For those who reload for the .357 Magnum...


PDA






Josh45
September 4, 2011, 02:06 AM
Hello everyone, Have a question regarding .357 Magnums and a set of Lee Deluxe 4- Die set.

Mainly regarding the last die, The FCD. When I try to roll crimp on the bullet, I notice it tends the make the case bell out some in the middle of the case.

The bullets I am using are Berrys 158 GR FP. The roll crimp comes out fine on some and some look like it isn't there unless you look for it. I have tried to adjust more and then less. It sometimes does it with a light roll crimp and sometimes it does it with the heavy roll crimp.

It doesn't happen to all the cases. Just sometimes. Out of 10, I will get 4-5. I had made some rounds previous to those and had the same issue. I had gotten to shoot them today and it was fine. Nothing happened.

The charge was at 11.0 GR of 2400. OAL 1.590. What could cause the belling of the case towards the middle of the case?

Any more info needed, Let me know

If you enjoyed reading about "For those who reload for the .357 Magnum..." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Lost Sheep
September 4, 2011, 02:16 AM
I was under the impression that the FCD has a sizing ring that is supposed to alleviate these variations. The sizing ring makes the outer diameter of the cartridge case uniform as it is withdrawn from the FCD. In this way any bulging due to over-crimping or oversized bullets is smoothed back out.

Perhaps I misunderstand the question?

My first thought is that your cartridge case length may be too variable.

Good Luck. I will think on it some more.

Lost Sheep

Steve C
September 4, 2011, 02:28 AM
The bulge you are seeing at the middle of the case is likely caused by the bullet. I believe Berrys bullets are sized the same as cast bullets at .358 diameter. As they don't have a crimping groove or cannelur to receive the crimp your options are to crimp into the side of the bullet or over the forward shoulder. Forcing the case mouth into the bullet side also applies downward pressure on the case and bullet. The good thing is the post sizing ring of the FC die will make sure that the case is within maximum SAAMI standards and the return stroke will "size out" any bulges that are too big and would interfere with cambering.

jimbob123
September 4, 2011, 02:31 AM
Josh sounds to me you are putting to much crimp on them.berrys bullets dont have a canalure like jacketed or a crimp groove like a lead bullet.to crimp on a copper bullet without a canalure you need to remove the bell from the case and force the case against the bullet to hold it tight but you have to carefull not to over do it.lots of people use a taper die for berrys bullets.a roll crimp is not the best for jacketed bullets without a cannalure.your load sounds a little warm also for berrys bullets.i would be concerned about bullet jump from recoil Good luck jimbob

Josh45
September 4, 2011, 04:13 AM
Thanks for the information guys. I shot some earlier today and looked at the cases, All seems to be fine. Of course, Knowing there plated, I stay on the low side.

Being there magnum loads, I figured a good roll crimp was needed. I know it has no cannelure and I can damage the plating. Im trying not to do that. I think I need to readjust and go from there.

Ill give this a go tomorrow...

Miata Mike
September 4, 2011, 06:17 AM
I am loading lead bullets in .38 and .357 and skipped the final "factory crimp"
die so far.

357 Terms
September 4, 2011, 07:01 AM
I have never loaded 357 bullets that did NOT have a cannelure so I can't say for sure but; I have always thought that if there was no cannelure that a taper crimp was best. I might be wrong?

Walkalong
September 4, 2011, 08:34 AM
I would get a Redding or Lee Taper crimp only die and use it instead of roll crimping plated bullets. Deburr and chamfer the cases, so you won't be crimping a sharp edge into the bullet. I trim all my .357 brass for a consistent crimp, but many folks do not trim. Taper crimps are a lot more forgiving of case length.

bluetopper
September 4, 2011, 08:51 AM
"your load sounds a little warm also for berrys bullets.i would be concerned about bullet jump from recoil "



Sounds a little warm? Max load of 2400 is 15gr in all data I can see.
Good luck.

GP100man
September 4, 2011, 08:58 AM
Josh , agreed that case length sounds to be your problem .

If useing mixed cases it can vary widely, I seen 1.290" - 1.265" from factory 1st firing !

I generally trimm to 1.280 ,the shorter stuff gets trimmed to 1.265 for the longer 358429 Lyman boolit .

Back to your problem , Yes the copper "jackets" can be cut by excessive crimping , it`s from .003-.007" thick & kinda soft for copper .

Be aware though the deeper ya go into the taper the smaller it is & can actually resize the bullet enuff as when with drawn it`ll actually be looser than a slight roll crimp.

When I first read your post I thought you were talking `bout seeing the base of the bullet bulging the case. This will vary also as some cases are thicker & even the inside taper to the case head varies & us revolver loaders only work with outside deminsions .

Wanted to add : `bout 1100fps is all the Jackets can stand , after that they fair purty ruff !

Be Safe !!!

Walkalong
September 4, 2011, 09:09 AM
The only way a taper crimp can hurt is if it is way, way, over done.

ljnowell
September 4, 2011, 09:29 AM
The only way a taper crimp can hurt is if it is way, way, over done.

I need to get my camera and dig up some old 38s I have somewhere. I once bought a second hand M10 S&W from a guy for 100 bucks. He told me "Heck I will even throw in the rounds that are in it! They are FBI loads." I just said, sure ok. I had no intention of shooting this reloads, but figured, hey, its some free primed cases and bullets to use. When I got them home and looked they were so overcrimped that there was almost 1/16" of case "smooshed" into the bullet and flattened. Its kind of hard to describe but it was the worst case of over taper crimping I had ever seen. If I can dig them up I will post a pic.

Walkalong
September 4, 2011, 09:47 AM
Anything can be over done. I have seen some roll crimps way over done as well. Both are bad. I would like to see those pics. :)

Josh45
September 4, 2011, 12:53 PM
Im pretty sure these are over done then....Not by a huge margin but enough to say you need to back it down.

As for the cases, On both loads, They were all same headstamps. I will be honest, I do not trim pistol brass. I think that chamfer and deburr might still be a good idea tho..

Okay, Ill give them a crimp enough to remove belling and just a tad for roll. I have no taper crimp die at the moment so I think this would be a good way to stop this problem.

I had no problem with shooting then and the bulge in the case towards the middle did leave when I had resized them.

ArchAngelCD
September 5, 2011, 01:44 AM
Josh, It sounds like your crimp dis is adjusted too deep but like said above, the FCD is supposed to prevent that.

gamestalker
September 5, 2011, 02:19 AM
The first step to alevieviating the issue is trimming all the cases to the same length. The only way to obtain consistent crimps is to get the brass all the same length, that is unless you are extremely familar with the process to such extent, you can actually feel when your there. Even a difference of .001" - .002" is going to have a major impact on the depth of the crimp. Some being too shallow, and other's that are collasping the wall of the case. So once your brass is all the same length, you'll be able to quickly adjust the die to produce the correct crimp depth , and then wiz right through without futher frustration or questionable crimps. Crimping will be a consistent and near perfect process and product. I'll admit, I sometimes get lazy and don't feel like trimming brass that is in need of a touch up trim, so I'll crimp by touch. If you focus on the feeling of a cartridge when it's crimped properly, primmed, resized, or any of the necessary steps, you'll develope a good feel for the press in general.
But for now, just trim and pay attention to how things feel, it will help you to spot general issues much quicker, and with a better understanding of the physics of each step.

Walkalong
September 5, 2011, 10:56 AM
Josh, It sounds like your crimp dis is adjusted too deep but like said above, the FCD is supposed to prevent that.
The FCD roll crimps like any other die, except for the fact that the part that does the crimping has some wiggle room because of the o-ring. That makes it a little bit tolerant of varied case lengths, but it only has so much flex.

The Redding taper crimp only die will work on untrimmed brass. The angle is so slight it is very tolerant of varying case lengths. I still trim my .357 Mag brass though, even for loads that will get a taper crimp.

If you enjoyed reading about "For those who reload for the .357 Magnum..." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!