 2011, 02:39 PM
It really is too bad. For a long time Marlin had a great record for quality but that is clearly over with for now. Those are some serious errors for which there is really no excuse except indifference to customers by the company. I hope after the shut down they'll turn things around.

DenaliPark
September 6, 2011, 06:54 PM
So who's handling their warranty issues? They've laid off their entire production staff, that sounds a lot like they are closing down for good!

DenaliPark
September 6, 2011, 08:09 PM
I can't stand this anymore. You have no idea that this is the case. I've asked two different gun shop owners / operators in the past week if they've had issues with their Marlins. None. I inspected more Marlins. No problems. "Common problems"???? Yeah right. But I managed to get 3 excellent models in a row during the time they were supposed to have "common issues". Go ahead and bash me for not jumping on the bashing bandwagon. I've got the rifles to prove otherwise. Go ahead and make false allegations against me. I'm not the one leading newbies astray.

Do you know what it means for me to have gotten 3 good rifles during this period of supposed "junk" Marlins? Do you know anything about statistics? Try flipping a coin and see how often you get 3 heads in a row or 3 tails in a row. There's a scientifically defined level at which things are considered significant based on the odds. 3 in a row is possibly just good luck. But I've observed far more than that. I inspected about 15 rilfes including the 3 I bought. Not one of them have the problems described as "common" here. The odds of that happening even if just half of the Marlins had problems are in the hundreds of millions to one at least. If you don't believe me read up on statistics and probability for yourself on this web page (http://www.fourmilab.ch/rpkp/experiments/statistics.html).

Bash away folks. You can't argue with statistics even though you want to really bad. And my sample is really not limited to my experience. I've included the experience of two shop operators. Your cheap shots don't trump science.

Do I think there are some problems? Yes I do. Do I think they're "common"? Not a chance in a hundred million (probably much higher but I'm not wading through the formulas for an exact answer so I'm giving a conservative estimate).
Newbies? You just joined up six months previously, you're a newbie!

HGM22
September 6, 2011, 09:30 PM
Any idea if the rimfire rifles are having any issues? I've heard the dovetails on the 795 have been cut sloppy, but I thought that was at the old factory. Has this been fixed with new tooling at the new factory?

Gordon
September 6, 2011, 09:45 PM
"I've gotten several guns from several makers that were so bad they were returned & the articles cancelled."
Why I cancelled all my gun mag subscriptions. I don't consider that honest journalism.
Isn't the parent company that owns Rem. et al a company that has a history of liquidation? Just saying.. Maybe we can make adeal with China for more loans if we move gun production over there, Norinco used to make some decent stuff! :(

DenaliPark
September 6, 2011, 09:48 PM
"I've gotten several guns from several makers that were so bad they were returned & the articles cancelled."
Why I cancelled all my gun mag subscriptions. I don't consider that honest journalism.
Isn't the parent company that owns Rem. et al a company that has a history of liquidation? Just saying.. Maybe we can make adeal with China for more loans if we move gun production over there, Norinco used to make some decent stuff! :(
What I'd like to know, is who is handling warranty issues? Apparently Marlin is out of business, must be Remington...

AethelstanAegen
September 6, 2011, 09:52 PM
Jeff56, you're not going to impress with me with your Stat 101 knowledge of statistics. I'm very familiar with statistics and have taken years of classes...so you didn't dazzle me with the coin toss example. The fact that I would spend $500 on a gun and be flipping a coin at all on quality (regardless of how biased the result may be to one side or the other) just doesn't sit well with me. I'm not saying every Marlin is a piece of junk, but there's no doubt that they've been having some greater than usual problems with their QC. I'll be happy to buy one in the future once it seems like things are running normally again but until then, I have other firearms I'm interested in buying that don't carry as a great a chance of getting a dud.

DPris
September 7, 2011, 02:30 AM
Gordon,
Not to contribute unduly to a side excursion into gunmag bashing, but regardless of your feelings the fact remains that print space is extremely valuable, and editors very simply will not waste it in writing up a POS.

If a given gun is totally unworkable, the article's just cancelled. If it has the odd flaw here or there, that's life & it's not enough to remove the gun from a projected issue.
There's nothing dishonest about it whatever.

But, you have my permission to never read another gun magazine in your entire life.

And now- back to the subject at hand. :)
Denis

slowr1der
September 7, 2011, 11:22 AM
I think your post a few months ago saying that all three of your Marlins were broken was enough evidence for me where their quality is.

The problem is no one can believe anything you say because your story changes monthly if not weekly. It's not that I want to doubt you, but you are acting like everyone else that has had bad experiences with Marlins, is lying, when you yourself had problems with all 3 of yours a few months ago, and now are saying that they have been great and have good quality, and that anyone who doubts the quality is just spreading rumors they know nothing about.

I'm a big Marlin fan, but the quality seems to have taken a steep decline since Remington took them over. This doesn't surprise me either, since Remington quality has been declining for several years now. I hoped they wouldn't do the same to Marlin, but I can't say I didn't expect it.

AethelstanAegen
September 7, 2011, 03:13 PM
Jeff56, I'm not going to argue with you over the stats (and yes there are flaws in the sample you collected and I don't think I'm smarter than you but I do think you underestimated everyone else's intelligence here by thinking you were going to dazzle us with a small sample and the "magical" word statistics) and I'm very glad that in your area you've been able to find good Marlins. I'm looking in my area to see if I can find a new one. I'm certainly not going to buy one online, sight unseen as the risk of a nightmare gun is too high for me. I don't think anyone was saying every Marlin gun is crap, they were just pointing out there have been terrible foul-ups recently and so the odds of getting a dud are much higher than before.

I understand what you're saying though, that often problems are blown out of proportion on the internet because you hear about the 10 guns that went wrong but not the 1000s that were spot on. That said the nature of the problems seems far more wide spread than a few repeated instances and Marlin itself has shut down production to deal with the QC issues. I hope they succeed and once their back up and running, I'll be glad to purchase one and let people know Marlin is the bees-knees, until then, I'm going to buy something else on my wish list. In the future though, express your opinion but don't take it as a personal attack. You've derailed many threads in the past with that. No one's ever going to give you a prize for being right or winning the thread battle on the internet. Enjoy your nicely functioning Marlins, I hope to join you as a proud Marlin owner in the future, but I don't see that happening right now unless I can find a used or nice example in my area (which doesn't happen much here).

Mods: Please close the thread, I'm the original OP and my question has been answered and the thread is spiralling into an ego battle (which we don't need on THR). Thanks!

Asherdan
September 7, 2011, 03:29 PM
Well, all I have to add from my limited understanding of statistics is that my chances of getting a new 1894CB 45LC are now zero. So are my chances of getting a poor one, so I got that going for me.

See, it's one of the thirteen lever action models they aren't producing for the rest of this year.

Also, it would be good to keep in mind that the situation with Marlin's rimfire, center fire bolt and lever action lines are different. While the rimfire and centerire bolt production seems to be doing OK, the leveractions are the segment having issues. In discussion it would pay to remember those distinctions.

AethelstanAegen
September 7, 2011, 05:23 PM
Asherdan, is right, it does seem to be limited to the leveractions and I suspect it's only the centerfire lever guns. Unfortunately, the rifle I've been hoping for is one of those leveractions. I frankly am glad they've shut down production for the rest of the year to correct the problem. I'm guessing they'll come out the other end with better trained staff and top notch leveractions again.

Sam1911
September 7, 2011, 05:46 PM
Mods: Please close the thread, I'm the original OP and my question has been answered and the thread is spiralling into an ego battle (which we don't need on THR). Thanks!

Amen! This has been pathetic. Wish for once in the big wide errornet we'd learn to say, "This is what I saw," and let the next guy say what HE saw, and accept that there are many points of data.

Arguing that your point of data is more data-ful than someone else's point of data makes us look kinda stupid.

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