Passed up a Raging Bull.... Would you?


PDA






WaltonS
September 8, 2011, 12:25 PM
... Would you?
I was in one of my local shops the other day and saw a 6" stainless Raging Bull in .44 magnum. Asking price was $500. I could get one brand new from Bud's for about $60 more, but, hey, no wait on shipping. The gun was in "stock" condition, no modifications. A few scratches and dings, it'd definitely had a few rounds through it.
Upon closer inspection, I noticed that, with the hammer down, the cylinder rotated freely clockwise. No resistance at all, nothing was engaging on it. Immediately, I asked if $500 was the lowest they'd go, and pointed out the issue. Guy goes to the backroom and makes a phone call. Comes back out...
"Well. My manager says the gun has a lifetime warranty so it can be shipped in. So there's no reason for us to mark it down any more."
I politely thanked him for his time and left. Possibly permanently.
Am I overreacting, or do y'all agree that it's crap policy to:
1)sell broken guns
2)not KNOW that there's something that apparently wrong with a gun you're selling
3)ask near-full price for a used, damaged gun?

If you enjoyed reading about "Passed up a Raging Bull.... Would you?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
pendennis
September 8, 2011, 12:30 PM
Not on a bet.

First, it's made by Taurus, not exactly known for customer service. Second, the dealer must subscribe to the adage - "You can fool some of the people all the time, and all of the people some of the time; and that's enough."

Guillermo
September 8, 2011, 12:53 PM
I would not have bought it either.

Buying a broken gun at full price...I don't think so.

tackstrp
September 8, 2011, 12:59 PM
agree . walk away
dont forget . would cost $50 or more to send for repair.

Tallinar
September 8, 2011, 12:59 PM
No way I would have bought it. Probably wouldn't buy from a shop like that at all.

rcmodel
September 8, 2011, 01:00 PM
My manager says the gun has a lifetime warranty so it can be shipped in.Maybe the manager should ship it in then!

rc

Guillermo
September 8, 2011, 01:15 PM
Probably wouldn't buy from a shop like that at all

I concur

WaltonS
September 8, 2011, 01:20 PM
Well, 'least I'm not the only one who feels that a shop with such a mentality isn't worthy of my money!

tarosean
September 8, 2011, 01:21 PM
Would not give them 1 cent of my money

CraigC
September 8, 2011, 01:21 PM
I would walk away and not go back.

Snowbandit
September 8, 2011, 01:28 PM
Any shop that deals like that wouldn't be getting any of my business. It's a Taurus though and I wouldn't have been looking at it in the first place. Try to buy American made guns whenever possible.

WaltonS
September 8, 2011, 01:31 PM
I think the OP wasn't necessarily referring to the MODEL of gun itself. Just the concept of saying "The manufacturer will fix it, so we'll sell it broken at full price"




.... Well, I'll be! He's right!

dallascj
September 8, 2011, 02:14 PM
I LIKE Taurus and would've passed on that. You did right; these people do not deserve to be in business with that attitude.

sixgunner455
September 8, 2011, 02:41 PM
That's just ridiculous. I likely would not have been quite so polite when walking out.

rich642z
September 8, 2011, 02:48 PM
I buy Ruger revolvers. That should answer your question on that. A little more expensive but,DURABLE.

webfox
September 8, 2011, 04:29 PM
Taurus offers unlimited repairs with shipping on their part for all new guns. You'd have to know when it was made to get that reception. I've sent my revolver in twice for service and have never been without it for more than a week, sent on their dime and back.

Your mileage may vary.

I don't hate Taurus. I have a great .44 mag that no one can piss on.

addedpulp
September 8, 2011, 04:43 PM
I bought a shotgun without testing it (other than bringing in snap caps, which I don't have, there wouldn't have been any way to) from a shop with similar policies. I'll never buy from them again, because the policy is only expressed when a customer returns with issues.

If they can't be bothered to know what they're selling, and know whether it's functional or not, I won't be a customer, and they won't get my money. Junk shops pray on the uninformed.

And I like Taurus just fine.

The Red Hot Rider
September 8, 2011, 04:51 PM
To quote the great Chris Farley in the movie "Tommy Boy", "So, it's a guarantee you want? I can take a crap in a box and put a guarantee on the side for ya'...I've got the time".

JERRY
September 8, 2011, 04:59 PM
theyre trying to sell a broken gun, that they know is broken?!

that would be my last visit to that shop.

two gun charlie
September 8, 2011, 05:06 PM
I like taurus too , but I don't like it enough to buy a broken one ...lol.

Exeter
September 8, 2011, 06:09 PM
Only positive about that experience is now you know a place to avoid, and the lesson didn't cost you anything.

DC Plumber
September 8, 2011, 07:15 PM
What the?? NO, don't walk away from that gun shop, RUN away.

Dude, what city do you like in? I hope I never stumble in there to look at guns.

Wishoot
September 8, 2011, 08:10 PM
I politely thanked him for his time and left. Possibly permanently.

I would of told them where to stick their gun before I stormed out of that shop forever.

BSA1
September 8, 2011, 11:55 PM
1. I don't have a problem buying broken used guns as long as I know what the problem(s) are. I can make a decsion on if I think I can fix it myself or if it requires a gunsmith. in this case there is factory warranty that will you to be without your gun for ????.
2. Buying anything used is buyer beware. Let's face it some gun clerks don't know squat about guns.
3. Price is what the market will bear. I don't have any interest in black guns because of their price.

I don't understand why some of you would get angry, tell the employees off and storm out of the shop. You spotted the problem before purchasing the gun so you are not out anything. Depending on my experiences with the gunshop I might very well make the decision not to go back.

oldfool
September 9, 2011, 09:18 AM
like OP, I would turn my back, walk away without hesitation, and never return.
But (any) conversation with folks like that seller is a waste of your time and energy.
Save the conversation for friends and family, as in "caveat emptor"

warnerwh
September 9, 2011, 11:16 AM
How can you trust a shop like that? There are honest shops out there.

clem
September 9, 2011, 04:00 PM
HERE IS MY STORY ABOUT TAURUS

Re: 941 Complaint



My 941 is back at Taurus being repaired (under warranty). It was key holing at 10 meters with Winchester white box and after three cylinder loads, I had one heck of a time getting the spent shells to extract/eject.
Inspection after cleaning show that ALL cylinders had tool/chatter marks and the barrel cone cut/machining was off center.
I have 3 other weapons by Taurus and they work great!
I guess the newer guys/girls at Taurus have thier heads up thier butts on quality assurance/inspection.
My revolver has now been there a month, no word yet.

UPDATE:

Well, I got my 941 back last Friday. The enclosed paper work said "adjusted" and "replaced". Nothing about what was adjusted or what was replaced, and included was a target with eight holes in it. The target had the comment; "Winchester Super X 22 mag. 15 yds Bench rest with sand bag 6 o'clock aim". All eight hits were in the black.
Now that looks great! But I haven't shot the revolver yet myself.

Now for the rest of the story.

Upon visual inspection, my once NEW flat stainless steel finish now has marks where fixture jigs held the frame while it was being repaired. But what has realy pissed me off is the dents in the left side of the top strap of the NEW revolver. I'll get pictures up soon.
I'm so mad that I didn't contact Taurus repair/customer service in Florida but I did write a letter to Mr. Luis Fernando Costa Estima, President of FORJAS TAURUS SA in Brazil and CEO Mr. Bob Morrison in Florida.
Not that it might do any good, but I feel better about doing it.
I will not send my 941 back to Taurus or ever buy another Taurus product again. They have lost a long time customer and gained a very bitter enemy.

I finaly shot it. No more key holing, but the extraction/ejection problem remains.

El Guero
September 9, 2011, 04:46 PM
I bought one of those Taurus .22 Trackers from a larger dealer at a gun show about a year ago. I played with it at their booth, checking the lock-up etc. and thought I was good to go. Took it out to shoot immediately after leaving the show, and the thing started binding up. Wouldn't rotate the cylinder without some manual help. Swell.

I took it back to the show, showed it to the dealer, he confirmed it had some issues. He said, "Well, you can ship it back, I can ship it back, or I can give you your money back." I was already stretched thin, so I got my money back.

In that afternoon I learned that I won't buy another Taurus and that that dealer is a good fellow, so I think I did alright on the whole thing.

dprice3844444
September 9, 2011, 04:55 PM
shop should send it in for warranty.they can be sued if someone gets hurt

bikemutt
September 9, 2011, 08:18 PM
shop should send it in for warranty.they can be sued if someone gets hurt
Anyone can get sued of course but, it's a used gun. Near as I can tell with used guns it's caveat Emptor.

Fishslayer
September 10, 2011, 01:13 AM
At $500 I would not even think about it. I would look for a Ruger Redhawk. Not because the Taurus is bad, but the Ruger is known to be good and Ruger customer service is known to be top notch.

Honstly I have even seen a S&W 629 for $500. I'm still kicking myself for letting it get away.:(

I'm not a big fan of ported barrels either, but that's just me.

OldCavSoldier
September 10, 2011, 01:36 AM
I would walk away and not go back.
I'm with you, Craig! My shadow would never shade their threshold again!

OldCavSoldier
September 10, 2011, 01:43 AM
HERE IS MY STORY ABOUT TAURUS

Re: 941 Complaint



My 941 is back at Taurus being repaired (under warranty). It was key holing at 10 meters with Winchester white box and after three cylinder loads, I had one heck of a time getting the spent shells to extract/eject.
Inspection after cleaning show that ALL cylinders had tool/chatter marks and the barrel cone cut/machining was off center.
I have 3 other weapons by Taurus and they work great!
I guess the newer guys/girls at Taurus have thier heads up thier butts on quality assurance/inspection.
My revolver has now been there a month, no word yet.

UPDATE:

Well, I got my 941 back last Friday. The enclosed paper work said "adjusted" and "replaced". Nothing about what was adjusted or what was replaced, and included was a target with eight holes in it. The target had the comment; "Winchester Super X 22 mag. 15 yds Bench rest with sand bag 6 o'clock aim". All eight hits were in the black.
Now that looks great! But I haven't shot the revolver yet myself.

Now for the rest of the story.

Upon visual inspection, my once NEW flat stainless steel finish now has marks where fixture jigs held the frame while it was being repaired. But what has realy pissed me off is the dents in the left side of the top strap of the NEW revolver. I'll get pictures up soon.
I'm so mad that I didn't contact Taurus repair/customer service in Florida but I did write a letter to Mr. Luis Fernando Costa Estima, President of FORJAS TAURUS SA in Brazil and CEO Mr. Bob Morrison in Florida.
Not that it might do any good, but I feel better about doing it.
I will not send my 941 back to Taurus or ever buy another Taurus product again. They have lost a long time customer and gained a very bitter enemy.

I finaly shot it. No more key holing, but the extraction/ejection problem remains.
I'm with you, Clem! A buddy spent six months with Taurus, back and forth back and forth with a 44mag Taurus revolver. They never did get the thing working right. He got so pissed off that he now hangs the POS in his shop as an example to anybody who asks of how bad Taurus revolvers are, and how ineffective their customer service is. At last counting, there are over 40 potential purchasers of Taurus revolvers (and pistols) who will NEVER buy a Taurus product. When are companies like Taurus gonna learn that even ONE dis-satisfied customer can spell big problems?

Dave Workman
September 10, 2011, 11:10 AM
Waitaminute...
I may have missed it, but lemme see if I have this straight..
This shop was peddling a gun they KNEW to be defective and telling the customers THEY could ship it back to Taurus for repairs???

What, was this Mel's Midnight Street Corner gun sales or something?

No reputable shop would have such a gun on display. THEY should have sent it back for repairs or replacement.

These guys should never get a penny of ANYBODY's money for pulling a stunt like that.

I find that simply astonishing.

PapaG
September 10, 2011, 02:04 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Taurus turns their repairs around in a hurry. Problem is that it often isn't done right the first time and sometimes they don't even address what was wrong and "fixed" something else. Case in point: Judge with vastly oversize chamber throats, leading horribly. Talked to tech. Gave him update on what the problem was. Gave him the dimensions. He agreed that it needed a new cylinder. We shipped with letter. Got it back with the notation, "Not aligned properly. Adjustment made." Didn't do a thing about the cylinder, still leads. Unhappy customer for us. We'll try again.
Number one manufacturer for returns for warranty work from our shop: Taurus. Mainly small frame guns, and Judges. Large frame guns, autos and trackers are fairly uniform in working as we get them.

trikster
September 10, 2011, 04:02 PM
Shop near me that is like that, they are selling refinished guns at new prices. This shop also has a history of losing consignment guns. The shop went from being my first stop to my very last resort in a month.

Glad you passed on it. I would have been laughing uproariously on the way out the door, telling every customer on the way out what they tried to pull.

Mike1234567
September 10, 2011, 04:54 PM
I bought the one below for $550 shipped to my FFL.

Like New 8-3/8" With Manual/Papers, Simmons 2-6 Scope, and 4 Snap Caps... Only a Few Rounds Through It (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=243695835)

The above is to illustrate why I would have passed up the deal you mentioned. Better deals are definitely available.

Panzercat
September 11, 2011, 12:46 AM
Well crap. I'll just start up my own store that sells nothing but broken firearms, sell them at full price and provide the same warranty disclaimer.

Meh, you can get a .44 mag anywhere and from a reputable dealer who can sell working products. Don't look back.

Inebriated
September 11, 2011, 01:26 AM
I had a similar experience... I walked into a small shop and asked if they had an 870 HD in stock... Bubba goes back, pulls out a 24" or 26" wood/blue MOSSBERG 500, and says "Yeah, $600 will cover it." I laughed, and another guy comes out of the back and says "Isn't that Tom's gun?" Bubba looks at it... "I think it might be." I left and have cost them at least 6 potential customers. It's bad "businesses" like this and OP's experience that makes me just go to the bigger stores.

orionengnr
September 11, 2011, 07:14 PM
I would post the name of the shop as a public service.
That way all of us could avoid the shysters.

Coal Dragger
September 11, 2011, 08:11 PM
I wouldn't buy a used Raging Bull with scratches and dings for $500.00 even if it were in working order when a new one can be had for a mere $60 more. To find it out of proper working order and being told I could send it in myself would probably result in me openly laughing in the face of whomever made the suggestion.

Big Juan
September 11, 2011, 08:15 PM
"let the buyer beware" The Better Business Bureau or your local Chamber of Commerce might be interested.

Jaymo
September 11, 2011, 08:35 PM
My 1994 Taurus 4" 44 mag outshoots my friend's S&W 4" 629. Mine has a much better trigger and is more accurate. Mine is box stock. His has been to Magna Port.
Mine cost a lot less. Taurus makes very good guns.
Anyone can post anything on the internet. There sure a lot of people crapping on Taurus online, but you don't know the whole story about their guns.
They could be like the guy I used to know who shot ungodly hot handloads through his 669VR .357, and made his ears bleed the last time he shot it without protection.
I wasn't there when it happened. I avoid shooting with people who are trying to blow their guns up.
To Taurus' credit, he never damaged that gun with those loads. His ears were shot after that last time.
Out of the 9 or 10 Taurus guns I've owned, I've never had a single problem.
I've never had a single problem with any of my Rugers, either, except for a second hand Mini 30 I bought that has a pitted gas piston from the previous owner shooting corrosive ammo in it. Even with that, it cycled flawlessly.
The only problem I had with it is that it didn't like Russian primers and often required 2 strikes to light them. A stiffer hammer spring would fix it, but I just use it with Boxer primed ammo.

No way would I buy a broken gun for almost the same price as new.

If you enjoyed reading about "Passed up a Raging Bull.... Would you?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!