Problems with Win LPP seating proud?


PDA






prickett
September 5, 2011, 10:23 PM
I've been having a heck of a time with failures to fire from my .45 acp. Recently, I noticed the problem only seems to occur with Winchester LPP - not with CCI primers. The Winchesters seem to seat shallower (resulting in them sitting proud of the case) than the CCI's, requiring, in quite a few cases, two or more firing pin strikes to fire the round. Has anyone else had this problem?

And, any suggestions (other than buy CCI's - I have several thousand Win LPP that I need to use up)?

If you enjoyed reading about "Problems with Win LPP seating proud?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Steve C
September 6, 2011, 03:59 AM
You are not seating your primers into the bottom of the primer pocket. Primers not seated to the bottom of the pocket move when struck by the firing pin and the anvil doesn't crush the primer compound pellet to set the primer off. The primer going off after a second or third hit is the indication of an improperly seated primer as the first hit from the firing pin usually drives the primer to the bottom of the pocket so the subsequent hit sets it off.

When priming with a hand tool or on a single stage press you can usually feel the primer bottom out in the pocket. Progressive presses give less tactile feedback making it harder to feed a primer seat properly. Use whatever pressure on the tool needed to seat the primer into the bottom of the primer pocket and don't worry about crushing the primer. With properly seated primers your problem will disappear.

bds
September 6, 2011, 11:17 AM
+1. I have noticed that not all primer pockets are of the same depth - whether this is due to different manufacture or pockets being reamed/modified by reloaders. Also, not all primers are the same height, so proper seating depth may vary - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3936874#post3936874

If you hand prime, you can feel the primer feet hit the bottom of the pocket (first resistance) and as you press deeper, anvil being set against the priming compound while anvil feet ride up inside the primer cup (second resistance). I usually seat the primer .004" below flush, but depending on the depth of the primer pocket, properly seated primer may be deeper. Due to this reason, seating the primer flush may not ignite the primer on the first strike.

If you press prime, it is harder to feel for this two stage resistance. Presses that have primer seat depth adjustment may not address this issue 100% due to different pocket depths. When I am press priming, I load the finished rounds bottom side up in ammo box/tray and run my finger over the primers to see if they are below flush. If I feel any flush/high primers, I will reseat the primer deeper in the press or the hand priming tool.

Of course, some have posted that as long as your reloads go bang you are fine, but if you pick up mixed range brass with unknown usage life/primer pocket depths, YMMV. If your primer fires on the second or subsequent strikes, it is due to improperly seated primer. Here's a thread that addresses properly seating primers - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=568838

USSR
September 6, 2011, 12:25 PM
I make it a habit to give each primer pocket a couple of "twists" of my primer pocket uniformer. Sometimes cases will have a primer pocket where the perimeter at the bottom of the pocket is not flush with the rest of the pocket bottom.

Don

prickett
September 6, 2011, 01:44 PM
You are not seating your primers into the bottom of the primer pocket. Primers not seated to the bottom of the pocket move when struck by the firing pin and the anvil doesn't crush the primer compound pellet to set the primer off. The primer going off after a second or third hit is the indication of an improperly seated primer as the first hit from the firing pin usually drives the primer to the bottom of the pocket so the subsequent hit sets it off.

When priming with a hand tool or on a single stage press you can usually feel the primer bottom out in the pocket. Progressive presses give less tactile feedback making it harder to feed a primer seat properly. Use whatever pressure on the tool needed to seat the primer into the bottom of the primer pocket and don't worry about crushing the primer. With properly seated primers your problem will disappear.
Thanks for the answer Steve. I guess I left that part out in my original question. I found out through previous loadings with Win LPP's that failures to fire are the result of primers not fully seated. Usually, reinserting a failure to fire cartridge results in a success. Yesterday, it took 2 or 3 reinsertions.

Having said that, when loading CCI LPP, I NEVER have this problem. Loading Win LPP I had about a 10% failure to fire rate.

So, my question is whether Win LPP's are larger or deeper than CCI's due to the fact that only the Win LPP's seem to have this problem.

I prime with my RCBS Pro 2000 progressive press. Its adjusted to allow max pressure on the primer (it has a bolt you can extend to limit how deep the primer seats, but i have it adjusted to not limit the depth at all). So, other than reaming out the primer pocket, I'm not sure how to account for Win primers.

Also, I'd expect to hear of others with similar experiences, but don't seem to be hearing them.

Steve C
September 6, 2011, 02:08 PM
So, my question is whether Win LPP's are larger or deeper than CCI's due to the fact that only the Win LPP's seem to have this problem.


I never had any problems with Winchester Large Pistol primers failing to seat properly or with more difficulty when using my Hornady LNL or RCBS Jr compared to CCI, Rem, or any of the other brands I've used if everything is set properly on it. Don't know about the RCBS 2000 but on the Hornady LNL if the bolt that holds the shell plate works loose or the primer ram works out a bit it can cause primers to not be seated properly. I also once grabbed a box of Large Rifle primers by accident and seated them in .45 ACP cases. Being taller they stood out and I had to remove them and prime the cases with pistol primers.

JDGray
September 6, 2011, 05:41 PM
What brass you loading? S&B will take extra effort with any primer;) Generally I have seen no issues with WLP primers.

prickett
September 7, 2011, 09:14 AM
The brass I'm reloading is mixed (i.e. range brass).

Wireman134
September 7, 2011, 09:53 AM
Clean those pockets and slam them home.:banghead: If they are high they are not seated. Only difficulty I see is if you have crimped primer brass, you must remove the crimp. Use a hand priming tool gives the best feel of a seated primer. WLP are all good.

dmeador
September 10, 2011, 09:59 AM
I also have noticed that Win LPP are difficult to seat properly with the Lee hand primer. I seem to not be able to apply enough force to get some of the primers to seat, so I have gone to my press mounted primer for .45 Auto. A little slower, but not issues.

popper
September 10, 2011, 04:12 PM
I had trouble with WLR primers with hand priming, found that leaving the cases in the sun and then priming made it easy.

FROGO207
September 11, 2011, 05:20 AM
For me the CCI primers are all around harder to seat, it takes more effort to start the primer into the pocket. I mean to say it takes more pressure to seat them and the two feelings of seating when pushing harder are "quicker" for a lack of a better term. Using more pressure to seat them in the first place results in a better more uniform rate of compression. The WIN primers "feel" different to me and I have to be careful that I seat them in far enough.

If you enjoyed reading about "Problems with Win LPP seating proud?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!