[StrikeFire83]

The Situation
Person X buys an new autoloader, paying roughly $900 for it. Person X takes his new gun to the range and it consistently fails to return to battery over the course of 150 rounds of FMJ ammo. The ammo is within spec, not part of a bad lot, and functions flawlessly in the person's other guns of the same caliber. Person X is good-natured, but somewhat new to handguns, so he heads to his favorite internet gun forums for advice.

The Advice
"Well, that gun is really "tight." You need to shoot 500 rounds through it, and only THEN should you send it back to the manufacturer for service if it's still malfunctioning."

"Hmm, well, you should try a different brand of magazines. Sometimes the manufacturer's OEM magazines that came with your new $900 gun really suck."

"Are you sure you aren't limp-wristing?"

"Maybe you don't have enough money to own this particular platform, because you can't get a really good one of these for less than $2000."

The Question
What model of gun does Person X own?

[rcmodel]

I can see where this is going.

If you don't like 1911's, just say so! :D

rc

[StrikeFire83]

^ Without necessarily admitting that you've answered the problem correctly, :neener:, I really WANT to like the 1911.

And the one brand that I've pretty much been told turns out incredibly reliable ones, just had a pretty disheartening range report posted about it.:banghead:

[HOOfan_1]

I have a 1911 that probably cost $150 brand new 35 years ago. Has 15,000+ rounds through it and I can't remember a failure to feed. Remember a stove pipe or two related to underpowered reloads.

[ugaarguy]

Kahr Arms, or Kimber.

[StrikeFire83]

I have a 1911 that probably cost $150 brand new 35 years ago. Has 15,000+ rounds through it and I can't remember a failure to feed. Remember a stove pipe or two related to underpowered reloads.

Well, if I had a time machine, I'd go back to about 1954 and buy one direct from Colt. Sadly, I don't and can't. If the used Colts I always see were anywhere near affordable and Colt honored the warranty for the 2nd or 3rd (or 10th) owner, I'd probably buy one.

[Pizzagunner]

A few things:

1) You don't have to spend $2k or more to get a no excuses reliable 1911A1.

2) However, when you spend under $1k, you'd better do your homework and know the design well enough that you understand the trade-offs involved in going "cheap."

3) The further you stray from the 1911A1 and into 1911 shaped objects with external extractors, weird firing pin safeties, and full length guide rods, the more likely it is that you'll encounter glitches.

4) There is no substitute for knowing the platform backward and forwards when it comes to troubleshooting it. It is indeed the case that poor magazines are the leading cause of trouble in the 1911. A close second is the mismanufacture of the extractor, usually in the making of it out of bar stock, or even MIM, rather than properly tempered and milled spring steel.

[Robbins290]

Springfield armory 1911a1 gi spec has never failed me yet. And will eat 250-500 rounds in one day and not have a malfunction. $500 brand new

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Kimber, what do I win?

[Nushif]

The only problem I have with my 450 dollar RIA officer size with the dreaded full length guide rod is that I can't afford the magazines right now to make it lock back the slide 100% reliably.
It really does seem that the sub-1k crowd is a crap shoot.

[StrikeFire83]

Kimber, what do I win?

Well, I was thinkin' the 1911 in general, but since you named a brand....

You win a KIMBER CUSTOM DELTA DESERT ULTRA RAPTOR DONKEY II!!!

[Fishslayer]

Kimber, what do I win?

LOL. That was my first guess.:D

They're tight from the box because they employ the finest machinists this side of Germany and their tolerances are such that thousands of years from now archaelogists will be speaking of Ancient Astronauts!

OTOH my $500 1911 (guess the brand;)) ran 100% out of the box with FMJ (AFTER I tossed the factory mag). But it's not nearly as good & ya get what ya pay for. Or so I'm told. ;)

[StrikeFire83]

^ At $500, I'd guess Rock Island Armory or used Springfield.

[Zerodefect]

Another Kimber thread? Get over it allready.

Plan A: You get a good cheap Kimber, RRA, Rem, Ruger, or Springy. (Yay)
Plan B: You get a bad one and send it back. (Boo)
Plan C: You get a bad one and fix it yourself. (Meh)
Plan D: You choose to reduce your chances of getting a bad one by buying a higher end 1911 from someone else that spends more time trying to get a better product out the door. (Yay)

Pick one.

I picked plan C once, and plan D once.

[Zerodefect]

Well, I was thinkin' the 1911 in general, but since you named a brand....

You win a KIMBER CUSTOM DELTA DESERT ULTRA RAPTOR DONKEY II!!!

"Ultra Donkey III" would be awesome scribed into the slide of a 1911!

[Sapper771]

Kimber. BTDT.

[StrikeFire83]

Another Kimber thread? Get over it allready.

I never specified Kimber, people are making that determination on their own.

I was hinting at 1911s though. ;)

[*NOVA*]

I might be rather self-centered and paranoid, but it sure sounds like OP is thinking of my SW1911 TRS. Yeah, sure I asked folks for advice on forums, but I ain't no dummie - I have already contacted CS at SW and will let y'all know what they say. Meanwhile, I LOVE my SW - it is so dead on target, I swear it has made me a more accurate shooter. To me it is worth every penny and I have no buyers remorse whatsoever! :neener:

[StrikeFire83]

^ You're not paranoid, I was kinda of referencing your post. ;)

Trust me though, I don't think you're a dummy at all.

From my original post: Person X is good-natured, but somewhat new to handguns, so he heads to his favorite internet gun forums for advice.

Glad you like your S&W 1911. It's on the short list for my next gun, it just sucks that you have to deal with issues right out of the box. I'm very interested seeing how it all pans out.

[kozak6]

I was hoping for an actual match problem :(.

[ExTank]

Springfield armory 1911a1 gi spec has never failed me yet. And will eat 250-500 rounds in one day and not have a malfunction. $500 brand new

Yup. Got a very good deal on an Operator last year (a bit more than $500 :rolleyes:, but much less than MSRP) and it's a beast (in the good sense of the word).

[Skylerbone]

Was contemplating which combination of Ruger pistols added up to that amount...

For all the "What should I buy?" threads out there there should be as many "Do you know what you're looking at?" answers. Maybe I'm a lucky man, or have a discriminating eye but with the exception of a .22 auto and a muzzleloader I have never had a firearm fail. My collection includes some 60+ year olds up to modern S&Ws and Colts.

Just because the liarnet says it's great doesn't make it so. Open it up, bring a bore light, look down the barrel, examine the feed ramp, field strip it before the salesman can stop you and look some more. That after you have done some research and made a determination on what to exclude.

I understand that 1911s are expensive relative to Glocks but then they don't pop them out of a mold. They don't drop the pieces in and call it a day either.

[*NOVA*]

^ .... I'm very interested seeing how it all pans out.

I'll make a prediction. There are several points inside the1911 that owners say they always lubricate. I only oiled the slide rails per the owner's manual. Did not oil the barrel lugs, barrel link, or guide rod. My prediction is that once properly oiled, it will show an improvement in performance. Wording this post carefully, because I'll share another tidbit with you folks. I'm a QA Engineer with about 30 years of failure analysis experience. Not in the habit of making statements I can't back up with some sort of reasoning.
Somewhat new to guns, true, but half a lifetime ago I was a machinst at an engineering and consulting firm. So for any of you folks under 30, I knew about manufacturing tolerances before you were born!

One trick a person making a career in Quality Assurance learns is to get Subject Matter Experts to share their knowledge. I've never been afraid to ask. After gathering information to the point it starts to get redundant, I am better prepared to make informed decisions. Did I know everything about the S&W before I bought it? No, not everything. But I did enough research that the risk of buying a lemon was very low.

I am gathering information on the mode of failure (not going into full battery) and developing theories for the most likely causes based on statistical data and my own observations.


My desire to learn as much about firearms is almost insatiable. I love guns. I like the way they feel, sound and look. And I'd say 90 percent of what I know about them is because of people like you. :)

[357 Terms]

:confused: I got my calculator out for this thread...

[Skribs]

This isn't a math problem, it's a Jeopardy question...erm, actually a Jeopardy answer.

[*NOVA*]

:confused: I got my calculator out for this thread...
Here's a math problem:
45 cal FMJs are $17.50 a box of 50 rounds and a Hornady LnL costs about $500.00, not counting supplies. Assuming you'll save about 70% by loading your own ammo, how many rounds will you have to load before you recover the cost of the initial investment? :cool:

[mokin]

FOURTY-TWO!

No, this is kind of an interesting thread. I don't own a 1911 but I've shot plenty and I've always got my eyes open for a "deal". Some day I would like to own one. From everything I've read on this forum and seen at the range all I can say is there don't seem to be any hard and fast rules.

[357 Terms]

well thanks NOVA. I was needing #'s

Since I do reload and I can get 500 for 63$ I guess I don't need math skills.

[Ro1911]

way way easy question 1911

you just summed up why I don't like them any more

[montgomery381]

It sounds like some variety of Kimber.

[Ro1911]

when he said the thing about crappy mags I went oh kimber, or SA but for $900 I'm hoping your right about it being a kimber, Ha!

[Hangingrock]

The problem with the 1911/A1 is not the basic design but rather the multitude of profiteers producing / manufacturing their flavor.