[AJ Dual]

From the WCCA: www.wisconsinconcealedcarry.com

Madison - 01.26.04

The state Assembly has scheduled the vote on the override of Governor Doyle's veto of the Personal Protection act concealed carry bill for tomorrow, Tuesday, January 27th.

Last week we had roughly two hundred supporters pack the senate galleries in a show of force. While senate minority leader Jon Erpenbach played games and stalled the vote until the following day, the presence of so many supporters definitely had an effect on the outcome of the vote.

For the assembly override, we're going to need even more people to show their support. We need to pack the galleries and spill out into the hallways. We need to have such an overwhelming presence that the representatives will think twice about switching their votes.

Make no mistake: we're going to win or lose by possibly just one vote. Your presence, and the presence of any friends that you can bring along, will help ensure our victory.

Governor Doyle is going to order state troopers and sheriffs to go to the capitol--on the clock and on your taxpayer dime--to make a showing opposing the bill. Meanwhile, many of us will have to take a vacation day or unpaid day of leave in order to make our presence known. But what price victory? With victory just a vote away, isn't it worth it to you to spend a day at the Capitol to make Wisconsin the 47th state to legalize concealed carry?

Governor Doyle is proud of a ban on concealed carry that dates back to 1873. He's proud of a ban that traces its roots to the racist lobbying efforts of the Ku Klux Klan following the freeing of slaves, efforts that were aimed at keeping minorities unarmed and defenseless.

Governor Doyle is proud of the "low" rate of violent crime in Wisconsin. He's proud that we "only" have 12,000 rapes, robberies, assaults and other violent crimes here in Wisconsin every year, many of which could be prevented if victims had the means to defend themselves.

Governor Doyle is wrong. And your presence at the Capitol will convince representatives that he's wrong.

Please be at the Capitol between 10am and noon tomorrow for this historic vote. Meanwhile, continue to call the two Democrat representatives whom we need to keep on our side. Be as polite as you possibly can. Thank them for their original vote. Tell them that you strongly want the veto overridden. If you're from their districts, assure them that you will be voting for them in the fall elections, and will get every member of your family, gun club and circle of friends to vote for them as well. If you're not from their districts, tell them that you will support their re-elections in every way possible. Those representatives are:

Representative Gary Sherman (608) 266-7690 or (888) 534-0074.

Representative Amy Sue Vruwink (608)266-8366 or (888) 534-0070.

Some who receive these email alerts are nervous about calling legislators. They feel threatened by the legislators and their staffers. Know this: those legislators and their staffers are afraid of you. With more than half of the adult population in Wisconsin owning guns, you are part of the most powerful special interest group in the state.

Our sheer numbers as gun owners has resulted in a long list of legislative victories that other states envy: the defeat of the Milwaukee and Kenosha handgun bans; passage of statewide pre-emption legislation that repealed Madison's handgun ban; passage of the Range Protection Act; passage of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms amendment; defeat of Jim Doyle's attempt to ban primers and ammunition; passage of the Right to Hunt, Fish and Trap amendment; and more.

When gun owners speak with one voice, we win. And we can win on Tuesday.

Please join us at the Capitol for the last fight in a battle that began ten years ago.

Once again, failure is not an option!

Directions: take I-90 or I-94 to Madison. At the I-90/I-94 junction, you'll see a sign Highway 30 west into Madison. Take highway 30 west, and exit at the large sign for the Capitol. You'll then be on Washington Avenue, which runs right up to the Capitol. There are parking lots and ramps at several locations near the Capitol. Here's a map showing the parking areas: www.ci.madison.wi.us/parking/parking.html


p.s. I've tried to call the listed critical legislators today, and all their voicemail boxes were full. Please keep trying. Hopefully the VM boxes are all full of messages from those supporting the bill...

[AJ Dual]

Also from the WCCA: www.wisconsinconcealedcarry.com

Madison - 01.26.04

We have just received word from Representative Gunderson's office that Representative Gary Sherman is the most likely to change his vote on the concealed carry bill tomorrow. Remember, Representative Sherman was one of the two Democrat co-sponsors of the bill when it was introduced last summer.

Please call Representative Sherman and ask him to not play politics with your right to self-defense. Be very polite. Do not get angry or threaten him. Again, promise to help him in his re-election campaign in the fall. If you're from his district, promise that you and everyone you know will vote for him if he votes to override the veto.

Representative Sherman's number is (608) 266-7690 or (888) 534-0074.


As of lunchtime, his VM box was full too. Keep trying!

[Monkeyleg]

This morning Governor Doyle had a press conference at the YMCA in South Milwaukee, where he had the usual phalanx of chiefs and sheriffs behind him. After Doyle's comments, Jim Fendry of the Wisconsin Pro-Gun Movement was allowed to give his comments to the press, and he was backed by several LEO's holding signs that read "Law Enforcement Supporting Concealed Carry."

Well, I just ran through the five local stations, and not one showed Fendry with the supporting officers, one of whom is the sheriff for one of the most affluent and populous counties in the state.

On Fox 6 news, the anchor made statements about the assembly voting on a bill that would "relax restrictions on carrying hidden weapons into crowded malls, concerts, movie theaters and other places." This, mind you, was before they ran the footage of Governor Doyle's comments.

I was so enraged that I called the station's producer and laid into her for the biased coverage. She insisted that it wasn't.

Now I know why I never watch the local news. :fire:

[xenophon]

This is it guys. It's do or die tomorrow in Madison, WI for the Assembly veto override vote for SB214, the personal protection act for licensed concealed carry. If we can keep all the democrat votes from the original vote and gain the 2 pretty much guaranteed republican switch votes, the bill will become law, if not, it's game over. Please, if you have any time when you get up Tuesday morning, light up the phones at the Assembly for those Reps that voted for the bill originally.

x

[Standing Wolf]

The nation stands with you, Wisconsin.

[Stickjockey]

On Wisconsin!

Go get 'em, guys!

[litman252]

Damnit all, I am actually nervious over this..........
I'll call tommorrow, I hope the rest of you do as well.
Thanks to all those that put in so much time for the fight.
Tony

[Gfrey]

I just called both and mailboxes are full.

Will try again in morning.


Gfrey

[Shooter 2.5]

I have a bad feeling we're going to lose this one. I hope not but at least we'll put up a fight.

Keep the letters and phone calls going. Gary Sherman seems to want to change his vote against us.

[Monkeyleg]

Do not have a bad feeling. Before last Wednesday's senate hearing, the pessimism was rampant. A whole number of things changed the playing field, and we won.

Give in, and you give up. Get down to Madison and have your voices heard and your faces seen!

What's going on behind the scenes would make anyone here pretty ill. But we can win. It's us, over 2 million WI gun owners, and the NRA against one governor whose approval ratings are below 40%.

I like those odds.

[RangerHAAF]

May fortune smile upon the gun owners of Wisconsin. If you don't get it this time, be patient, time is on your side and those legislators who don't vote to override will answer for their treachery in November; and I just don't mean in Wisconsin.

[AJ Dual]

Current Assembly status from the webpage:
http://www.wisconsinconcealedcarry.com/html/resources.html

THE WISCONSIN STATE ASSEMBLY
STANDS ADJOURNED UNTIL
TUESDAY, JANUARY 27, 2004 AT 1:00 P.M.

Here is the agenda. The override is on the schedule as the first vote.

Calendar for: Regular 2003-2004 Session 1/27/2004
1. Call of the Roll
2. Introduction and Reference of Proposals
3. Committee Reports
4. Messages from the Senate
5. Consideration of Conference Committee Reports

SB214 - Links...
Vote-Concurrence
Vote-Senate Override


SB214 is the CCW bill.

[Shooter 2.5]

Monkeyleg, My bad feelings about this make me work that much harder. It's people sitting on the sidelines who think everything is a slamdunk that bother me. We can pull this off but it will because everyone will work at it. Those deerhunters better get off their couches and throw away the remote this morning.

[Shooter 2.5]

Two dems we need on our side:
Representative Gary Sherman (608) 266-7690 or (888) 534-0074.

Representative Amy Sue Vruwink (608)266-8366 or (888) 534-0070.

[AJ Dual]

Has anybody gotten through to them?

I tried yesterday and their voicemail boxes were full.

Hopefully, that's a good sign.

[mpthole]

I just called and spoke with a woman at Sherman's office. Vruwink's office had a voice-mail answer and I left a message.

[xenophon]

2 Calls made and someone did pick up on both calls. 10am. Looks like they meet at 1pm today at the Assembly so that gives more time for calls to the other Democrats. Hope everyone else is keeping the calls up:

http://www.legis.state.wi.us/assembly/asmhomepages.html

x

[xenophon]

Oh, and I saw a concealed carry poll on the WIBA news/radio website which is out of Madison, hit it up guys!(50% - 49%) http://www.wiba.com/main.html

x

[AJ Dual]

I was able to get through to both offices as of 10:30 am.

[AV1611]

Got five friends (plus me) to call Vruwink & Sherman this morning. Some voice mails. Some actually got through to a person. Keep it up people!

AV1611 out...

Edited...

Just called the other five democrats and the two iffy republicans.

AV1611 out...

[AV1611]

Keep it up people! Today could be the day! My Glock 26 wants a home at 4:00 inside my waistband.

AV1611 out...

[tommytrauma]

I tried to make my calls yesterday, but found all the voice mailboxs' full. So, I walked on down to the Capitol and shared my thoughts in person.

This is going to be close, but I'm feeling optimistic.

[AJ Dual]

Good lord, two hours to go...

I'm having a http://www.priorityscripts.com/mylanta_orig.jpg moment...

[xenophon]

Dude, you too? Man, and I gotta leave for work at 1:30p, talk about an upset stomach day, jesus.

x

[repsychler]

It looks like the assembly can be watched live:

http://www.legis.state.wi.us/insession/assembly/indexvideo.htm

[MJRW]

Is it me, or does the Wisconsin Legislature get more lunch breaks than Rosie O'Donnel?

[mpthole]

Un-freaking-believable!!!! :cuss: I just watched and listend to that mess. What in God's name are they doing over there in Madison?!?!?!

[antsi]

QUOTE: Un-freaking-believable!!!! I just watched and listend to that mess. What in God's name are they doing over there in Madison?!?!?!


Details please! What's going on?

Relax... three deep breaths...

[Fulliautomatix]

It gets better... :rolleyes:


THE ASSEMBLY STANDS IN RECESS FOR THE PURPOSE OF PARTISAN CAUCUS



Stay tuned.. same bat time... same bat channel... :banghead:


Doyle isn't speaking tonight is he? :barf:

[Shooter 2.5]

You're not going to believe this from remembering what happened last time. We had our supporters in the Capitol ready to go and they called a Senate caucus that lasted all day.

Today, with only one minute into the assembly, the dems called for another caucus. A brief caucus. The pols broke out laughing when they heard the word brief.

Bastards.

[enfield]

What I think I heard on the site was that a REPUBLICAN caucus was being called.

[AJ Dual]

I'd wager a guess that to many of the legislators, this override is "bigger" than just the RKBA, and self-defense issues that the CCW bill has on the surface.

I think that there are some in the Republican majority leadership that are absolutely just itching to get an override on Governor Doyle. There hasn't been a successful gubernatorial veto override in WI for over fifteen years. They also lost a critical state wide spending/property tax cap veto override last fall by one vote that flipped by surprise at the last minute.

So I think there are those out there who want this override very, very, badly, for reasons that have nothing to do with our gun rights, whether they support them or not.

The good news is that may mean there may be significant horse-trading going on behind the scenes to get this override through. So perhaps that will help us.

[Abe]

According to Mark Belling, local radio (WISN - 1130AM) it's a Democratic caucus...he says his sources indicate all 59 Republicans are going to vote to override. We need seven Democrats.

Stand By...

- Abe

[romulus]

Belling isn't optimistic and I'm afraid he's right. Doyle is such a snake only God knows what threats and empty promises he's making behind the scenes...

[Strings]

until today, I've been fairly pessimistic about the whole thing. However, a friend had a VERY long talk with our very anti assemblycritter (Zeigelbauer). And, although he's still completely against it, HE thinks it's gonna pass...

Still in recess for "Partisan Caucus" at 1537. Where's that nailbite smiley when we need it?

[AJ Dual]

I would guess that Belling (A Milwaukee conservative raido personality for those not from SE WI...)isn't optimistic because he's looking at override passage from a odds standpoint, like calculating footbal picks from the Vegas points spread.

There Senate passed CCW with four extra votes than needed to override. They lost three votes, and passed the override with one extra vote to spare.

The Assembly passed CCW two votes shy of being override proof, but with two Republicans who voted against it promising to vote for the override. That meant that CCW had exactly the 66 assemblymen needed. So all Doyle has to do is turn one of the 7 Democrats.

So from a pure odds standpoint Belling is right, the Assembly is a harder fight. But that dosen't account for the human factor. We have no idea exactly what pressure is being brought to bear.

But if it's the Democratic caucus holding things up, it may well be that the Democratic minority leadership is afraid they'll lose again, just like they did in the Senate. :D Conversely, it could be giving them one more chance to pressure the 7 critical Democrat Assemblymen into changing their votes. :(

It cuts both ways.

But Doyle isn't the only one who can make threats or promises. I've been told that our side has some pretty big incentives for the 7 Democrats to not switch. Also all 7 of those Democrats are representing small town and rural districts, not the big liberal cesspools like Madison and Milwaukee.

This is right on the knife edge. I am neither optimistic nor pessimistic.

[xenophon]

Still in recess for "Partisan Caucus" at 1537. Where's that nailbite smiley when we need it?

For real, this is more suspenseful than most movies I've watched all year.

x

[tommytrauma]

I spoke briefly with the NRA lobbyist yesterday evening. He understood that at least one republican wouldn't be at the session until tonight, and that he expected a stall of the vote until that rep could be there. This caucus might well be a good thing.

[AJ Dual]

Assembly status board shows:

PLEASE MAKE SURE ALL CELL PHONES
ARE TURNED OFF

I think that means it's starting... :eek:

[xenophon]

yeah looks to be video up as of 3:53pm CST.

x

[enfield]

Wisconsin punted again!

[tommytrauma]

John Gard doesn't want a vote today? Can we assume then that the republicans think it can't pass right now?

Yup, the dems are pushing for a vote, the republicans are fighting it. There must be a supporter missing or something.

[Fulliautomatix]

They're back in action! :what:

http://www.legis.state.wi.us/insession/assembly/index.htm

[romulus]

Sounds like they are going to postpone till thursday! No! Move to vote at this time! What the hell...

[mpthole]

Aaaaaaagggggggghhhhhhh!!!!! I can't frickin listen to this crap anymore!!!:cuss: :fire:

[romulus]

It's getting nasty on the floor...

[Iain]

It's getting really nasty... fascinating stuff.

[AJ Dual]

Can't get the audio feed here at work.

Rep Gaurd, (R) from Peshtigo has had the floor for awhile, what's he saying?

What's Kreuser (D) from Kenosha saying back?

[Iain]

Having problems getting a reliable feed here so can't tell you. Sorry.

edit - ok so far the debate is not about the specifics of the bill (although Schneider has just said he will vote to override) but about Dem allegations that the Reps are planning to delay the vote until some Dems can't get in to vote and so pass it by underhand tactics.

[Iain]

TRAVIS - says that LEO's oppose and that the Bill is for 'crass political purposes' and that the Bill is 'repugnant'. Says that the Bill supporters don't 'have the votes'.

Still having feed issues.

Playing games over a motion to honour a soldier who fell in Iraq in order to delay/push the vote. Blood may be spilled.

[AJ Dual]

edit - ok so far the debate is not about the specifics of the bill (although Schneider has just said he will vote to override) but about Dem allegations that the Reps are planning to delay the vote until some Dems can't get in to vote and so pass it by underhand tactics.


Hmmm. "Underhanded", I guess that would be in contrast to Chavala's completely above board way that he ignored a majority voice-vote to table CCW for 2003 until Doyle could be elected...

Sauce for the goose, and all...

[romulus]

The Dems seem hell bent on voting today...they must be pretty confident they have the votes to sustain the override :barf:

[romulus]

Who's the missing republican? Missing for what reason?

[AJ Dual]

The board just changed...

SUSPEND RULES TO TAKE UP

SJR 57 BY HARSDORF -LIFE OF 1ST
LIEUTENANT JEREMY LEE WOLFE

Did they just switch back to this commendation for the Lt. KIA in Iraq?

Did the Republicans manage to stall on SB214?

[tommytrauma]

Nope. The dems are still pushing for a vote.

[Iain]

Arguing about all the money spent.

HEBL - saying that the 'majority of Wisconsin citizens are opposed to concealed carry.' Says that Wisconsin should not join the others because 'if everyone jumped off the bridge would you join them?'

[romulus]

Brother, I guess that should be expected..."I'm a hunter, I hunt, but I'm against this bill..."

[AJ Dual]

This is all Tommy Thompsons fault.

Who gives a rip if he's the Sec. of Health and Human Services?

If he were Gov of WI still, we'd have had CCW for a year now.

[Iain]

BOYLE - we don't need you and your gun violence in this state

[tommytrauma]

God, Boyle's gonna make me puke. Can't someone PLEASE shut him up?

[Beren]

Omigod!! THis Boyle is a nutball.. "I want to talk about all the children who are going to die if this bill becomes law."

[Strings]

... I gave up listening. Just too much for me. Maybe we'll have better luck next time, when we've got Dolt (er, Doyle) out of office...

[romulus]

I'm afraid so...what were those nutty statistics that Boyle bandied about? Where do they come from?

[tommytrauma]

Hunter, you give up too easily. The vote won't take place today, simply because one of our supporters isn't present. Things look as good for Thursday as they looked yesterday.

[repsychler]

I feel for you Wisonsinites. I watched our CCW pass live in the Minnesota Senate gallery, very gut-wrenching. Same kind of idiocy from the anti's. (We even had some come back from a recess wearing flak jackets)

[Beren]

Bickering again now about the vote delay.

[AJ Dual]

Ahh,

That leads back to that earlier post that the NRA lobbyist said a Republican couldn't make it until later tonight. I took it to mean that the Republicans were stalling untill Thursday hoping some Democrats would be missing.

Since the Republicans have the majority, I assume the Democrats can't force the vote?


OK, I'll breathe easier..

For about five minutes.

[Shooter 2.5]

Let me go on record to say I hate the dem party.
I don't want to hear how each party is the same.
The dem party is the party of the gun grabbing anti-Rights, Socialistic commies.
And the CCW battles prove it.:fire:

[Frohickey]

Okay... what the heck just happened?

No vote on the CCW bill?
And what with all of these stupid acknowledgements about kids working, and stuff like that at the very end?

Seems that some Wisconsinites need to fire a whole lot of their assemblycritters!!!
:cuss:

[Abe]

Can hardly wait to hear the inside report from Monkeyleg as you gotta believe he was there...

- Abe

[romulus]

Boyle may be a nutcase but the real villain in this whole thing is Kreuser. Voted for the bill, now wants to shoot it down. He is unopposed in his district so I can see him thinking he'll get away with it...

[xenophon]

Well, since the vote is delayed, that means more time to make phone calls, and send faxes/emails to Representatives. Of course the main brunt of force should be on Vruwink and Sherman, we need to keep pressure on all 7 Democrats, and also Republicans Olsen and Townsend. Now is not the time to let up, and I'm going to try my hardest to show up to the Capitol when they do schedule the next vote so we need to have a force greater than ever there for the vote. Lets go get em!

x

[CommonSense]

Boyle may be a nutcase but the real villain in this whole thing is Kreuser. Voted for the bill, now wants to shoot it down.

romulus: Where are you getting your facts? Kreuser voted against this bill. He did vote FOR an entirely different version last session.

[CommonSense]

To everyone wondering what’s going on. The votes to override Gov Doyle weren’t there. Both sides took a recess to confirm they would win any vote. The Anti group had the votes to sustain Gov Doyle’s veto. The Pro side acknowledged the loss, refused to admit defeat, and rescheduled the vote. Your imagination can take it from there.

[CommonSense]

This is all Tommy Thompsons fault.

AJ Dual: Tommy Thompson didn't want this bill (or anything similar) to go anywhere on his watch and he made that clear. Be careful what you ask for.

[Mulliga]

I don't live in Wisconsin, but this Governor Doyle sounds like a real @#$%head...concealed carry reform is probably the least contentious issue gunwise (probably because most states have concealed carry and are doing just fine).

Now I understand why there are "Recall Doyle" stickers for sale at http://www.libertyoutlet.com

It's so hilarious that he is worried about drunk/emotional people with guns. I mean, what about drunk/emotional people with cars?

[romulus]

romulus: Where are you getting your facts? Kreuser voted against this bill. He did vote FOR an entirely different version last session.
Sorry, meant Sherman...

[sturmruger]

AJ Dual you were thinking excatly what I was thinking!!!! That lousy piece of slime Chuck Chavala did some of the exact same stuff they are accusing us of. Except he completly ignored everyone and violated the rules!!! At least the Majority Leader follwed the rules. Chavala is one of they worst politicians I have ever seen. I hope to write to him some day when he is in federal prison.

[Monkeyleg]

Wow! Isn't this amazing. CommenSense hasn't been around THR since the big fight months back over CCW and now--shazam!--he reappears to bash it.

The vote may or may not happen tomorrow. Gary Sherman may need more pressure.

And, to give CommonSense some credit, he's right about Tommy Thompson. Thompson never wanted this bill to hit his desk. He didn't want to have to confront members of his party on an issue this "controversial."

If we have the vote tomorrow, it's either going to be 65--one vote short--or we're going to see 66 votes, then 67, or even 68 as Democrats who voted against it line up to be on the pro-gun side.

If we lose on the override, every single Democrat in the state will be targetted by the NRA this fall. The Republicans will pick up seats in both houses. Doyle will have succeeded in destroying his own party.

What a complete jerk.

[antsi]

Monkeyleg, kudos to you hardworking WI folks. Too close to call for this round, but it looks like even if you don't get it this year you will get CCW before long. Keep up the good work.

[Gfrey]

Whom do we need to call today yet?

I'll call my rep, but since he is a sponser of the bill he isn't going to change his vote.
Thanks,

Gfrey

[Monkeyleg]

Here are the names and email addresses of legislators to write:

Representative Gary Sherman from the Port Wing area (888)-534-0074

Representative John Steinbrink from the Pleasant Prairie area (608)-266-0455

Representative Terry Van Akkeren from Sheboygan (608)-266-0656

Representative Amy Sue Vruwink from the Milladore/Plover area (888)-534-0070

You can also email them at rep.sherman@legis.state.wi.us , rep.steinbrink@legis.state.wi.us , rep.vruwink@legis.state.wi.us , and rep.vanakkeren@legis.state.wi.us .

Again, be very positive and polite. We need these people on our side.

[AJ Dual]

Thanks for passing along what Common Sense said. I still have him on ignore. :) I used my spared mental health to instead make another round of calls and e-mails this morning.

My Rant about losing Gov. Tommy was a joke, more of a roundabout statement about how we got the decent, but uncharismatic, Lt. Gov. McCallum, then Doyle etc... I figured McCallum for a one-termer once Chavala got away with his chicanery last year.

I know he was a big-spending Neo-Con sort of Blue-blood (what of his blood wasn't alcohol..) elitist sort of Republican who probably held somewhat anti feelings towards CCW. But I bet Thompson would have reluctantly signed it if we could have forced it to him. I sincerely doubt he'd have been any worse than Taft down in Ohio, and they have their CCW now, baring any last minute legal tantrums by the antis.

So reminding us that the NRA and the WIPGM will attack all the flipped votes if the override fails shows hope for CCW in '05. Was the statement about CCW being "dead until '07 at the earliest" just hyperbole to rally the troops?

[romulus]

...sort of Blue-blood
hahaha, that's rich, I was embarassed for him everytime he elocuted. Good guv, though I was unaware of his CCW views...

[AJ Dual]

LOL!...

Yes, point conceded. Emphasis on "sort of" for the blue blood part. :D

The guy allways had a mouth full of marbles, not even to mention when he had help from a few martinis.

[CommonSense]

Wow! Isn't this amazing. CommenSense hasn't been around THR since the big fight months back over CCW and now--shazam!--he reappears to bash it.

Hi Monkeyleg: I missed where I bashed it. I simply stated the current state of events.

Good to see you're still in your best user bashing uniform though. :rolleyes:

[litman252]

Just called all 4 monkeyleg posted.
Please do the same if your in the state.

Someone just got added to ignore, anyone wonder who????

Tony:cool:

[CommonSense]

Someone just got added to ignore, anyone wonder who????

Heavens no! Not another user afraid of the written word! I wonder if he/she had to ignore the conversation because he or she was having mental health problems as well as DJ Dual claimed to have. If so, I'm glad he/she is ignoring what they can't handle. The last thing I need is to pay for another nutcase's treatment.

Everyone keep this quiet. Those with mental health problems don't qualify for a permit if passed. :D

[Don Gwinn]

Commonsense, that's about enough. Don't take the bickering any further.

Monkeyleg, clearly Commonsense did not intend to "bash" the WI CCW effort. I didn't see anything he posted that looked liked bashing. If you thought he was wrong about the way things happened, all you had to do was say how and why.

Let's get back to discussing the issue at hand.

[CommonSense]

Don Gwinn: Please accept my apology. It was never my intention to re-direct the focus of the conversation.

[Shooter 2.5]

The overide Assembly vote is scheduled for early Tuesday. Possibly as early as 10:05.

[Monkeyleg]

Don, I was not necessarily referring to what CommonSense said on this particular thread, but on the numerous posts he made before the first senate and assembly votes. I don't need to go into detail about his posting history; it's all available to anyone here who wants to check his user profile. He showed up a week or so before the senate and assembly votes, then disappeared shortly thereafter.

I just find his sudden reappearance, six days away from an historic veto override vote, to be a little bit suspicious.

If I'm wrong, or if I'm out of line here, then I'll apologize to him, to you, and to everyone on THR. Right now I'm running on little sleep, as are many other volunteers in this effort. The phones are ringing all day, emails are constant, and patience is one of the rarest commodities. It's hard enough to be polite with two-faced, back-stabbing politicians during the day, much less wonder if your friends on THR are really your friends.

[Art Eatman]

Apologies or no, from anybody to anyone aside, there's a reason for PMs and Emails: One's opinions of others shouldn't be posted in public. THR threads just aren't the place for insults or flames or name-calling.

Start another thread on the subject, when apropos to do so--and stay cool, calm and collected.

Art