.223 -vs 5.56 Firing Pin


PDA






OhioChief
September 26, 2011, 12:21 AM
I never realized before that the firing pin is different between the .223 and the 5.56. Anybody know why this is? What happens if you swap them?

If you enjoyed reading about ".223 -vs 5.56 Firing Pin" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
303tom
September 26, 2011, 12:58 AM
It is because they are slightly different calibers. Also, the 5.56 round for the military generates higher pressure and therefore, the plumbing must be stronger. You can use .223 in a 5.56, but you cannot use a 5.56 in a .223.
Biggest Myth Ever !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sediment
September 26, 2011, 04:37 AM
5.56 NATO is a Military round with a "Military Primer" meaning that it's harder. Firing pin is probably made of a harder or heavier metal.

AFAIK though there shouldn't be a difference in firing pins is you are running a bolt carrier for a gun in .223 Rem or 5.56 NATO.

W.E.G.
September 26, 2011, 06:55 AM
I never realized before that the firing pin is different between the .223 and the 5.56.

WHAT are you talking about?

Who told you this?

68wj
September 26, 2011, 08:36 AM
WHAT are you talking about?

Who told you this?
X2. Never heard that. I use an AR-15 FP in my AR's, not a cartridge specific part.

Bartholomew Roberts
September 26, 2011, 08:58 AM
The only difference I have ever noticed is that some (though by no means all) manufacturers make the firing pin collar on their "AR15" firing pins bigger in order trap the hammer if the disconnector fails.

MtnCreek
September 26, 2011, 09:37 AM
The only difference I have ever noticed is that some (though by no means all) manufacturers make the firing pin collar on their "AR15" firing pins bigger in order trap the hammer if the disconnector fails.

How does this work? I thought the hammer would fall foward of the bolt/carrier when the disconnector failed.
Thanks.

bigedp51
September 26, 2011, 09:52 AM
The .223 and the military 5.56 Nato are the same cartridge, if you look at CIP the European equivalent of the American SAAMI you will see CIP considers these cartridges to be the same. (along with the .308 and 7.62 NATO)

The pressure myth started when the pressure readings were changed from CUP to the transducer PSI method and exacerbated when our military changed to NATO EPVAT testing where the chamber pressure is measured at the neck of the case which reads even higher.

The only difference between the "older" .223 rifles and the 5.56 is the rate of twist and the throat of the chamber of the "newer" M16/A4 rifles. My Stevens 200 has a 1 in 9 twist, the same as the "newer" M16/A4 rifles and my firing pin is no different. Military ammunition stakes or crimps its primers to keep the primer from backing out of the primer pocket at the longer headspace settings of military small arms.

Before these Internet myths started you never heard someone saying the military 30-06 was a different cartridge from the civilian commercial 30-06. I think I'll start a new rumor, my 03 had a gold plated firing pin and was made from Fairy dust.

Carl N. Brown
September 26, 2011, 09:56 AM
Generally, 5.56 barrel chambers will be throated for longer heavier bullets than most .223 commercial ammo.

Generally though you really ought to check with the manufacturer, because some barrels marked .223 are actually chambered to accept 5.56 as well as .223, while most .223 barrels especially older .223 barrels are chambered for the shorter, lighter bullets originally loaded in commercial .223 ammo.

I suspect that the only difference in firing pins is between early ARs that were semi-auto versions of the M16, and current ARs designed as semi-auto from the get-go.

dprice3844444
September 26, 2011, 09:57 AM
what are these guys smoking? and they didn't offer me none?

MtnCreek
September 26, 2011, 12:46 PM
My Stevens 200 has a 1 in 9 twist, the same as the "newer" M16/A4 rifles and my firing pin is no different.
When did they start using 1:9 and what was the stated reason?
Thanks,
MtnCreek

303tom
September 26, 2011, 01:11 PM
I do know that the 7.62x63 run a higher pressure than the .30-06 does !

Jenrick
September 26, 2011, 01:18 PM
The M16 family since the A2 have a 1/7" barrel twist, not a 1/9".

-Jenrick

Bartholomew Roberts
September 26, 2011, 02:02 PM
How does this work? I thought the hammer would fall foward of the bolt/carrier when the disconnector failed.

http://www.bushmaster.com/anatomy_bushmaster.asp

The animation at that link should show how it works; but basically if the disconnector fails the hammer follows the bolt carrier, as the bolt goes back into battery the notched AR15 style hammer slides up the underside of the unshrouded AR15 style carrier and snags the firing pin collar, causing the rifle to stop functioning.

rcmodel
September 26, 2011, 02:07 PM
I never realized before that the firing pin is different between the .223 and the 5.56.As others have already said.
It isn't different.

In any brand of firearm I can think of that is chambered in both calibers, the part# for all the bolt parts, including the firing pin, is exactly the same.

rc

Bartholomew Roberts
September 26, 2011, 04:19 PM
Here is a picture showing the different diameters in firing pin collars between M&A Parts's AR15 firing pin and M16 firing pin:
http://www.mapartsinc.com/productsDetail.asp?id=552

Although I apparently got the details backwards, the M16 firing pin is the one with the larger collar. It is the AR15 firing pin, which has the reduced collar so that the combination of an unshrouded bolt carrier and large collar doesn't cause issues.

Colt was the original manufacturer who is responsible for this difference. This is why Colt has two different firing pins for the AR15: Firing Pin (Auto) SP62294 (http://www.specializedarmament.com/products/FIRING_PIN_AUTO_223_5_56MM-198-4.html) (0.374" diameter) and Firing Pin (Semi) SP63039 (http://www.specializedarmament.com/catalog/Colt_AR_15_Parts-4-0.html) (0.331" diameter).

And again, I think most manufacturers just use the smaller collar firing pin in all of their products these days rather than deal with the two different parts. I'm not even sure what the technical advantage of the larger collar would be in a shrouded bolt carrier.

OhioChief
September 26, 2011, 04:57 PM
Well I heard about it when I was at the gun show and wanted to pick up a few extra firing pins. they asked do I want .223 or 5.56. I said "what's the difference" and they showed me. The head (where the hammer srikes) is about a third the size larger on the 5.56. I went home and compared my own .223 pins with my own 5.56 pins, and sure enough, that's exactly what I had from the manufacture. Just never put them side by side before and noticed the difference.

68wj
September 26, 2011, 09:41 PM
That was an AR-15 versus an M-16 pin. Fortunately, they are interchangeable. Hopefully they had some good beef jerky at that booth too.:p

bigedp51
September 26, 2011, 10:01 PM
MtnCreek

Don't get "twisted" out of shape, my mistake and forgetfulness, my quick reference material was the Hornady manual that was the closest to the computer.

The correct military twist for the M16A4 is 1 in 7. :o

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/7-8-201190356AM.jpg

OhioChief
September 26, 2011, 10:20 PM
Were you there 68? They did have good jerky!!!

awgrizzly
September 27, 2011, 12:03 AM
It would be no surprise that Colt used different dimensions for AR firing pins because they were totally anal about stopping people changing their ARs to full auto. Colt went beyond the requirements of the feds, such as using different pin diameters and blocking the rear of the lower so an auto-seer couldn't be installed. What is said about the firing pin trapping the hammer is true, which is why the bottom front of the bolt is milled out. But the feds do not require this and it is legal to use an M16 bolt in an AR, though I suspect it may not be safe should the disconnect fail or the trigger group be modified.

If you enjoyed reading about ".223 -vs 5.56 Firing Pin" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!