Accurizing a GLOCK


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joed
September 16, 2011, 08:50 AM
Can a GLOCK be accurized? I've noticed the barrel on the GLOCK is somewhat sloppy. Can it be made accurate like a 1911 or is that a waste of time?

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41
September 16, 2011, 09:10 AM
I've never shot with one, but I hear that lone wolf barrels have tighter tolerances than the glock barrel. I'm not sure if it increases accuracy though. I can't do it very often, but I have shot 3 shot groups at 10-15 yards where all three holes were touching each other. So I think that my glock is already more accurate than I am.

joed
September 16, 2011, 09:48 AM
Actually the wolf barrel is what I'm wondering about. It seems to be sloppier then then the standard barrel.

Sam1911
September 16, 2011, 09:55 AM
What accuracy are you capable of producing with the stock barrel and with the Lon Wolf barrel? What is your goal?

By accurizing, do you mean improving mechanical accuracy (mostly a barrel-to-slide fit question) or total accuracy? Trigger system modifications may help you do a better job of trigger control -- different sights may help you produce a better, more consistent sight picture.

There are lots of improvement parts for Glocks. Don't know of anyone doing bulls-eye tuning for 50 yard competitive accuracy, but I also don't routinely hear of them being inherently in need of accuracy improvement, either.

Robert101
September 16, 2011, 09:56 AM
To answer your question, anything can be made better than originally manufactured.

If I wanted better accuracy than what a standard Glock has to offer I would change the type of gun. I have a Glock (yes just one, I know hard to believe Glock fans) and it's accuracy is good for it's intended use - close range self defense CCW (Glock 27 in 40 cal). Up to about 15 yards with its 3" barrel.

I have 5" SA and Dan Wesson 1911's that I shoot much better with at longer distances. I shoot them at more like 25 + yards.

This in only my rationale and I see no reason for you to not customize your Glock if that is want you want to do. The above is just an alternative view.

joed
September 16, 2011, 11:03 AM
By accurizing, do you mean improving mechanical accuracy (mostly a barrel-to-slide fit question) or total accuracy?

Mechanical accuracy is what I'm referring to. If you push down on the part of the barrel by the ejector port you can see the slop, that barrel will move. None of my accurized 1911's have this slop.

But the GLOCK was not designed for accuracy so I'm wondering if it's worth fooling with.

Sam1911
September 16, 2011, 11:15 AM
Well, I think it would be more correct to say they weren't designed to be a bullseye gun. The average Glock seems to be as accurate as the average 1911. ('Course, the 1911 wasn't designed for accuracy either, by that standard.)

If you're seeing a large amount of play between the slide and barrel at the lockup point, I'd have Glock take a look at it and see if something is wrong.

Chris Rhines
September 16, 2011, 11:22 AM
Bar-Sto claims that you can get 1.25" groups @ 25 yards from one of their match-fit Glock barrels. That's pretty sporty accuracy, and probably better than most stock pistols are capable of.

bds
September 16, 2011, 02:23 PM
Based on my experience, factory Glock 17/22 will produce inherent combat accuracy of about 4.5" average shot groups at 25 yards and Glock 21/30 about 3.0".


Can it be made accurate like a 1911?
No. Many match grade 1911s will have factory accuracy of 1.5" average shot groups at 25 yards, some even smaller.


Can a GLOCK be accurized?
Yes and no. Trigger polish jobs/parts replacement will improve the repeatability of the pistol but will not increase the inherent mechanical accuracy from the factory. Not sure if you are wanting to improve accuracy for match shooting, but Glock's popularity in USPSA/IDPA matches is primarily due to their ability to produce more consistent double taps while maintaining acceptable level of accuracy at 7-20 yards where most targets are placed. You will not find Glocks dominating 25-50 yard slow fire bullseye matches.


Actually the wolf barrel is what I'm wondering about.
My experience with Lone Wolf barrels (both factory replacement and 40-9 conversion barrels) is that they provide comparable level of accuracy with jacketed/plated bullets.

But different for lead bullets. Factory Glock barrels have very smooth rounded (hill/valley) rifling with longer leade (space between the chamber and the start of rifling) that allows more high pressure gas to leak around the bullet before the bearing surface of the bullet engages the rifling and build chamber pressure. Lone Wolf barrels have traditional square cut land/groove rifling with shorter leade that leaks less high pressure gas and allows faster chamber pressure build up. More consistent chamber pressures translate to increased accuracy in terms of average shot group sizes. So for lead bullets, Lone Wolf barrels produce greater accuracy over factory Glock barrels.

I have done comparison range tests with Lone Wolf barrels in Glocks and produced 1.0"-1.5" shot groups at 15 yards off hand depending on bullet type/powder/charge - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7266869#post7266869

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=141045&stc=1&d=1303618922
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=141048&stc=1&d=1303620287

Hangingrock
September 16, 2011, 03:01 PM
Glocks are what they are service grade semiautomatic pistols with acceptable accuracy. There is the “Cottage Industry” that cranks out an assortment of performance enhancement parts according to the various providers of those parts. My preference is to leave the pistol stock except for sights and barrels.

I’m not an advocate of lead bullets with the OEM barrel others are. That said I’m not an advocate either of Lone-Wolf after market barrels.

I use and like Bar-Sto and KKM. In my experience Bar-Sto is not a true drop in barrel and requires minor fitting. Based on my personal usage KKM is exceptionally good and I recommend their products.

Alex23
September 16, 2011, 03:03 PM
I reckon you could 'accurize' one but it would require a fair amount of work on the internals. The question is why would you want to work against the stated design? Glocks are designed as rugged, simple, reliable field pistols - not super accurate target pistols. By the time you got done with a full on effort it would barely be a Glock imo. :neener:

rauchman
September 16, 2011, 04:12 PM
Curious as to what level of accuracy you're looking for? I'm able to obtain 2.5"-3.0" 5 rnd groups at 25 yards on a good day on a G19, G17. I know Todd Green at pistol-training.com was able to produce sub 2" groups on a Gen4 G17.

I find myself as being the limitation on accuracy on a Glock.

Jim Watson
September 16, 2011, 05:25 PM
If you push down on the part of the barrel by the ejector port you can see the slop, that barrel will move. None of my accurized 1911's have this slop.

Do you see that the barrel moves back up when you let go of it?
The Glock barrel is spring loaded into position, unlike your accurized 1911s which are mechanically propped up by the slide stop shaft.

PO2Hammer
September 16, 2011, 05:30 PM
Lone Wolf has hit or miss quality control.

Other than a true match grade barrel like KKM or Bar Sto, there's not much you can do to mechanically acurize a Glock's. You can make the trigger lighter, but that's about it. The rest is snake oil.

Mastering the crappy trigger is the only way.

Don't bother trying to turn it into a 1911.

rhodco
September 16, 2011, 05:35 PM
I have tried all kinds of aftermarket parts on my Glock 30 out of curiosity. The Wolff non-captive recoil springs and guide rod caused binding and failure to return to battery. The Wolff firing pin spring was a little too soft and caused occasional light primer strikes with no bang. The Wolff mag springs folded up inside the mag well after a few thousand rounds and twisted out of shape. The titanium safety plunger button made no difference at all, neither did an aftermarket barrel.

The only thing that made a positive difference was the Trijicon HD night sights and the Peirce mag extensions. The sights are a great improvement and the grip extentions solved my pinky pinch problem and improved my grip. Other than that, I've had to replace everything else with factory Glock parts again to get it back to 100% reliable.

Clean and polish the parts if you like, but leave them all stock Glock factory parts.

Master Blaster
September 16, 2011, 06:10 PM
There is the Glock 34 I have which is quite accurate, as good as I can shoot it, never put it in a ransom rest though. Then there is the 35 in 40S&W these pistols have long slides, light triggers and target sights.

rc109a
September 17, 2011, 05:44 PM
There is the Glock 34 I have which is quite accurate, as good as I can shoot it, never put it in a ransom rest though. Then there is the 35 in 40S&W these pistols have long slides, light triggers and target sights.
What is considered a light trigger in the G35? Mine states that it is 5.5 and that is the same as my G23

Master Blaster
September 17, 2011, 06:53 PM
Apparently glock disagrees with you as the 23 shows a 5.5 lb trigger pull and the 34/35 shows a 4.5 lb, so its a whole pound lighter. I have a G26 and the G34 and the 34 feels much lighter with a shorter reset. I think of it as a two stage pistol trigger when I shoot the 34 so it feels quite different to me.

http://www.glock.com/english/index_pistols.htm


GLOCK CONNECTOR
Get your desired Trigger Pull by using an optional GLOCK connector without detrimentally changing the „Safe Action“ trigger characteristic..



~ 2.0 kg / 4.5 lb. The 2,0 kg / 4.5 lb. connector marked with a small (-) has a softer Trigger Pull compared with the standard options and is particularly popular among sport shooters. Standard with GLOCK 34 and 35.
~ 2.5 kg / 5.5 lb. Most GLOCK pistols are fitted at the factory with 2,5 kg / 5.5 lb Trigger Pull. In this way the trigger characteristics are optimally matched to the needs of most users with a defined point of depression.
~ 3.5 kg / 8.0 lb. The 3,5 kg / 8.0 lb connector is marked with a (+). This is the spring for users appreciating hard "dry" trigger action. It is also characterized by a clearly sensible point of depression.

W.E.G.
September 17, 2011, 07:32 PM
Best thing for you to improve the accuracy of your Glock is for you to shoot a case of ammo through it.

baryon
September 17, 2011, 07:56 PM
Glock doesn't use a barrel-binding design(barrel is slightly thicker at the muzzle) as it exists in Sig P22X, S&W M&P and Taurus autos so the mechanical accuracy is limited by how sloppy the fit is between the barrel hood and the slide.

You can send the slide to Barsto who can custom fit the barrel to slide or you can do it on your if you have the patience.

jackpinesavages
September 17, 2011, 11:41 PM
KKM or Bar Sto, dry firing extensively, range time. Skip LWD products unless they come with the purchase, then sell em off. The 7" KKM I have for my 24C is incredible.

Master Blaster
September 19, 2011, 09:06 AM
Can a GLOCK be accurized? I've noticed the barrel on the GLOCK is somewhat sloppy. Can it be made accurate like a 1911 or is that a waste of time?

Actually if the barrel fit to slide is sloppy and wiggles around when the gun is in battery, meaning the slide is closed, you need to contact glock and send it to them for repair as it has either been damaged or is defective. On both my glocks the barrel has no play at all between the barrel and slide at the muzzle or breach when in battery.

FullEffect1911
September 19, 2011, 09:23 AM
I put a Storm Lake barrel on my G17 mostly to use lead reloads. The benched accuracy puts it right around 2"-3" groups at 25 yards using Missouri Bullet Company's 147 grain flat point lead bullets and WSF powder. Perfect for what I was hoping it would do. I never tested the stock barrel for accuracy but the SL barrel certainly was a little tighter in the slide.

ChCx2744
September 20, 2011, 05:43 PM
There is a man that goes by the name T. R. Graham on GlockTalk. He is the proprietor of a part called the Match Grade Slide Lock. The MGSL is a replacement slide lock made of machine-cut steel, as opposed to the OEM polymer or plastic part. The given space where the bottom of an OEM GLOCK barrel locks up with the slide lock is a bit thinner, therefore securing barrel lock-up a bit tighter than it would normally with a stock slide lock. That being said, I've also personally tested this part myself and my groups have tightened up considerably (To throw a number out there, I'd say about 25% tighter!).

Here is the link if anyone is interested. I highly recommend this part for any GLOCK owner, I have one in all of mine.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=851754

Zerodefect
September 20, 2011, 06:08 PM
The match grade slide lock is just a thicker piece of steel than the stock part. Yes it works.

The Glock barrel is supposed to drop down when you push on it. It isn't locked in as tightly as a 1911. It souldn't have side play though.

A Glockworx comp spring kit, Lone Wolf 3.5 connector, Glockworx Fulcrum Trigger, Ti FP safety, and stock striker spring are a good combo. Sometimes I'll run a softer striker spring though.

GLOOB
September 21, 2011, 12:34 PM
It would seem to me that the biggest leak in inherent accuracy is the fit of the slide to the frame. So if the MGSL tightens that up, I want.

9teenEleven
September 21, 2011, 02:42 PM
Per the LWD barrels. They are no better or worse than stock Glock barrels. The only reason I see to get one is so you can get an inexpensive threaded barrel (My reason) or so you can get an inexpensive barrel to shoot lead if you reload.

mes228
September 21, 2011, 07:51 PM
Personal opinion from owning and shooting various Glock's. They are all quite accurate, at least those I've owned and fired. However it's difficult to obtain that accuracy because of the trigger. With a learning curve somewhat longer than other pistols. The factory trigger is a good combat trigger and a not so good target trigger. Nothing approaches a good 1911 for accuracy and ease of wringing it from the pistol.

thefamcnaj
September 21, 2011, 07:58 PM
Glock seems as accurate as can be out of the box to me. If I knew how to post pics on a computer(sorry guys only know how to type) I'd show the groups I can get at 20 yards. The gun is more accurate than I am. I shoot the g23 better than any of the models I have.
Hickok45 can routinley het from 80 yards with a sub compact glock. He even has one video of hitting from 230 yards with the g27.
Anytime I take the glocks to the range with any other brand of gun I own, the glock is always more accurate. I out shoot my hk's and my ruger sr series pistols with my glocks. I don't know if thats a testimeant to the accuracy of the gun or if its just what I'm most practiced with.

The_Armed_Therapist
September 22, 2011, 09:40 AM
Is this a joke? With the dozens of handguns that I've shot in my life, my Glock 22 is THE most accurate that I've shot. Perhaps some of that has to do with it being a good fit for me, personally... but that doesn't explain away being able to hit the same hole over and over and over again. I've shot a few 1911s and they were similar at best to the accuracy of my Glock.

bds
September 22, 2011, 10:42 AM
With the dozens of handguns that I've shot in my life, my Glock 22 is THE most accurate that I've shot.
Factory stock G17/G22 have been my match pistols and they outshoot MOST other factory semi-autos in slow fire, rapid fire (front sight flash) and double-taps at 7-20 yards.

But the OP is inquiring about accurizing Glocks in reference to 1911 level of accuracy.

This is not doable as inherent factory built-in mechanical accuracy was not designed/engineered to achieve the level of accuracy many match grade 1911 achieve out of the box.

My experience/observation with various semi-autos has been that Glocks can be accurized (trigger/barrel) to produce about 2.5"-3.0" average shot groups at 25 yards but many sub $500-$1000 1911s can produce this level of accuracy out of the box. Some 1911s in this price range (either factory or with some accurizing work) can produce sub 1" to 1.5" average shot groups at 25 yards. Personally, I have not seen such shot groups ever produced by a Glock.

Many have claimed accuracy of their "highly modified" Glocks at the ranges/matches but when put to actual range tests (I consider 3-5 consecutive targets an acceptable repeatable accuracy, not once-in-a-while fluke shot group), it ends up being that they improved the repeatability and smoothness of factory accuracy but could not come close to 1911 level of accuracy.

My personal best averages have been 3.0" shot group with G21/G30 (stock), 2.0"-2.5" with M&P45 (trigger job) and 1.5" with various 1911s (factory/modified).

socalbeachbum
June 26, 2013, 12:31 PM
Do Glock 34 owners see a difference in the KKM barrels vs the Bar-Sto? or are they similar quality and accuracy?

ku4hx
June 27, 2013, 07:31 AM
The only Glock "accurizing" I've done is to replace a couple of connectors and triggers and do a few 25˘ trigger jobs.

The trigger on my Gen4 19 was heavier than optimal for me so I replaced the stock connector the 4.5# connector. That connector was formally referred to as the 3.5# connector. This improved the trigger pull significantly and my groups shrank accordingly. As soon as it arrives, I'm doing the same on my G23 with a Ghost "Ranger" 4.5# connector. I'm expecting the same improvement but we'll see.

I also replace the grooved trigger assembly on my G26 and G27 with the smooth faced variety. Shooting is now less wearing on my trigger finger and I can maintain smaller groupings longer. Maybe can't really call this and the connector replacements "accurizing" in the traditional sense, but doing so helped me.

The 25˘ trigger jobs did basically nothing. Trigger pulls were no worse but then I didn't do any really aggressive polishing. The shiny little parts look nice though.

I've seen third party trigger assemblies for Glocks that are supposed to improve shootability and thereby accuracy. They are in the range of $250 each and, quite frankly, the marginal gain my experience tells me they'd provide is simply not worth it.

I also have a bunch of Lone Wolf barrels and they work fine. Their chambers are, in fact, tighter than my OEM barrels, but if they're more accurate than the Glock barrels I can't tell it.

Glocks are combat weapons with combat accuracy and there's a reason for that. If you have to have a home defense piece that shoots 1" at 50 yards, start out with one that will do that and not try and turn a sow’s ear into a silk purse. A good, tuned 1911 immediately comes to mind.

hk-sigman
June 27, 2013, 06:23 PM
Accuracy is a funny thing. Odds are that the gun came from the factory being far more accurate than you can shoot...I don't know what model Glock you have but caliber will play a major role in accuracy. Not because one caliber is more accurate than another one but because you may not shoot some calibers as well as others. To be honest you should practice, practice and then practice some more rather than replacing parts in the hopes that they will make you a better shooter.

My Gen4 Glock 19 has up and down movement in the barrel when locked up and I can put an entire magazine into one hole at 10 yards. That's pretty damn accurate from the factory.

wkuban
June 28, 2013, 12:19 AM
How you gonna improve on PERFECTION?

ku4hx
June 28, 2013, 06:55 AM
To be honest you should practice, practice and then practice some more rather than replacing parts in the hopes that they will make you a better shooter.
This is true, but triggers do vary, some are quite bad and "trigger jobs" have been a standard gun smithing task for decades.

The trigger on my 1991 vintage Gen2 Glock 20 is smooth and about as good as it gets at 5.2#. The trigger on my Gen4 19 was heavy and "jerky". It measured just shy of 8# and it had the standard connector ... 5.5# I think it's called.

With time, practice and patience you can certainly overcome a "bad" trigger. But when a Glock trigger "fix" is nothing more than replacing the connector, as it was with my Gen4 19, it's a worthwhile thing to do.

Lone Wolf has Glock 5# connectors $5 right now. I think I paid $14-$15 for the 4.5# one.

tarosean
June 28, 2013, 08:57 AM
Hickok45 can routinley het from 80 yards with a sub compact glock. He even has one video of hitting from 230 yards with the g27.

He has hit that 3' gong with a Jframe or Taurus m85. (?) I certainly would have better luck hitting it by throwing that gun at the gong.


Personally instead of tossing money at a gun to make it accurate, I would rather buy one that is already known to be...

hentown
June 28, 2013, 09:20 AM
Lots of unadulterated horsehockey in this thread! :rolleyes:

I've had excellent experience with Wolff springs and guide rods, and I've fired over 300,000 rounds through my Glocks, mostly using Wolff springs and guide rods .

The factory Glock slide lock is made of steel! JHC!! Where does some of this ignorant drivel come from? :what:

I've also had excellent experience with LWD barrels, connectors, and other products. Recently received a threaded LWD barrel for my G17, and the fit, finish, and accuracy are super.

I install aftermarket connectors in all my Glocks...can't stand the the pull of any of the Glock factory connectors.

I'd hazard a guess that any accuracy problems that the OP is experiencing could be cured by proper tuning of the nut behind the trigger. :evil:

ku4hx
June 28, 2013, 09:31 AM
Personally instead of tossing money at a gun to make it accurate, I would rather buy one that is already known to be...
Way back in the early days of my shooting obsession, I acquired a number of Smith and Wesson revolvers. Recently my wife wanted to try one. She's a relatively new shooter and up until that point she shot only semi auto hand guns. I pulled out one of my old Smith model 19s. It's a deep blued beauty with one of the best triggers I've ever felt. The double action pull is as smooth as the proverbial butter. The single action breaks at a hair over 3.5# and there is no creep or over travel. And it came that way and it's not a performance center gun. Guns at that time were built by craftsmen and not assembly line workers.

To say the least, my wife was most impressed with what is a really, really good trigger. In single action mode, the lockup is solid but you can almost "wish off" the shot.

After shooting it, she asked why semi autos can't have triggers like that. Talk about a simple question with a not so simple answer. But she liked the revolver so much, she bought a GP100. New Wolff springs and a little work with an old stone I have and its trigger is very nice now and the investment was mostly time and springs are cheap. You just have to take your time to get it right and that's a major difference between today's guns and those of my youth with immediate gratification being the norm.

The way I see it today, and I'm guessing you may see it sort of like I do, there are two basic types of guns: combat and target. Or maybe, combat and those that can be realistically and reasonably made to have certain target-like features. And most combat guns will better serve you if you just leave them alone or make your "fixes" true refinements and not wholesale modifications.

tarosean
June 29, 2013, 03:43 PM
The way I see it today, and I'm guessing you may see it sort of like I do, there are two basic types of guns: combat and target. Or maybe, combat and those that can be realistically and reasonably made to have certain target-like features. And most combat guns will better serve you if you just leave them alone or make your "fixes" true refinements and not wholesale modifications.

Pretty much....

I see a lot of posts for triggers this, connecters this, yet only one or two talking about replacing those 0.10 cent sights that Glock should be ashamed of putting on a 500 dollar gun.
The only guns in my home that I havent done trigger work to is my Glocks FWIW.

10mmbowser
March 3, 2014, 02:46 PM
I don't shoot 1911s so I don't know how accurate they are. With a stock Glock 20 (gen3) I can get 1" groups with my laser and sandbags at 25 yds. On my Glock 21 with a complete Glockworx Fulcrum trigger kit (titanium strker), Lonewolf .40 Super conversion barrel, Carver Hunter scope mount, and Nikon Force XR 2x20 on a benchrest, I can get a 3/4" cloverleaf print at 25 yds. As was asked by someone else, what kinda groups are you capable of to begin with? I don't think I can achieve anywhere near that kind of accuracy with open sights, especially the stock sights. ALSO, keep in mind the ammo you test accuracy with, can make a HUGE difference. There are many factors that can affect your precision/accuracy, so you should rule out the ammo aspect by using VERY accurate bullets. XTP bullets from Hornady have a very good reputation for accuracy, and it is what I use test accuracy.

Nom de Forum
March 3, 2014, 02:51 PM
How you gonna improve on PERFECTION?


Damn! You beat me to it!:evil:


Glock "perfection" can be perfected some more by people more than happy to take your money to make perfect more perfecter.:D

G29SF
March 3, 2014, 03:28 PM
My experience with Lone Wolf barrels (for G20 and G29) is they are sloppier than stock. (I also have issues with their manufacturing location being a big secret... but that is another subject.) After sending two LW barrels back, I switched to KKM. Night and day difference in both fit and finish. Can't comment in accuracy between LW and KKM because I sent my LW barrels back before I shot them. I shoot hot 10mm loads and have had zero issues with KKM.

jmr40
March 3, 2014, 06:17 PM
None of mine have needed any work. Can't say the same about all of my 1911's


http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m513/jmr40/001.jpg (http://s1129.photobucket.com/user/jmr40/media/001.jpg.html)

Old Fuff
March 3, 2014, 06:52 PM
The reason that Colt 1911 platform guns can be accurized is because the removable bushing at the front allows the barrel to be pulled forward when the upper unit is being disassembled. On a Glock, and many other pistols the barrel is removed by tilting the barrel down and pulling the barrel out backwards. Thus the Glock has a relatively large hole in the front of the slide to allow this.

At the back the barrel is camed upwards, but with some slack to insure that fouling, dirt (whatever) won't prevent the slide/barrel from going into battery.

Slide-to-frame fit isn't particularly important, but barrel-to-slide fit is.

If maximum accuracy was more important then absolute reliability a Glock could be fitted with a threaded barrel bushing, and the bottom lug on the barrel welded up and custom fitted. The resulting pistol might give Colt's a run for the money, but it would be very expensive, and that's not what Glock's are about anyway.

Also relatively few shooters would be good enough to take advantage of the difference.

Jorzac
March 4, 2014, 03:09 PM
Curious as to what level of accuracy you're looking for? I'm able to obtain 2.5"-3.0" 5 rnd groups at 25 yards on a good day on a G19, G17. I know Todd Green at pistol-training.com was able to produce sub 2" groups on a Gen4 G17.

I find myself as being the limitation on accuracy on a Glock.
This. If you take a $500 1911, a $500 S&W or a $500 Glock, all are usually gonna be "combat accurate". If you compare a $3000 STI race gun against a bone stock Glock, of course the STI is gonna be more accurate. I do think the biggest issue is the individual. Glocks, with their unique triggers, can be harder for some to shoot accurately.

Nom de Forum
March 4, 2014, 03:35 PM
The reason that Colt 1911 platform guns can be accurized is because the removable bushing at the front allows the barrel to be pulled forward when the upper unit is being disassembled. On a Glock, and many other pistols the barrel is removed by tilting the barrel down and pulling the barrel out backwards. Thus the Glock has a relatively large hole in the front of the slide to allow this.

At the back the barrel is camed upwards, but with some slack to insure that fouling, dirt (whatever) won't prevent the slide/barrel from going into battery.

Slide-to-frame fit isn't particularly important, but barrel-to-slide fit is.

If maximum accuracy was more important then absolute reliability a Glock could be fitted with a threaded barrel bushing, and the bottom lug on the barrel welded up and custom fitted. The resulting pistol might give Colt's a run for the money, but it would be very expensive, and that's not what Glock's are about anyway.

Also relatively few shooters would be good enough to take advantage of the difference.

A tighter fit between the muzzle and slide is far less important than the lock-up at the lugs and hood on a 1911. If we had the Glock and not the Beretta I am sure the AMU would have the Glocks shooting just as well and possibly using a bushing for the muzzle/slide fit.

bds
March 5, 2014, 11:32 AM
Can't comment in accuracy between LW and KKM because I sent my LW barrels back before I shot them.

I did a comparison range test between KKM and Lone Wolf 40-9 barrels for another thread and these were my initial results (Not the best groups as I was testing Herco for the thread but same testing platform can produce 1" at 15 yards. I plan on doing further range testing for the thread) - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9375885
Glock 22 with KKM and Lone Wolf 40-9 conversion barrels were used with G17 magazines. All the test rounds were loaded to .378" taper crimp. Shot groups were measured center-to-center. Shooting distance was 10 yards. 20 rounds per bullet/power charge were fired (10 rounds each KKM/LW barrels).

Herco test loads:

115 gr Berry's plated HBRN:
6.1 gr @ 1.155" - 1.04" KKM and 1.20" LW

124 gr Z-Cast lead RN (stepped):
5.2 gr @ 1.160" - 1.12" KKM and 1.50" LW

Picture of shot groups:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=195664&stc=1&d=1393796920

gym
March 5, 2014, 12:45 PM
Your barrel has to move when you press down on it, perhaps this will explain it better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxVWchJt1go,
That is just the way these guns function. Unless you get a gun with a blowback design, or any un movable barrel, Like a Luger or a Ruger 22, the barrel is supposed to move after the shot is fired. You can get the G34,35, 17L, or new 41, and get a longer "probably more accurate" gun because of the sight radius and a bit more fps for the same reason. More like a cross between a 26 and a carbine.

Old Fuff
March 5, 2014, 02:12 PM
When the slide and barrel are fully into battery, you can hand-fit a barrel with an oversized bottom lug so it cams the barrel to the point where there is no detectable movement. However if enough fouling has built up at the top/rear of the barrel the slide may not go into battery.

High accuracy modifications without regard to cost can be done on almost any pistol that is designed to use Browning's short-recoil system. However at some point the increase in accuracy will impact reliability. Take your choice.

mtrmn
March 5, 2014, 04:08 PM
Rather than work on my Glock, I worked on my reloads and tailored my ammo to the gun.

hentown
March 6, 2014, 08:23 AM
I have tried all kinds of aftermarket parts on my Glock 30 out of curiosity. The Wolff non-captive recoil springs and guide rod caused binding and failure to return to battery. The Wolff firing pin spring was a little too soft and caused occasional light primer strikes with no bang. The Wolff mag springs folded up inside the mag well after a few thousand rounds and twisted out of shape. The titanium safety plunger button made no difference at all, neither did an aftermarket barrel.

The only thing that made a positive difference was the Trijicon HD night sights and the Peirce mag extensions. The sights are a great improvement and the grip extentions solved my pinky pinch problem and improved my grip. Other than that, I've had to replace everything else with factory Glock parts again to get it back to 100% reliable.

Clean and polish the parts if you like, but leave them all stock Glock factory parts.
__________________

I probably don't have as much experience with Glocks as you, but I have fired over 300,000 rounds of my reloads through my Glocks. I've used Wolff guide rods and springs for years, with no "binding" or other problems. I've never had a steel guide rod break; have had two Glock factory guide rods break...G30 and G26.

I despise the feel of all Glock factory trigger connectors, so I install various brands of aftermarket connectors in my Glocks. Never have had a connector-related failure.

I do polish all the mating surfaces of the firing mechanisms of my Glocks.

I do own and like a threaded, compensated KKM barrel for my G21. Also own and like Lonewolf barrels. Never noticed a "hit or miss" quality control problem with my LWD barrels. Am using two new, threaded LWD barrels right now, for suppressing my G26 and G17.

My "limited" experiences with my Glocks just don't mirror yours. ;)

Oh, yeah, best groups I ever shot with a handgun @ 100 yds were two sub-5" groups with my G21, outfitted with a threaded, compensated .40 Super barrel. :eek:

LeonCarr
March 6, 2014, 09:10 AM
What mtrmn said.

Tailoring your ammo to the gun works much better. For what some of the aftermarket match grade barrels cost after purchase and fitting by a gunsmith, you can be set up to handload.

IME the greatest accuracy gain is from switching to JHPs for your 9mm handloads. I have seen just switching from FMJ or plated bullets to JHPs cut group size in half, especially if you use Nosler or Sierra JHPs.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Blackhawk30
March 6, 2014, 10:06 AM
Hickok45 routinly hit a gong at 80 yds.I think you need to practice more if you thin a Glock 27 is only good for 15yds.


If I wanted better accuracy than what a standard Glock has to offer I would change the type of gun. I have a Glock (yes just one, I know hard to believe Glock fans) and it's accuracy is good for it's intended use - close range self defense CCW (Glock 27 in 40 cal). Up to about 15 yards with its 3" barrel.

bowhntr04
March 6, 2014, 12:28 PM
I amazed at the accuracy of my g19. Had a 23 that would shoot high beyond 5 yrds. Didn't care for .40 and moved on. Sights and grip aren't the greatests, but overall it's an impressive little gun.

burk
March 6, 2014, 01:27 PM
Too those complaining about the Glock stock trigger, how many $500 poly striker fired guns have better stock triggers? The XD is OK, Ruger SR90? Smith M & P? Yeah right, the FNH? really? Sig 2022 (I know it's not striker)? The reality is the only one out of the box in the same league as the Glock is the XD maybe. And i'd take a Glock stock trigger over the HK's at half the price.

That said, changing the connectors and doing a trigger job are worth it on a Glock (My M & P .45 needed it far more). On my Glock 19 I have gone to a titanium guide rod/steel spring, shock buff, trigger job, weighted mag well plug, oversized slide release, trijicon nights, weighted Mag plates, and JP mag release. It is the most accurate combat pistol I own, although my Kimber Pro CDP will give it a run. I have the stock barrel, and the only way I'd change would be a threaded barrel.

My old Kimber eclipse 5" (had to sell) gave me 1.5" groups at 25 yards, my Glock comes in at 2.5", same as my CDP, not bad with the stock barrel.

jr_watkins
March 6, 2014, 01:41 PM
I left my Glock 27 stock, but decided to experiment with my Glock 22 with the goal of better accuracy. My accuracy isn't near as good as what I read from you guys, but at 15 yards my 50 shot unsupported groups were at about 4 inches consistently.
I installed a Wilson Combat barrel that required fitting. I was fairly patient and used a stone to take off material until it functioned about 80% of the time cycling snap caps. Then I stared shooting, getting plenty of practice clearing jams, and after several range trips and several thousand rounds, it became reliable.
Shot another 50 round group and was at 3 inches at 15 yards. That's a pretty good improvement and well worth the effort I thought. Put the factory barrel back in and shot the same 3 inch group.

Lesson learned, the exercise was a good learning experience, but it was the practice not the hardware that made the difference.

JohnBiltz
March 6, 2014, 02:46 PM
Glocks have been around less than 30 years. I think in 1941 no one would be claiming fantastic accuracy in a 1911. In 1941 people who owned 1911s probably had more in common with Glock owners today than 1911 owners today. Read a thriller from the 50s and 60s and see which characters were carrying 1911s.

I'm not claiming in 30 years Glock will become what the 1911 is today, in fact I think that is unlikely, but to say that it can't is wrong. Gaston is old and you don't know what is coming next.

Old Fuff
March 6, 2014, 03:35 PM
During the 1930’s and 40’s some bullseye match competitors used .45 service pistols in the .45 part of a tournament. They received a handicap if model 1917 revolvers were also being used because of their supposed (if not actual) accuracy advantage. This upset the management at the Colt factory who responded with a new National Match version that was assembled using selected parts, and fitted with better sights and a better trigger pull. Any advantage the stock revolvers had disappeared.

There is no reason that a match grade Glock couldn’t be made, either by the manufacturer or custom shops. This hasn’t happened for two reasons – lack of substantial demand, and higher production costs. As has been noted, some improvement can be realized at far less cost by careful hand loading and selection of ammunition.

gym
March 7, 2014, 11:41 AM
As told by a guy who sells a lot of glocks, when I asked , 'why don't some have night sights", people expect to pay a certain amount for a glock, "whatever the number was then," Maybe $450.00, and the majority of them won't pay another hundred for night sights. So if you want them, I can have my smith put them on for you.
It's a 5-550 dollar gun now and once you go to $600.00 plus tax and call in, the average Joe says wait a minute, I was looking at $500.00, for $650 I will pass.
A lot of everyday folks buy glocks as their first gun, with no idea what they really need or want.

tarosean
March 7, 2014, 12:20 PM
Gaston is old and you don't know what is coming next.



Sure we do. Shorter here, longer there, and now thinner. No real deviation from the original.

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