Primer impact questions


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196scoutmaster
September 4, 2011, 05:10 PM
Went to the range with some .45 ACP reloads yesterday. No problems to speak of...all but one fired - 50 rounds or so. All on the paper, no flyers - other than me jerking the trigger. First picture shows 9 cases fired from my Springfield Armory 1911 Champion on the left and 19 cased fired with my Taurus PT145. The case in the middle is one I picked up at the range and, IMO, has a proper primer impact mark. The shell above it is the one misfire...primer impacted but no bang.

http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h412/SilverShamrock53/0903003.jpg

Second picture is a close up - SA 1911 fired cases on the left, misfire in the middle and Taurus fired cases on the right.
http://i1108.photobucket.com/albums/h412/SilverShamrock53/0903004.jpg

The obvious firing pin "scratch" on the SA 1911 may just be the gun. Primer impacts look uniform in depth and location. The Taurus fired cases have little to no indent on the primer. In many places the finish on primer is removed and the brass is showing - but no or minimal indent on the primer.

The details of the reload are:
Brass cleaned, sized, primer pockets cleaned prior to priming
Winchester cases - 1X fired (these are now 2X fired)
CCI large pistol primers
6.0 grains of Hodgdon Clays (maybe a tad hot?)
Remington 230 grain FMJ
C.O.L. 1.23", cases crimped

Is what I'm seeing just perculiar to each gun? As long as they're firing should I not worry about it?. No one at the range when I was there reloaded so I couldn't get any immediate input. I think the "no impact" on the Taurus has me more nervous - like maybe there's too much back pressure. Between Hornady, Hodgdon, Lee and Lyman reloading manuals I'm on the middle to high side of the load.

Educate me my friends. I'm no expert. I want and need to learn.

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rcmodel
September 4, 2011, 05:27 PM
6.0 grains Clays under a 230 grain FMJ bullet is more then a little hot!
It is a full 2.0 grains over MAX according to Hodgdon data.

Even if you meant to say Universal Clays, it is still 0.4 over MAX!

Regardless of all that, you need to back off!!

The misfire could be due to a primer you didn't get fully seated to the bottom of the primer pocket.

rc

rsrocket1
September 4, 2011, 05:31 PM
The misfired primer looks like it was not seated deep enough and the firing pin pushed the primer center into the pocket but still not to the point of seating it properly to fire.

According to Hodgon's website, 4.0g of Clays is the max recommended load for a 230g fmj bullet. Quickload says about 3.5 g is pretty hot so 6.0 is real hot.

Although primer cratering and flattening aren't sure signs of overpressure, CCI primers are pretty hard and these look pretty flat and cratered. Where did you get your load data?

edit:RC you beat me to it!

196scoutmaster
September 4, 2011, 09:04 PM
Confession here...embarassing, stupid (and pretty damn lucky). My bad on the recipe....I did use Clays. The load data I got from Hornaday 7th Edition, p.900. 6.4 gr is listed as the max - for Clays .....UNIVERSAL. (Sigh)....
Thanks RC, thanks rsrocket1 - I was sure I was correct. Read over everything again, checked it against Hodgdon's site....and found my error. Off to pull a few bullets.

I checked the primer seat on the lone misfire....it doesn't measure high but....something else to pay better attention of.

rsrocket1
September 4, 2011, 09:56 PM
Glad you asked and lucky for you that you didn't have a kaboom. The 45 ACP is rated for a maximum pressure of 21,000 psi. Your loads were probably topping nearly 44,000 psi!

dave from mesa
September 4, 2011, 11:09 PM
I checked the primer seat on the lone misfire....it doesn't measure high but
If it was high the hit would have pushed it down. Maybe should have tried a second hit on it.
My thinking on the Springfield is that it is starting to eject a little too early and that is why the swipe on the primers. Way too hot would be a problem. Just my guess tho.

196scoutmaster
September 4, 2011, 11:50 PM
rsrocket1 - my higher power was watching over me.

Mea maxima culpa....

(for you non-altar boys out there that translates to "through my most grevious fault")

gamestalker
September 5, 2011, 01:01 AM
Only one failure to fire is something you need to diagnose. Being 100% honest, I can say in the 30 plus years I've been loading for everything including shotgun, handgun, and high powered rilfe, I have not had one single mis-fire, they shouldn't happen unless you have been the 1 in a million who got a hold of a bad batch of Wolf, I think that happened to Walkalong recently.
And take great care to use the correct data. Over charging a case can lead to serious failure's that can lead to death!

kingmt
September 5, 2011, 05:44 PM
CCI large pistol primers
6.0 grains of Hodgdon Clays (maybe a tad hot?)
Remington 230 grain FMJ
C.O.L. 1.23", cases crimpedWow.

That a 45ACP +P+++

I bet that would make a FMJ open up like a JHP. I agree that would have left the drag marks & craters. I would check the frame, slid, & face for pinging before continuing use. Tarus will repair theirs as long as you don't tell them what did it.

Did it sting your hands?

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