H335 or Varget for .223 target loading


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codefour
September 15, 2011, 03:48 AM
Tomorrow (pay day is finally here!!), I am going to place an order with Powder Valley Inc. I just recently and finally bought my first AR-15. It is a 16 inch M-4 style with a 1:7 twist rate. I searched this matter in the forum but got mixed reults that did not really answer my questions.

So my question for THR inmates is: Would you rather use H335 or Varget for 223 loading? I am only going to use it for target shooting out to 300 meters. My bullets used will be either a 55g FMJ-BT or a 68/69 BTHP.

Which powder meters better? It will be loaded on my RCBS Pro 2000 which has a Uniflow on top.

Which have you guys/gals found to be the more accurate poswer in an AR-15? I am also open to other suggestions.

Thanks in advance.

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ArchAngelCD
September 15, 2011, 04:43 AM
I have used both in my 223 ammo with a 55gr bullet. While H335 worked very well I was able to produce sub 1/2MOA groups at 100 yards in a bolt action rifle using Varget. A few guys I know have gotten better results with H335 than Varget so you will probably have to try both in your rifle to determine which will work better for you.

evan price
September 15, 2011, 06:18 AM
It depends. I have used both. I like H335 because it flows better in my progressive press powder measure than Varget does for more consistent charges. However Varget has been a more accurate powder.

What I do is use Varget for the smaller lots of accurate ammo which I do in the turret at a slower pace, and H335 for the "blasting" ammo in the progressive where I don't have to worry about powder drop consistency as much..

Walkalong
September 15, 2011, 08:39 AM
My bullets used will be either a 55g FMJ-BT or a 68/69 BTHP. It won't matter with the 55 Gr FMJ's, and you will just have to see which your gun likes with the others. Both are good powders. If I was going to go with one for an AR for general use, I would go with H335. Some folks swear by Varget and heavier bullets in the AR for more serious target work.

55 Gr FMJ and serious target shooting do not go together. Any decent solid base bullet will out shoot them by a mile. Great for plinking cause they are cheap, but accurate they are not. :)

Grumulkin
September 15, 2011, 09:08 AM
http://www.orchardphoto.com/h5uz245.jpg

I worked up this load for my AR-15 with a 1:7 twist and it just happens to shoot very well in my 1:10 twist bolt action rifle as well.

cheep
September 15, 2011, 09:46 AM
If metering well is more important-H335, if accuracy is more important-varget, loose the 55gr bullets and go with 69gr or heavier for that 1:7.

amlevin
September 15, 2011, 11:10 AM
For the 55gr bullet I'd go with H-335. Definitely H-335 if using a progressive press.

If you go with heavier bullets the Varget then would get my vote.

I have also had great results with AA-2230. Burns cleaner than the Hodgdon products in my three AR's. Cleaning is far easier with the 2230 and it meters in all my powder measures far better than the Varget.

RustyFN
September 15, 2011, 11:34 AM
I shoot a 16" AR with a 1:9 twist and use H-335. I am using Hornady 55 grain FMJ-BT bulk bullets with 25 grains of H-335. These targets were set up at 120 yards.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1db34b3127ccefd4baa81b77d00000030O00DZOGblm4Yg9vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1db34b3127ccefd4a03b256fe00000030O00DZOGblm4Yg9vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1db34b3127ccefd4bc83136cc00000030O00DZOGblm4Yg9vPhI/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

I just bought a rest. I'm sure with a little tweaking and getting used to the rest I will be able to shrink these a little more.

Sin City Shootist
September 15, 2011, 12:33 PM
Wow, that's a pretty healthy spread in burn rates. I don't know if I would go with Varget but the H335 is a great powder for a AR15. One of the 4895 powders would also be a good choice. If you are on a budget, I just picked up 8# of WC844 which is very similar to H335 for $85.00 plus hazmat and shipping over at Pat's Reloading.

Miata Mike
September 15, 2011, 01:10 PM
If you are on a budget, I just picked up 8# of WC844 which is very similar to H335.

I too use H335 at 24.5 to 25.0 grains with 55 grain fmj, and have also used WC844 as a very economical substitute for H225. Haven't loaded with Varget yet, but the small ball powders like H335 and WC844 meter like water.

Captaingyro
September 15, 2011, 02:45 PM
Here's another consideration: are you going to be loading any other rifle calibers?
Varget is about as close as you can get to a "universal" powder for military calibers. It will do very well in the .30-06 for 1903's and M1's. It's solid in .308/7.62. And, as you've seen, it's no slouch in .223/5.56.

If you want to keep just one powder on the shelf, consider Varget.

kelbro
September 15, 2011, 03:49 PM
Here's another consideration: are you going to be loading any other rifle calibers?
Varget is about as close as you can get to a "universal" powder for military calibers. It will do very well in the .30-06 for 1903's and M1's. It's solid in .308/7.62. And, as you've seen, it's no slouch in .223/5.56.

If you want to keep just one powder on the shelf, consider Varget.

Key point there. Another one is temperature sensitivity. H335 tends to increase pressure quite a bit when it's hot outside and decrease when it's cold. Not a big deal if you develop your loads during the season that you are shooting in.

Varget is less temperature sensitive.

rcmodel
September 15, 2011, 04:12 PM
Alliant's new AR-COMP powder seems like something worth trying.
http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/ar_comp.aspx

rc

Strykervet
September 15, 2011, 04:35 PM
I like Varget. For all the reasons listed on here basically.

animator
September 16, 2011, 12:19 AM
I shoot H335 exclusively in my ARs.


It meters very consistently, and has produced sub-moa results with a variety of bullets in 55gr weights. Hornady A-max, SMK, and Nosler Varmints have all performed outstandingly well with H335.


Varget has produced good results as well, but H335 has proven to be the better choice in my AR rifles.

Txhillbilly
September 16, 2011, 01:03 AM
I use both,and also have very good results with BL-C(2).

codefour
September 16, 2011, 01:36 PM
Thanks for all the responses.. I ordered and eight pound jug of Varget and a 1 pound can of H335 for comparison purposes.

jack44
September 16, 2011, 04:36 PM
I get good results using varget in my 223 and 308

wanderinwalker
September 16, 2011, 06:04 PM
For use to 300-yards, my favorite recipe is either Varget with a 69 or 77gr Nosler HPBT match bullet, or Reloder 15 with the same bullets. Hard to pick. I know, that's 4 different combinations to try, before picking primers! :eek:

For use out to 100/200 yards, my go-to load is a 52gr match bullet (Hornady, Nosler, Sierra) and Winchester 748 ball powder.

But since you have 8-lbs of Varget, get yourself some 69gr Noslers or Sierras (or 68gr Hornadys) and try between 24-25 grains of Varget. If you can't get a good group with something in that range, tomato stake your barrel and get a new one.

aerod1
September 16, 2011, 06:12 PM
I use H-335 and have had good performance with it.

M1key
September 16, 2011, 06:16 PM
Big fan of Varget here...24.5 gr Varget with 75 Hornady or 77 Sierra Match

So are these guys (gathered from various websites)

Disclaimer: use these loads at your own risk

24.5 grains Varget or RE15 with Sierra 77 or Hornady 75 is a good load.

24.5gr Varget with a 69 Sierra, 77gr Sierra or 75gr A-Max (the 75 A-Max loaded long for 600) all work great for Service Rifle

I am using 24.5 varget with the same bullet in LC brass with no issues at all and it is good to 600yds in my service rifle.

I'm using 25.0 Varget seated mag length with Rem 7 1/2 primers & LC brass. getting close to just shy of 2700 fps.
18" Douglas barrel w/ 1:8 twist.

My rifle loves 24.5 gr of varget with the 77smk.

23.8 - 24 gr of Varget with the 77 is a pretty standard load. Your 1-7 should like them alot. I doubt you'd see a meaningful difference between the VV and Varget for practical applications.

I've made a lot of good hits on paper and steel out to 850 with 24.2 of RE15 and 77 SMKs (2,632 / 18" Noveske); but I think 69s are more accurate in close.

The 80gr projectiles will never shoot from the 9 twist but i have shot heaps of 75 A Max projectiles form 9 twists with good results. as some rem barrels are buttoned they can get button slippage and end up over 9 twist. The 75gr Hornady HPBT and the 77gr Sierra are both proven performers in 9 twist 223 so if you cant get the A Max to stabalise try them the Hornadys have been as accurate as the Sierra 69gr.

Yea, another thread. Basically I am looking for anyone who's had success running 24.5grs of varget behind a 77gr SMK.

Yep. You can also use 24.5 for your 80s for 600.

I use 24.5 for 69's and 24.0 for 75's and 77's.

I settled on 24.2grains of Varget for mag length ammo using 69 or 77gr Noslers (or Sierra's).

In my 223 bolt guns 22 to 23 grains of Benchmark shines. Benchmark also works in the AR's, I just have a lot of Varget on hand and it always works well in the AR.

I get very good accuracy using 24.5gr Varget and 77gr SMK loaded to magazine length, but have found even better accuracy all the way to 25.3gr.
I used to use 24.5 for many years with very good accuracy, then moved up to 25.0 for my load now. Both are more accurate than I can hold. It goes where ever it is pointed with boringly repeatable regularity.

Varget 24.2gr has been very good to me, and shoots sub MOA in three different ARs.

Yea, another thread. Basically I am looking for anyone who's had success running 24.5grs of varget behind a 77gr SMK.
Thanks

Exact load I use for my 1-7" rifles. Great results.
Yup, just got back from the range. Gotta say, I do like the new recipe. 24.5 grs is my new base load for the 77's.

i meant to pm you back, but i started working up the load a bit more and it seems that the higher over 24 gr i went the worse the grouping started to get. Didn't notice a difference too much in 24 and 24.2 but 24.3-24.5 i noticed my groups starting to seperate a little bit. Still sub moa but had an average of .540moa with the 24gr and .82 with over 24.3gr. I am thinking for the way i load mine at least 24 is the sweet spot for my setup.

27gr of varget with those 55gr vmax's loaded to 2.235 oal and they are sub moa everytime.

25gr's of Benchmark, Rem 7.5 primers, LC or Win brass, at 2.255" is a sub MOA load and shoots very well from all the rifles I've tried it in, that's my 55gr V-max load since Benchmark meters so much better than Varget, I can crank them out on the progressive and have a **** load of sub MOA critter/paper blasters in no time flat.

What's your load in 55's, 69's and 77's with Varget?

I'm at 26.5 with a 55 grain Hornady SPT. Just out of curiosity for those of you with Chronographs, what velocity are you getting with 26.5 or 27 grains of Varget with a 55 grain bullet in a 1/9 twist 16" bbl?

I worked up to 24.5 with the 77 grain canelured bullet. Be careful and start with 23.5 or so.

EDIT: For a 16" 1/9, the accuracy load for 69g sierra HPBT is 25.3g of varget. I have seen many posts from people using a similar load with good to excellent results.

Hornaday 55 gr FMJBT, 27.0 grs Varget.
SS-109, 62 gr FMJBT, 26.5 grs Varget.
Hornaday 68 gr BTHP, 24.5 grs Varget.
I use LC same year brass, Wolf SRM primers.

I worked up to these loads, and they are safe and accurate in my rifle.
69 gr SMK ---> 24.5 gr Varget
55 gr FMJ ---> 26.7 gr Varget
That is all I shoot in .223 anymore these days.

77gr Match King, 24.5 gr Varget with a Remington 7 1/2 small primer.
Case: Win new or x1
Bullet: 69 SMK
primer: Rem 71/2
powder: Varget 25.3
OAL = 2.261
AR15 - Krieger brl, 26 in, SS, match chamber, fluted
DPMS upper -'Lo-Pro" ...no FA
RRA lower - 2 stage trigger
Magpul PRS stock
Young NM lite carrier and bolt
Solid 0.5 MOA from 100 yds all day if Im up to it
200 yds...1-1.5 inch 5 shot groups

Winchester 223 brass
24.0 gr Varget
80 gr berger VLD seated .005 off the lands
Winchester SR primer
shoot under .443 5 shot group in my 24" shaw super match bull barrel
shoots .557 with 80 gr SMK

M

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