Military crimp question


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genebofunk
September 6, 2011, 01:44 PM
Hello all. This is my first post to THR. I have a newbie kinda question. I recently has given a metric **** load of military 308 rounds. I found out that trying to seat a primer without removing the crimp is a bad idea. I used one of the rcbs chamfering tools to try and cut down the primer pocket to remove the crimp. Below are the said pictures of before and after. I want to know with what I have if I'm on the right track. How much of the inner pocket do I need to remove. ie just enough to get the primer to seat. Take a look at the pics and let me know what you guys think.

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GW Staar
September 6, 2011, 01:53 PM
Looks fine what you did, but there are better...make that "surer"...ways to do it.

Dillon and RCBS both make swager tools that press the metal back where it came from. The RCBS tool works, but is not as easy or elegant (or as expensive) as the Dillon Swager.

RCBS and Hornady (and others) make military crimp reamers that cut the crimp out similarly to what you did with the chamfer tool, but they have built-in stops that prevent you from cutting too little or too much. (RCBS has an inferior version (tapered cone design) that Midway is still selling their remaining stock of....don't buy that one. Get this new one (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=254170))

The Hornady one works well too. Either one works with RCBS's Trim Mate or chucked in a drill.

ny32182
September 6, 2011, 01:54 PM
Looks like you've cut out just about the right amount to me. Optimal would be just enough for the primer to seat reliably, but realistically you can usually take out a little more without any real performance impact.

USSR
September 6, 2011, 02:19 PM
While that will work, since you've got a metric ****load of these case, I'd say it's time to invest $100 in a Dillon Super Swage 600. After you're done doing all your brass, you can turn around and sell the Dillon for $90. It will be the best $10 you ever spent.

Don

Hondo 60
September 6, 2011, 03:52 PM
Looks perfect to me.

That's exactly how I do it.

Grumulkin
September 6, 2011, 03:59 PM
The RCBS swage tool works great. I used to do it with a primer pocket uniformer but the swage tool does it faster and better.

kingmt
September 6, 2011, 09:50 PM
I use the CH4D swager & ram prime. I'm very happy with it.

medalguy
September 7, 2011, 10:59 PM
My vote goes to Dillon. I can swage the primer pockets as fast as I can drop a case on the rod and flip it. And do thousands in an evening without getting a blister on my fingers.

Super.45
September 8, 2011, 08:21 AM
I use the rcbs reamer mounted on a small battery op drill. A light chamfering removes the crimp. I can do a lot of cases while I watch TV. Its the cheaper solution and works just as well as any other.

kingmt
September 8, 2011, 08:54 PM
I use the rcbs reamer mounted on a small battery op drill. A light chamfering removes the crimp. I can do a lot of cases while I watch TV. Its the cheaper solution and works just as well as any other.
We look at cheaper different. When the life of those batteries is over they are expensive & the electric cost also. If you only have a few then I agree but if you do several then it starts adding up.

Ken70
September 9, 2011, 06:45 PM
Interesting the swage advocates don't mention the sorting of headstamps before swaging. Every swage tool mentions the need to run batches of the same headstamp, to get a good result. Run random stuff and it doesn't work very well. Everybody has different dimensions regarding the thickness of the web at the bottom of the case, hence the need to sort.

3/8" diameter, 82 degree countersink in a cordless drill doesn't need a prior sorting; just pick it up and get a couple of 1/4" long chips and you're done. Only costs $4....

USSR
September 9, 2011, 07:13 PM
Interesting the swage advocates don't mention the sorting of headstamps before swaging. Every swage tool mentions the need to run batches of the same headstamp, to get a good result. Run random stuff and it doesn't work very well. Everybody has different dimensions regarding the thickness of the web at the bottom of the case, hence the need to sort.

This is true. But, you are going to sort your brass by headstamp at some point anyways, so why not sort them prior to swaging? Also, even with all your brass having the same headstamp, you will run across the rouge case or two that will have a thicker web. I set them aside and adjust the swager and run them last. Adjusting the swager takes about 10 seconds.

Don

EddieNFL
September 9, 2011, 07:22 PM
But, you are going to sort your brass by headstamp at some point anyways, so why not sort them prior to swaging?

Not everyone is as serious about loading as others. Heck, I know guys that have no clue what headstamp they're using.

denton
September 9, 2011, 07:46 PM
I use a $6 countersink and an electric drill.

BTW, 7.62 military brass has a thicker wall than most commercial stuff. You'll probably want to back down a grain or so on your powder.

kingmt
September 9, 2011, 10:14 PM
That's me most of the time. I keep track of my 243Win only because my son shoots the same caliber & his pile would keep getting bigger as mine got smaller. One thing I have on him is his brass will work in my rifle but he isn't strong enough the cam the bolt over on my brass in his rifle.

I don't sort head stamps to swage ether. There is a huge amount of free travel the crimp is swaged & it's forceing against the flash hole. Once I fell it pass the crimp I back off anyhow. Before I learned how to use the CH4D I bent 2 rims then clear as day & I figured out it only needs adjusted enough to clear the crimp. Now I just adjust it for one & let my son take over.

parker51
September 9, 2011, 11:01 PM
Interesting the swage advocates don't mention the sorting of headstamps before swaging. Every swage tool mentions the need to run batches of the same headstamp, to get a good result. Run random stuff and it doesn't work very well. Everybody has different dimensions regarding the thickness of the web at the bottom of the case, hence the need to sort.

I use a Dillon and don't reset the tool when swaging different headstamps. I'm only swaging the mouth of the primer pocket not the entire pocket. This goes for .223, 30-06 and .308 brass. I take a piece of commercial brass of each caliber and set the tool and swage the brass. Can't see any need to separate by headstamps before swaging.

Ken70
September 10, 2011, 12:07 AM
Now that's really interesting, doing a partial swage; just the outer .060". In all the research I did about swage versus a countersink, no one ever mentioned just adjusting part of the primer pocket. Everyone was mashing it all the way in; until it bottoms.

The CH4 tool was interesting, only about $20 versus the $100+ for the Dillon. RCBS swager seemed to work for some people and nothing but trouble for the rest. Given all the "issues" I was reading about the swagers, I thought I'd give the $4 countersink a try first, and it works.

P-32
September 10, 2011, 07:30 AM
Given all the "issues" I was reading about the swagers, I thought I'd give the $4 countersink a try first, and it works.


As you load more ammo there will be a point when the feel of a primer seating might become important to you. You will find the counter sink isn't up to the task. I have found I liked the feel of a swaged pocket over a cut one. But I do load a lot of GI brass. It's a 100 rounds every time I shoot a match.

amlevin
September 12, 2011, 10:11 AM
Countersinks, Reamers, and other "cutting" tools, used to remove the Mil Crimp are not the best by a long shot. Not all those crimps are uniformly centered on the primer pocket. These tools will follow the crimp, not the center of the primer pocket.

I have both the RCBS and Dillon Swaging tools. I prefer the Dillon but both work. They follow the center of the primer pocket bore and when they add the radius to the opening it's centered on the pocket so the primers don't get cocked.

I also prefer to not remove any metal if not necessary, just push it back where it belongs.

There are of course several ways to do the job. Many are just "cheap".

Caliber
September 12, 2011, 12:54 PM
Dillon Swage is the way to go, although expensive.

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