IWB Revolver


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Skribs
September 24, 2011, 04:06 PM
I'm looking for a revolver to carry IWB, I'm thinking 3-4". I'm torn between a blued GP100 4" (I prefer the blued look to stainless, and would like the 6-shot), and a SP101 3" (which I could get with the spurless hammer).

Which would you recommend? If the hammer spur isn't an issue for IWB carry with a t-shirt, I'm definitely leaning towards the GP100.

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willypete
September 24, 2011, 05:11 PM
I'd get the SP101. Lots easier to carry IWB or OWB than the GP100. It's a lot lighter. I don't really think you're going to miss that sixth shot, and the smaller cylinder and lighter weight (3/4 of a pound!) are worth it, IMO.

Why are you interested in 3-4" guns? I appendix carry an SP101 with a 2.25" bbl almost every day, and it's sooo much nicer than carrying my 4" GP100. Just a thought.

meatballs
September 24, 2011, 07:22 PM
I agree with willypete. I have two GP100s and they are fantastic revolvers, but they are big and HEAVY. The SP101s are much lighter, and probably easier to conceal. I would get the SP for IWB carry. Good luck!

Skribs
September 24, 2011, 07:24 PM
So...anything on the spur question?

Remllez
September 24, 2011, 07:34 PM
It's more of personal preference on the trigger spur...if you shoot DAO it's not a problem, however for the occasional SA shot you may prefer the spur model. The difference in barrel length and weight would be the deciding factor for me. Many people carry spur model revolvers IWB every day.

sidheshooter
September 24, 2011, 07:56 PM
I can think of few finer CCW revolvers than a 3" sp101 with a bobbed hammer/DAO action and a bit of polishing internally.

YMMV.

willypete
September 24, 2011, 08:20 PM
Ah yes, the spur . . .

All of my guns have "normal" hammers, so I can't really give you a personal comparison. However, I have not found the hammer spur to be an issue on the draw, and it is nice to be able to cock and fire single-action when testing ammo for accuracy purposes. I'd say get one with the spur. JMO.

Warp
September 24, 2011, 10:11 PM
I'd get the SP101. Lots easier to carry IWB or OWB than the GP100. It's a lot lighter. I don't really think you're going to miss that sixth shot, and the smaller cylinder and lighter weight (3/4 of a pound!) are worth it, IMO.

Why are you interested in 3-4" guns? I appendix carry an SP101 with a 2.25" bbl almost every day, and it's sooo much nicer than carrying my 4" GP100. Just a thought.

The power of a full house .357 out of a heavy 4" barrel gun would seem to trump whatever you put in a 2.25" barrel. That is one reason to consider a GP100, I'd say. I haven't IWB carried either so I don't really know.

Skribs
September 24, 2011, 10:40 PM
The reason I'm looking in the 3"-4" range is because I want something to replace my XDm for warmer weather. I discovered with my Mom's SP101 how much less a revolver prints thanks to its curves. However, in that gun, the magnum rounds hurt my hand a bit, so I want something a bit heavier.

Weight on my belt isn't too big of an issue. I'm used to carrying a bunch of things in my pockets, anyway.

redraidermgr
September 24, 2011, 11:35 PM
I dont know if anyone mentioned it already or not but you may try looking for a used S&W model 19. The barrel on these guns are usually about 4" and it does have a hammer (no spurless option sorry). Used you can get them for around 300 or so depending on the quality of the blue left on the gun and overall condition. I own one and it is the best shooting stock revolver i have ever shot (and i have shot quite a few revolvers from Taurus, Smith, and Ruger). Around my property i can carry it IWB without a problem. The recoil is very manageable even with a fairly heavy Magnum round. They are a bit older and were designed for Highway patrol and other police agencies for carry weapons starting in the 50s and were made until the early 2000s. They are recommended for use with 38 specials for regular shooting and occasional Magnum loads (to practice with and to carry for SD).

If you look around in the revolver section of this forum you will find many threads that extol the quality of this gun and I am a firm believer. The accuracy and fit of this gun is exceptional.

That being said. I have shot a couple of Ruger revolvers and they are great guns that are well made and accurate. It really comes down to what you want. A used S&W in good shape or a New Ruger. If you have any questions about the S&W M19 just shoot me a PM or ask in the Revolver section about them.

Hope i helped and didn't aggravate you or anyone else by giving you another option.

Thanks Red.

BullfrogKen
September 24, 2011, 11:56 PM
What's wrong with carrying and shooting 38 Specials? They're pretty much identical in performance to a 9mm.

Warp
September 24, 2011, 11:59 PM
I can't speak for the OP, but if I was to carry something IWB "pretty much identical" to 9mm I would carry my G26 or G19 and get 11-16 rounds on board.

kynwatch
September 25, 2011, 12:13 AM
Go to the local range any weekday morning and you'll be surprised what revolvers you can carry IWB. No wonder some of those old guys limp!

Every time I read one of these threads I have to laugh.

***Warning grammar police! Sent from an android phone using Tapatalk.***

CTGunner
September 25, 2011, 12:21 AM
What Warp Said ^ This is why I stopped carry an SP101. 5 Shots vs. 11 with a G26 and you aren't giving up anything on reliability. The SP101 is really nice though and if you prefer a revolver, well then it's hard to beat.

Skribs
September 25, 2011, 12:21 AM
I can't speak for the OP, but if I was to carry something IWB "pretty much identical" to 9mm I would carry my G26 or G19 and get 11-16 rounds on board.

The whole purpose for me going for a revolver is to get rid of the square butt.

Warp
September 25, 2011, 12:28 AM
And you think a GP100 will conceal better than a Glock 26??

Have you carried a Glock 26?

Have you compared these two firearms side by side?

BullfrogKen
September 25, 2011, 12:44 AM
Capacity isn't everything.

I hate Glocks personally. They're so awfully thick.

oldfool
September 25, 2011, 01:47 AM
"I would carry my G26 or G19"
if you really want a Glock revolver, buy one (???)
hint = "I want something to replace my XDm for warmer weather"

GP is a tad large for IWB, yes
snubbies not a lot of fun with 357 mag full loads, and snubbie barrels do very little extra with magnum load powder
the SP101 is one that handles it better than most, especially in 3" barrel
"I discovered with my Mom's SP101...the magnum rounds hurt my hand a bit,
yes, but...
"What's wrong with carrying and shooting 38 Specials?"
not a thing, and 38+P suits 3" barrels real well, far better than 357s do

"The power of a full house .357 out of a heavy 4" barrel gun would seem to trump whatever you put in a 2.25" barrel."
YES, it does, but 'tis a tad large/heavy for IWB

"So...anything on the spur question?"
minor relevance, hammer spurs not friendly to IWB (under shirts), matters significantly less for OWB.. BUT it's really not that big a deal to take the "spur" off for DAO (any DA/SA revolver), as was noted above
"which I could get with the spurless hammer".. yes

PS
no offense intended WARP, but the OP asked 4" Ruger GP revolver vs 3" Ruger SP revolver, not Glock vs XDm

Skribs
September 25, 2011, 03:26 AM
Warp, it's what's out of my shorts that I'm having trouble concealing. My shorts are baggier than my t-shirt. So while my XDM fits just fine IWB, it prints like the News Tribune under a T-Shirt. The part that prints isn't the bottom of the grip, it's the butt of the slide.

So if I had a Glock with a shorter grip and shorter slide...the butt would still print. The revolver, on the other hand, has a nice curved butt that hides really well.

Plus, my revolver isn't replacing my XDM. It's replacing my LCP. For cooler weather, I'll gladly take my XDM. The way I see it, I can go out and buy a whole new wardrobe to carry my semi without printing, or I could buy a new toy and carry a full-size firearm with my current clothes. I'm more prone to buying new toys than new clothes.

Sam Cade
September 25, 2011, 03:46 AM
Which would you recommend? If the hammer spur isn't an issue for IWB carry with a t-shirt, I'm definitely leaning towards the GP100.

Its not a big deal to bob the hammer....

A 3" GP100 is pushing 40 oz empty though.

Lawdawg45
September 25, 2011, 09:42 AM
Pardon a comment from the "old school":D

For deep cover or IWB carry a 4 inch wouldn't be my first choice, and I'm hearing you need a larger frame to absorb the recoil of the .357. Might I suggest a S&W model 10, carried one for several years and loved it. It's a K frame 6 shot .38 which can be loaded with very hot ammo with the heavier frame, and the short barrel is unnoticeable in a good IWB holster such as the Crossbreed.;)

LD

kbbailey
September 25, 2011, 10:09 AM
I carry a SP101 in a Don Hume iwb. It is plenty large enough. I don't want the extra diameter of a full size six shooter.
As for the higher cap 9mm question, I already reload .357, cast bullets, keep powder, etc. so the .38/.357 was a no brainer for me.
My favorite handloads are accurate and far from 'full house', very manageable in a 2.25" sp101.

357 Terms
September 25, 2011, 10:21 AM
For me it's a 2.25 DAO sp101 appendix carry, in a thin leather IWB it completly dissapears and rides very comfortably, I do on occasion carry a 4in service six at the 4 o'clock position, not quite as concealable. The gp would be a little more bulky than the Six. I think that if you intend to carry your best bet would be to start small.

Warp
September 25, 2011, 01:08 PM
Warp, it's what's out of my shorts that I'm having trouble concealing. My shorts are baggier than my t-shirt. So while my XDM fits just fine IWB, it prints like the News Tribune under a T-Shirt. The part that prints isn't the bottom of the grip, it's the butt of the slide.

I don't know Springfield's lineup so you'll have to walk me through it (or just be specific and I'll look it up) but which model XDM are you referring to? What holster, belt, and carry location/cant/height?

I just want to make sure you aren't missing something that could give you more options. Even if you do indeed get a revolver to carry IWB it would still be nice if your XDM could also be concealed, right?

no offense intended WARP, but the OP asked 4" Ruger GP revolver vs 3" Ruger SP revolver, not Glock vs XDm

I don't believe I said anything that could be construed as Glock vs XDM. My post that involved carrying a Glock was a direct response to the comment about .38spl +P being pretty much the same as 9mm, and it stated what *I* would do, not necessarily what I thought the OP should do. ;)

Lucky Derby
September 25, 2011, 06:59 PM
I carry a 3" SP101 nearly every day. Either OWB or IWB while at work. I really don't like IWB with any gun, but required work attire limits my choices to IWB or pocket carry.

I also sometimes carry a 4" Colt Trooper .357, which is similar in size to the GP100, but slightly lighter. The SP101 is so much nicer to carry. Unless pocket carry, or perhaps appendix carry, is the order of the day, no reason to go shorter than 3". IWB or OWB it doesn't make much difference and there are advantages to that longer barrel.

As to the hammer spur, we are back to the pocket carry thing again. Thats the only time I've found it adventagous to not have a spur. It is really a non issue. That being said, The spur can be shaved off on the GP 100 as easily as the SP101, and you won't get a 3" SP101 without the spur from the factory.

ChasMack
September 25, 2011, 07:35 PM
I like to try to "use" my revolvers and carry either SP101 or S&W J-Frame around town...small town. If I go to the "big" city I carry my Glock 27...more rounds and is as just as concealable or more so than my SP101. I practice with both just so one does not feel so different. I use 158gr LSWCHP in my SP101...Gold Dot in my Glock

IBEWBULL
September 25, 2011, 08:18 PM
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=202787803114403&set=a.202769496449567.55485.202623946464122&type=1&theater
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.202769496449567.55485.202623946464122

https://www.facebook.com/WISCONSINUSACONCEALEDCARRYOPTIONS

First let me say Bianchi made the Lightning Grip which was designed to conceal the hammer of the round but K frame Smith. I have the grips but still no M 19 or 66 well someday.

I like my Glock 27 but also my SP 101 each has its advantages.
The SP 101 need to be deburred , mainly the hammer.

On the links above are some links to snub information for some great information.
As for the floppy IWB suede holsters practice and see if you like it. I ordered a Simply Rugged with loops for more options like OWB , IWB.
What feels good in your hand is comfortable to carry, hits good and will do the job is what counts.

If I felt 5 rounds were not enough then I would carry a back up.
Ever hear of a New York reload? Having two guns gives you the option to pass one to a friend. Tossing your spare magazine will do no good at all. :neener: That was supposed to be funny.

Skribs
September 25, 2011, 09:33 PM
Now what about the .327 models they have? Ammo doesn't seem to be *that* prevalent, but I think I'll be able to find at least some SD stuff.

Warp
September 25, 2011, 09:43 PM
Why would you pick .327 over .357?

Dollar An Hour
September 26, 2011, 05:44 AM
I think too many guys rush to remove the hammer spur and think DAO is the only way to go on the SP101. I like having the spur, and find it's not an issue for high OWB carry under a tucked out t-shirt or similar casual garment.

willypete
September 26, 2011, 09:38 AM
The power of a full house .357 out of a heavy 4" barrel gun would seem to trump whatever you put in a 2.25" barrel. That is one reason to consider a GP100, I'd say. I haven't IWB carried either so I don't really know.

Ah yes, the voice of inexperience. Since I primarily carry (and shoot, barring .22lr, of course) .357 magnum, I can tell you that there are factory loads that will do close enough from a 2.25" bbl vs a 4" bbl as doesn't matter. I carry Georgia Arms 158 gr Speer Gold Dots, and I've chrony'd them at 1150 from my 2.25" SP101 vs. 1250 from my 4" GP100. The 158 gr SJHP Remington's are pretty similar.

Also, if you haven't carried either gun, why are you trying to advise the OP on carrying either one? That's not helpful.

As far as the hammer issue goes for IWB carry, I carry my SP101 at my appendix. This is probably the worst location with regard to the hammer digging into my belly. Guess what: it's not an issue. I experience more discomfort from the rubber grips chafing my skin, and that's easily alleviated by wearing an undershirt. Same goes for the 4" GP100, except that the barrel typically pokes into my thigh, and the grips jab my ribs. Neither of these are an issue with the smaller SP101.

I carry the SP101 in one of these: http://www.elitesurvival.com/index.php?p=product&id=28

I think it's a size 9, but I've had it so long that the writing on the tag has faded. The holster material is still strong, though.

I can also carry the GP100 in that rig, if need be. However, I prefer the Simply Rugged Pancake with IWB straps. Well worth the cash!

I used to own a Glock 27. I carried it in an IWB rig similar to what I use for the SP101, as well as a Fobus holster. Didn't like it, so I sold it. Too thick and blocky, printed too much, and performance wasn't what it should have been from the 3.5" bbl.

Also, the GP100 is more concealable than the Glock 27 FOR ME. Fits my body better, whereas the Glock just wants it's sharp little edges to stick out all Teutonic-like and whatnot. The SP101 is waaaaay more concealable than the Glock 27 FOR ME, and more concealable than the GP100.

Just FYI, OP, from personal experience and experimentation.

Skribs
September 26, 2011, 12:48 PM
Why would you pick .327 over .357?

Same reason the army chose 5.56 over 7.62. Same reason the army chose 9mm over .45. If I can get 20% more capacity and reduced recoil while still having an effective stopper, I don't see the problem. From what I've read, the .327 does this.

Rexster
September 26, 2011, 01:17 PM
I fully agree that the trouble with concealing a "baby" Glock, and many other double-column striker-fired auto-pistols, is the rear end of the slide, plus the bulky width. I would rather conceal a SIG P229 DAK than a "baby" Glock, and yes, I do have experience with both. I seriously tried a G27 during the 2002-2004 period that I carried a G22 on duty. I soon went right back to my SP101, and bought a second SP101. I have been using a P229 as duty pistol, and for much concealed carry, since 2004. With a less-protruding, less squared-off slide, the SIG hides easier on my anatomy than a "baby" Glock.

Back to the subject at hand: Either a GP100 or an SP101 can be concealed IWB. Much depends upon one's anatomy, but some find a longer-barreled weapon to be more stable, and in my case, a 4" revolver will tend to bridge over a certain place where a snubbier weapon will poke me. During the latter half of the 1980s, I carried an S&W Model 58, which is a tad bigger in some dimensions than a GP100, IWB at the 0330-ish position, using a now-discontinued soft-sided adjustable Desantis leather rig, and later a nylon Eagle Industries IWB holster that is NOT the same as that company's later nylon rigs. Later, I toted a GP100 in the Eagle rig, and sometimes still do, though I generally prefer carrying big sixguns outside my britches these days, and it is more likely to be an S&W Model 19 in a Milt Sparks PMK holster when I tote a 4" sixgun.

Regarding the SP101, these little gems are my most-carried firearms these days, as back-up weapons at work, and concealed carry guns off the clock. I am up to three of them in the 2.25" length, two with spurless hammers and one with a spur, and a 3.06" length with a spurless hammer. To be clear, however, unless there has been a recent change, the
3.06" SP101 is only available with the spur. I bought a take-out spurless hammer through evil-bay years ago, when such parts were allowed to be listed, in anticipation of the day I would finally purchase a 3.06" SP101.

Rexster
September 26, 2011, 01:27 PM
Regarding the hammer spurs, SP101 spurs are really not very big, and using something like a knife-sharpening stone to dull the hammer's edges and knock the tops off the checkering, to taste, will probably make the spur innocuous enough, without a total bob-job. Of course, some folks want total DAO, which will mean either a hammer swap, or a trip to a 'smith that is familiar with DAO-ing the engagement surfaces.

BullfrogKen
September 26, 2011, 02:13 PM
However, I prefer the Simply Rugged Pancake with IWB straps. Well worth the cash!

I'd recommend anything over those el cheapo, nylon, clip-on holsters. That Simply Rugged is a good choice. Those cheapo clip-ons are even worse than if you'd simply put by itself it in pants pocket to carry it. My .02 cents anyway.

627PCFan
September 26, 2011, 02:54 PM
I laugh everytime I see someone say a 4 inch is too much for IWB. I carry a 5 inch Nframe IWB. Thats 44 oz empty. Get a good belt, and a good quality holster. Go with the GP.

Skribs
September 26, 2011, 03:58 PM
Got a good belt. Don't have a quality holster for any revolver (will get the holster at the same time as or after the revolver), but it's on my to-do list.

Jeb21
September 26, 2011, 04:43 PM
I have carried a GP 100 in a Cross breed holster. It works well. It is still a lot of weight for 6 shots. I think the SP101 is a bit more size efficient.

230therapy
September 26, 2011, 04:48 PM
I carry my S&W N Frames IWB. It works fine so long as your belt is a gun belt, the holster has forward cant, and your shirt is a bit baggy.

230therapy
September 26, 2011, 04:49 PM
I have carried a GP 100 in a Cross breed holster. It works well. It is still a lot of weight for 6 shots. I think the SP101 is a bit more size efficient.

You're carrying a revolver. It's guaranteed to be like that. If you want more efficient, carry a semi-automatic pistol. Phasers are not available yet.

Trebor
September 26, 2011, 04:57 PM
My carry gun for several years was a S&W Model 65 with a 3" barrel carried in an Alessi Talon IWB holster.

Here's a review of the holster I wrote earlier:

A review of the Alessi Talon IWB holster for concealed carry (http://www.examiner.com/firearms-in-detroit/a-review-of-the-alessi-talon-holster-for-iwb-concealed-carry)

I later switched to a Sig 239 in a Talon when I decided I wanted nine rounds of 9mm instead of six of .38.

Quoheleth
September 26, 2011, 05:01 PM
If you want to carry a revolver that disappears under your clothes and is a breeze to pack, skip the SP101 and go straight to the LCR. It's approximately 15 ounces (going from memory here) and has one of the smoothest small-frame triggers I've ever used. You can carry IWB, pocket, or OWB - any way you want.

If a Glock is too blocky for an autoloader, consider the Ruger SR9c - it's a very carryable and discreet 10-shot autoloader. The frame isn't as steep of an angle and doesn't tend to protude as much as Glocks. Had one and stupidly sold it to my brother-in-law a few weeks ago.

Q

Skribs
September 26, 2011, 05:16 PM
For various reasons, the only autoloaders I will go with are the DAO-type (including striker-fired) with no manual safety. Excluding pocket pistols, the only ones I would consider are glock, XD, or M&P.
I'm not saying anything against the other types, but I want all of my handguns to be of the pick up-point-shoot variety, and every pull of the trigger to feel the same.

This is why a DAO revolver (or even a DA/SA) seemed the best fit for me for something that I could carry a full-power handgun IWB under a t-shirt.

Keep in mind that I live in WA, so for 9 months of the year, I've got a hoodie on and I can easily conceal my XD and have 16 rounds instead of 6.

Super Sneaky Steve
September 26, 2011, 05:43 PM
Simply Rugged holsters are very thick. I don't think they make the best IWB option. Worn on the belt they are great.

I have an SP101 3" in .357 and I kinda wish I had tried out the .327 now. I fired some of my hot 125gr handloads filled up with H110 and it's painful. The powder actually shot out the rear of the cylinder with enough force to bloody my thumb. My light .38 hand loads were wonderful however. I may end up just carrying .38's after my last experience.

willypete
September 26, 2011, 11:05 PM
I'd recommend anything over those el cheapo, nylon, clip-on holsters. That Simply Rugged is a good choice. Those cheapo clip-ons are even worse than if you'd simply put by itself it in pants pocket to carry it. My .02 cents anyway.

The Elite isn't in the same league as those $5 or $10 holsters you see at the camo and beef jerky stands at gun shows. It's well made from durable materials. I've been carrying this gun, with this holster, nearly every day for several years.

Simply Rugged holsters are very thick. I don't think they make the best IWB option. Worn on the belt they are great.

I have an SP101 3" in .357 and I kinda wish I had tried out the .327 now. I fired some of my hot 125gr handloads filled up with H110 and it's painful. The powder actually shot out the rear of the cylinder with enough force to bloody my thumb. My light .38 hand loads were wonderful however. I may end up just carrying .38's after my last experience.

Initially, my Simply Rugged Pancake was actually painful to wear because it was so thick and would not form to my body. It took about two or three weeks of wearing it around the house without a gun for it to break in. I know a guy who used a ratchet strap to form his holster to himself. :D

Try shooting heavier bullets from short barreled .357s. The 125s are ok out of longer guns, but you really need a heavy (158 gr+) bullet to take advantage of slower burning powders, IMO.

BullfrogKen
September 27, 2011, 01:15 AM
The Elite isn't in the same league as those $5 or $10 holsters you see at the camo and beef jerky stands at gun shows. It's well made from durable materials. I've been carrying this gun, with this holster, nearly every day for several years.

Sorry willy, I don't care if you spent $50.00 on it and watched an Amish woman hand-sew it from a panel of level III Kevlar right in front of you. That holster fails on nearly every count for what a holster is intended for.



http://www.elitesurvival.com/images/products/secondary/bch_holster--1.jpg




Holsters serve several purposes, the chief among them is to keep the gun secure and accessible.

That holster, and almost every other one like it, fails to do that. The gun will shift, move, and not be in the same place as when you put it on in the morning when you reach for it, right at the time when you need it most, later that day.

I've seen those holsters show up in classes, and with new guys at IDPA matches. They are horrible. During the course of a match, and especially during the course of a 2 day shooting class, a competitor/student will invariably draw the gun and the holster draws out along with it at some point during the day.

Most instructors I know won't allow them in a class. And we'll generally allow a new shooter to show up to an IDPA match with one, so as not to turn him away unhappy. But afterwards he's told to go buy something secure and not bring it to the next one.

phunk
September 27, 2011, 11:14 AM
I would also suggest the LCR over the 101. It is super light, and thinner. I carry an LCR in a leather IWB bianchi almost daily loaded with +p Gold Dots. I carry this in the waist band of my gym shorts under a teeshirt and do not print at all. I carry a speed strip in my pocket. If there is a threat I cant stop with 10 rounds, or the first five for that matter then things have gone terribly wrong anyway.

sixgunner455
September 27, 2011, 02:15 PM
That 3" SP101 would be a great choice. So would a 3" K Frame S&W. If the Magnums hurt to shoot, put some .38 Specials in it and be happy!

Mick_W
September 27, 2011, 02:30 PM
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z1/mikku00/100_0744.jpg

I carry a sp101 in a don humes iwb holster with a hogue grip on it recoil is a lot softer and more comfortable.

230therapy
September 28, 2011, 01:20 PM
158 gr Speer Gold Dots, and I've chrony'd them at 1150 from my 2.25" SP101

This makes them slightly heavier Speer Gold Dot 9x19mm. My guess is that the difference in terminal ballistics between 124 grain 9x19mm Gold Dot (.355" diameter per Speer #13) and 158 grain 357 Magnum Gold Dot (.357" diameter per Speer #13) is not significant.

Does anyone have any analysis on this?

Additionally, are there hotter loads for the shorter barrels? It would be great if the velocity could be pushed to 1300 fps.

230therapy
September 28, 2011, 01:25 PM
RE: Clip holster

Is there any way to reverse the clip? Put the tab up...and it will never come off unless you unbuckle the belt and work it off.

Also keep in mind that the metal clip will mess up the finish of the belt.

Warp
September 28, 2011, 04:21 PM
Ah yes, the voice of inexperience. Since I primarily carry (and shoot, barring .22lr, of course) .357 magnum, I can tell you that there are factory loads that will do close enough from a 2.25" bbl vs a 4" bbl as doesn't matter. I carry Georgia Arms 158 gr Speer Gold Dots, and I've chrony'd them at 1150 from my 2.25" SP101 vs. 1250 from my 4" GP100. The 158 gr SJHP Remington's are pretty similar.

Also, if you haven't carried either gun, why are you trying to advise the OP on carrying either one? That's not helpful.

As far as the hammer issue goes for IWB carry, I carry my SP101 at my appendix. This is probably the worst location with regard to the hammer digging into my belly. Guess what: it's not an issue. I experience more discomfort from the rubber grips chafing my skin, and that's easily alleviated by wearing an undershirt. Same goes for the 4" GP100, except that the barrel typically pokes into my thigh, and the grips jab my ribs. Neither of these are an issue with the smaller SP101.

I carry the SP101 in one of these: http://www.elitesurvival.com/index.php?p=product&id=28

I think it's a size 9, but I've had it so long that the writing on the tag has faded. The holster material is still strong, though.

I can also carry the GP100 in that rig, if need be. However, I prefer the Simply Rugged Pancake with IWB straps. Well worth the cash!

I used to own a Glock 27. I carried it in an IWB rig similar to what I use for the SP101, as well as a Fobus holster. Didn't like it, so I sold it. Too thick and blocky, printed too much, and performance wasn't what it should have been from the 3.5" bbl.

Also, the GP100 is more concealable than the Glock 27 FOR ME. Fits my body better, whereas the Glock just wants it's sharp little edges to stick out all Teutonic-like and whatnot. The SP101 is waaaaay more concealable than the Glock 27 FOR ME, and more concealable than the GP100.

Just FYI, OP, from personal experience and experimentation.

...so, more power from the 4" barrel than the 2.25". That may be a good reason to carry a longer barrel.

The GP100 being more concealable for you than a G27 is something I cannot wrap my head around. I hope to try for myself (GP100 vs G26) but the IWB holster I have on order is a Milt Sparks so, uh, maybe in 7 months I'll know.

willypete
September 29, 2011, 02:42 AM
Sorry willy, I don't care if you spent $50.00 on it and watched an Amish woman hand-sew it from a panel of level III Kevlar right in front of you. That holster fails on nearly every count for what a holster is intended for.

Holsters serve several purposes, the chief among them is to keep the gun secure and accessible.

That holster, and almost every other one like it, fails to do that. The gun will shift, move, and not be in the same place as when you put it on in the morning when you reach for it, right at the time when you need it most, later that day.

I've seen those holsters show up in classes, and with new guys at IDPA matches. They are horrible. During the course of a match, and especially during the course of a 2 day shooting class, a competitor/student will invariably draw the gun and the holster draws out along with it at some point during the day.

Most instructors I know won't allow them in a class. And we'll generally allow a new shooter to show up to an IDPA match with one, so as not to turn him away unhappy. But afterwards he's told to go buy something secure and not bring it to the next one.

Have you ever carried an SP101 appendix style with the holster I mentioned?

David E
September 29, 2011, 11:40 AM
A belt holster, IWB or OWB, should be stable, maintaining its position AND orientation all day without the wearer adjusting it. The clip holster shown won't.

A belt holster should allow a full firing grip while the gun is still in the holster. The clip holster shown does not.

A belt holster should allow smooth one handed reholstering. The clip holster shown will not.

There are other requirements of a good holster, but these are good ones to start with. If an SP-101 is used in such a rig, you might be able to acquire the firing grip, but the holster still fails the other two requirements.

It doesn't matter if Dad used it or one just like it, if it has 18K gold stitching, or uses pterodactyl wing membrane to form the gun pouch.

The only thing that counts is performance. It may be comfortable to carry, but that matters little if it won't allow the user to access and draw the gun quickly and reliably under stress.

BullfrogKen
September 29, 2011, 04:14 PM
Have you ever carried an SP101 appendix style with the holster I mentioned?

In my lifetime I've been fortunate to see nearly every holster design come through my club. I've not seen a single, solitary holster that uses a clip designed like that one right there that wasn't worse than worthless when I or the shooter tried to use it on the range.

Now, I have seen some secure clip designs that have a very distinct, well-designed lip that comes out and back up on itself. It actually hooks under the belt and catches it from beneath. That solves the problem of drawing the holster out with the gun.

It's still a floppy, unsecure design.


Use it if you want. But don't expect to show up in a class or attend an IDPA match with one. We're nice here at our matches, and let new shooters run through their first time out if it's all they have. But they are told to come back with something else next match.

fastbolt
September 29, 2011, 04:51 PM
I used to carry an issued 4" M66 and then later a 4" M686 off-duty in IWB holsters. Ditto some various Ruger Security/Service/Speed-Sixes I owned and used as off-duty weapons.

That became tiresome after several years.

I switched over to carrying either an older (.38 Spl) M649 Bodyguard and a SP101 DAO 2.25" IWB, and it was a marked improvement in comfort by the end of a long day. Even though I used good quality holsters, all of the medium, full-size revolvers required more than a T-shirt in order to realistically conceal them during my normal activities, motions and exertions.

Sure, you could drape a loose, baggy T-shirt "just right" to make it seem to cover a revolver grip while standing straight and still in front of a mirror, but things changed once you started moving around, the shirts got sweaty and breezes blew through. I've seen my fair share of cops who thought they were adequately concealing smallish off-duty weapons under a T-shirt when using a "tuckable" holster or some other type, but I never had a problem seeing their weapons print.

Bear in mind that the rubber/synthetic grip stocks of revolvers can grab at concealment garments, pulling it this way & that at inopportune moments, potentially compromising concealment.

When carrying medium & large frame revolvers I just about always had to "dress around" the weapons, regardless of the holster design (although IWB holsters could sometimes mean the difference in being able to wear a short-waisted jacket).

I also used to look for security and retention in the holsters, too. Concealment is moot if the holster won't safely secure the revolver, and remain in the necessary position on the belt. Presentation & reholstering were (and are) important considerations, too, regarding both accessibility and safety.

Belt clip holsters? Tried a bunch of them over the years. Never found one that served as well as a belt loop holster. Not the sort of compromise I found acceptable as time passed.

There's been some improvement in bullet design in the major revolver calibers over the years since revolvers were "king" in the LE field, and I'd be less inclined to worry about velocity if one of the better designed JHP's, designed to offer good ballistic performance within realistic velocity windows, were being used nowadays.

I still have a couple of medium-framed .357 Magnum revolvers, but I seldom carry them anymore. They get some range use, but remain in the safe most of the time. Instead, my assortment of 5-shot J's see the brunt of the duty as revolvers carried as retirement weapons. Even my SP101 DAO sees more range use than carry use (the weight being the reason).

If I were going to carry a .357 Magnum revolver as a belt gun again, though, it would most likely be a 3" SP101. Nice balance of power, weight and a more compact size. Maybe a pristine M65 3" if I could come across one someday ... or ever talk a close friend out of one he built back at the factory back when you built a revolver during a revolver armorer class and got to buy it. ;)

Just my thoughts.

Luck to you in your decision ...

igousigloo
September 29, 2011, 11:18 PM
I was carrying a Kimber ultra carry II and decided to try a Ruger SP101 3". It was a lot heavier. I tried a Taurus 905 and that was much better. I think Kimber in winter and Taurus in summer. I use a Blackhawk IWB with two belt loops on it. It stays in place when I draw.

willypete
September 30, 2011, 06:32 AM
A belt holster, IWB or OWB, should be stable, maintaining its position AND orientation all day without the wearer adjusting it. The clip holster shown won't.

Yes, it will.

A belt holster should allow a full firing grip while the gun is still in the holster. The clip holster shown does not.

Yes, it does.

A belt holster should allow smooth one handed reholstering. The clip holster shown will not.

I disagree with you on this point. It adds unnecessary requirements (and thickness) to a holster, and really serves no purpose. I prefer using two hands to re-holster, because the second hand allows you to feel any protuberances that may contact the trigger or other controls of the handgun.

There are other requirements of a good holster, but these are good ones to start with. If an SP-101 is used in such a rig, you might be able to acquire the firing grip, but the holster still fails the other two requirements.

Again, no, it doesn't.

It doesn't matter if Dad used it or one just like it, if it has 18K gold stitching, or uses pterodactyl wing membrane to form the gun pouch.

You're sarcasm is about as pertinent as your absolute statements, and as indicative of your attitude.

The only thing that counts is performance. It may be comfortable to carry, but that matters little if it won't allow the user to access and draw the gun quickly and reliably under stress.

Agreed! However, I'm fairly comfortable assuming that you've never carried an SP101 in that particular holster model, and may only be familiar with cheaper "gun show specials." I attempt (and fail, at times) to limit my commentary to items that I've used and tested, because conjecture can be use than worthless when one tries to gives one's opinion on an item that one has never used or become proficient with.

In my lifetime I've been fortunate to see nearly every holster design come through my club. I've not seen a single, solitary holster that uses a clip designed like that one right there that wasn't worse than worthless when I or the shooter tried to use it on the range.

Like, but not the actual holster? That's similar to saying iron pyrite is "like" gold, or that a child's cap gun is "like" a real gun.

Now, I have seen some secure clip designs that have a very distinct, well-designed lip that comes out and back up on itself. It actually hooks under the belt and catches it from beneath. That solves the problem of drawing the holster out with the gun.

It's still a floppy, unsecure design.

No, it surely isn't. Again, I've used this holster, and I can tell you from personal experience that it's a solid, useful design. I encourage you to look more closely at the pictures, and you'll notice that the clip does hook over the belt and prevent movement. I can also tell you that the clip is strong enough to be painful if you insert your finger under it.

Use it if you want. But don't expect to show up in a class or attend an IDPA match with one. We're nice here at our matches, and let new shooters run through their first time out if it's all they have. But they are told to come back with something else next match.

Quite frankly, you could have just answered my question with "Yes," or "No." "No" seems to be what your answer should have been, and I understand your antipathy toward a design that you've never used and don't trust. However, what I don't understand is your inability to read and understand statements of someone who has actually used the equipment combination mentioned, and is experienced with it.

This combination works, is safe, and is stable and reliable. That's really all that matters.

Sam1911
September 30, 2011, 09:15 AM
I prefer using two hands to re-holster, because the second hand allows you to feel any protuberances that may contact the trigger or other controls of the handgun.

Just a quick comment on this one point:

That's a big no-no. I see it frequently and spend serious time with each new shooter who's falling into this trap. (Technique?)

There are pretty well-established "best practices" for drawing and holstering a sidearm, even especially a concealed one. If the support hand is used at all it would be to lift pull-over type cover garments (sweaters, sweatshirts, etc.) that must come up to clear the holster, and then the support hand is above the firearm and flat against the body, out of the way.

When the holster is soft and collapses it causes one of two things to happen.
1) The shooter gets his support hand involved in opening it back up to nose the muzzle back into the holster mouth. This, rather obviously, means that the support hand is in front of the muzzle of a loaded firearm. That's a disqualification if I catch it during a match or range session -- and a DQ is the LEAST worrisome negative result of that mistake.

(I see this often with the old "thumb-break" style retention holsters as well -- though there are easy techniques to use those appropriately so your support hand stays correctly out of the picture.)

2) The shooter realizes that he should keep his support hand away from the business end of a 'hot' weapon, so instead uses the muzzle as a pry-bar or shovel to try to dig into the holster mouth and wedge it open. This generally involves a sort of circular prying motion that inevitably has the shooter "sweeping" nearly half his body, from his foot up to his pelvis (:what:) as he tries to shoe-horn the gun back into his collapsed holster.

Again, that's a HALT to the day's shooting activities and an invitation to go home and re-think safety procedures. :scrutiny:

I've known several shooters who made one mistake or another and ended up allowing their sidearm to fire while they were attempting to re-holster. If they'd been "muzzling" their gun back into a collapsed nylon holster, they would have almost certainly died instead of receiving relatively minor injuries attendant to firing the gun straight down through the holster.

As for using the support hand to feel around for obstacles -- again, WHAT? Keep your flippin' hand out of the way! If you're gripping the gun so that your trigger finger is straight and along the frame just above the trigger, you will feel all you need to feel without endangering yourself.

I won't tell you what holster to buy (well, I will, but not here ;)) but I will tell you that no matter what your background and how many years you have of successfully skirting disaster -- needing two hands to re-holster a handgun is a problem you need to fix.

No matter what we know, or think we know, we all still have important things to learn.

460Kodiak
September 30, 2011, 10:53 AM
I carry a 3" SP101, with a hammer spur, IWB at 4 o'clock in a Galco holster. It conceals fine under a fleece or sweatshirt. I imagine it would under a tshirt as well. In a proper holster, the hammer spur shouldn't be an issue. The grip is the major concealment problem when carrying IWB. A GP100 has a much larger grip than a SP101 and would be harder to conceal. In summer I choose to pocket carry a different gun since I tuck my shirts in and the SP with a 3" bbl is a bit hard to pocket carry, unless you are buying pants with realy deep pockets.

aHFo3
September 30, 2011, 11:30 AM
I've been carrying a dao sp101 for a month or so in a Crossbreed Supertuck while typically wearing shorts and a t-shirt. The holster design puts leather between you and in my case, where the spur isn't, but an sp101 with a spur wouldn't dig into me, but it may print occasionally. Since you're wanting this for cold weather carry I'd upsize to the gp100 and use something like what Crossbreed offers. Good luck.

Lucky Derby
September 30, 2011, 11:31 AM
For the most part I am going to stay out of this holster debate, except to say: DO NOT USE TWO HANDS TO REHOLSTER YOUR FIREARM! This is an extremely unsafe practice.

Skribs
September 30, 2011, 12:05 PM
aFHo, I'm wanting it for warm weather carry, not cold weather.

When I have my hoodie on, my XDm conceals just fine.

Warp
September 30, 2011, 02:31 PM
When the holster is soft and collapses it causes one of two things to happen.
1) The shooter gets his support hand involved in opening it back up to nose the muzzle back into the holster mouth. This, rather obviously, means that the support hand is in front of the muzzle of a loaded firearm. That's a disqualification if I catch it during a match or range session -- and a DQ is the LEAST worrisome negative result of that mistake.


Can you tell me how to reholster my pistol into an IWB concealment holster without having the muzzle point at my leg while doing so?

Sam1911
September 30, 2011, 02:42 PM
Can you tell me how to reholster my pistol into an IWB concealment holster without having the muzzle point at my leg while doing so?


Straight up to draw, straight down/in to holster. There may be some very minor covering of your fleshy bits as you holster, but you should minimize that always.

An errant shot through the holster will almost certainly cause damage, but shouldn't be fatal.

Some of these guys digging the muzzle in to open up a collapsed holster are getting the gun nearly one a 45 deg. angle (or worse!) and sweeping their pelvis, femur/femoral artery, knee, and other critical parts.

Remember, safety is a layered process -- finger off trigger AND don't put anything in front of that muzzle you can't afford to have liquefied.

That's a big part of why a good IWB holster -- a safe holster -- needs to be a rigid design that will allow you to reinsert the gun without digging around with that muzzle. When you draw the gun, the mouth of that holster should look just like it does when the gun is still in it.

willypete
September 30, 2011, 02:48 PM
Sam1911: we're discussing IWB carry. By its nature, there will be garments covering the holster. The method of IWB carry I was mentioning was appendix carry, which I've found almost always ends up with a gun either pointing at my groin or my leg while carried, inserted, and drawn. Also, if one makes a "C" shape with the fingers and thumb of the left hand and cups these around the top of the holster while inserting the gun from the opening of the "C", one will avoid sweeping one's fingers with the muzzle of the gun.

Sam1911
September 30, 2011, 02:52 PM
The correct procedure for reholstering a sidearm in an IWB holster is no different if the gun is carried at 1-2 o'clock (appendix) or in the more traditional 4-5 o'clock position.

Well...actually, I'd say the issue of digging around with the muzzle to shoehorn the gun back into a collapsed holster is actually WORSE with appendix carry, but dead is dead, so I'm not sure how much worse it's likely to be.

willypete
September 30, 2011, 02:56 PM
I'll say it again: carrying appendix style will almost always result in a muzzle being pointed at a body part. Arguing about method of insertion, holster construction, or holster rigidity is irrelevant. I'm not sure who you've witnessed re-holstering a pistol to IWB appendix, but I don't have to "dig around with the muzzle to shoehorn the gun back in". It's a very simple operation of pinning the shirt up with the off-hand forearm, opening the holster lips with the thumb and forefinger, and inserting the gun from the side, and pushing down.

Sam1911
September 30, 2011, 03:08 PM
How the gun rides when secured in the holster and how the gun is oriented while drawing or re-holstering are usually two different things. The most dangerous time is not when you're sitting in your car or a restaurant booth and the gun's muzzle is resting on your leg, but when your hand is on the gun and you're manipulating it. That's when accidents occur (and have occurred to friends of mine, who are Expert-class shooters who absolutely did "know better"). When you're re-holstering is a critical moment with potentially tragic results. The greatest possible care should be exercised and any equipment selection that helps you avoid a less-favorable, more risky method of operation is wisdom itself.

I have not observed you doing this. I have observed a great many others. I was aware when I first posted that I might not change your mind about the wisdom of this or that there are better practices which avoid the pitfalls you dance with. As is often the case, however, I present information which I hope will help others who are reading or will read this thread in the future to make the best choice they can.

I do hope you are eternally careful and remain safe.

aHFo3
September 30, 2011, 03:34 PM
Skribs, sorry I got it backwards. I carry my spurless sp101 in a Crossbreed Supertuck at about 4 o'clock. The holster is adjustable for height. I have mine riding low, and if the gun had the spur it be at the level of my waist band which may snag.

I prefer DAO for carry revolvers because I'm not going to take the time for SA shooting when the time comes to defend myself. In my carry guns I train DA, I test ammo Da, so I have no use for the single action option.

I don't know if I could pull off summer carry with a gp100. Also, like you I prefer blued guns, but I really like how the ss gun holds up to my sweaty onslaught.

David E
September 30, 2011, 03:57 PM
Having some 35 years of gun and holster experience, the last 23+ being on a daily basis, you experience, observe and learn things.

Willy, Clip-on, collapse-on-the-draw holsters suck. Maybe yours sucks less, but suck it still does.

There are much better holsters out there, maybe you'll discover that one day.

Here's hoping!

BullfrogKen
September 30, 2011, 04:11 PM
Willy, I'll end the debate over your holster now.


You're special. Your holster is special. If it were anyone else, it would simply be just another sucky, poorly designed holster. But you've got gold there. Enjoy it.

willypete
October 1, 2011, 04:17 AM
Sam: thank you. I hope everyone remains safe, as well.

David E: I have a few holsters that are molded leather or kydex, don't suck, don't collapse on the draw, and cost a few dollars less than that nylon holster, or a few hundred dollars more. I'm not advocating nylon holsters as the end-all, be-all, but if you get a quality one, it's not going to suck.

BullfrogKen: Thanks! The nylon actually is gold plated, and the spring clip is studded with crystallized unobtanium and made of forged barsoomium. However did you know?

David E
October 1, 2011, 12:48 PM
"Quality IWB nylon holster?"

There's an oxymoron if there ever was one!!

Skribs
October 1, 2011, 02:42 PM
Well I didn't see any quality holsters at the store that fit my new gun, so I bought a $15 nylon one to hold me over.

I'll be carrying it in my pocket or mexican-style until I get my new holster (getting one like the one I have for my XDm). It's not worth the drive down to return the one I bought.

Oh, should have mentioned - got the 3" SP101. I'm keeping the original grips on it for now, the only ones I would change it to would be if I could find something like what's on the S&W carry guns (kind of like the hogue grip for the SP, but not as thick). I'm keeping the hammer spur for now, mainly because I'm too lazy to get it removed.

dallascj
October 1, 2011, 05:01 PM
I agree on the SP101 as a great choice for IWB over the GP100. The bigger revolver's grip is also harder to conceal. If the factory SP grip hurts your hand then I can recommend the Hogue Monogrip. Also, most of my revolvers have spurs and I don't find them to be an issue.

aHFo3
October 2, 2011, 12:13 AM
My SP101 originally had the hammer spur and after a couple weeks of searching I found a guy on rugerforum.net who wanted to swap his DAO hammer for mine. We made the swap, called eachother a sucker and were both happy.

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