I know it is a travesty...


PDA






Mustang51
September 21, 2011, 09:53 PM
But I didn't do it!

http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/persiansniper.jpg
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/persiansniperb.jpg
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/persiansnipera.jpg

I got it at an auction today. Description advised as follows:

"Persian "IRAN" Mauser (D-288). Model 1898/29 comes in caliber 7.92 X 57. Condition is at 95%. Drilled for scope mounts that are in place. Bore is mint. Comes with current import marks. Nice European walnut with a few bumps and dings. Beautiful blue and metal finish."


I'll post better pics and a range report when it arrives.

If you enjoyed reading about "I know it is a travesty..." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
September 22, 2011, 12:29 AM
Wow, if it weren't for the scope mount, rings, and lack of a rear sight leaf... That's a beautiful rifle. I'm jealous Mustang51.

bushmaster1313
September 22, 2011, 12:32 AM
Is that a pre WWII Czech rifle made for the Persian army?

juk
September 22, 2011, 12:35 AM
I would throw a decent scope on it and shoot the heck out of it. That is a good looking rifle, even if it has been modified.

Mustang51
September 22, 2011, 12:38 AM
Yep, it is a Pre-WWII Persian Mauser. I have several Persian Mausers that are in "un-messed with" condition.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s194/Calfed/Persian006-1.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s194/Calfed/Persian005-1.jpg


My sons and I shoot in a vintage Military rifle silhouette match and a vintage military long-range match at my range. The matches are set up for "as issued" rifles, but both matches have an "open" class for scoped military rifles. We have heretofore only fired the match with open sights, but I kinda wanted to get either a scoped Persian or scoped '09 Argy to try out the "open" class with.

I can't bring myself to mutilate a nice mil-surp, and have been on the lookout for one that someone else had already done the dirty work on. I know that this one no longer has any collector value...but, it was priced accordingly. Based on the D & T'ing, the bolt turn-down, the base and rings, there is probably close to $150 worth of work on this one.

451 Detonics
September 22, 2011, 06:41 AM
Scope it...shoot it...be happy...

I love shooting my 98 Sporter, even with cheap surplus it will hold 1 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards. I would add a Timney trigger and Tubbs Speedlock firing pin if allowed by your range for matches.

stan rose
September 22, 2011, 08:16 AM
I have often purchased Mausers that some one has modified because the modifications are something I could not bring my self to do, and the fact that they were done often helps reduce the selling price. They have become my favorite guns to shoot and hunt with. Good luck in your matches and enjoy.

sansone
September 22, 2011, 10:33 AM
I like it that way, if installed correctly I think it's a bonus.
Let us know how it shoots

jerkface11
September 22, 2011, 10:39 AM
You should try to find an old steel tubed weaver to put on it. Or maybe an old redfield.

W L Johnson
September 22, 2011, 11:54 AM
You should try to find an old steel tubed weaver to put on it. Or maybe an old redfield.

I'll agree with that idea, get something that looks a bit old style and it wouldn't look half bad.

451 Detonics
September 22, 2011, 12:17 PM
I picked up the Weaver K 2.5 with crosshair and post on Ebay for my retro M1 Carbine sporter build...looks classic and works great!

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z271/reloader1959/rifles/car4.jpg

BrocLuno
September 22, 2011, 12:37 PM
I like it that way, if installed correctly I think it's a bonus.
Let us know how it shoots

Ditto - it's been done, now have fun :)

Blue steel tube Weaver K-4 would be perfect :)

Afy
September 23, 2011, 01:39 PM
Wish I had a Persian Mauser. They are in the best condition.

Germster
September 23, 2011, 02:26 PM
These are exceptionally well made and finished rifles! I've got the Argy that's untouched. The round is similar in power to a .308, or maybe the 300 Savage. I kinda wish that mine was fixed for a scope since I could wring the potential out of that round, but I can't bring myself to mess with mine. It is therefore a 150 yd rifle or so. You've got a 300 yd rifle there, or more and you can shoot it with a clear conscience.

kd7nqb
September 24, 2011, 10:15 AM
Not a travesty, in fact if it gets you to use the gun more than thats a GOOD thing. You damaged some collectors value but thats about it. If you want to see a travesty look what I did to a mosin m44

http://tacticaltupperware.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/dscn1184-300x225.jpg

Full Story here (http://tacticaltupperware.com/?p=244)

aka108
September 24, 2011, 10:26 AM
No way could I do that to any of the old Mausers. I've redone some old almost junk 98K's. All they need is the correct wood to return them to original configuration.

blume357@bellsouth.net
September 24, 2011, 10:41 AM
Collectors' value? from what I can tell there are a zillion out there from one source or another.... I saw the picture and thought the travesty was you too the scope off.

afponiky
September 24, 2011, 01:48 PM
Collectors' value? from what I can tell there are a zillion out there from one source or another.... I saw the picture and thought the travesty was you too the scope off.



^ +1

Mustang51
September 24, 2011, 02:20 PM
"Collectors' value? from what I can tell there are a zillion out there from one source or another.... I saw the picture and thought the travesty was you too the scope off."

Well, I'm not claiming that these are $10,000 collector pieces, but to a military surplus collector, these rifles are generally considered less valuable if they have been drilled and tapped. There were a half dozen other Persian Mausers at this auction. Mine was the only one that had been modified. The unmodified Persians went for around $500. I got mine for a bit more than half that.

I didn't remove the scope-it didn't come with one.

Mustang51
September 24, 2011, 03:06 PM
You should try to find an old steel tubed weaver to put on it. Or maybe an old redfield.

You guys read my mind..

BrocLuno
September 24, 2011, 03:46 PM
Naw, it's what we'd do. And old blue steel scope will really bring it all together :)

Cool thing is you can find a Weaver K4 or K6 with Micro-Trak (Gen II suspension) and Duplex retical for not too much. They are hell for strong with decent lenses and coatings :)

Get a leather lace on cheek pad and you have a great field gun that will get comments :)

harmon rabb
September 24, 2011, 05:28 PM
Not a travesty, in fact if it gets you to use the gun more than thats a GOOD thing. You damaged some collectors value but thats about it. If you want to see a travesty look what I did to a mosin m44

http://tacticaltupperware.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/dscn1184-300x225.jpg

Full Story here (http://tacticaltupperware.com/?p=244)
eh, it's a mosin. they made 40mil of them. don't need to feel too guilty about bubba'ing one :D

Mustang51
September 30, 2011, 06:55 PM
The Persian arrived today and is without question one of the finest condition Persian that I've seen...bluing is near perfect, a few dents in the stock, even the "straw" coloring on the screws is intact, bore is superb.

http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/001-2-2.jpg
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/002-2.jpg
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/003-1.jpg
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/004-1-1.jpg
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/persian-1.jpg
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/017-3-1.jpg

The scope base install and the bolt turn-down appear to be first rate. I'm certain that the bolt is the original because there there is a partial serial number in Farsi on the handle.

http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/009-2-1.jpg
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/007-3-1.jpg

BrocLuno
October 1, 2011, 06:12 PM
Very, very nice, now to finish the job. You don't suppose that was a Persian Sniper, do you? If so, what scope did they use? And, can you get one with Farsi lettering?

Since the blueing and all matches so well, it sure looks like it was all finished as a unit?

Mustang51
October 1, 2011, 07:58 PM
Very, very nice, now to finish the job. You don't suppose that was a Persian Sniper, do you? If so, what scope did they use? And, can you get one with Farsi lettering?


I don't think so. I can find no mention of a Persian sniper in Ball's Mauser Military Rifles of the World, which is the definitive work on Military Mauser rifles.

I'm certain that this is a well done civilian scope job. I hope it shoots as good as it looks.

Mustang51
October 1, 2011, 10:48 PM
If it shoots, it will be perfect for my purposes. It is just a shame that what must have been a pristine Persian Mauser was drilled and tapped, and as a consequence lost any of its collector's value.

In reality, a much less pristine example with a good bore would also have served my purpose.

bachekermooni
November 13, 2011, 02:38 AM
Watching that scope mount on such a perfect condition Persian Mauser brings tears to my eyes - sort of like that Crown Royal commercial :(

caribou
November 13, 2011, 06:31 AM
Persia scoped their own rifles with several types of commercial scopes purchased in europe.

I really like it!! Its a fine job, done by a craftsman, if it were an armory job, the bolt handle would have had the serial number restamped.

by the way.....
Roughly 17 million MosinNagants have been made ,if all nations who made them are counted. For the Russians alone, 2 world wars , a revolution and several small spats and giveaways reduced that number significantly.
If a fella has any foresite at all, he'd see what happend to the millions of Mausers, Enfeilds, and springfeilds went. My grandpa Frank, after WW2 ,bought 10 or so Springfield '03's for 20$ each, as well as a new "star" marked barrel and a wood blank for 20$ more and did his thing, makeing hisself a personal Hunting rifle. The other Springfeilds he had he sold for well over 600$ each.
I bought K98k's in the 80's for 50$-100$ and other than 3 excellent ones Ive kept, I have gotten at least 450$+ on each of the rest.
As well, in the late 80's and early 90's I was buying Mosins from Finnland for 20$ each (100$ for 5 in a wire bundle) to 50$ each for excellent specimins....M-27's and M-28's for 60$ get 350$ to 500$ today , depending on condition and markings (same as any military rifle)

M-44 referbs have gone from 60$ each to 200$ easy, in just 3 or so years.

You keep hacking them allrighty, your making mine worth more :D but for sure, it aint gonna be long before your 89$ M-91/30 with accessories in the box will be a 350$ "wish I had bought alot more" rifle.......~~LOL!!~~

sayak
November 13, 2011, 01:02 PM
Almost makes you want to cry? Good God man, it's a rifle not a person. Shoot it. Enjoy it. Someone already did the hard work for you.

sixgunner455
November 13, 2011, 01:33 PM
Nice job on a beautiful rifle, that you will enjoy shooting for the rest of your life.

Money well spent.

Caribou, I bought a decent M44 for $50.00 about ten years ago. I got $100.00 for it a few years later, and thought I'd done well. They aren't much more than that now, if you get them on sale. I got a K31 for $80.00 after I sold the M44. That K31 has really gone up in value, and I like it, to boot! :D Not selling it, either.

theotherwaldo
November 13, 2011, 02:53 PM
The perfect arrangement: you get the solid, shoot-able, scope-able rifle that you wanted, while Bubba gets all of the bad karma.

FMJMIKE
November 13, 2011, 06:06 PM
I think it is beautiful like it is !!! Enjoy it.............:D

Mustang51
November 15, 2011, 08:47 PM
Thanks guys.

I've yet to mount a scope on it, but will send pics and a range report when I do.

Steve

Germster
November 16, 2011, 02:02 PM
It would be fun to mount an Unertl scope on it. Something that matches the interesting look of the rifle. You can't undo the drilling and tapping and the mount is there, so put in the scope and enjoy the rifle.

It is probably a little heavy. Put on a nice sling and deal with the weight. It is not THAT heavy.

Mustang51
March 3, 2012, 12:01 AM
Finally mounted a scope and took it to the range.

http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/Target%20rifles/006-2.jpg
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/Target%20rifles/007-2.jpg

Put 5 "regular " Prvi rounds into a target at 50 yards
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/targets/004-1-6.jpg

And then put 7 "Match" Prvi rounds into a target at 100 yards
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/targets/001-2-2.jpg

First one went low, second one went high, then 5 in the middle.

I think that Reloading will help shrink the group, as will some kind of cheek rest. I had more of a "chin weld" than a "cheek weld"

Gtimothy
March 3, 2012, 09:46 AM
Wow, If it is sacrilege to mount a scope on an old surplus Mauser then I guess I'm just plain going to Hell for what I'm planning to do with my old Brazilian Mauser! I paid $65.00 at K-Mart for it, almost 20 years ago. When I got it home and cleaned all the grease out of it, I found the barrel was HEAVILY pitted. I don't trust it so I'm going to have it re barreled and put it into a synthetic stock. I also plan to have it drilled and tapped for a scope mount....OH NO!

CraigC
March 3, 2012, 11:36 AM
"Collectors' value? from what I can tell there are a zillion out there from one source or another.... I saw the picture and thought the travesty was you too the scope off."
I agree 100%! Some folks are more than a little silly about such things. It's a military surplus rifle, not Colt SAA serial number 1. They made millions of them, plenty enough for everyone who wants one to have one and do what they want with it.

Elkins45
March 3, 2012, 11:52 AM
I agree 100%! Some folks are more than a little silly about such things. It's a military surplus rifle, not Colt SAA serial number 1. They made millions of them, plenty enough for everyone who wants one to have one and do what they want with it.
My thought as well. I'll be sure to never let you see what's in the back of my gun safe because I'm afraid you'll have a seizure :) In my defense, one of my Bubba'd Mausers was bought as a bare action from CIA in the early 90's so its only value was as a shooter. The other was a rifle my Dad managed to acquire sometime before I was born. The stock had already been cut down and the bore was so badly pitted that it wouldn't extract a fired round without a hammer. It's currently wearing a 1967 israeli surplus .308 barrel and is functional again. I won't own a gun that won't shoot, unless it's one that has personal or family history.

Now that this gun has a scope mounted it appears to not have a working safety. I assume it a range gun only? My totally unsolicited advice is to invest the $20 in a low scope safety lever for your gun. It would be a shame if there was some sort of accident and you ended up on the legal hook for it because the safety can't be engaged with a scope installed.

That may be the best looking bore I've ever seen on a surplus rifle!

420Stainless
March 3, 2012, 12:47 PM
No travesty. If I could buy one like that for the price you did I would do so. I keep most of my guns as is from the factory, but I also like to buy them when they're in fine shape, still very utilitarian, and discounted for the modifications. I got good deals on a couple of colt double action revolvers that were slightly modified and they are my favorites.

Your's is a beauty.

Mustang51
March 3, 2012, 03:13 PM
Thanks, Stainless

Elkins45
My thought as well. I'll be sure to never let you see what's in the back of my gun safe because I'm afraid you'll have a seizure In my defense, one of my Bubba'd Mausers was bought as a bare action from CIA in the early 90's so its only value was as a shooter. The other was a rifle my Dad managed to acquire sometime before I was born. The stock had already been cut down and the bore was so badly pitted that it wouldn't extract a fired round without a hammer. It's currently wearing a 1967 israeli surplus .308 barrel and is functional again. I won't own a gun that won't shoot, unless it's one that has personal or family history.

Now that this gun has a scope mounted it appears to not have a working safety. I assume it a range gun only? My totally unsolicited advice is to invest the $20 in a low scope safety lever for your gun. It would be a shame if there was some sort of accident and you ended up on the legal hook for it because the safety can't be engaged with a scope installed.

That may be the best looking bore I've ever seen on a surplus rifle!

Well, I'm not saying these rifles are rare or expensive...but many of us feel they are collectible. With so many around that have been reblued, banged around, etc, it was a bit of a shame that the prior owner chose one that was so nice (considering it is 80 years old) and original to drill and tap.

On the other hand, because he did, I got a very nice rifle for much less than it would have cost in original condition. And it was exactly what I was looking for. :D

You make a good point about the safety. I'll get one of those timney or other low safeties and install it. Not sure how difficult that will be, but it needs to be done, for exactly the reason that you mentioned.

Thanks for the comments about the bore. I doubt this was fired much in its lifetime. Evrey once in a while I run across a military rifle that has a great bore, which always amazes me considering their age.

Recently I glommed a Rock Island M1903 that had a Sedgley barrel and a bore that is as nice as this one.

http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/03A3/001-3-2.jpg
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/03A3/010-1.jpghttp://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/03A3/011-1-1.jpghttp://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/03A3/012-4-1.jpg

tahoe2
March 4, 2012, 12:57 AM
Wow! That's too bad ! Now you will have to scope it and see how accurate that
beautiful Persian shoots. I know you will be tickled with, show us some targets when you shoot it !

Elkins45
March 4, 2012, 12:31 PM
I'll get one of those timney or other low safeties and install it. Not sure how difficult that will be

There's one version that requires you to cut a slot in the bolt shroud, but most versions are just drop in--or at least as "drop in" as a part can be for a gun that was made in so many variations in so many factories. You might need to do a bit of filing or stoning on the safety (or the cocking piece in the worst case) to get it to work. If you get lucky all you'll have to do is take the bolt apart and swap the parts. That's for the bolt mounted ones. If you install a new trigger with a safety then you'll have some stock inletting you'll need to do.

That 1903 has me drooling!

CraigC
March 4, 2012, 02:38 PM
...it was a bit of a shame that the prior owner chose one that was so nice (considering it is 80 years old) and original to drill and tap.
See, this is where I have to take issue with collectors. I tire of the attitude that "nice" guns should be collected. While we shooters should be relegated to the leftovers. Rest assured, if I ever get around to tastefully sporterizing an old milsurp rifle (Krag, Mauser or 1903), I will begin with the nicest example I can afford. I'll be sure and post pics for all the sensitive collectors to cry over the "travesty". :rolleyes:

Mustang51
March 4, 2012, 03:05 PM
I shoot all of the guns I collect. Your separation of "shooters" and "collectors" doesn't apply to me...I'm both. Perhaps you didn't notice the targets that I posted above.

Nor would I ever tell anyone what they should do with their own weapons...please feel free to buy a nice milsurp rifle, spent some money tastefully sporterizing it and ending up with a rifle worth half what you paid for it.

Believe me, just like my Persian Mauser, I'll be there to buy it if you tire of it.

I'll be sure and post pics for all the sensitive collectors to cry over the "travesty".

As for being "tired of the attitude"...you seem to be the only one around here with an attitude, Craig

valnar
March 4, 2012, 03:12 PM
That's a gorgeous "bubba'ed" Mauser. I'd be proud to own one just like it.

Let's face it, old Mauser actions are great, but modern glass is better. Best of both worlds.

CraigC
March 4, 2012, 03:30 PM
Nor would I ever tell anyone what they should do with their own weapons...please feel free to buy a nice milsurp rifle, spent some money tastefully sporterizing it and ending up with a rifle worth half what you paid for it.
Nobody builds a custom gun to save or make money. Rest assured, when completed, it will be worth a hell of a lot more than what I paid for it. The BS people repeat about the resale value of custom guns is just that. :rolleyes:

Mustang51
March 4, 2012, 03:48 PM
The BS people repeat about the resale value of custom guns is just that.

And this is based on ...what experience with "sporterized" milsurp rifles, exactly? You just got done telling us that you don't have any sporterized military rifles.

Take the Persian Mauser that is the subject of this post. Got it for $260, plus a 13% "buyer's premium". There were 5 other Persian Mausers at this auction, all of which were in original condition, and all of which went for much more. And that doesn't include all the gunsmithing that went into sporterizing this one.

Same with the Rock Island 1903. Paid about the same as for the Persian Mauser. Less than half what it would have been worth un-sported. And that doesn't include the gunsmithing and Redfield peep sights that were included.

Mustang51
March 4, 2012, 04:27 PM
That's a gorgeous "bubba'ed" Mauser. I'd be proud to own one just like it.

Let's face it, old Mauser actions are great, but modern glass is better. Best of both worlds.

Thanks, velnar.

What amazes me is that this thing is essentially as it left the factory 80-odd years ago, except for the glass and the bolt -turn down. It is like it was in some time capsule. The wood has a few dents and dings, but doesn't appear to have warped and the rifle is amazingly accurate. I think with some load development and a cheek rest, I can get this down to a true MOA.

My sons and I shoot them in several different matches...a "vintage military silhouette match" which involves shooting chicken, pig, turkey and ram silhouettes at ranges of 220 yards (chickens), 330 yards (pigs), 420 yds (turkeys) and rams (550) yards. Rifles are 50 year old "as issued" rifles, shot prone off a soft front rest (sand bag or backpack). Here's a picture of the silhouette range at my club:

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s194/Calfed/Targets/workpics013-1.jpg

We also shoot these same rifles in a " long range" vintage military match. This is a match shot at paper bullseye targets at 300, 500, 600, and 800 yards.

This match is shot at the 1000 yard range at the top of this satellite picture

http://mapq.st/uQUg0e

Both matches have an "open class" for scoped military rifles. I've been looking for a rifle for "open class" shooting and it looks like I found it.
:)

CmdrSlander
March 4, 2012, 04:34 PM
Travesty? Its an improvement! Well sporterized military rifles have an elegance and robustness all their own. Now, you must find an old, well figured walnut stock with a white line recoil pad to complete the package.

Mustang51
March 4, 2012, 04:41 PM
Now, you must find an old, well figured walnut stock with a white line recoil pad to complete the package.

LOL...Never! That would be a final indignity. Besides, this 80+ plus year old stock is too pretty to lose.

And you are right- military rifles do have a robustness all their own. Nice ones, like the Persian Mausers, were both robust and finally crafted. They are almost works of art.

Putting this baby in a sporter stock would be like...like... painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa ;)

Dean1818
March 4, 2012, 05:26 PM
I redid a yugo mauser 24/47 and added a redfield 3x9

I also bedded the action.

It now shoots a tiny bit over 1 MOA.


I dont view the yugo as collectable.

I wouldnt touch a war mauser.

Mustang51
March 4, 2012, 05:41 PM
I dont view the yugo as collectable.

I don't either. Although some do. I have an M48 Yugo that has the Iraqi Hashemite crest on it. I wouldn't sporter that one.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s194/Calfed/Iraqimauser.jpg
http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s194/Calfed/Iraqimauser2-1.jpg

I also have a Yugo 24/47 that someone had mounted a scope and a heavy .308 barrel on. I'm still sorting out some scope mounting issues, but it looks like it will be a real good shooter.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=647039

Hocka Louis
March 4, 2012, 08:24 PM
Nice actually -- glad you found it!
I want one 'cause I have a Persian Mauser bayonet...

tahoe2
March 4, 2012, 11:28 PM
this is my M24/47 that has the original action & barrel(60+ years), with a Timney trigger & low mnt safety,
Boyd's walnut stock, Leupold scope mnts & rings and a Pentax 6x42 fixed power scope. Rem 700 bolt handle.
It shoots 1-1/4" @ 100 & 3-1/2" @ 200, with my 180 or 200 grn handloads.
160450

Mustang51
March 6, 2012, 03:31 PM
Wow, T2...that is a nice looking, good shooting rifle.

tahoe2
March 13, 2012, 12:42 AM
thanx mustang, that is my designated elk rifle, I use a .280 Rem for deer & antelope, and a .375 winchester for bear.

If you enjoyed reading about "I know it is a travesty..." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!