[wbwanzer]

My 229 had developed a problem with extracting spent cases periodically. It does not happen with every round. It does happen with more than one magazine (all magazines are factory). I usually use S&B 115 gr. FMJ, but have had it malfunction with Federal and Winchester, so I don't think it's magazine or ammo related.

I gave it to a respected local gunsmith. He did some honing and polishing and sharpened the extractor a little without changing the dimensions. That did not fix the problem. He then replaced the extractor spring and it still malfunctions. The extractor has not been replace because there is nothing wrong with it. I'm getting the gun back today. Do you folks have any ideas before I send it to SIG? Doesn't seem like there can be too many options available. Picture of problem below. Thanks for any help.
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m145/wbwanzer/SIGfailure.jpg

[unclenunzie]

I've no experience with Sigs. But you might field strip and place a round against the breech face and see if the extractor is holding it in place. This is a common test for a 1911, and I applied it to my LCP when it failed to extract. It was unable to hold the round against the breech face and eventually the slide had to be replaced - no doubt it was not machined properly. Less likely in your Sig to be sure, but it's possible.

No matter the outcome though, since multiple mags and ammo brands have shown the failure, and your gunsmith worked it already, return to Sig is of course your best bet.

[Lonestar49]

...

First, I don't like the_looks of your ammo there, as it looks used, scuffed up, and the red on the primers looks like its rubbed off onto the next bullet/head.. which would not bold well IMHO, nor would I use such looking ammo.. OMMV

So I'm thinking your bullets are getting stuck within the chamber and it would seem, as you say, some work, some don't, it's more a matter of bullet size/s a/o you have a very tight chamber.. Could be too tight, dunno but -

Might you take the barrel out and then put a bullet in the chamber and press it as hard as you can with your finger and then see, by pulling the bullet out, if there is "resistance", as in stuck in there too tight, as the_force of each bullet being rammed into the chamber via full slide_force is at play here.. especially after each shot, each spent casing expands a tad which could be too tight for the extractor to "hold on to" and pull it fully out..

Whatever you find out, you will be impressed with Sigs CS if you call them as they will pay for the shipping back to them and their turnaround is usually within 2 or 3 weeks.. But I'd try one thing, if it were my gun, first IF the bullets seem to be tight within the chamber - I'd give the chamber a light polishing and then test out ammo, new, cheap, re-loads, whatever your wallet is comfy with and go from there..

Like my SA EMP SAO 1911 9mm, it has a tight chamber and most reloads will not chamber fully, so no re-loads, and the now and then stuck bullet, chambering short, since I polished the chamber lightly, is a non-issue thru 7k rounds using only new quality ammo's, be it WWB, Federal, PMC, etc..

Luck,


Ls


Ps.. is this a new gun or used..? And how many rounds, aprox does it have thru it..?

[wbwanzer]

Lonestar I bought the gun used so not sure of round count, but I've had this pistol for about three years now with no problem until a few weeks ago.

The ammo in the picture is S&B factory new and looks perfectly fine (and clean) as I take it from the box to load in the magazine. As I said, this has also happened with Federal and Winchester.

[David E]

Who pronounced there is nothing wrong with the extractor? The gunsmith who couldn't fix or identify the problem?

Ever fire any Wolf or other steel cased ammo thru this gun? The 226's, at least, suffered cracked extractors as a result.

I once had a S&W 645 that had a cracked extractor, right in the corner of the rim cut-out. Had to flex it with pliers to see it.

Replace the extractor, if only to eliminate it as a possible cause.

[Lonestar49]

...

Agree, totally, with above now that I know it is a used gun and if the bullet/s are not being extracted, that leaves but one culprit.. new spring won't help a cracked extractor or worn out or "out of spec claw"..

Should solve your problem, I hope

Luck,


Ls

Ps.. having 3 P229/s 40's and 9mm, you can pull your extractor out a tad to watch the arm in whole or possible 2 piece crack.

I use dental picks to clean the claw (lightly) and they can pull out the extractor as well.. They sell such type tools at home depot in the tool section.. fyi

Great aids in probing or tight corner/area cleanings and for grabbing and pulling/lightly certain things.. Come in a set of 4 around 8 - 12 bucks IIRC

Also an aid in cleaning that area are PC canned air/pressure to blow lent/etc., out of such small areas.. about 8 bucks a can and they last fairly long.. many cleanings

[wbwanzer]

David No Wolf ammo or any steel cased since I've owned the gun. Usually S&B 115 gr, FMJ.

[JDGray]

Gotta be the extractor....What else is there? All of a sudden the chamber didn't shrink.... Your brass that does come out isn't scarred up is it?

[wbwanzer]

JD The spent cases that get stuck are not scarred up. They look fine.

[NOLAEMT]

have you cleaned the chamber really well? it could be the case sticking in the chamber due to fouling, etc, and that might make the gun fail to extract, if thats not the case, i agree, it probably needs a new extractor.

[JDGray]

Another thing, if it were a tight chamber, the extractor claw would leave a scrape across the case rim. Looks even more like an out of spec extractor.:)

[wbwanzer]

Thanks everybody.

I cleaned the pistol and the gunsmith did an ultrasonic (or electrosonic or something similar) cleaning of the whole gun. So it should be clean, but it still malfunctioned when testing.

[MJ_ATL]

Thanks everybody.

I cleaned the pistol and the gunsmith did an ultrasonic (or electrosonic or something similar) cleaning of the whole gun. So it should be clean, but it still malfunctioned when testing.
I'd change the extractor and possibly the extractor pin first just to be sure. Also, I've never heard of any Sig needing modifications (i.e. sharpening) of the extractor. The extractor is about $28 at Top Gun Supply and its pretty easy to remove and replace.

[1SOW]

I suspect you've already read the "fix"; but

if you've shot it for three years and it was "a previously owned" Sig, have you ever replaced all the mag springs?

Once you have the new extractor, if you also replace the magsprings (if they haven't been replaced) your pistol is again like new....errr...except for recoil and hammer springs.:D

I have an older Sig that needs the same.

[wbwanzer]

I checked with the gunsmith to verify that he had removed the extractor and there were no cracks or flaws.
I just spoke with SIG. I explained the situation and the representative there recommended a new recoil spring. I've ordered two from Topgun Supply. I'll update this thread when the new spring has been installed and the gun tested for extraction failure.

[wbwanzer]

I'm the original poster of this thread with an update. I have installed the new recoil spring and it still malfunctions I'll be calling SIG in the next few days to send it in to them.

[ATLDave]

FWIW, I had an issue with my Sig 556 rifle, and Sig was pretty good to deal with. A little tight-lipped on the phone, but they paid shipping both ways and had the gun turned around faster than their promised time.

[bdb benzino]

It looks exactly like what my Hi Power was doing when the extractor broke. Good luck!

[wbwanzer]

It looks exactly like what my Hi Power was doing when the extractor broke. Good luck!
It's gotta be the extractor, in spite of what my local gunsmith said. What else could it be?

[Lonestar49]

...

A possible need for a better gunny/gunsmith..?

Did you try and pull your external extractor out a tad to see IF it is, in fact, in one piece, solid, no crack, equal as it comes out maybe 1/8".. all of it in one piece rather than seeing a bend in, otherwise, one solid piece?

And, if the extractor spring is good, there should be some tightness/feel/resistance in your "easy effort" to pull it out a tad.. If the spring is old/bad/weak, that could also be the problem.. You've ruled out the need of a return spring.. IF you find fault in any areas mentioned -

Send it to SIG, should take but 2 weeks, done, and on its way home.. fyi


Ls

[StrikeFire83]

wbwanzer, send it back to Sig. You shouldn't have to pay a gunsmith to make a brand new gun function properly. Anything less than reliable-function (with at least several commonly available ammo brands) in a new gun is unacceptable. Send it back to Sig and demand they pay shipping both ways.

[JDGray]

Lonestar I bought the gun used so not sure of round count, but I've had this pistol for about three years now with no problem until a few weeks ago.

SF83,
Quote from the OP....

I still say bad extractor, sorry you've been steered wrong twice.:(

[StrikeFire83]

^ oops, didn't see that. Still, I think Sig is in the best position to know whats wrong.

[JDGray]

^^^Really?^^^
I just spoke with SIG. I explained the situation and the representative there recommended a new recoil spring.

Another quote from the OP....

Maybe the gunsmiths at Sig will get it right.:)

[wbwanzer]

Thanks again everyone. I'll start a new thread for those who are interested in the ourcome, after I get it back from SIG.

[Blue68f100]

The first thing I do on a new used gun is change all of the springs. Sig has a maintenance kit for this but you will need to order the main spring (hammer spring) separately for it's not in the kit.

I would take a brass brush hooked up to a drill and work over the chamber really good with solvent. If this is carboned up it will cause brass to stick. A test is use a Qtip with solvent and see if it comes back black. Normally cleaning does not clean this the best unless you use an over size brush like a 40 cal. I would also install a new Extractor and spring. The Mag spring has little impact on extraction of fired brass, it does on feeding though which you do not have a problem.

My 229 9mm has close to 15k rounds through in now and keeps on trucking. Change the recoil spring every 3-5k rounds. I change the main spring (hammer spring) every 3k rounds since I'm used a reduced power 19# spring.

And shoot 9mm Luger ammo..........

[Thompsoncustom]

How old are the mag springs? If there are weak the round in the mag can walk forward and push against the round that is trying to be extracted. I have had a problem with a weak mag spring before and it looked just like this I would try a set of new mag springs. I had two mags so at first I thought it had to be something else because I would get this problem on both mags but it was just springs not says yours is the same but springs are cheap.

Other things to check would be the angle on the bottom side of the breach face and part of the slide that runs over the bullets to make sure there is no burrs.

[bobby68]

Any update on what was wrong?

[Walt Sherrill]

I don't see much way the problem, as described, could be magazine-related. That "pushing forward" mentioned above isn't going to happen if the prior round is properly chambered and then extracted. It would only show up, as in the photo, if the fired round isn't extracted... and then only as the next round tries to feed and can't. A closed slide will keep the next round DOWN and out of the way until the fired round is extracted (or not, as in this case). A weak mag spring could let the next round nudge the slide stop -- and that could lead to some premature slide lockage.

Sounds like an extractor issue -- maybe a cracked or chipped extractor, or a weak extractor spring. For some reason the extractor is losing its grasp of the chambered round.

(At one time, a lot of folks had problems with Winchester White Box -- as it had a strange, different extractor groove; I don't know if that's still the case. The fact that you're having problems with Federal, too, makes the ammo a less-likely culprit. I haven't used WWB for a long time, but it used to be that the extractor groove looked like this: \/ when it should have looked more like |/ -- a less sharp LEDGE for the extractor to grab.)


Re: "And shoot 9mm Luger ammo..."

What else can he shoot? All true 9mm (i.e., 9x19) is 9mm Luger. (or 9mm parabellum). Anything else doesn't fit the gun. It's all the same, with different names.

[trex1310]

I had a brand new p229 that was doing exactly as yours. I
sent it back to Sig under warranty. I got it back and guess what,
same problem. I sent it back and received it from Sig two more
times. After the 3rd time I conceded defeat and got rid of it. I
hope this isn't the case with yours. Needless to say, I'm not a
big Sig fan. I might buy another Sig, but it will be a while until
I get the bad taste out of my mouth. Please don't give me the
"break in" excuse. If a $900 gun needs breaking in, Sig ought
to break it in before they sell it.