Switched from jacketed to cast in .357 and loads produced MUCH more smoke and soot?


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duck911
September 24, 2011, 08:29 PM
Hi all,

I've shot 2400 under 158 grain XTP's with great results.

I just ran 100 rounds of Missouri Bullet Co cast bullets through the same gun using the same load.

I felt like I was smoking everyone out of the indoor range. And the gun is dirtier than it usually is after some shooting, with minor leading in the barrel.

Anyone have any ideas what could have been the cause?

I was thinking perhaps my charge was too light, causing gasses to escape around/ahead of the bullet, causing both the leading and smoke from the lube that the gasses burned?

Any other theories?

thanks!

--Duck911

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duck911
September 24, 2011, 08:37 PM
Well, I just tried a few different search terms in the search engine and see that my smoking cast bullet loads are not unusual at all. It's the lube.....

Dirty can sometimes be the trade off for cheap, I guess...

--Duck911

USSR
September 24, 2011, 09:14 PM
Yep, lube going up in smoke beats the heck out of money going up in smoke.:)

Don

armoredman
September 24, 2011, 09:43 PM
I shoot cast outdoors. :) It's worth it, and I love casting my own, too.

redneck2
September 24, 2011, 09:57 PM
If you use the blue "crayola" lube, it tends to smoke more than the clear IMO.

Also, as you noted, light loads smoke more than heavy loads. You might check your load data with cast vs. jacketed.

Hondo 60
September 24, 2011, 10:27 PM
I've shot Black Powder cartridges that smoked less than some "smokeless" ones that were cast.

It can get pretty bad sometimes.

warnerwh
September 25, 2011, 06:10 AM
I switched back to jacketed because after about a box and a half fired in my .357 the cylinder would be difficult to turn. At first I didn't realize it was the bullets and thought it was my gun. I am happy to pay a little more for jacketed, about 1.50 per box more. I sold my hard cast bullets.

GP100man
September 25, 2011, 11:10 PM
Lubes that are beeswax & petroleum products such as alox ,vaseline ,lithium grease will smoke noticeably ,especially indoors !

If ya care to cast & lube your own I can atest to White Label Lubes carnauba red being 1 that smokes the least of the many I`ve used in the past !

I have some alox that`s mixed with 45%alox 45% mineral sprits & 10% johnsons paste wax that I lube wadcutters with tumble style & it seems to give lower levels of smoke.

Alot of variables in place here so YMMV.

35 Whelen
September 25, 2011, 11:52 PM
The smoke is most definitelty lube.

I switched back to jacketed because after about a box and a half fired in my .357 the cylinder would be difficult to turn. At first I didn't realize it was the bullets and thought it was my gun. I am happy to pay a little more for jacketed, about 1.50 per box more. I sold my hard cast bullets.

So you switched back to jacketed because you didn't want to crimp the lead bullets?

I don't what brand you buy, but .358" 158 gr. SWC's are $33 per 500, where a jacketed bullet of the same weight will run $15+/- for 100 or $75 or so for 500. That makes lead bullets about half the price of jacketed.

35W

evan price
September 26, 2011, 05:40 AM
Whelen, I think he's saying he had so much soot built up he had cylinder gap problems, not that he had bullets pushing out from weak crimp.

warnerwh
September 26, 2011, 05:48 AM
35 Whelen: I was paying 65.00 a thousand shipped for hard cast. I get 1,000 JHP's for 100.00 shipped. To me it isn't worth the savings. All that toxic smoke blowing back in my face just isn't fun nor healthy. Btw I crimp all my revolver bullets which is 98% of my shooting.

mdi
September 26, 2011, 12:30 PM
If cast bullet lube binds up your cylinder, Sum Ding Wong! I shoot only cast bullets in my Ruger SBH, S&W 629, Dan Wesson 44H, Puma .44 Mag., and Contender 10" bbl., Taurus M85 2", taurus M686 6" .357, Ruger P90, and RIA M1911. With a proper cylinder throat fit and deceint lube, my revolvers will shoot more than 3 or 4 boxes before getting gummed up (at least that many because 3 boxes of .44 Magnums is enough for me!). Perhaps it's bullets too small diameter and blowing lead and lube out onto the face of the cylinder or too hard Crayola lube...

tx_pistolero
September 26, 2011, 04:26 PM
I'm not sure that smoke generated by lube is particularly toxic....no you could make case for lead particles....

gamestalker
September 27, 2011, 01:31 AM
Yep, I haven't put any lead through my collection in many years, like around 30 yrs. With the cost of jacketed being so reasonable, I just can't justify leaving the range with myself and gun covered in lead and soot.

35 Whelen
September 27, 2011, 01:42 AM
Yep, I haven't put any lead through my collection in many years, like around 30 yrs. With the cost of jacketed being so reasonable, I just can't justify leaving the range with myself and gun covered in lead and soot.

Define "reasonable", please. And how on earth does you and your gun get coevered with lead and soot from shooting lead bullets? I shoot several thousand lead bullets a year and not once have me or any part of my firearm (with the exception of the inside of the barrel) been covered in lead and/or soot. Could you please elaborate?

35W

USSR
September 27, 2011, 07:48 AM
Yeah, I'm not following this "covered in lead and soot" thing either.:confused:

Don

CraigC
September 27, 2011, 07:58 AM
Yep, lube going up in smoke beats the heck out of money going up in smoke.
Ain't that the truth!

I'm not getting the "covered in lead and soot" complaint either.

gamestalker
September 27, 2011, 06:00 PM
Lead is a wonderful bullet and load combination for those who like it, I just happen to one of those who doesn't. To me it's dirty, and doesn't allow me the opportunity to get full house performance without having to be concerned about heavy leading and worse.

Some won't buy anything but Jap cars, while others prefer American made. I think I made my point, so further comment on this topic would be rediculous!

joed
September 27, 2011, 07:02 PM
The first time I tried bulk cast bullets people were asking me if I was shooting BP. Turned me off with all the smoke and dirt.

The next cast bullets I tried were hard cast from Leadheads. Not much smoke at all and I've stayed with cast bullets. The smoke is a product of the lube and powder. Some lubes just smoke more and I stay away from those.

rjrivero
September 27, 2011, 07:42 PM
I have some alox that`s mixed with 45%alox 45% mineral sprits & 10% johnsons paste wax that I lube wadcutters with tumble style & it seems to give lower levels of smoke.
I think you have the Lube Recipe transposed.
45/45/10 tumble lube (http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=67654) should be 45% Alox, 45% Johnson's Paste, 10% Mineral Spirits. Used properly, it's a great tumble lube. But the way you have it written would be REALLY RUNNY......

bluetopper
September 27, 2011, 08:16 PM
Smoke just blows away in the wind.:confused:
The cast lead bullets I shoot perform great and don't lead my barrels at all even full house 44 Magnum loads and 500 S&W Mag gas checks out of my Handi-Rifle. I frankly don't see what the fuss is about.

GLOOB
September 27, 2011, 08:33 PM
My 9mm cast reloads can hardly be differentiated from jacketed, indoors. Revolver reloads, same boat as you. Lots o smoke! No problem outdoors, though.

g29guy
September 28, 2011, 05:32 AM
I think powder has as much to do with it as the bullet being lead or not. I load pretty hot 10mm loads in 155 and 180 grain hard cast bullets. When I shoot 800x I get 1/4 the smoke and soot that I get with Blue Dot.

But the look on the people at the ranges faces when a 3 foot fireball comes out of the barrel of a compact semi auto is worth it.:D

I get at least 100 rounds of blue dot through my barrel before I clean it due to soot.

The leading is due to improper bullet choice not the bullet itself.

CraigC
September 28, 2011, 08:04 AM
Lead is a wonderful bullet and load combination for those who like it, I just happen to one of those who doesn't. To me it's dirty, and doesn't allow me the opportunity to get full house performance without having to be concerned about heavy leading and worse.

I understand that your mind is made up and you won't be swayed by the truth but your concerns are unfounded. Period.


With the cost of jacketed being so reasonable...
What??? As we covered in another thread, cast bullets cost about a third that of jacketed bullets. Unless you do very little shooting, there is nothing "reasonable" about the cost of jacketed bullets.

Rollis R. Karvellis
September 28, 2011, 10:16 PM
The binding could also be lead shavings from the cylinder being out of time with the barrel.

BBDartCA
September 29, 2011, 01:36 AM
Personally I like the cloud of smoke cast bullets leave!

elano
September 29, 2011, 01:57 AM
I've had lead Buildup on my cyl face before. I believe the cause was too hard of an alloy matched with too small diameter.

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