Damaged Ballistic Tips


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BigN
September 18, 2011, 08:55 PM
I was loading some 140 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips and some of the plastic tips were bent, flat, or broken. Seems like it really threw the shot off course. Other than keeping them separate, is there any way to take care of this problem?

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rcmodel
September 18, 2011, 08:59 PM
Break them clear off and make hollow-points out of them?

Seriously, the tip of the bullet has little to no effect on accuracy.

It's a perfectly flat base & perfect rotational balance that makes them accurate.

rc

T Bran
September 18, 2011, 09:01 PM
Ive messed up a few in my life just reshape them with your pocket knife and use them for fouling or plinking ammo. I dont crimp in the seating die and misadjusted it once leaving a gap between the die body and the seating stem. If one tipps off the case it leans over and gets wedged in the gap bad juju for plastic.
T

amlevin
September 20, 2011, 11:24 AM
Seriously, the tip of the bullet has little to no effect on accuracy.

If this is true then why do many of those who have trophy's for long range accurate shooting use John Whidden's pointing die to form a uniform tip on their competition bullets?

Your may be right if all you care about is getting the bullet into a 4" circle at 200 yards. That point does affect the flight of the bullet as it travels farther.

Look at this picture of a bullet in supersonic flight and you can see that the point pays a large role in the bullet's flight.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm14/amlevin/762BulletShockwaves.jpg

Yes rotational stability is important but don't dismiss the role of the bullet nose/point.

Walkalong
September 20, 2011, 11:37 AM
Seriously, the tip of the bullet has little to no effect on accuracy.

It's a perfectly flat base & perfect rotational balance that makes them accurate.Agreed. The tip makes very little difference compared to other factors. You can shoot some great groups with bullets with damaged tips. No theory, just fact.

USSR
September 20, 2011, 12:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcmodel
Seriously, the tip of the bullet has little to no effect on accuracy.

If this is true then why do many of those who have trophy's for long range accurate shooting use John Whidden's pointing die to form a uniform tip on their competition bullets?

The LR shooters use the pointing die to get a slightly higher, but more importantly, a more uniform BC number for their bullets. This results in less verticle stringing at 1k due to varying BC numbers.

Don

animator
September 20, 2011, 12:41 PM
Considering the grooves your barrel's rifling puts on a bullet when fired, I doubt a smashed tip is going to do much to affect it. Unless the damage was enough to throw off the balance of the bullet...

popper
September 20, 2011, 03:19 PM
walkalong and ussr are correct. That pic is at ~ mach 2.3 The wave front moves depending on ogive and speed, but the important part is balance. Secondary is how fast it slows down (SD and BC).

rcmodel
September 20, 2011, 03:33 PM
And the photo of the bullet shock wave is stationary.

In actual flight the bullet is spinning about 216,000 RPM.

If the bullet tip is going to throw it off one way or another, it would have to do it really really fast!

rc

popper
September 20, 2011, 04:58 PM
rcmodel yes as the shock wave is created at the muzzle, a tip distortion effect would be immediate. Brings up an interesting question of shooting supersonic with a can or even a flash suppressor, accuracy wise. Talked with a fellow shooting subsonic 22s out of an older 22 rifle. Keyholed every shot, as twist was too slow. That thing looks like a 22 short case with 100gr. of lead on top. Very expensive experiment. Sorry, got sidetracked.

rcmodel
September 20, 2011, 05:03 PM
but the important part is balance.Perhaps more important is a perfectly square base so the bullet doesn't start off with a wobble as it exits the muzzle crown.

I would rate a perfect square base #1.
Balance #2.
And a deformed tip? Probably about #5.

rc

Walkalong
September 20, 2011, 07:50 PM
rcmodel yes as the shock wave is created at the muzzle, a tip distortion effect would be immediate.I can take damaged tipped benchrest bullets and shoot them into one hole at 100 & 2000 yards. (Assuming I don't screw up).

The base is what gets it started. The consistency of the jacket walls keeps it stable.

The tip has very little to do with accuracy at 300 yards and in. Maybe more, but I can prove 300 and in at the range.

The tip is close to the center while the jacket walls are at the outside. Uneven weight (lead) at the outside of a spinning object makes a great deal more difference than a tip almost at the center of the spinning object.

A great deal more.

As USSR posted, the tip will make more of a difference as far as aerodynamics go at long range, which affects BC and vertical string. He speaks from experience as well.

Stick a lead weight near the center of the front wheel on your car and run 100 on the highway. Now put that weight near the outside and run 100 on the highway.

There are two basic reasons benchrest bullets are the most accurate. They use the best jackets (most concentric walls) and they are all made in the same die.

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