300AAC Blackout + hunting?


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desidog
September 21, 2011, 01:41 PM
There's a lot of threads over in the Rifle section about this latest hyped up flavor of ammo. I'm interested in learning more about it as a hunting round...although i can't hunt suppressed, i could practice suppressed without driving all the game away, which is a plus. However, besides suppression, I'm not convinced that this round can do anything my 7.62x39 AR can't do, except cost more, per practice round.

I don't adhere to Geneva or the Ghent Convention when i hunt, and these rounds are slow enough not to expand, only tumble. So this is my primary concern. There's a wide .308 bullet selection, but bullet design has to be considered on both the weapon-functionality standpoint (cycling; I've heard o-give matters), and at the other end of it's flight. I want DRT, when i do my part.

Anyone using it? Successfully? Or not, for similar concerns?

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Kachok
September 22, 2011, 04:16 PM
While the 300 Blackout does have plenty of energy/mass/momentum to hunt deer (though not at sub sonic speeds, sorry) it is not a consistant DRT round IMHO. Why? Because the bang flop kills are usualy the result of a high level of shock causing a cuncussion like effect which is usualy associated with higher impact speeds combined with rapid expansion, the anamal does not die on impact but rather bleeds out while unconscious . In contrast a slower moving bullet kills quickly by ripping/crushing multiple blood vesles and artiers causing a rapid loss of blood pressure which can kill very quickly though usualy not a dramatic bang flop like a poly tiped 140gr 7mm rem mag does. If you compare a larger caliber, heavier, slower bullet to a lighter higher speed bullet of smaller caliber with the same energy the contrast is this. Lets compare the 44 mag to the 223 since they run very similar energy levels. The 44 will tend to create a larger permanate wound canal that is more consistant in diamiter throughout, and penatration tends to be deeper. The 223 will create a noticably smaller permanate wound canal, but makes a very large temporary cavity at the point of expansion which is a clear sign of it's shock wave pressure, penatration of the lighter bulet tends to be an issue since it carries much less momentum. This is the case in almost any comparison of high speed vs large caliber bullets.
Two different approches to killing, both work but I would take the 44s consistency ANYDAY and everyday over the 223s shock.
Never depend on your bullet tumbeling to get terminal performance, especaly at low speeds, most states have an expanding bullet only law for good reason. Besides bullets that yaw intead of expand can change couse quickly, so that perfectly aimed double lung shot might veer into the gut instead.
Sorry for the lenghty nature of my message, but I felt the need to clear the air on this issue since there seems to be alot of confusion about it.
If you never want to see a deer take a step might I recomend a 270WSM with 130gr BTs at 3400fps :) If all you are concernd about is a quick ethical kill the 300 blackout is plenty of gun with full power loads.

atblis
September 22, 2011, 04:48 PM
If you already have a 7.62x39 AR and only want to hunt deer, then yeah, don't bother.

Advantages of 300 AAC/BLK

Brass is easily formed from 5.56/223 brass which is plentiful
It uses stock 223/5.56 bolts. 7.62x39 bolts are weak
It uses stock 5.56/223 magazines
It does have less case capacity then 7.62x39, which lends itself to downloading (subsonic loads)

300 AAC/BLK makes the most sense if
You specifically want to use the AR15 platform
and
You want to use a suppressor
or
You want to shoot deer sized game at short to moderate distance (200 yards or less) and do not already possess a 7.62x39 AR

It makes even more sense if you enjoy handloading and don't mind forming your own brass

The only 300 AAC/BLK specific part you need is the barrel. Everything else are regular old 223/5.56 AR parts (except any muzzle devices of course)

rsilvers
September 22, 2011, 11:05 PM
While the 300 Blackout does have plenty of energy/mass/momentum to hunt deer (though not at sub sonic speeds, sorry) it is not a consistant DRT round IMHO. Why? Because the bang flop kills are usualy the result of a high level of shock causing a cuncussion like effect which is usualy associated with higher impact speeds combined with rapid expansion, the anamal does not die on impact but rather bleeds out while unconscious .

Is this the theory of what some people call hydrostatic shock?

castingdonkey
September 23, 2011, 12:37 AM
Whats the difference between that round and the one the M1 carbine shoots?

Kachok
September 23, 2011, 01:27 AM
Is this the theory of what some people call hydrostatic shock?
Yes that is "hydrostatic shock" I put that in quotes because for that to be scientifcly correst the projectile would have to be traveling faster then the speed of sound through water (4862 fps @68 degrees F), which no hunting bullet does. I perfer the method of maximizing blood loss because it is much more reliable then the shock effect. I have even heard of deer that had been bang flopped that woke up and run off because the blood loss was not rapid enough, most likely due to the bullet not striking major blood bearing organs either due to poor shot placement or lack of penatration. The FBIs bullet wounding effect handbook describes is great detail the importance of permanate wound cavity vs the temporary shock cavity. If you have any questions regarding terminal ballistics just ask, I am VERY well read on the subject.
To anwser castingdonkey's question the 300 blackout and 7.62X39 are much more powerful cartrages then the 30 carbine. In terms of bullet weight you are looking at 90-110 gr for the carbine and 122-154gr for the 7.62X39. In terms of KE about 880 ft/lbs for the carbine and about 1800 for the AK round. HUGE difference to say the least. The 300 and 7.62 are both suitable for deer hunting within 200 yd and the carbine is iffy even at archery range.

rsilvers
September 23, 2011, 09:34 AM
Whats the difference between that round and the one the M1 carbine shoots?

The 300 AAC BLACKOUT at 220 yards has the energy of the M1 Carbine at the muzzle.

The 300 AAC BLACKOUT with a 6 inch barrel matches the M1 Carbine with an 18 inch barrel.

desidog
September 23, 2011, 01:24 PM
Thanks for the replies. It seems like this round, suppressed, is more in the ballpark of an 7.62x25 AR upper than a 7.62x39 AR upper terminal delivery wise... so i think i'll stick with what i have. The idea of only buying a new barrel was appealing; but if it ain't broke...

rsilvers
September 23, 2011, 01:35 PM
No, it is a 125 grain bullet at about 2250 fps - that is about 7.62x39, and with the higher BC, it is more than 7.62x39 down range.

desidog
September 23, 2011, 01:41 PM
2250 fps is not very quiet..... I'm talking the 220gr rounds.

I have no interest in the 125's; with other rifles that can do that better.

rsilvers
September 23, 2011, 03:56 PM
Subsonic it is like a 45 ACP in energy, except with a 0.720 BC so it does not slow down much at distance.

atblis
September 23, 2011, 04:00 PM
I am confused as to what you're trying to accomplish

desidog
September 23, 2011, 05:04 PM
I was toying with the idea of a barrel if i could shoot the same setup for practice, and remove the suppressor for the hunt; keeping all other elements stable (assuming no poi shift w/o sup).

I've intentionally not mentioned quarry or distances to keep it general...in order to find out what people think the top end is for this subsonic round.

I will add that in my state hunting is 6mm and up size wise, so .223 is out although i have an upper collecting dust; so i'd just sway the barrels out. The 6mm thing is why i got the 762x39 upper to begin with.

Zak Smith
September 23, 2011, 05:42 PM
A subsonic round will have approx the same oomph as a .41 or .44 Magnum, so if you think it's reasonable to shoot a deer at X yards with one of those, it's OK with a good bullet in .300 Whisper/Fireball/BK.

sixgunner455
September 25, 2011, 02:16 AM
If I wanted to hunt with a regular AR and had to use a 6mm or bigger cartridge, it would be a lot more tempting to me to use a 6x45mm upper than a .300 based on the same case.

rsilvers
September 25, 2011, 09:21 AM
I like the concept of the 6x45, but someone would have to adopt it and make it big in order for me to have any actual interest in it.

longdayjake
September 26, 2011, 12:54 PM
I don't see why you would want to shoot a 220 grain round from the blackout if you aren't going to use a supressor. It won't be that much quieter than a 125 grain one at 2250 fps. Any 220 grain bullet that you will find for hunting purposes is going to be designed more for penetration then for expansion. At subsonic velocities I think you are going to have problems getting them to do anything more than poking holes.

rsilvers
September 26, 2011, 01:22 PM
Even with a suppressor I prefer full power ammo.

rsilvers
September 28, 2011, 12:25 PM
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