what do you think of this bullet (boolet?)


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gofastman
September 18, 2011, 03:48 PM
http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=70&products_id=214&zenid=e76a1joc0kp0glb8prrtbh1ih5


I need something versatile, something i can run at 800fps in 44spl for plinking,
and then can run at 1500fps in 44 mag for...loud plinking :evil:.
It needs to punch clean holes in paper, maybe some varmint hunting too.

Is that a reasonable price? how is the service?

any alternatives?

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rcmodel
September 18, 2011, 03:59 PM
The Lyman #429215 Ray Thompson GC design is older then I am, and it has survived that long for good reason.

But you certainly don't need a gas-check bullet for .44 Spl loads.

And if the bullets are hard enough alloy for 1,500 FPS loads, they are going to be too hard for 800 FPS loads, and you will likely get some leading.

I'd try those for the barn burners, or try Missouri Bullet Brinell 18 hardness Keith's.
http://www.missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=103&category=5&secondary=12&keywords=

And try Missouri Bullet Brinell 12 harness for some simple plain lead .44 Spl bullets.
http://www.missouribullet.com/results.php?pageNum_rsCWResults=0&category=5&secondary=12

$46 per 500 is way better then $76 per 500!

rc

gofastman
September 18, 2011, 04:07 PM
is there any reason not to use a gas check?

Walkalong
September 18, 2011, 04:28 PM
Money down the drain. Seriously, those buggers are almost as much as jacketed bullets these days.

Galil5.56
September 18, 2011, 05:13 PM
is there any reason not to use a gas check?

Cost is a big reason, especially in the last few years as brand name gas check prices have gone completely insane. I cast 240 grain LSWC, .430" diameter bullets, and only use gas checks when I am driving them at top .44 mag velocities... Even then if sized right, all but the very softest alloy will work OK if the lube is up to the job. Another minus to using gas checks is that they can and do fly off after they leave the barrel, and can destroy a chronograph... I found out firsthand that they have plenty enough zip to do this.

Lastly, that does seem like a nice bullet you show, and if you might want an alternate non gas check type at 240 grains, take a look at http://www.mastercastbullets.com/home.html

Mike will ship you 500 if that is all you might need, for the USPS small box flat rate cost, saving you about $8 over a lot of the competition, and nobody I have seen beats his satisfaction warranty.

bds
September 18, 2011, 05:15 PM
A new book (free pdf) by Glen Fryxell has some excellent chapters that cover gas-checked vs plain based lead bullet (chapter 10), leading (chapter 7) and the Keith SWC bullets (chapter 12) - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=615067

is there any reason not to use a gas check?
Here are some excerpts from the book as to why gas check may not be necessary for .357/.44 Magnum up to 1500 fps:

A GC allows one to shoot a somewhat softer bullet without leading, and this can be useful for getting cast bullets to expand at revolver velocities

... if you are using an alloy with a hardness of at least 11 BHN, any leading you observe is not caused by the alloy being too soft. Remember, Elmer Keith used the Lyman 429421 cast of 16-1 with a BHN of about 11 for the .44 Magnum.

Sharpe and Keith cast their .357 bullets with a BHN of 10-12, used quality bullet lubes, and had no problems with leading. The same is true today. But, the seeds of suspicion had been planted...

A common mis-conception is that if you drive a PB [lead] cast bullet faster than about 1000 fps, horrendous leading will result, and the sixgunner won't be able to hit a barn from the inside. This just flat ain't true, folks! This "old-wives tale" is simply a hold-over from the reputation that the original .357 Magnum factory ammo had for leading (and remember, that was due to extremely soft bullets and poor lube quality). PB [lead] bullets can be driven considerably faster than 1000 fps with no leading whatsoever, all day long.

But, in a nutshell, the primary variables involved in leading and its prevention are alloy hardness and obturation, matching bullet diameter to throat/groove diameter, lubricant quality and quantity, powder selection and bore condition. Note the distinct lack of any mention of the presence or absence of that cute little copper diaper that we call a GC [gas check]. For routine revolver shooting up to about 1500 fps, PB [lead] bullets can shoot just as cleanly and accurately as a GC bullet.

Hondo 60
September 19, 2011, 12:59 AM
That seems awful expensive.

I'm with rcmodel...

The 12 BHN from MBC for 44spl
& the 18 BHN for 44 Magnum.

Like he said "$46 per 500 is way better then $76 per 500!"

35 Whelen
September 19, 2011, 02:01 AM
I cast and shoot the .358" version of that bullet. I mostly use it in my full house .357 loads, but it'll certainly work in my .38. I also cast a 150 gr HP with gas check that I use exclusively in my .38. If you're looking for versatility, I think that bullet would be the ticket.

$76 per 500 might seem expensive, but it's still cheaper than buying and keeping two different bullets.

You must be a reloader, have you given any thought to taking up bullet casting? Once your equipment is paid for, and if you can scrounge your own lead as I do, your bullets are pretty much free. I've even made a die (or you can buy them)from which I make my own gas checks out of those aluminum "No Trespassing" signs. .30 caliber checks cost me about .2, that two-tenths of one cent, apiece. I don't make my own .35 caliber checks yet as I have a couple thousand.
I shoot cast in everything FOR everything except deer hunting where shots will likely be over 100 yds., elk hunting and rifles like my Mini and SKS's.

35W

gofastman
September 19, 2011, 08:43 PM
You must be a reloader, have you given any thought to taking up bullet casting? Once your equipment is paid for, and if you can scrounge your own lead as I do, your bullets are pretty much free. I've even made a die (or you can buy them)from which I make my own gas checks out of those aluminum "No Trespassing" signs. .30 caliber checks cost me about .2, that two-tenths of one cent, apiece. I don't make my own .35 caliber checks yet as I have a couple thousand.
I shoot cast in everything FOR everything except deer hunting where shots will likely be over 100 yds., elk hunting and rifles like my Mini and SKS's.

I think I may be heading that way! Its just sooo cheap, after you get the equipment.
I work for VW, so wheel weights are more or less unlimited, for now.
slight thread drift:
a lot of shops, at least the "green" ones, are moving to lead free (clay based, I think) stick on weights, they work very well, but they're not lead.
there are still literally millions of pounds of lead weights out there, so we should be fine for a decade or two ;)

35 Whelen
September 19, 2011, 08:55 PM
I think I may be heading that way! Its just sooo cheap, after you get the equipment.


Very cheap. I can load a box of 50 ea. 38 Special plinking/target loads for about $2 - $3 per box. In addition to making my own gas checks, I also make my own bulet lube. Incidently, both the homemade checks and lube make for some incredibly accurate bullets (all 100 yd. targets with open sights):
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Targets/53K31NOE.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Targets/DSC_0005.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Targets/June09match1.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Target%201903A3/03A3afterbedding-1.jpg

35W

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