hi, Im from the uk, Im 14, and I can fire an SA80 varient legaly


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mr_uk
January 26, 2004, 03:50 PM
I, like several thousand other teenagers in the uk are trained to fire several kinds of rifle.

1st the air rifle, then .22, the L98 (a special semi auto varient of the sa80) which fires 5.56 rounds and the L91 which fires 7.62 rounds. I am also supplied information on battle field tactics. and all I had to do was pick up a leaflet, go to an area surrounded by barbed wire (where I am actualy a security hazard as there is a radar dome on site with several klicks of underground bunker) with about 30 other kids, and sign a piece of paper.. then go there twice a week till Im 18 or 21 depending on how important I become. there is one other youth organisation which lets its members use even more powerful weapons.

anyway, I was just wondering if other countries are this crazzy and are we all planning on attacking each other in the near future?

If you enjoyed reading about "hi, Im from the uk, Im 14, and I can fire an SA80 varient legaly" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Min
January 26, 2004, 03:52 PM
Yes, train, and train hard. The US will be attacking the UK.

mr_uk
January 26, 2004, 03:57 PM
then your gonna be killing us with your m16s wile we try and fix the jams in our sa80s... unless we all go out and buy AK47s for £60 each

Skunkabilly
January 26, 2004, 03:59 PM
Your lousy tea tax has nothing on the Patriot Act! :barf:

Min
January 26, 2004, 03:59 PM
It will not matter if you have AK's.

Have you seen what the US did to Iraq? Wars these days will not be fought with small arms. It will be firepower from the air.

cameroneod
January 26, 2004, 04:00 PM
then your gonna be killing us with your m16s wile we try and fix the jams in our sa80s


Youve obviously never fired an M16. :D :D :D

Mr. Bombastic
January 26, 2004, 04:03 PM
Is this a serious post? :confused:

mr_uk
January 26, 2004, 04:03 PM
we suck, I know! at least we're not surrender monkeys like the french..

UK army soldier was shot three times in the head as his sa80 would not fire, he was saved only by the plastic beneath his kevlar helmet

mr_uk
January 26, 2004, 04:05 PM
yes, its all true.. did I mention we are able to fire live ammo but not blanks?

Thumper
January 26, 2004, 04:05 PM
U.S. planning on attacking the U.K.?

Nah...as you know, the U.S. maintains a contingency attack plan for pretty much every country on earth, but I believe the invasion plan for Britain was scaled back to using only the local Boy Scouts of America troop in the greater Luchenbach, Texas area (but that might have been axed due to overkill...I can't remember).

:neener:

Welcome to THR. ;)

Min
January 26, 2004, 04:06 PM
So, did you enjoy shooting the guns, mr uk?

mr_uk
January 26, 2004, 04:07 PM
why worry about carpet bombings anyway? the F15: flys with only one wing. I say: ha!

the F16: mig killer: I say: double ha!

the eurofighter typhoon: superior to any other current jetfighter anywhere. I say: no comment.. *cough*

mr_uk
January 26, 2004, 04:09 PM
yes, however I believe I may have been holding the rifle wrong as I got one hell of a bruse

Min
January 26, 2004, 04:11 PM
No offense mr uk, but why do I keep seeing Harry Potter in my mind? Do you look like him?

mr_uk
January 26, 2004, 04:13 PM
uuuh....... no. I look like chade from the farseer trilogy, only shorter, less pale and not old

Balog
January 26, 2004, 04:20 PM
So what organization is this? The Irish Republican Army? :uhoh:
;) :p :p

mr_uk
January 26, 2004, 04:22 PM
air training core, its part of the RAF so we get to learn to fly gliders and tutor plains aswell..

mr_uk
January 26, 2004, 04:24 PM
[comment deleted by moderator]

Thumper
January 26, 2004, 04:24 PM
Your comments are interesting, mr. uk, in that you seem to find the idea of a young man's learning to shoot shocking. Here, at least where I'm from, it's considered an integral part of a well rounded education. We learned to shoot, and to do a lot of it, at a very early age.

For example, here's my nephew with his first doe, taken at age 9, this past November:

Balog
January 26, 2004, 04:25 PM
Huh, they must have a lower minimum age requirement than the US armed forces training programs. Unless they let you shoot in JROTC?

mr_uk
January 26, 2004, 04:26 PM
we learn to shoot in the next town.. its not safe to fire weapons near the radar dome

Thumper
January 26, 2004, 04:26 PM
Guess I should include the pic.http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=754139

If .223 is bruising your shoulder, you need to get in the gym.

mr_uk
January 26, 2004, 04:28 PM
nice shot, how far away was it? and shouldent that rifle be facing the ground?

Thumper
January 26, 2004, 04:30 PM
160 yards...they teach you to plant your muzzles in the ground? No wonder we keep hearing horror stories about the SA80. Good way to generate unwanted fireworks.

Mal H
January 26, 2004, 04:34 PM
Welcome to The High Road mr_uk.

I will ask that you watch your language. We don't call this place the high road for nothing. Your comment above has been deleted.

mr_uk
January 26, 2004, 04:34 PM
better a hole in the foot than a discharge into the sky, (or your head) you can be put in prison for that in iraq..... well... you could have been a while back anyway. and yes I do need some exersize..

mr_uk
January 26, 2004, 04:39 PM
ooh! piece of advice, never use hollow tipped ammo and clean your gun while its loaded.

Thumper
January 26, 2004, 04:41 PM
Kid, you need to have a long talk with your trainer. When resting a rifle on the ground, it had better be butt down. Muzzle down is a big time no no, unless you happen to be in a chopper. Even a small amount of foreign matter in a barrel equals a big kaboom.

Thumper
January 26, 2004, 04:43 PM
ooh! piece of advice, never use hollow tipped ammo and clean your gun while its loaded.

Um...you've never really even touched a gun, have you?

mr_uk
January 26, 2004, 04:44 PM
I spose your right, but the L98 isent realy long anough to touch the ground unless you lean it against your leg

mr_uk
January 26, 2004, 04:46 PM
sure I have, I've field stripped an ww1 enfield rifle and fired an air rifle, I havent done dry training with any other rifles yet because I havent taken the tests I need to get 1st class... I'm still 2nd

Thumper
January 26, 2004, 04:49 PM
It's resting on the ground. How can it not be long enough? Are the laws of physics somehow different in the UK?

Don't clean your gun while it's loaded? Are you kidding? You're comment is akin to "advising" an Olympic class swimmer to remember not to breathe underwater. Of course you don't clean a loaded gun. You also don't work a hammer with your feet. :rolleyes:

mr_uk
January 26, 2004, 04:55 PM
[another comment deleted by moderator]

mr_uk
January 26, 2004, 04:59 PM
oh.. I never said it had to touch the ground, just face it. I'm asuming that you assumed I ment hammer it in a few inches

Thumper
January 26, 2004, 05:03 PM
Merely pointing out that you probably don't need to "advise" life long shooters with the bit about "don't clean a loaded gun." It falls under the Super Obvious category.

Also, what is your aversion to hollow point ammo? It's obviously the most humane way to harvest game. Allows the animal to be taken quickly and with little suffering.

In a self defense scenario, hollow points are much more effective than ball ammunition, and also much more likely to expend their energy in their target. This has the added benefit of not overpenetrating and injuring or killing innocents that happen to be behind your adversary. Why do you think every police department anywhere utilizes hollow points?

sure I have, I've field stripped an ww1 enfield

Wow, you succesfully pulled a bolt and dropped a magazine all by yourself? Do Brits get some kind of medal for that?

Mal H
January 26, 2004, 05:07 PM
Thumper - cool it for a while. Criticisms like that are uncalled for.

Same for you mr_uk. Yet another comment needs to be deleted. We won't do that very much longer.

Oleg Volk
January 26, 2004, 05:14 PM
Hey, Thumper -- how about a little warmer welcome. The guy had to trek over the Atlantic to get here, the least we can do is be nice.

Thumper
January 26, 2004, 05:17 PM
Sorry, Mal...

mr. uk...back to your original post...

In an uncertain era, (like the rest of recorded history) filled with strife, why wouldn't you consider it prudent to teach your people skill at arms?

You do realize that, as recently as my Grandfather's prime, Britain found itself sadly incapable of dealing with a threatened Nazi invasion? You've heard the stories, I'm sure, of farmers arming themselves with pitchforks? That Enfield you took apart (kinda)...was it part of Lend-Lease?

Somehow, your society has convinced itself that it is immune from history. That you will never yourself be called upon to defend your motherland from a sudden threat.

Britain has effectively disarmed herself, to the delight of armed criminals. Have you looked at your rising crime rates recently? Guess what happens when only the criminals have guns?

Oh...and sorry for the excessive sarcasm. Welcome, really.

Balog
January 26, 2004, 05:28 PM
Thumper wrote:Also, what is your aversion to hollow point ammo? It's obviously the most humane way to harvest game. Allows the animal to be taken quickly and with little suffering.

Say what? That statement isn't true unless you're referring to small game. And even then HP's aren't always the besy way to go. Most large game requires a good soft point to harvest humanely. Hollowpoints are generally thought to no offer sufficient penetration to reliably reach vital organs. Or is that just my misperception from reading Peter Hathaway Capstick?

Greg L
January 26, 2004, 05:34 PM
sure I have, I've field stripped an ww1 enfield rifle and fired an air rifle, I havent done dry training with any other rifles yet because I havent taken the tests I need to get 1st class... I'm still 2nd

Are you in Scouts? I know around here the Cub Scouts are limited to air guns while the Boy Scouts can shoot .22s. Never heard of it being rank related though.

Welcome BTW.

Greg

Thumper
January 26, 2004, 05:50 PM
Say what? That statement isn't true unless you're referring to small game.

Up to deer sized game, I prefer the Barnes X bullet in my reloads. BTW, the vast majority of game animals taken in the U.S. are deer sized and under. I use solids for hogs only, unless I ever get to hunt bear again. Never had the chance to hunt moose.

Popular hunting hollow points include the Barnes X mentioned, Federal's Ballistic Tip and Ballistic Silvertip (it's a plastic insert), and Winchester's Super X.

I agree that for large dangerous game, you use solids, but elephants, water buffalo, and lions are scarce in my neck of the woods.

Balog
January 26, 2004, 05:55 PM
Thumper: I never mentioned solids. I said "softpoints." There is a difference.
I'm pretty out of the loop in regards to hunting technology, and I was unaware of serious hunting bullets in a HP configuration.

Thumper
January 26, 2004, 06:02 PM
I'm pretty out of the loop in regards to hunting technology

That's ok. A little Capstick can make anyone an expert.

mr_uk
January 26, 2004, 06:09 PM
when I made the comment I made about cleaning a rifle loaded with hollow point ammo, I wasent telling you not to clean a loaded rifle, of course you know that! its just that I heard that some idiot cleaned an SKS loaded with hollow points and he shot himself, the round went through two houses.


also. the criminals here used to be mildly honorable, they wouldent use pistols or rifles against the police because they dident use them. and then the foriegners came over and spoiled it all. did I mention that an ak costs £60? i think thats around 120 dollars.

and Im in the air training core or "air cadets" not the scouts

Balog
January 26, 2004, 06:09 PM
Thumper wrote:That's ok. A little Capstick can make anyone an expert.

Uhhh, ok. I never said I was an expert. I simply said I was unaware of serious hunting bullets made in a HP configuration. I hardly think that counts as arrogance or a false claim to being an "expert." And I hardly think that it requires an expert to say "A hunting bullet must be able to reliably penetrate to the vital area of the game being shot." I was simply unaware that any HP's fit that requirement.
Are you having a bad day Thump? You seem to be in a rather poor mood.

Min
January 26, 2004, 06:10 PM
What kind of foreigners?

mr_uk
January 26, 2004, 06:12 PM
I dont know, I just heard that poeple from other countries started it, I dont even know how true that is.. and this website cant remember that I'm logged in, I spent the last 15 mins trying to log myself back in

mr_uk
January 26, 2004, 06:17 PM
last year when the police asked for poeple to hand in thier unregistered weapons, they got all sorts of stuff, pistols, sniper rifles, carbines, assault rifles, a few RPG7s and even wheeled artillary.

my dad still hasent handed in his air rifle or air pistol, but whats the point?

Mal H
January 26, 2004, 06:18 PM
Balog - I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I believe Thumper was directing his Capstick comment at himself not at you.

Balog
January 26, 2004, 06:25 PM
Mal H: really? Not how I read it, but I've been wrong before.:p

Iain
January 26, 2004, 06:43 PM
Good evening mr_uk,

As you may have gathered Peter Rabbit would be wise not to run into Mr MacGregor's garden and tell him how to grow cabbages.

Good luck with the air cadets, had a few friends that did that, they seemed to enjoy it. Welcome to the High Road, it would seem that you managed to push a few buttons but generally this place is the most good natured forum I have seen. Much to learn here.

jfh
January 26, 2004, 06:59 PM
When I ran the marksmanship program at a boys camp in northwestern Wisconsin (find Wisconsin on a map) one of my counselor staff was from the UK and he was in a program similar to what you are doing.

He was older, and I think it had to do with the Army--and they had graduated on up through to shooting your assault rifles, etc.

So, how far can you go with your program? For how long? Tell us more about it.

Ryder
January 26, 2004, 07:12 PM
I was just wondering if other countries are this crazzy and are we all planning on attacking each other in the near future?

First rifle I got to shoot on a regular basis was when I was 15 years old in school. It was an M1 garand shooting 30-06 caliber. We were able to shoot out to 500 yards. We started with 22LR target rifles in the school basement. They had a range down there. This was even out in California. It was ROTC (reserve officer training corps) and considered an alternative to participating in gym class.

England has nothing we want. If you guys get frisky out of a need to reduce your population or something like that we'll probably oblige you (again). :D

Welcome youngster.

GM7RQK
January 26, 2004, 07:19 PM
jfh, that would be the Army cadets, similar thing, I was involved a number of years ago but it was old Lee Enfields and 22s then, they didn't get to shoot the modern stuff :)

Ryder : we seem to be managing population control OK with all the nutters about in this country and no method to defend ourselves :mad: , now if you felt like taking us over and having the 2nd ammendment apply over here ...... :D

Moparmike
January 26, 2004, 08:08 PM
did I mention that an ak costs £60? i think thats around 120 dollars.Is that semi or full-auto? Either way, I would gladly pay that along with shipping if I could. I am paying $400 out the door for an SAR-1.:(

45R
January 26, 2004, 08:18 PM
All your bases are belong to us! :)

Tamara
January 26, 2004, 08:31 PM
Gee, when I was in AFJROTC the firing pins for the Garands were all safely locked away... :uhoh:

Jeff White
January 26, 2004, 09:10 PM
Welcome mr_uk. I have a good friend in your country who I met while he was serving in your armed forces. I know that despite all the press, the shooting sports aren't dead over there yet.

It's good to know they still have programs like Air Cadets.

Jeff

Stand_Watie
January 27, 2004, 02:27 AM
Welcome Mr. Uk - if you stick around here, I'll bet there's a lot for you to learn. I've been shooting since I was a kid, and I've picked a lot up just in the short time I've been here.

I wonder if your 'air cadets' is a similar organization to the US 'civil air patrol'?

http://www.cap.gov/quickinfo/student.html

or like the junior ROTC

http://www-rotc.monroe.army.mil/jrotc/

Regardless, I wouldn't say teenagers practicing with rifles with adult supervision is liable to raise many eyebrows in most of the US...Here's a picture from THR's hunting forum

http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/aaa_graphics/83e910fd50ebXXXF.jpg

Ten-year-old Dylan Hovey of Victory shot this 875-pound bull moose with 591/2-inch rack at the Victory pipeline Saturday

j.wise
January 27, 2004, 02:35 AM
Welcom Mr. UK-

Which part is crazy, training young men in marksmanship and discipline, or caging them in with barbed wire fences to do it?

Your cultural bias is showing... Rural Americans learned to shoot as soon as they were big enough to shoulder a rifle. My uncle tells me of my grandfather giving him 3 .22lr cartridges each afternoon after school. If he didn't come home with 3 rabbits for dinner, he better have the remainder in bullets!

Kids never went berzerk with guns until video games showed them how! :what: :barf:

pax
January 27, 2004, 04:31 AM
Welcome to THR, mr_uk. I'm glad you are able to use a gun, and hope you are able to stick around and learn lots here at THR.

Attached is a picture of my family at the range. We'd just finished using a .22 rifle to blow a hole in the pumpkin which I picked up to show them, and we were talking about what would have happened if that had been a human being -- an important safety lesson for kids who spend any amount of time around guns.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=327000

At the time the picture was taken, the boys were ages 13, 11, 9, 8, and 7. That trip, each of the boys shot the .22 rifle at the vegetables (incidentally, zucchini work much better than pumpkins do for this sort of thing -- zucchini pretty well explode when hit right). The older two also shot a 9mm handgun (a Glock 26), and a .38 special revolver. I shot a .44 magnum for them, and also demonstrated a 12-gauge shotgun for them. None of the boys were eager to shoot the larger guns, and of course we did not push them since there will be plenty of time for them to shoot those when they are a bit older.

We are in no way a very unusual family in rural America. You won't often see families doing this sort of thing in the big city, but this is what rural America looks like.

pax

The history of this country was made largely by people who wanted to be left alone. Those who could not thrive when left to themselves never felt at ease in America. -- Eric Hoffer

seeker_two
January 27, 2004, 05:36 AM
Welcome to the party, mr_uk. Despite the attitudes of some people so far, we're really a good group to be around. Hope you give us a chance.

You're racking up some impressive firearms skills. I didn't learn to field-strip my SMLE until a few years ago, and I had to learn from an old Guns & Ammo magazine article. In my state, you're not considered an adult until you've learned to shoot. :D

Hollowpoint ammo is OK for its intended purpose. Most hollowpoints are made to expand rapidly in a target w/o penetrating too deeply. In your comrade's case, I think he probably had match hollowpoint--which don't expand at all but keep the bullet balanced in flight. Myself, I like large-caliber hard-cast lead flatpoint bullets...:cool:

also. the criminals here used to be mildly honorable, they wouldent use pistols or rifles against the police because they dident use them. and then the foriegners came over and spoiled it all.

I sympathize with your plight. While I don't have a problem w/ the ones who immigrate legally, the illegal ones have caused us nothing but grief...:fire:

That's ok. A little Capstick can make anyone an expert.

Don't listen to him. If you read the books of Elmer Keith (Hell, I Was There) and Col. Jeff Cooper (The Art of the Rifle), then you'll be a firearms GOD... ;)

Owen
January 27, 2004, 08:37 AM
I started shooting when I was 8. I brought home a PETA flyer from school, complaining about how hunters are bad men. My dad just about flipped.

Within a week I had my first .22 rifle. I started competing in small bore rifle at the local junior marksmanship club when I was 9 or 10. I was shooting a Remington 541T supplied by the US Government.

When I turned 11, I started shooting Highpower, using an M1 Garand, supplied by the US Government. After a few months, one of my fellow competitors gave me a tricked out, brand new, Match Grade AR-15 to "break in." I'm pretty sure he was just showing mercy, as I was pretty scrawny at the time, and usually had a giant bruise after every match. However, if you are reading this Rodney Wells, thanks! I owe you a beer the next time I am in Connecticut.

I started hunting when I was 12. In Connecticut, 12 was the youngest age you could get a hunting license. I received a Remington 1100 for my 13th birtday, and an AR-15 for my 16th birthday.

Where did it all end up? I now design guns for a living, and spend most of my disposable income on shooting. If I hadn't become interested in shooting, I probably would have never come to know my father. Heck, I would probably be a panty-waisted liberal!

So mr_uk, work hard at marksmanship, and the rewards will be great. The rewards may not be financial, but there will be spiritual rewards beyond all measure.

Treatise on the benefits of youth shooting to follow in a few days.

owen

mr_uk
January 27, 2004, 08:37 AM
Ever heard of Wolf ammo? kalashnikov assault rifle rounds repackaged as hunting rounds. its so old that the charge in the back of the round leaves a large amount of corrosives in the barrel.

mr_uk
January 27, 2004, 08:53 AM
my squadron has 3 enfields on site, they are absolutly buetifle weapons.
but they've had holes drilled through their barrels so they are next to useless.

has anyone seen 'enemy at the gates'? its about a russian soldier who starts with no rifle and ends up a sniper. does anyone know what that rifle is?

Balog
January 27, 2004, 08:54 AM
mr_uk wrote:Ever heard of Wolf ammo? kalashnikov assault rifle rounds repackaged as hunting rounds. its so old that the charge in the back of the round leaves a large amount of corrosives in the barrel.

Not exactly. While the primers of most Com-Block surplus ammo do contain corrosive salts, Wolf ammunition is newly manufactered and non-corrosive. It is also manufactured in a variety of calibers other than the 7.62x39 used in the SKS and AK variants. If you do a search here you'll see quite a few threads that either deal with it specifically or mention it as part of a range report. Hope that helps.

Of, BTW. When you mentioned the cost of an AK in Britain, would I be correct in assuming that you are talking about the "street price" of an outlawed weapon? I thought that rifles of that sort were more or less banned in the UK?

Balog
January 27, 2004, 08:58 AM
mr_uk wrote:has anyone seen 'enemy at the gates'? its about a russian soldier who starts with no rifle and ends up a sniper. does anyone know what that rifle is?

The soldier who's life that movie was based on is Vasili Zaitsev. I've seen other ways of spelling his name, but that is close.
The rifle he used was a sniper variant of the M91/30 Mosin-Nagant. It differed from the standard one in having a scope mounted and the bolt handle turned down at an angle. Again, much info can be obtained about it in the Rifle forum.

mr_uk
January 27, 2004, 08:58 AM
oh, I must have misread what the article said.

I think your right, you might be able to get semi auto weapons that look like aks but not the real thing

mr_uk
January 27, 2004, 09:00 AM
thanks balog.

where would our friendly naberhood terrorists be today without the russians?

Tamara
January 27, 2004, 09:02 AM
has anyone seen 'enemy at the gates'? its about a russian soldier who starts with no rifle and ends up a sniper. does anyone know what that rifle is?

It's a Mosin-Nagant. They sell in the $50-$100 range in the 'States right now and are quite popular milsurps. I have two. :)

mr_uk
January 27, 2004, 09:12 AM
ambidextrous sniper?

I wish I could get a gun, but I cant.
so I've made up for it by learning to make explosives. I havent put this knowlage into action of course...

Balog
January 27, 2004, 09:20 AM
You'll want to be careful about that homemade explosive info. If you're going off the Anarchists Cookbook or internet sources the only thing you'd have a decent chance of blowing up would be yourself.

Iain
January 27, 2004, 09:29 AM
You'd be lucky to get an AK variant in semi. My old uni club had a Ruger 10/22, think that is about the limit of semi-auto's available since Hungerford - anything more than .22lr is 'fullbore' under British law.

mr_uk, it is possible to get a gun, you will have to wait for a few years to own your own. Investigate local shooting clubs, see what there is. Fair amount of clay shooting around too.

mr_uk
January 27, 2004, 09:37 AM
no chance of that, I'l either have a heart attack from dropping a fether near it (iodine crystals + namonia) or burn to death (vasaline + bleach)

wanderinwalker
January 27, 2004, 09:40 AM
mr_uk,
Welcome the THR and work hard on that marksmanship. Such skills might come in handy someday when you least expect to need them.

FWIW, it is true that Americans (rural ones anyway) don't regard teenagers with guns as abnormal. Heck, here in New Hampshire you're abnormal if you DON'T have a gun by the time you're 16 (either abnormal or from Massachussett, either way). I'm 20 myself and have an evil "assault rifle" AR-15 (civvie M-16), a hunting rifle, a shotgun and an old Mauser, along with access to many other fun pieces of hardware.

pax,
The 13 year old didn't want to shoot a .44?! Wow! I fired my first one when I was about that old and am without one for the first time since then. I also learned to fire an M-1 Garand when I was 14/15. No, I'm not overly large and able to deal with recoil (currently 5' 8" and 160-ish pounds, was smaller then) but I've never been hurt or bruised by any large caliber rifle.

Enough rambling, take care all, and shoot straight,
~Nate

El Tejon
January 27, 2004, 09:44 AM
Welcome, young man.:)

BTW, Chinee copies, Type 56s, are most present among AQT. The PRC is not so picky about end user certs.:D

If you enjoyed reading about "hi, Im from the uk, Im 14, and I can fire an SA80 varient legaly" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!