Fixed sights and shooting low...


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10mm Mike
September 25, 2011, 12:49 PM
I recently got a Charter Arms Pitbull (the rimless revolver in .40 S&W) and took it out to the range yesterday. It has fixed front and rear sights.

@10 yards, it was shooting pretty low, still on paper but pretty low. Best guess is 5 or 6 inches low.

I was thinking about breaking out my files to shorten the front sight to remedy this problem but then I got to thinking... this is a permanent modification and I can't add metal back if I take it down too far. Basically, I got alittle nervous.

So, I ask my fellow High Roaders: should I shorten the front sight or leave it the way it is and just use a different sight picture or do something else? I'm competent enough with my files to do this myself so I won't be sending it off to a gunsmith. I just want to make sure I'm taking the right approach to fixing the problem before I do anything.

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56hawk
September 25, 2011, 01:03 PM
What ammo are you using? The point of impact can change quite a bit depending on the ammo. I would suggest trying a few different brands and bullet weights before modifying the sights.

MartinS
September 25, 2011, 01:09 PM
"I recently got a Charter Arms Pitbull..." Shoot more, change the way you hold it. Make sure you are not pushing it down in a pre-flex to recoil. Relax the grip a bit, let it recoil more and see what happens.

BCRider
September 25, 2011, 01:24 PM
Light bullets and fast loads will tend to print lower. Try some heavier bullet options for ammo if you chose the lighter end of the scale.

At least it's hitting low so you CAN trim the front sight. It gives you the option to find a type of ammo you want to use and which you can get easily and trim the sights to work with that ammo.

But as mentioned before you trim any sights get in a bit more time with the gun, try some other acceptable to you ammo choices, shoot it enough to know that you're consistently grouping tightly even if it is hitting low so you know it's not you. Then finally sit down and decide on what you want to shoot from it. THEN carefully trim the front sight to suit your ammo of choice.

10mm Mike
September 25, 2011, 01:56 PM
I was using Remington UMC 165gr FMJ. I also have some 180gr (UMC and RWS) but after shooting this gun with 165's, I'm not so sure I want to shoot anything heavier through it. 165's are unpleasant enough, wouldn't the 180's be worse recoil-wise?

On a side note, when I first got this gun I thought to myself, "I really wish it could chamber 10mm, that would be so awesome", and now after my first range trip I understand why it doesn't! 10mm from a gun this light would be brutal.

I did change my grip a time or 2 because as it recoiled, it rocked down and back in my hand and the cylinder banged into my thumb a few times and let me tell you that got old fast. So I started putting my thumb across my supporting hand instead of the "thumbs forward" way I was initially shooting. So I guess my thumbs were making more of a 'T' rather than both of them being forward.

rcmodel
September 25, 2011, 02:11 PM
A 180 at +/- 1,000 FPS is the industry standard bullet wieght, and that is probably what the fixed sights are regulated for.

Try it before you get out the file.

I think you will find the 180 load producing less free recoil then the faster 165.
10.99 ft/lb in fact, as opposed to 12.07 ft/lb.
And the grips won't spank your hand quite as fast either.

rc

pikid89
September 25, 2011, 02:33 PM
here is a good demonstration of what changing bullet weights in a fixed sight revolver can do for you

http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/gun-product-reviews/2547-review-georgia-arms-38-special-loads.html

BCRider
September 25, 2011, 03:37 PM
.....I did change my grip a time or 2 because as it recoiled, it rocked down and back in my hand and the cylinder banged into my thumb a few times and let me tell you that got old fast. So I started putting my thumb across my supporting hand instead of the "thumbs forward" way I was initially shooting. So I guess my thumbs were making more of a 'T' rather than both of them being forward.


It sounds like some slightly fatter grips which fit your hands better are needed.

I ran into much the same thing with my new Ruger Super Blackhawk shooting .44Mags. With the stock grips I could not get a good hold on the gun's grips due to having large size hands. And as you found smashing the back of my middle finger with the trigger guard got old REALLY fast. I made up some fatter grips now I can shoot full power loads without needing a death grip on the gun or padding for my middle finger. Better grips also spreads out the recoil impact to more of your hand so the recoil won't seem quite as harsh. There's a reason why replacement grips like Hogue, Pachmayr and others are all rather chunky looking. It's to fit the hand better and avoid the gun moving around in your grip.

gamestalker
September 25, 2011, 06:15 PM
You are shooting a firearm made for close encounters. I wouldn't take a file to anything. Shoot it more and use some different variations of loads. At 10 yds. I don't think it is very likely you'll see much difference between loads, other than recoil factors.

dave from mesa
September 25, 2011, 06:50 PM
+1 for rcmodel
Give them a try and see what they feel like. I think it will "feel" softer.

Steve C
September 25, 2011, 11:30 PM
Find out where the gun shoots to at 25 yds as 10 yds is too close to get an good measure of the sight adjustment and no manufacturers regulate their sights for such close range. Shoot from a rested position off a bench to eliminate shooter error as much as possible.

If it shoots low at 10 yds then just raise your front sight in the notch or aim a bit higher.

For a self defense situation its unlikely you'll get much use of the sights at 10 yds other than to put front sight in the center of your opponent and squeeze one off.

MrWesson
September 26, 2011, 12:00 AM
Aim high :neener:

FreddyKruger
September 26, 2011, 12:20 AM
Try different ammo

Try a rest

See where it groups

?????

Profit

beatledog7
September 26, 2011, 12:26 AM
A tiny adjustment in sight picture can fix this. Fixed sights are set up for what's considered normal, but what's normal? Everybody's sight picture concept is a bit different.

olafhardtB
September 26, 2011, 04:56 AM
Try shooting it double action. My revolvers seem to shoot lower in da, yours may shoot higher. I believe this is because da lets you use your index finger in the grip. Sometimes a gun shoots better da than sa.

W.E.G.
September 26, 2011, 08:03 AM
I wouldn't mess with it.

You'll probably soon grow tired of that gun, and you'll want to sell it to somebody else who is just dying to have the Charter Arms Pit Bull experience.

If you've bubba'd the front sight, you'll have a lot more trouble getting rid of it.

10 yards is about 4x the distance that gun is likely to have any practical use anyway.
Now you know it shoots a little low with that ammo when fired using the sights.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
September 26, 2011, 08:23 AM
I have a 45 Auto with non-adjustible Tru-Glo (three-dot, tritium) night-sights. I tried the gun with "bargain" UMC (yellow-box) 230g ball ammo. The gun was shooting way too high or low at about 21 feet. As I recall, it was shooting about 6" (high or low, I don't remember which -- as I failed to save the target).

Fast-forward to last month and I happened to pick up a box of Fiocch 200g HP ammo. I was at the range right after I got the new ammo and was pleasantly-surprised that the gun happened to be "RIGHT-ON" with the Fiocchi at the same distance of about 21 feet! In fact, the new bullets were shooting so perfectly I decided to stop right there, after shooting five rounds or less and save these as defense cartridges!

Remllez
September 26, 2011, 11:48 AM
Agree with all the above about not filing until you have shot a variety of different slug weights. If you can lay hands on bigger hand filling grips give em a try as well. Familiarity with the gun is key here, keep trying different things until you are satisfied with where it shoots for "you."

Benching will give you the best results for POA/POI, only when you are satisfied break out the file. Like others have stated the gun is in all likelihood regulated for industry standard loads and your revolver should hit pretty close with those. I prefer fixed sight guns for self defense but you really need to know where they shoot out to 20 yards or so, and more importantly be confident with the gun/load you are shooting.

10mm Mike
September 27, 2011, 01:20 AM
Thanks for the all the input guys.

I'm going to try to get out to the range again this weekend and try the 180gr and see what happens.

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