Need a versatile .44Mag powder


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gofastman
September 4, 2011, 12:44 PM
I hear H110 is the powder for top end 44mag loads, however it doesnt like to be downloaded.
Is there a powder out there that is a bit more friendly for MIN loads, yet still provides some thump when needed?
pehaps AA#9?

I plan on geting some Titegroup for .44spl loads

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rcmodel
September 4, 2011, 01:17 PM
Alliant 2400 is pretty hard to beat for any Magnum loads if you don't want or need the extra 75 FPS H110/W296 can give you.

It doesn't need Magnum primers it light it off like the ball powders.
And it can be down-loaded safely to some extent.

If you want mid-range loads in the +/- 1,000 FPS range try Alliant Unique.
It works just peachy keen in .44 Spl too!

rc

CraigC
September 4, 2011, 01:34 PM
A feller could get through life just fine with Unique and 2400!

gofastman
September 4, 2011, 01:49 PM
is Unique more or less the couterpart to Titegroup?

gamestalker
September 4, 2011, 01:54 PM
+1 RCmodel!! 2400 is deffinitely one of, if not the most, versatile powder for magnum hand cannon's. I think you can load it with a standard primer too. H110/296 require a magnum primer, I know from experience.
If you want the remaining power your magnum offer's, then H110 or 296 are the ticket. But they are rather finicky about how much powder you use and require a magnum primer to light them up. In that regard I've found that only near maximum, or maximum charges will perform consistently.

Josh45
September 4, 2011, 01:54 PM
Im not loading .44 but I am loading .357 and so far, I have shot about 20 rounds of .357 using 2400.

I like it. It doesn't kick as hard as I thought it would. I was using low end data for that matter. Although......I did get some unburnt powder.

BBDartCA
September 4, 2011, 01:59 PM
I don't know about downloaded performance, but AA#9 seems to not get a real complete burn when loaded on the minimum side. Lots of what appears to be unburnt powder. When loaded to the max it seems to burn cleaner / more completely.

gofastman
September 4, 2011, 02:16 PM
ok so 2400 it is.

now, how 'bout Titegroup vs Unique in 44spl?
Id like to get a big ol chunk of lead moving at a relatively low speed for target practice, I was thinking a 250gr wadcutter at around the 700fps mark, a wanna-be .45colt if you will

CraigC
September 4, 2011, 04:10 PM
Titegroup is more efficient, Unique is more filling. Both are excellent. TG is my close #3 behind 2400 and Unique.

zxcvbob
September 4, 2011, 04:31 PM
Try Herco and 240 grain cast bullets.

Mr.Revolverguy
September 4, 2011, 04:39 PM
2400 but I am surprised no one mentioned Universal Clays.

GooseGestapo
September 4, 2011, 06:27 PM
TightGroup is closer to Bullseye in burning speed characteristics.
I haven't been pleased with T-G. I've burned too many pounds of Bullseye to care for T-G. If forced to replace Bullseye it would be with #231. The difference is that I prefer clean scores to a clean bore.

#231 comes close to Unique for flexible usage. Universal is so close to Unique that they are almost interchangeable. Unique is a tad bulkier than Universal, however.

I load far more Unique/Universal in the .44mag and .45lc than #2400. I seldom "need' that much powder.

I haven't burn any H110 in a .44 or .45 since the late '70's. Just don't need THAT much POWER.

A 250-300gr handgun bullet at 850-1,000fps is enough. If I need more, I'll take a rifle, thankyou!

bgr2014
September 4, 2011, 06:30 PM
Don't know about down loading 2400 but it's my choice for full blown loads. Use 22.5gr behind a Speer 240gr half jacket takes a deer down with authurity. Don't use this load in anything but a Ruger Super Blackhawk, will make double actions like S&W 29 side plates stick out. Put a muzzlebreak on mine so I can shoot out of blind window without ripping off the scope. Just shoot 44 spec. rounds to get less recoil.

Walkalong
September 4, 2011, 06:33 PM
+1 for W-231 over TG.

buck460XVR
September 4, 2011, 06:41 PM
I use Unique, IMR4227 and H110/W296 in my .44s....revolvers and carbines. They do all I ever need to have done.

glockky
September 4, 2011, 09:44 PM
W231 will give you 1200f.p.s with a 240LSWC or you can load it down to targer velocities. I personally like AA#9 for my hot 357 and 44 loads but also use 296.

ColtPythonElite
September 4, 2011, 09:52 PM
Unique works for me. I get 1100+ fps out of cast 240's with good accuracy and no leading using 9.5 grains.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=148569&stc=1&d=1315183941

56hawk
September 4, 2011, 09:56 PM
+1 RCmodel!! 2400 is deffinitely one of, if not the most, versatile powder for magnum hand cannon's. I think you can load it with a standard primer too. H110/296 require a magnum primer, I know from experience.
If you want the remaining power your magnum offer's, then H110 or 296 are the ticket. But they are rather finicky about how much powder you use and require a magnum primer to light them up. In that regard I've found that only near maximum, or maximum charges will perform consistently.

Sorry about going slightly off topic, but I am wondering about the need for magnum primers. I load H110 in 30 carbine, 357 Magnum, 44 Magnum, and 500 S&W. I have never used a magnum primer and have never had any problems.

To answer the original question though, Unique isn't too bad. Great for light loads, but I would go with H110 if you want the maximum.

RalphS
September 4, 2011, 10:44 PM
I tested H-110 with both regular primers and magnum primers over a chronograph. The results were almost identical. The magnum primer loads were 1% faster than the regular primers.

IMO, magnum primers should be labeled "cold weather primers". I live in Florida and tested in hot weather.

Maybe there is a difference in cold weather. It would be interesting if someone in the North would test them in cold weather.

Just to be safe, I develop my magnum loads using magnum primers because they are a little hotter but I wouldn't hesitate to use regular primers with H-110.

Eb1
September 4, 2011, 10:51 PM
I use three powders for .44 Magnum.

For jacketed magnum loads it is 2400. i.e. 240 grain XTP
For lead magnum loads up to 1300 to 1350 I use IMR 4227 with a 240 LSWC.
I also use Unique for Beartooth and MCB lead loadings to around 1150 fps.

2400 is working better for me with jacketed bullets. Unique is very good for your medium loads. IMR 4227 gives the best performance with LSWC from MCB Company.

These are out of a 5 1/2" Super BlackHawk rounded trigger guard model with Hogue Mono grips.

Kevin Rohrer
September 5, 2011, 09:49 AM
Colt: I see you are shooting an Anaconda. I am looking to get a .44mag, but want one that will take a steady diet of full-power loads w/o a problem.

Do you feel your pistol will stand-up to lots of full-power loads w/o loosening up?

joed
September 5, 2011, 11:03 AM
There were 2 powders that I've used for revolvers for years, 2400 and Unique. Soon as I tried 2400 I quit buying H110 it's just more versatile. Unique works good for light to medium loads and I used it for quite a few years.

The last 3 years I quit Unique and went to Universal and Power Pistol. For some reason my Dillon powder measure doesn't like Unique. Don't know why but I've left it for that reason.

zxcvbob
September 5, 2011, 11:58 AM
There were 2 powders that I've used for revolvers for years, 2400 and Unique. Soon as I tried 2400 I quit buying H110 it's just more versatile. Unique works good for light to medium loads and I used it for quite a few years.

The last 3 years I quit Unique and went to Universal and Power Pistol. For some reason my Dillon powder measure doesn't like Unique. Don't know why but I've left it for that reason.

Try WSF. It has the same burn rate as Herco (between Unique and Power Pistol) and it measures like 231. There is very little load data for it; use Herco data, just don't get crazy with it in case it's not a perfect match -- but it seems to be an exact match, according to my chronograph.

bluetopper
September 5, 2011, 12:38 PM
2400 has been the standard 44 Magnum powder for 50+ years.
Accurate 4100, less known but performs at least as well. Both offer excellent accuracy and no magnum primer required.

billyjoe
September 5, 2011, 01:46 PM
I use alliant 2400 in most of my .44 loads from plinking loads with 200gr plinking loads to 255gr keith loads for hunting. I use standard primers with it and have no problems with uniformity in my loads. If i want to load up 300gr bullets for serious work then i pull out the w296 and magnum primers. Blue dot is also a good .44 mag powder for medium loads but i choose to just stick with two powders to keep my powder selection consolidated.

daorhgih
September 5, 2011, 02:06 PM
Does Taurus make any reliable revolvers that will handle these aforementioned loadings?? Thanks. DAO

bluetopper
September 5, 2011, 07:23 PM
The Raging Bull series of revolvers are far and away the best and stoutest revolving pistols Taurus has made. How much of an endorsement that is, I'll let you be the judge.

gofastman
September 5, 2011, 07:58 PM
Does Taurus make any reliable revolvers that will handle these aforementioned loadings?? Thanks. DAO
this thread is in regard to a .44 Raging Bull I just got.
Ill let you know if I blow it up :D

gofastman
September 10, 2011, 08:27 PM
can I get a 300gr xtp moving around 1300fps (or more) with 2400? without blowing up my gun that is...

anyone have load data for this?

zxcvbob
September 10, 2011, 09:16 PM
If the gun has a long barrel, yes. 17.0 grains of 2400 should give you just over 1300 fps with that bullet, and it will slightly exceed SAAMI specs but well under CIP specs. Use at your own risk. Work up to it and stop if you get sticky extractions or blown primers, etc. Use regular LP primers.

W296 or H110 would be a better choice for this project (with magnum primers), even if 2400 is a better all-around powder.

TooManyToys
September 10, 2011, 09:56 PM
Plus 1 for IMR 4227 !
A good preformer with comfortable recoil, even with full house loads it doesn't have the sharp, gun beating recoil that some other powders do.

gofastman
September 10, 2011, 11:32 PM
delete

gofastman
September 10, 2011, 11:48 PM
delete

zxcvbob
September 11, 2011, 12:13 AM
H110 and W296 are the same powder. Perhaps they were once different, or perhaps it was just lot-to-lot variations, but they both come out of the same hopper how -- so get whichever is a little cheaper the day you buy it. No need to buy both.

sweater914
September 11, 2011, 12:21 AM
My practice load in .44Mag is 7.5gr Unique using a 240gr SWC about 1000fps, and a pleasant round to shoot and no sore hands afterword. Unique isn't to dirty in this application.

In .44Spl 6.0gr Power Pistol using the same 240gr SWC, feels like a .38Spl in my 7.5in Redhawk.

gofastman
September 11, 2011, 01:10 PM
If the gun has a long barrel, yes. 17.0 grains of 2400 should give you just over 1300 fps with that bullet
its a 6.5", will that cut it?

zxcvbob
September 11, 2011, 04:57 PM
its a 6.5", will that cut it?

Probably. Try it and see! (what's magic about 1300?)

gofastman
September 11, 2011, 07:38 PM
Probably. Try it and see! (what's magic about 1300?)
its easy to say ;)

nothing specifically important about 1300fps, but I got the Raging Bull because I have read its built like a tank (looks/feels like one)
and I'd like to push things a bit, withing safe limits of course.

Hornady moves their 300gr ammo at 1150fps.
in my limited experience, big name American ammo makers load on the light side

MovedWest
September 11, 2011, 08:59 PM
Alliant 2400 is pretty hard to beat for any Magnum loads if you don't want or need the extra 75 FPS H110/W296 can give you.

It doesn't need Magnum primers it light it off like the ball powders.
And it can be down-loaded safely to some extent.

If you want mid-range loads in the +/- 1,000 FPS range try Alliant Unique.
It works just peachy keen in .44 Spl too!

rc
+1 for all of this.

-MW

CraigC
September 11, 2011, 10:00 PM
My practice load in .44Mag is 7.5gr Unique using a 240gr SWC about 1000fps...
I doubt it's runing that fast. That's the classic Skeeter load and it only runs 950fps in Special cases. Probably more like 850-900fps.

gofastman
September 15, 2011, 07:44 PM
I was doing a little reading and found some people have metering problems with Unique.

how hard is it to meter? I use a Lee Perfect Powder Measure

Hunt480
September 15, 2011, 07:56 PM
It don't meter well at all,but unique shoots accurate in anything I load it in. I always use a trickled loads when I'm loading for hunting anyway.

gofastman
September 15, 2011, 08:07 PM
OK, well easy metering is high on my priority list.

whats a good substitute for Unique?
Again, this is my goal for it:
Id like to get a big ol chunk of lead moving at a relatively low speed for target practice, I was thinking a 250gr wadcutter at around the 700fps mark, a wanna-be .45colt if you will

quiet and low flash is good too, i want something e-a-s-y to shoot when i choose to shoot .44 Spl

ColtPythonElite
September 15, 2011, 08:23 PM
Unique meters well enough. I have two different powder measures. Each will throw +/- a tenth of a grain.

Eb1
September 15, 2011, 11:19 PM
meters fine. I use it with scoops and a trickle, or you just fined what weight your gun likes, and cut a case to size, and use it as a dipper with a used primer in the primer hole. That is the way I charge my 9mm with Unique. Just a fired case cut to size with a braised/soldered handle. Quick and easy. Maybe that will work for you.

Find the powder charge, mark the case, cut or grind. Bingo! No need to weigh again.

ArchAngelCD
September 15, 2011, 11:32 PM
IMO 2400, AA#9 and 4227 are all more flexible than W296/H110. Pick the one you can find in the store and go with it...

CraigC
September 16, 2011, 12:20 AM
Only metering issue I have with Unique is in charges of 6.0gr or less. Which is where Titegroup comes in.

Jitterbug
September 16, 2011, 10:37 AM
I had read how great a powder Unique is but that it meters lousy and bought a pound of 231 at the same time just in case. No biggie both will get used up quickly and I want to try them in some other calibers too.

While not as precise as 231, Unique meters ok from my RCBS Powder measure, within +/- .2 grains. While 231 will meter within +/- .1 grains.

Recently I clocked a 240 gr. LSWC @ 892 fps with 7.5 gr. of Unique in a 4" 629 with Magnum cases. 7.0 grains of 231 gave me 826 fps, I'm still fiddling with both powders and haven't settled on any accuracy loads yet. But one or the other will fit the bill for an plinker load.

I'm revisiting reloading for the .44 Magnum after an 18 year hiatus and have some Hercules 2400, H-110 and AA9 on hand, all at least 18 years old. I talked with Alliant and Accurate Arms and they both told me that if it was well stored and had not degraded that it should still be good and I can use current data. The powder has been sealed in the original containers in a cool, dry Colorado basement, the H2400 was in an unopened can.

I've had far more experienced hands then me tell me to use the old powder as fertilizer...they could be right, but I hate to waste powder.

19.5 grains of H2400 with a 250 gr. BTB WFNGC that really weighs 260 gr, clocked 1249 fps from the 4" 629.

19.5 grains of a fresh new pound of Alliant 2400, with the same bullet clocked 1153 fps....big difference.

The old AA9 produced 1179 fps with 17.5 grains and a BTB 280 gr. WFNGC, after working up from 16.0 gr. which produced 1111 fps.

At this point I'm reworking the 250/60 BTB WFNGC, A2400 loads at 19.5, 20.0 and 20.5 grains, then I'll be checking for accuracy.

I'm debating going with a fresh new pound of H110 or AA9, if I go with the H110 I'll definitely go with a new pound.

I have an old hand, a mentor of sorts who's suggesting Unique/A2400/H110 is all a guy needs for .44 Magnum, it's all he's used for the past 40 or so years.

However I'm impressed with the results of the old AA9 powder and I do like the flexibility verses H110/296 which of course requires a much more narrow working range. So I have a bit of work to do here and the AA9 can be used in 10mm which I load for as well. I've also read that if it's velocity I want at lower pressure then H110/296 is the way to go, verses AA9 or other powders.

My memory is getting bad, but if I recall correctly the H110 produced a bit of flash and blast in my old 6.5" 629 DX and I can do without it, even if it means sacrificing a few fps, I don't need to be blinded if I need to deal with Bullwinkle or Yogi at dawn or dusk or in the night.

I'm also going to try another bullet, a 250 gr. Ledhead Keith bullet is next.

My original goal is.

Plinker, practice load.

Bulk 240 gr. LSWC @ 850-1000 or so fps. Possibly two loads one mild, one warm.

Central to Northern Rocky Mountain Woods protection load.

250 gr. Kieth or LBT WFNGC @ 1200-1300 fps, for the Central Rockies.

280 gr. LBT WFNGC @ up to 1200 fps, or whatever the gun safely handles, without stressing it for the Northern Rockies, with possible Grizz. I've read that 300 grains is stressing the 4" 629 at any useful velocity.

I'm using CCI-300's for the above loads, and of course would go with 350's or WLP for any H110/296 loads.

Any and all suggestions if you have any experience with a 4" 629 that will do the above is greatly appreciated.

Disclaimer, the above loads worked safely in my gun and may not in yours and as usual your own reloading due diligence is required when reloading.

GaryL
September 17, 2011, 12:12 PM
I tested H-110 with both regular primers and magnum primers over a chronograph. The results were almost identical. The magnum primer loads were 1% faster than the regular primers.

IMO, magnum primers should be labeled "cold weather primers". I live in Florida and tested in hot weather.

Maybe there is a difference in cold weather. It would be interesting if someone in the North would test them in cold weather.

Just to be safe, I develop my magnum loads using magnum primers because they are a little hotter but I wouldn't hesitate to use regular primers with H-110.
I have only shot H110 with WLP primers, which is listed for Standard and Magnum loads. I distinctly recall one of my first times out with various loads of H110 was with snow on the ground that wasn't melting and it was probably December and above 0*. I have done some shooting at -20*, but it is not worth the time and trouble to load up everything and head to the range as it is a short shooting session at those temps.

Anyway, Hodgdon's data lists 24gr of H110 for a 240gr JHP. I shot loads at 24gr, 23.5gr, and 23gr. All lit off just fine. But the 24gr load felt better than the 23gr load (smoother recoil?), and the 23gr load showed slightly more flattening of the case head. I know that's not scientific data, but it was enough for me to decide to never go below 23.5gr with H110.

I shot some of those same 24gr loads last weekend and it was nearly 90*. They are stout, but it's hard to tell a difference from the cold weather stout.

I find 2400 to be a better powder. I don't lose hardly any velocity with it at the top end, and the mid range loads are sweet shooting.

zxcvbob
September 17, 2011, 12:22 PM
My original goal is.

Plinker, practice load.

Bulk 240 gr. LSWC @ 850-1000 or so fps. Possibly two loads one mild, one warm.

Central to Northern Rocky Mountain Woods protection load.

250 gr. Kieth or LBT WFNGC @ 1200-1300 fps, for the Central Rockies.

280 gr. LBT WFNGC @ up to 1200 fps, or whatever the gun safely handles, without stressing it for the Northern Rockies, with possible Grizz. I've read that 300 grains is stressing the 4" 629 at any useful velocity.

I'm using CCI-300's for the above loads, and of course would go with 350's or WLP for any H110/296 loads.

Any and all suggestions if you have any experience with a 4" 629 that will do the above is greatly appreciated.

From my experience with .45 Colt (and a 7.5" barrel) Alliant Promo is worth a try for your 900-ish load. It is the cheapest canister powder there is, it's very accurate, and a little goes a long way. (you'll only need about 7.0 to 8.0 grains to get in the range you're talking about -- and there will be a big difference between 7 and 8) And Herco or AA#7 should get you close to your "warm" goal.

I know .45 Colt and .44 Magnum are not the same cartridge. But for this application they are really close.

gofastman
September 17, 2011, 09:09 PM
id like to get a big ol chunk of lead moving at a relatively low speed for target practice, i was thinking a 250gr wadcutter at around the 700fps mark, a wanna-be .45colt if you will

why did nobody mention Trail Boss! :banghead:

TheCracker
September 17, 2011, 09:13 PM
A feller could get through life just fine with Unique and 2400!

I personally like universal clays better than unique since it is cleaner and basically the same burn rate. Love the 2400 also for 44 mag

Rife Ling
September 17, 2011, 09:53 PM
Everyones right by me. 2400 for the upper end and Unique for .44 Specials to most .44 Mag loads but it gets a little crowded up there. Unique is very versitile.

Walkalong
September 17, 2011, 10:01 PM
I personally like universal clays better than unique since it is cleaner and basically the same burn rate. Universal is a bit quicker and gets a bit spikier as pressures get up there. An excellent powder in its own right though.

Eb1
September 18, 2011, 12:26 AM
Yes, Trail Boss would be good for 250 grain lead @ 700 - 900 fps.

I actually use 7.3 grains of TB with the MCB Co. 240 LSWC. I also use that same bullet with 22.0 grains of IMR 4227. Each of those loads are decent target wise out to 50 yards with open sights.
If I hunt with the LSWC, I will be using the 22.0 grains of IMR 4227. If I shoot copper out of the .44 Mag. It is with 20.5 grains of 2400. Super accurate, and packs a heck of a punch. It is also a nice flame thrower, and gets attention at the indoor ranges.

I had a guy who consistently was dumping hot .40 caliber brass on me at an indoor range after I had asked him kindly to please step back one step so that the divider would block the brass. He didn't. I asked his wife to please ask him the same. He still didn't.
I was shooting my TB loads at the time. So when he crept up and started to throw his hot brass on me again. I loaded up 6 of the XTP/2400 loads, and gave him some of his own medicine. He didn't care for the report or the flames of the .44 Magnum, and we resolved that brass issue pretty quickly.

:) :) :)

Rife Ling
September 18, 2011, 04:07 PM
Gofastman ! your powder measure is by far not the best but good enough to load relatively consistant. Unique is a flake powder and I've found if you tap the measure a couple o' times exactly the same way each time when you dump the powder in the case your consistancy should get much better. It takes a bit of practice but I've used one of those measures for years before I made a change.

atonguis
November 30, 2011, 11:03 PM
IMR 4227 and makes a real nice soft recoil not snappy and damn accurate;)

4895
December 3, 2011, 03:10 AM
Not very versatile but... I love 28.0 grains of 296 with a 200 grain xtp. Lights up the sky with my Ruger BH 6.5" barrel. Otherwise, I have to agree with the consensus of 2400 for any jacketed mag load in the medium to hot range. 231 is great for cheap target hard cast lead.

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