Buying a judge...


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TheBurns
September 19, 2011, 08:56 PM
Ok... My favorite gathering of the year is coming up in my area. This means I can hopefully find a few items I am interested in, one of which includes a taurus judge with a two inch barrel. I am not so dilusional that I think I'll be able to find a raging Judge at a decent price, but I would like one with a two inch barrel and I will accept the shorter cylinder as long as its stainless. My questions are about accuracy. I have read a lot of conflicting reports. Is is accurate with 45LC out to 50 or 75 yards? When using shot shells, what's the most accurate lethal or brutal length I could reach? what's an acceptable price for this toy now that the governor has been released?

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Jim K
September 19, 2011, 09:16 PM
Oh, the TAURUS Judge revolver! That is not what I thought you meant.

Jim

gbran
September 19, 2011, 09:25 PM
I think the Judge is far better than pepper spray, as a matter of fact, I'd say it would be downright painful to be shot with it. I couldn't imagine anything but the most determined zombie continuing to advance toward round after round of shot from that thing.

I also view it as for very short work, maybe last resort in terms of defense.
#4 shot out of dad's look pretty serious at short distance. At 20 feet, it looks prety marginal.

TheBurns
September 19, 2011, 09:29 PM
what about 000 buck at 15 paces?

gbran
September 19, 2011, 10:05 PM
what about 000 buck at 15 paces?


15 paces, even at 2'/pace is about 30'. We found 000 buck to give about a
6" spread at 12-15'. Didn't see anything devestating past about 12'. The 45lc has fair acuracy out of a 3" Judge. 3-4 inches at 25yds from rest. Plenty good for SD.

BTW, I've had a few guides in AK who used pump shotties loaded with buckshot then followed with slugs. Dad loads 2 # 4 shot and the rest with
45lc's.

There is also new SD ammo being loaded specifically for the 410 handguns. It's a mixture of buck and smaller shot. Best of both worlds. Dad now uses this ammo, but I don't have a report on it. I understand it's a game chnger.

skidder
September 19, 2011, 10:43 PM
The "Governor" will grant you a full pardon, unlike the "Judge".

I would go with Smith before Taurus, and I don't think the Judge fires 45 ACP

Here is a video on the Governor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNsnqZw1dkk

TheBurns
September 19, 2011, 10:45 PM
price comparison? also, with moon clips, a judge will fire 45 acp.

skidder
September 19, 2011, 10:57 PM
OK... I wasn't sure, but I do know you get 6 shots and better quality.

I'm not going to beat a dead horse, but I have already went on a date with their CS department, and I didn't get lucky (no pun intended :D).

My last experience with them was not very good, but you might get lucky?

TheBurns
September 19, 2011, 11:10 PM
I have no issues with Taurus.

MarshallDodge
September 19, 2011, 11:23 PM
I am not going to try and talk you out of your purchase but will add a couple items that I think are important when looking at a 410 pistol-

These pistols are larger in size and weight when compared to a six shot 357 magnum that could easily perform the same task. This can be a factor if you decide to carry.

Why shotshells? Is there a snake or varmint issue because on two legged creatures I would rather have six solid projectiles rather than a bunch of little ones that won't penetrate to the vitals where the need to be.

Cost of ammo. The ammunition to feed these are expensive, either shotshells or 45 Colt. Unless you reload or money is not an issue then this is a mute point.

VP
September 19, 2011, 11:32 PM
I shot the judge for the first time a few weeks ago at a friends house. I liked it a lot. I shot 45 long and 410 out of it. Great little revolver, very fun, very accurate. I'd consider the Governor by Smith because of the 45ACP capability as well.

pikid89
September 19, 2011, 11:32 PM
There is also new SD ammo being loaded specifically for the 410 handguns. It's a mixture of buck and smaller shot. Best of both worlds. Dad now uses this ammo, but I don't have a report on it. I understand it's a game chnger.

I wold say not so much...those winchester PDX1 loads for the handgun is a load of basically useless pellets, relative to your other options

the PDX1 is 3 flat discs followed by a handful of BB shot...the flat discs have terrible terrible sectional density, akin to throwing a Frisbee flat surface forward, followed by a marginal amount (11) of BB shot (that in a 12 gauge throwing 1 3/8 oz or close to 100 pellets of it is acceptable for ducks, not humans)

you would be far better served by the judge shooting regular 000 buck, which it does only marginally well

you would be even better served again by using a regular handgun or a regular shotgun, rather than something that fails to be either well

wrs840
September 19, 2011, 11:53 PM
I used to own two Judges, now only one, in Ultralite. It's only use for me is to loan-out to friends who think they want a Judge. Most bring it back to me saying "thanks, that was fun, but I don't think I want one now". The pattern is useless with shotloads at more than eight feet, and the accuracy with 45 Colt is poor. It's a decent snake-gun. ...but so is a .38 revolver with a Speer shot-load though, and a S&W cop-trade S&W M64 .38spl is cheaper and a better revolver overall, against most any threat, IMO.

Apple a Day
September 20, 2011, 06:01 AM
Do yourself a favor and read the thread I started the other day.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=615359
Two days ago I went to the range with a buddy and tested a Judge. Penetration was meager. I wouldn't carry one for self defense against anything bigger than a squirrel.

Stainz
September 20, 2011, 08:33 AM
I don't recall the Judge being dished out on the cylinder to accept moonclips - or anyone making the larger 5-slot moonclips. Even their long discontinued 5-shot Tracker in .45 ACP's so called 'Stellar clips' were hard to find when it was in production.

About buying a governor... Don Siegelman, the last Democratic Governor in Alabama ('99-'03), proved that is possible in Alabama - and spent time in Federal prison, a repository for too many of our local & state elected jerks, to prove it. A S&W Governor is a lot more useful... and cheaper!

Stainz

Guillermo
September 20, 2011, 08:50 AM
the judge is a horrible shotgun and a poor 45.

it is a toy

understand that and you will enjoy it

serious defensive weapon...no

jdub4
September 20, 2011, 09:01 AM
I had a Bond Arms in a .410/.45LC/.45ACP. It was a waste of money. Heavy inaccurate and poor penetration w/ the .410 buck. Pointless, maybe good for snakes. Or a paper weight.

MyGreenGuns
September 23, 2011, 05:41 AM
The Judge is fun (I have one, 3" blued). Lots of people dont like it, but there are critics for all guns. Its not the "best" gun for anything (IMO). I wouldnt recommend it for your 1st gun. I do get a big kick out of going shooting with people that notice my tiny shotgun shells and ask, "Whats that for?" and I pull out a pistol.
I disagree with it "not penetrating" enough to kill varmint, you should see what it does to jello! I get pretty decent accuracy with the .45lc (will increase with practice) and find it kicks softer than a .22 because of the weight. I like it because it lets smaller people shoot a "big gun" with ease.
I wouldnt buy a Judge unless I already had the following:
A good shotgun
A good carry pistol
A good rifle

Skribs
September 23, 2011, 02:58 PM
I think it was the boxotruth that tested and saw the only decent load was 000 buck. In those, you get enough penetration for the FBI tests, and the holes you create would be about on par with 3 (2.5" shell) or 5 (3" shell) 9mm FMJ rounds. I'd personally rather have a semi-auto, but a Judge/Governor is on my wish list for down-the-road.

Nushif
September 23, 2011, 03:20 PM
I do not own one because I do not have the disposable income for toys right now, but I have shot quite a few. You would be hard pressed to find a more fun plinking revolver that is not a .22 in my opinion.

Will it kill a squirrel or a snake at a couple of paces? I like to think any handgun can. will a .45 Colt to the chest from any handgun distance ruin someone's day? I like to think so, too.

skidder
September 23, 2011, 07:11 PM
the judge is a horrible shotgun and a poor 45.

it is a toy

understand that and you will enjoy it

serious defensive weapon...no

This is true, and their "lifetime warranty" is a marketing scam.

daorhgih
September 23, 2011, 08:20 PM
For a good price, prowl around on Gun Broker. I snagged a 3"x3" judge for $350, NIB, with a Blackhawk SERPA holster. The bad news: the locking tab for the Judge is for a 2", not my 3-inch. Just for funzies I tried the bird-shot at news-paper sheets, about 20-25 ft. 16 pellets showing, out of the single round. A toy. Totally UN-remarkable; I gave the rest of the box away. My set-up was a single sheet of newspaper near the muzzle to print a pattern, then a grocery sack filled with really wet newspapers on down-range to about 30-ft. .45C was next, holding 12" circle all day long into wetted newspaper stacks, penetration was only 3-3". Judge is really easy to aim well, and the heft helps with the recoil, which is negligible once you're used to it. HUGE fire-ball at night! Kept 25 .45C rounds into 12"-14" circle @ 20-ft. Would not want to face any home-owner armed with a Judge. Next ran one box of 2", ⅕oz. rifled slugs, expecting the bore rifling to synergize w/ the slug rifling, but noticed no evidence of that. 20-ft. patterns were 8-9-inches. Penetration in wet-pack nearly 6". Pretty convincing wound-simulation from these snappy little 2" rounds. Tried 2 boxes of PDX1 next. Both 3", one having 4/16=discs to BBs @ stated 750fps, and the other with 3/12=discs/BBs ratio, 850fps. Speeds are probably full-length shotgun barrel figures. Both types of D/BB rounds tore a 5-6" hole in newspaper @ 10-ft., and damaged the wet newsprint enough that if it were an intruder, he would be made bloody, but not convinced to stop intruding, IMHO. But there IS a good deal of flash from the muzzle. Next came some 3-in., #6 shot, speed of 1325fps. These made tight holes in the newspaper, and reached on out to totally tear up the wet-pack. These would be my favorite, along w/ a 3-in. rifled slug ("Magnum"). I would not depend on any shot-shell configuration except for rabid squirrels or snakes. I like my Judge, and will use it mostly HD and fun plinking.

mgkdrgn
September 23, 2011, 09:53 PM
Ok... My favorite gathering of the year is coming up in my area. This means I can hopefully find a few items I am interested in, one of which includes a taurus judge with a two inch barrel. I am not so dilusional that I think I'll be able to find a raging Judge at a decent price, but I would like one with a two inch barrel and I will accept the shorter cylinder as long as its stainless. My questions are about accuracy. I have read a lot of conflicting reports. Is is accurate with 45LC out to 50 or 75 yards? When using shot shells, what's the most accurate lethal or brutal length I could reach? what's an acceptable price for this toy now that the governor has been released?

The Judge is a "point defense" weapon. 50 - 75 yards is 40 - 65 yards BEYOND point defense range. Same will be true firing buckshot.

If you want 45 Colt accuracy at that range, buy something that was built to deliver that ... something like a Ruger Blackhawk. (of course, that doesn't mean that YOU can be accurate at that range) Don't buy a Prius and expect it to be competitive at the Indy 500.

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