Out shooting with Berrys Bullets.


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armoredman
September 17, 2011, 10:46 PM
I met a shooting buddy this morning at the CG range, enjoying the cooling off as we finally start our trip out of summer, and the broiling temperatures. We set records on how many days we sweltered above 110 degrees Fahrenheit this summer, so the mercury's slide is a welcome one.

I came out to try out the Berry's 124 grain plated hollow point with some loads I had developed, as this is a bullet with a wide tall ogive, seen here with other 9mm projectiles for comparison, Berry's is the second from the right.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/reloading%20setup/Barebullets.jpg

Due to that wide and high ogive, I experimented with the primitive "drop check" test, (drop dummy round in dismounted barrel), to see if they would chamber at a usual cartridge over all length. No, they required a shorter one. How short? 1.01. Yes. Looks odd, doesn't it? That's an old, (I need to replace my factory ammo, ugh), factory Remington 115 grain JHP next to the Berry's loaded to 1.01.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/reloading%20setup/BerrysandRemington.jpg

Loaded into the Phantom's magazine, it looks short,

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/reloading%20setup/Berrysinmagazine.jpg

Now I was following the NEW Accurate Arms loading data, and we were down in cast bullet territory power factors, so the short load didn't concern me pressure wise. Also, the big CZ SP-01 Phantom is a tank, and has shrugged off much more powerful rounds with a yawn, so I knew we were gonna be OK. I set up the traditional 10 yard target stand,

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/range%20trip/tenyardstargets.jpg

And got ready to shoot. This time I wore CZ-USA's newest shirt design! Awesome design plus being light and cool.
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/range%20trip/represent.jpg
Rock on! But, I digress, back to the loads...

The funny thing is, I had data on this bullet from waaaaay back stating it would work at 1.04. Very old data, using AA#5...haven't had that flavor around for 4 or more years. Well, it must have been in a pistol I don't have anymore, because both the P-01 and the Phantom said 1.01. I did load up some testers at 1.04 and 1.03, just in case. Remember that old saying, "You just never listen!" Yep, that's me.

The 1.04 COAL jammed repeatedly trying to load, getting the bullet stuck in the lands. Several times I had to push, not tap the slide forward. The 1.03 wasn't as bad, but still had several failures to go into battery. When they did go into battery, good results.

So, now realizing that it IS smarter to listen to what your pistol is trying to tell you, I worked with the 1.01 loads, and got some good results!

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/Phantom%20targets/Berrystarget2.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/Phantom%20targets/Berrystarget3.jpg

I think the 6.2 grain load, (oddly enough, the exact same as my new favorite cast bullet load!), is the one I am going to experiment with further. There was not one failure to feed, fire or eject with any these 1.01 COAL loads, and no signs of any kinds of pressure issues, of course. Only thing the Phantom said was "burp", and asked for more. I also intend to see what kinda trouble I can get into using Accurate Arms #2 powder, as well. ;D
The P-01 was on it's day off at home, so was unavailable for comment. :-\

When it was all said and done, I like these bullets and they show a lot of potential.
Speaking of that, BTW, my shooting buddy Larry was shooting a modified Mosin, with a home made AK style stock,

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/range%20trip/mosinAKstock.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/range%20trip/standingmosin.jpg

Funny thing, his load was also using a Berry's bullet, the new Berrys 125 grain .311 bullet for 7.62x39mm, and doing extremely well with it in 7.62x54R. I was able to scare the bezeezus out of a bucket at 300 yards with them in that old rifle. :) I had to give him a baggie of these Berry's 9mm PHPs, and we'll see what he does with them, too.

Well, the tumbler is running away behind me, fresh hot tea beside me, and a lot of new loads to make for my firearms from just emptied brass, sounds like a good day, what do you say, Laughing CZ Skull?

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/range%20trip/laughingskull.jpg

Looks like he had a good time too. ;)

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dickttx
September 18, 2011, 02:26 PM
It is pretty obvious that the OAL is not what matters, so long as the cartridge will feed.
What is important is the "case capacity" once the bullet is seated.
I have never seen anything that measured that. I see this often and the OAL with one bullet is completely different than another of the same weight. Depending on the seating stem shape, even bullets the same weight and length will often have a completely different ogivy?, thus a different seating depth.
To me it is very important when using lead loads for plated bullets, or trying to determine lead loads based on jacketed bullet data.

I wish someone with more knowledge than I would address this.

bds
September 18, 2011, 03:05 PM
To me it is very important when using lead loads for plated bullets ... I wish someone with more knowledge than I would address this.
Your wish will be granted very soon! According to Jay from Berry's MFG, Hodgdon and Alliant will be publishing load data for Berry's plated bullets - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7225968#post7225968
I will say that both Hodgdon and Alliant are working [on] load data as we speak. My number one goal is to have data in hand to answer the most asked questions we get.

In the meantime, I will continue using lead load data or start-to-mid range jacketed load data for Berry's plated bullets as they suggest on their website.

heydawg
September 18, 2011, 06:48 PM
Regarding the 7.62x54 load -- does the 1200 fps rule apply?

I had some issues loading the 100 grain Berry plated rounds early, but fiddled with the load and powder to the point where I was very happy with them. I compared them to a cast bullet and found them to be vastly and I mean magnitudes, better than cast. Cleaner, more accurate and most importantly, vastly easier for me to seat and load.

They were cheapest online from Powder Valley, Inc. even factoring shipping in.

armoredman
September 18, 2011, 08:02 PM
heydawg, I don't know what the 7.62x54R load was pushing, and with that new stock I couldn't compare/contrast to my own experiences, as that stock's recoil reduction is killer. It felt like a light load, possibly due to that, but maybe not. The same gent was also using the same .311 125 grain bullet in an SKS to good effect. Try that bullet soon, I think you will be VERY pleasantly surprised. I have used it in my CZ 527M to great effect at jacketed load levels.
Dickttx, I have heard this addressed before by Wobbly, a GREAT reloading guru, and no, I have not measured the capacity decrease by seating the bullet to that depth. I was very careful to watch for any signs of high pressure, and there was absolutely none whatsoever. Heading back out this "weekend" with same bullet loaded over Accurate Arms 32, the only other handgun powder I have.
Is a good bullet. :D

Rule3
September 18, 2011, 08:10 PM
CZ's just have that short leade and if the bullet does not come to a distinct point, the OAL needs to be shorter than for most any other handgun, except the BHP, which has a similar barrel.

armoredman
September 18, 2011, 09:32 PM
Yes, and I normally have most loads shorter than "normal", 1.095 is a common COAL marking in my loading records. My Lee 124 grain cast single lube groove boolit goes to 1.080 for good functioning.

Nick93
September 19, 2011, 07:17 PM
Armoredman... can i ask you an offtopic question ? what dies you were using ?

armoredman
September 19, 2011, 09:08 PM
Lee 4 die set with the FCD, that one used lightly. :)

PO2Hammer
September 20, 2011, 10:26 AM
I've read of the same trouble with CZs with any truncated cone bullet like XTP. It's one of the factors that keeps me from buying a CZ 75, even though I really want one. I have a lot of XTPs and HAPs on hand. Might buy one anyway, with the Kadet .22 conversion of course.

armoredman
September 20, 2011, 10:39 AM
I've loaded quite a few XTPs, both 115 and 124 grain, with no issues; my data shows they worked well in the old PCR and my P-01 between 1.050 and 1.1 COAL.

Rule3
September 20, 2011, 11:14 AM
I've read of the same trouble with CZs with any truncated cone bullet like XTP. It's one of the factors that keeps me from buying a CZ 75, even though I really want one. I have a lot of XTPs and HAPs on hand. Might buy one anyway, with the Kadet .22 conversion of course.
XTP's work fine in the CZ's. Don't let that stop you from buying one. They are one of the best , accurate handguns around. The XTP bullet come to a rather sharp point, and chambers fine.

The bullets I have had to shorten the OAL are mostly lead RN. Pretty much any FMJ 9mm bullet feeds perfectly.

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