Expansion of 10mm 200gr Hornady XTP at 1180fps?


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G29
September 16, 2011, 04:14 PM
Expansion of 10mm 200gr Hornady XTP at 1180fps?

I use this for a woods round. I am wanting to learn more about its self defense application.

I understand there are better options for SD. Specific to this round, at this fps, I am wondering how quickly it would expand in at center mass.

Any advise?

Thanks

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rcmodel
September 16, 2011, 04:23 PM
Hornady says that bullet will perform as designed at 700 - 1,200 FPS.

So I'd guess anything you shoot with it is going to stay shot.

XTP's are some of the most consistent deep penetrating / good expanding JHP's you can get.

rc

steve4102
September 16, 2011, 08:31 PM
So I'd guess anything you shoot with it is going to stay shot.

I like that! :)

nastynatesfish
September 17, 2011, 08:38 AM
just remember that the xtp is a HUNTING bullet. if your going to use it for SD/CC pistol id go with a different bullet. i load the 165 xtps for my G20 and love the way they shoot, but remember theyre going to push through a target, if your worried about using it on urban targets you have to worry about over penetration. i use the xtp bullets for hogs and just shooting in general but i use golden saber rounds for carry. also there are certain laws about using reloads for CC purpose, you might want to check up with a local lawyer of police officer about that. i know arizona will get you if you use your weapon for self defense using a reloaded round. just FYI

Eb1
September 17, 2011, 09:11 AM
Can you post a link to the laws? I have never read that as actual law. I have only heard that as opinion.

Thanks.

RandyP
September 17, 2011, 09:37 AM
+1 on citing some case references? All I've ever read on the interwebs refers back to a specific legal argument that Ayoob testified to some time ago that does not generically apply to self defense loads.

There is NO 'law' anywhere about SD and the actual ammo used as far as I can recall reading, though as always I stand ready to be educated by those with facts.

If you shoot someone in self defense in many jurisdictions you may still be open for a personal lawsuit by either the recipient of your bullet or their next of kin. That lawsuit exposure exists regardless of the supplier of the actual rounds fired (store-bought or reloaded).

gofastman
September 17, 2011, 10:11 AM
Also, post links to where you get those 165gr xtp's :confused:

PO2Hammer
September 17, 2011, 11:40 AM
also there are certain laws about using reloads for CC purpose
Yeah, I would like to get some facts on that.
According to an article in Handloader magazine, using hand loads is 100% legal.

FWIW I like the 180 XTP in the G-29, but have never shot anything but paper with it, but it is quite accurate, plus you can use the cheaper 180 HAP for working up loads because it's an XTP sans the nose cuts.

I would think the 180 would open up a little more quickly because you could get a little more velocity. That should also reduce excessive penetration.

GooseGestapo
September 17, 2011, 12:12 PM
I have shot a couple of deer with the 200gr XTP from a S&W 1006. This was back in the early 90's before the 10mm was down loaded to accomodate the Glock Mod20.

My load is a now above max load of Acc#7, but was safe and accurate from MY S&W. It was a published max load circa 1992.
MV was about 1,200fps from 5" bbl of Mod 1006.

It performed perfectly. 3" exit wound on lung shot deer. Deer died quickly. Effect was similar to that from a .30/30 with 150gr bullets at rock-throwing distances.

For Self Defense, this load will work, and a load you use for "hunting" purposes is easier to defend against than something intended for "harm and death" to a human. (I was never tried in court, but had co-workers who were.)

In a criminal proceeding, the question will be "were you justified in using deadly force"....... right, or wrong....
In a "civil proceeding", the question was did you intend to cause suffering and harm, beyond that permitted by legal justification, and did you use force that was intended to be excessive or brutal resulting in grievous injury or harm.......
Co-worker was carrying "dept. issue 158gr Winchester Lead Semi-wadcutter .357mag ammo. Shot to pre-orbital arch of the forhead of a subject pointing a 12ga Rem. 1100 loaded with 3" mag buckshot, completely penetrated the cranium and exited leaving a 2" exit wound.
Co-worker was exonerated by both criminal and civil proceedings. It helped that the subject had a history of mental illness and criminal assaults.... and had threatened to "kill any game-warden" he ran across.....
Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Personally, I'd go with a 155gr "self defense" load as recoil is somewhat less than the near .41mag level of the 200gr 10mm load.
The reason is muzzle control and recovery for follow-up shots.
This is the reason for the creation of, and popularity of the .40S&W.
fwiw; When I was still working, I was issued a Glock M22. I could carry any factory loaded ammunition. I chose to carry the 155gr Winchester Silver-Tip rather than the issued Ranger SXT 180gr load. It had the highest m/v of any 155gr load available at the time (1,220fps chrono'd from my 4-5/8"bbl. M22), and penetration was adequate to completely penetrate the chest cavity of a 140lb deer with a broadside hit. Accuracy was excellent too.

Docgmt
September 17, 2011, 01:44 PM
I have never seen any law banning the use of handloads for self defense nor could I find anything on it in the books I have on hand. I do remember a column by Massad Ayoob in (guns & ammo ) ? In the article he warned about the lawyer:cuss: not on your side using the fact against you. Paraphrasing from bad memory the lawyer:cuss: will be pointing at you and saying that regular bullets were not good enough for you, you had to go and make extra special killer bullets.

I tried to find the column online but no joy, if I do find it I will post it later. Massad Ayoob's blog is at http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/

G29
September 17, 2011, 04:27 PM
Good info guys, much appreciated... regarding hand loads, are those bought from Double Tap, Buffalo Bore or Swamp Fox considered hand loads or reloads?

gofastman
September 17, 2011, 08:06 PM
Good info guys, much appreciated... regarding hand loads, are those bought from Double Tap, Buffalo Bore or Swamp Fox considered hand loads or reloads?

i wouldn't think so.
I would say ammo bought from a licenced ammo maker (all of those listed are) would qualify as "commercial ammo"

nastynatesfish
September 17, 2011, 08:55 PM
its in the book you can get for a CCW course. its not so much a law as it is a leg in the court room being that instead of using comercial self defence ammo, you use ammo "manufactured by the defendent to kill". there are 2 open cases in southern arizona by guys that used there pistols to defend agains robbery that the rounds in the magazine were reloades addmitted by the shooters and that is the like the prosecuting attorney used. im sure you can ask a CCW instructor about where to find the lititure, i dont have it. thats why you have HUNTING, PLINKING and SELF DEFENSE branded ammo. i say this just as a cover your a$$ issue if you ever need to use your weapon in defence. if your considering carrying you pistol you should go to a class regardless of if you plan on concealing it. i dont need a CCW here in Arizona anymore but i still went to the class and have been to a audit class to sit in and hear any law revisions for the sake of it

PO2Hammer
September 17, 2011, 09:31 PM
This was back in the early 90's before the 10mm was down loaded to accomodate the Glock Mod20.
That's slick, sliding that little nugget of do-do in there like that.

atblis
September 18, 2011, 07:17 AM
That's slick, sliding that little nugget of do-do in there like that.
Some truth to it actually.

jweezyadig
February 26, 2012, 10:23 AM
Well people do shoot loads over 1400 fps in there g20/29.
Though I would recommend an after market barrel.

And as far as the handload/reload in self defense goes there's
A simple solution. Grab your favorite ammo loaded with your
favorite bullet. Grab your handy bullet puller and remove the
bullet, remove the powder and replace it with the loading of
your choice. Even if it is only for your first 2/3 rounds incase they
are for some reason taken apart for forensic testing.

Also for those who do not know try to avoid chambering the same
round(s) over and over as the bullet will set back in the case over time.
I simply put the round into the chamber first and then insert
The magazine. Just some advice from a novice as many have
thrown away a lot of expensive SD ammo when they noticed
they had 20 round all set back 3-5mm. (could be horrific if it were
a 1450fps 10mm handload.

Just my 2 cents.
Thanks.

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